But Gascoigne had a better peak than Effenberg, Lampard, Deco and Seedorf: he's one of the few of the more modern midfielders whose position I wouldn't dispute.
Tiers of Greatness
- Thread starter adexkola
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But Gascoigne had a better peak than Effenberg, Lampard, Deco and Seedorf: he's one of the few of the more modern midfielders whose position I wouldn't dispute.
Ronaldinho and Kaka are too high considering how badly they faded mid-career.
Fat Ronaldo probably should be in the second tier rather than the top tier due to injuries and fitness issues.
Henry is a tier too high also.
Otherwise I would say a decent effort!
Fat Ronaldo probably should be in the second tier rather than the top tier due to injuries and fitness issues.
Henry is a tier too high also.
Otherwise I would say a decent effort!
C.Ronaldo and Best should be top tier.
Decent on average but plenty of glaring errors. Giggs and Scholes too low (or others above them too high - anywhere Xavi is, Scholes should be too. Iniesta likewise.) Rooney should be higher (Eto'o and Shenvchenko, for example, are above him). Gazza should be much higher.
Also the 'great' and 'very good' tiers are a bit pointless, since you could at least double the first and triple the second with players of similar ability.
Also the 'great' and 'very good' tiers are a bit pointless, since you could at least double the first and triple the second with players of similar ability.
I thought the Caf could better this effort, so a few months ago I made a thread, with requests to define the criteria which needed to be met for placing a player in a specific tier.
Perhaps I wasn't clear, as it died a very quick death...
Perhaps I wasn't clear, as it died a very quick death...
It would end the same way. Everyone bickering over the exact placing of Man Utd players.
Xavi and Iniesta are better players than Scholes, imo. Don't know how Xavi gets rated a tier above Iniesta though.
like feck rooney is in sammy's class. not even close.
Nahh should he feck be in the demi god tier, there's only a few in there he could be compared to IMO. He's lucky to be in the great tier if Law, Kopa, Keane and Sammer are below him.
Iniesta above Scholes? Cause he has silks?
Iniesta/Xavi/Scholes is spot on IMO. For me Xavi is the best of the three, though not by much, so it's fair he's in the above tier. Zidane shouldn't be two tiers ahead of someone like Iniesta though, I would move him down one and have Zidane/Xavi one ahead of Iniesta/Scholes.
Xavi/Iniesta/Zidane in tier two with Scholes a tier below, imo. I'd have Iniesta above Xavi but a lot of people do seem to rate Xavi more...
The thing with Scholes is that his ability is not in question, but it's about applying it in games. Xavi has probably done that more. Iniesta probably too.
Messi is a class above C. Ronaldo, but that doesn't mean that Ronaldo shouldn't be top tier. If anything there should be a tier above the "goat" tier, which would have Pele, Maradona and Messi, and that's it. C. Ronaldo would be amongst a handful in the tier below.
The fact that Messi outshines him seems to take the edge off the fact that C. Ronaldo is genuinely one of the best football players to have ever lived. He should be recognised as such.
And why the feck Best isn't in the top tier is laughable.
The fact that Messi outshines him seems to take the edge off the fact that C. Ronaldo is genuinely one of the best football players to have ever lived. He should be recognised as such.
And why the feck Best isn't in the top tier is laughable.
According to most of the footballers on that list, Scholes should be in either of the top two tiers...
my dad would have laughed that Duncan Edwards was nowhere to be seen.
Best has to be in the top tier of course.
Best has to be in the top tier of course.
Yashin not in the "GOAT"...fukking joke. The man was beyond belief.
I think this is a common misconception myself. If C. Ronaldo was playing in the same era as Cruyff and Beckenbauer he'd be outshone, likewise if he was playing at the same time as a lot of those players in the top two.
When did you see him that you thought he was beyond belief? Unless you were watching the Soviet league during that time I find it hard to believe that opinion's based on anything other than hearsay.
I wonder how good Yashin really was myself.
From those that saw him back in the day, if you lived outside Russia you only got a chance to see him in a handful of games. I'm sure a few on here saw him in the flesh in the World Cup in '66 but by then he was 37, he'd had a few injury problems that season at club level and everyone knew that was his swansong tournament. Then you've got the FA Centenary game a couple of years earlier which I'm sure many saw. Other than that you'd have the odd World Cup game from '58 and '62 televised and perhaps a couple of games from the European Championships. He never played in the European Cup.
Basically, even those who lived through his era know his class through stories rather than what they saw. The keeping in his era was just terrible, IMO. For me it's the area of football that's taken the most strides forward since the 60s, by a distance. Benfica's keeper that won consecutive European Cups and Portugal's keeper in their best-ever World Cup were both complete jokes - the commentators genuinely had a chuckle about them both game after game. In comparison to keepers like this Yashin looked like a god - big frame, quick across the ground, great reflexes and distribution that was light-years ahead of his peers. Some keepers couldn't even take goal kicks back then, whereas Yashin excelled while in possession and had a booming kick to match.
All of these things are apparent in his World Cup outings but this reputation of being completely untouchable in the goalkeeping world isn't. There are still plenty of mistakes in there. The keeping for this free kick (1st goal) is terrible - uncharacteristic of him, sure, but far from an anomaly. Compared to Schmeichel, Buffon et al I'm not sure he looks so outstanding. People will say greatness is about how they matched up to their peers rather than how they match up to modern players but I don't agree - in comparison to C. Ronaldo, Pelé still looks exceptional. Yashin would be a top keeper in any era no question, but the idea he's far above anything we've seen since seems a bit off based on what I've seen of him.
