Maybe we won't play with one. There is no Carrick replacement on that list
Tiemoue Bakayoko
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Maybe we won't play with one. There is no Carrick replacement on that list
The players you listed, all of them were in the role Ander occupies bar Matuidi, and when Pogba plays with Matuidi he's a shadow of what he can be, having to play as the #6 himself while Matuidi runs all over the place hunting the ball.
It's not a luxury to play with a player like Pirlo, Marchisio or Carrick, it's a systemic choice that gets the best from a unique talent like Pogba, disrupting that woiuld be stupid, Bakayoko is a ball hunter, a bigger but less refined version of Ander, not a midfield brain, which is what our midfield needs to knit the pieces together. You make it sound like Carrick is a Unicorn or something, it's not impossible to find a good metronome to sit at the base.
I wouldn't mind this purchase, Mourinho knows what he is doing a lot more than any of us do. BUT I'd much rather we let TFM have this battering ram squad role until he becomes a hopefully permanent fixture in the side.
This is what I'd be hoping as well, I've watched a fair but of Monaco this season and the French lads echo the thougfht that he's not a holding player, he rushes about way too much, Fabinho is the holder in that team. If we buy him I'd be concerned about Fosu-Mensah.
I'm not sure you would have a very functional midfield if it was comprised of three energetic #8's. It would lack structure and discipline. It would also be a departure for Mourinho, who has usually had a calm distributor in the midfields he's built, whether in a 4-2-3-1, 4-3-1-2 or 4-3-3 system (Motta, Alonso, Fabregas etc He also tasked Ander with the role on occasion, before Carrick came back into the fold, so he's clearly aware of its importance).
I'm just trying to see if Bakayoko cannot do that job, maybe Ander will progress there... hmm. Maybe there is hope for Goss
The only person over-egging the Carrick role is you. I'm saying he does a good job, but we don't need a direct replacement that sits at the base and dictates play. Good football teams are built in an all manner of different ways, and Mourinho's United will be his own interpretation.
Pogba is more than good enough to play in midfield with Herrera plus another and adapt as necessary. I don't really want him collecting the ball in our own half either, but it doesn't have to be that way, with or without Carrick in the side.
You seem to have it in your head that every good football team needs a "brain" sat at the base of a midfield three. I'm saying it doesn't.
I read 'Babayaro' and saw 'Transfer forum' and thought wtf.
So is this guy a cross between Fellaini and Schneiderlin? Doesn't sound very good.
Yes I suppose it is possible that if Mourinho doesn't like the options currently on the market, he might permanently convert Ander to the holding role (thereby replacing Carrick) and bring in a new box-box player (like Bakayoko). I'm not sure Herrera is quite there in terms of tempo-dictating metronomic passing from deep, though. I guess we wait and see...
All of the best ones around do, just go through the last few teams to win the CL. I'm not over egging the Carrick role, I'm saying some athletic destroyer would offer us nothing and be of little use in maximising the potential of Pogba, that is my main point, any version of a midfield that lacks a proper conductor sees Pogba inevitably end up in our half to get on the ball. All of Jose's teams have had that player from Makelele to Motta to Alonso to Fabregas, one CM to be the head piece of the midfield.
But what role would you give to Bakayoko, keeping in mind that he isn't great at covering because he has lapses of concentration and is sometimes just lazy?
Thinking about it, I have no idea how Monaco's midfield work, I mean Fabinho is the better passer of the two.
Do they? I think you're essentially agreeing with me. Real's Casemiro doesn't play like Carrick. Atletico's Gabi isn't all that expansive. Neither was Makelele. Motta isn't all that similar to Carrick either. They're all predominantly ball winners that sit at the base and give the ball to other players. We can have a head piece in midfield similar to that, perhaps this lad from Monaco. Or perhaps not.
I have no idea, I've never seen him play. The crux of my point is that we don't need some kind of expansive deep-lying midfielder that dictates play to be a successful football team. If we can't find one, or don't even want one, we can piece together a perfectly good midfield some other way.
I'd say Kante and Matic are a fair bit better on the ball than Bakayoko. I don't know whether he'd be coming here as a squad player or w starter but if he's to start gen Mourinho will be looking to tweak our playing style slightly.
So is this guy a cross between Fellaini and Schneiderlin? Doesn't sound very good.
He's more mobile. Think Ramires/Kante/M.Dembele. Lots of dribbling, surging runs from midfield, lots of tackling (and a fair bit of fouling).
Amazing name, lets sign him.
But we need one if we want to exploit Herrera's and Pogba's abilities fully.