That said, I went and had a look at some of the stats and in 9 of the 13 seasons he played over 15 games in, his team had a goals against record of under a goal per game - often being the only team to do so. In the season he won the Ballon d'Or they played 38 games and conceded just 14 goals. That record stands the test of time no matter what era he's from. Then you look at the rest of the Ballon d'Or rankings and he was named the best keeper in Europe 7 times in something like 10 seasons - no keeper since has done so more than 4 times. He was named in the top 5 players in Europe on 4 occasions - no keeper has done so more than twice since. The Ballon d'Or rankings don't negate the point about him simply being far above his peers rather than being outstanding across the eras, but it does explain why his legacy has stood up to decades of scrutiny. So really I don't know what to think. I just think people shouldn't so readily accept the idea he's the undisputed greatest. Unquestionably one of the most influential keepers in history and the fact his sweeper-keeper style took decades to become commonplace is evidence of his everlasting greatness but for me, Buffon's #1.
Somewhere in heaven Duncan Edwards sighs, shakes his head and laces up his boots.
Not sure why so many goalkeepers make the list. At the end of the day if they were decent footballers, they wouldn't be playing in goal...
Ayee can see where you are coming from.
Thing is though I think Zidane was better than Iniesta so should be in an above tier, whereas Xavi is about the best ever of his type. As a deep playmaker controlling the game nobody comes close, whereas you can't say the same for Iniesta IMO. The likes of Scholes are in that level below Xavi so like yourself I would have him in the tier below.
Why is Shevchenko so high in people's list? I even rate Nistelrooy as the better striker. And Henry on the God tier is a joke; when you see the like of Eto'o, Breitner, and Socrates are two tiers below him.
Law below Shearer, Weah and Eto'o. Yeah...
Either Pele, Maradona, and Messi should have their own tier or Cristiano Ronaldo should be a part of the current GOAT lineup. In either case, before its all said and done, he and Messi will be at the very top.
Thats the problem with any list like this, there is such a wide range of ages on here, you will get hundreds of different lists.
I cant agree with that, no matter how good your team is, if you don't have a decent keeper you will get beat.
Pele, Maradona and Messi as GOAT. The next teir should be Puskas, Di Stefano, Zidane et al.
Then Cristiano Ronaldo and others. As for Rooney, he should be a tier lower and I think he is only there due to his longevity. He has done very little in the European Championships and World Cups to merit his place.
That's as much as to do with playing in international teams that have been overrated and also underachieved.Not sure it's a criteria that should disqualify players.
Best was never going to be able to perform on the international stage yet he does compare favourably with Pele,Maradona and Messi IMO
Nah. Messi and C Ronaldo aren't really that far apart in terms of their place in the pantheon of greatness. I can see Ronaldo being a level below at this point, but when its all finished they will probably both be at the top because of their torrid goal scoring rates in La Liga. I don't think the WC or CL titles should be the primary factor. Their contribution to club football, which lets face it, is a bulk of what comprises football, should weigh more heavily. Giggs being so far down is also a bit silly.
If this is a list made by an Anglo-Saxon, then he has messed it up by including Rooney and leaving out the late, great Dixie Dean. If you are going by goals scored then he has more of a place in one of those tiers.
I will give you that one, but to have Rooney in that list doesn't do the list any favours since we might as well have Hughes or even Ian Rush up there.
Always thought the idea of players having to win a WC to be considered greats was a bit silly. Giggs, Best, C. Ronaldo being made to look lacking when the likes of Kleberson, Leboeuf, and Fabio Grosso get remembered for being WC winners.
Denis Law's criminally underrated.
I doubt people would care if anyone from the pre 1950s era was omitted. Its not like there an abundance of footage floating about for people to assess. Ronaldo and Messi are likely going to wind up at the top because they've been dominant in one of Europe's best leagues for years now and aren't likely to stop any time soon. Their numbers generally clown over the competition.
They do at the moment, but are long way behind Gerd Muller, Pele and Romario who played post-1950s era. I mean, Muller, 655 goals in 709 club apps and 68 goals in 65 international games. That will take some beating.
And Müller was only the second best player in that team, a defender outshone him easily. C. Ronaldo is far away from players like Beckenbauer, Cruyff or di Stefano. If we make an extra tier for Messi, Maradona and Pele, C. Ronaldo has to go at best in the third tier, the gap between him and for example Cruyff is way bigger than the gap between Cruyff and Maradona/Pele.
I'm a little surprised Eusebio is rated in that GOAT tier. Is he still rated clearly above C. Ronaldo in Portugal?
Indeed, but Raoul was implying statistics and until you can find a defender who has scored more than Muller, then I will insist that Messi is currently the only one who could catch Muller phenomenal figures.
I'm sure some people said the same about Pelé and Eusébio at the time because they were putting up similar numbers, but the gulf in class between the two is obvious. Same with Maradona and Platini. There was a point where Ronaldo was ahead of Messi much like Platini was ahead of Maradona but since the Argentine took his place at the top there's been no-one getting near him.
Why should Ronaldo be at the very top but Eusébio not? What has he contributed to club football that Eusébio hasn't?
Insane scoring record at club level - 473 in 440 games
Numerous titles - 11 league titles, 5 Cups and 1 European Cup in 15 years
Ballon d'Or - 1965 + came 2nd twice
Iconic performances - two goals in a European Cup final v Di Stéfano's Madrid in his first full season, hat-trick v Pelé's Santos off the bench, four goals without reply in the World Cup quarter-final
You could say that Eusébio played in the Portuguese league which was easier to score in but then he's still one goal ahead of Ronaldo in the European Cup top scorers list, and he achieved that total in 64 games compared to the 92 games it's taken Ronaldo.
Ronaldo is amazing, there's no question of that, but in overstating just how good he is you're disregarding so many other sensational footballers.