Casemiro doesn't need to be the head piece when Modric and Kroos are his dictators, Atletico haven't won the CL so I am not sure what Gabi has to do with anything, especially given they play with the most pragmatic, risk adverse midfield set up there is at a top team, nothing like what we are developing here. Makelele and Motta were/are both very efficient passers, and in Motta's case he's often higher up than Verratti who acts as the playmaker. Basically bar Atleti all of the teams have a playmaker, Pogba and Ander are not that, so basically we'd have an engine without a brain if we stuck Bakayoko in with our current two starters. If we got a destroyer at the base then we'd need a #8 playmaker in place of Ander otherwise there'd be no balance, however this lad is neither, he's Ander in a bigger, more athletic body.
Actually looking at the video his height, strength and runs forward are similar to Pogba. Together they would bully other midfields.
This sums it up in one line, it's about the right balance.
Physically they'd be a nightmare to come up against, but the midfield zone would be too ill-disciplined without a calm passer holding behind them.
Well they got to the final a couple of times, so that's good enough for me. Motta and Makelele are/were good passers, but they don't pass it like Carrick, or Pirlo, or Alonso. I don't think they needed to, either. Herrera and Pogba are capable of taking control of football matches, particularly the former with a bit more development in his role. Alonso in particular was never renowned for dictating play until he got a little older.
Herrera, Pogba and another are more than capable of working in a good, well drilled football team. I think the rest of what you're saying borders on Footy Man' fluff, to be frank. We need a playmaking #8 to do this.. this kind of #6 to do that". It's over complicating it. Herrera and Pogba are cracking players that are working well in their roles right now. Pop somebody else in place of Carrick that can give them a bit of freedom and we're golden. But this player doesn't need to be a carbon copy of what we have, which is the point I keep having to reinforce.
This kid might not be the answer, but I'm willing to wait and see what Mourinho does to the midfield. Something tells me he won't be going out of his way bring in Carrick mk II.
Yeah they got to the final playing the polar opposite of the type of football we are trying to play, the idea that you can just pop some random DM into our midfield and it would be fine or that Herrera can turn into what Alonso is sounds way more footy manager than what I have been saying. The midfiled is made up of 3 players that all compliment each others strengths, you can't just shove anyone in there and hey presto! it'll work. It's about balance, that's real life foobtall not a videogame, there's a reason that Gerrard and Lampard were shit together, they had the same strengths and didn't facilitate each others games. The need for a metronome is just common sense, he may not be as expansive as Carrick, he just needs to be intelligent, accurate and consistent with his forward passing. We paid a world record for Pogba, I don't understand the idea of not trying to build the team to get the most out of that investment.
Have we been linked? Not sure I read any links other than the ducker article. Summer or winter?
We don't necessarily need a metronome, we could bring a player like Makélélé and let Herrera, Pogba do whatever they want without worrying about defense but at Monaco that player is Fabinho not Bakayoko.
Now, none of us have Mourinho's abilities, he probably has a solid plan.
Is this boy any good?
Is he the right type of player to be a Carrick replacement? We don't need a destroyer, we need a composed controller of games with great passing.
Makelele was fairly consistent with his passing though, he kept it more simple than Carrick but he wasn't a slug either. The thing with Pogba is you want to keep him in his zone, you don't want him having to fetch the ball all of the time, and that requires a CM that can constantly feed him the ball accurately.
Well Fabinho is consistent with his passing Bakayoko too, the problem for Bakayoko is that he is defensively inconsistent.
Which is what I think could happen if Mourinho finds the right player.
The alternative is Bakayoko playing in the role Herrera is currently i.e box to box and Herrera dropping as the deep lying midfielder.
Fabinho is cosistent but not very good at playing through the lines, Makelele was much better at that aspect, at least from my memory of him at Chelsea.
If that's what we are going for there'd be a lot better options than Bakayoko.
He is good at it but doesn't do it enough.
Except he sounds much like those two or/and Fellaini. Weren't we suppose to provide a backup for carrick?
He's probably the worst player in Monaco's starting XI but he's managed to squeeze Moutinho onto the bench.
I think Jardim prefers his extra defensive ability ahead of Moutinho's passing ability so that his front four can concentrate more on attacking, which is why they've been scoring so much this season.
I think Jardim prefers his extra defensive ability ahead of Moutinho's passing ability so that his front four can concentrate more on attacking, which is why they've been scoring so much this season.
Has stepped up big time since my last post in this thread in the summer. Not yet top class but enough to make me a fan of bringing him here and stop with Fellaini sub.
Maintain that he is similar to Fellaini in Makelele role, but is more natural to the role and still have room to grow. Fellaini's attribute ain't quite bad in this role in the first few game. It's only his inexperience in the role, slow and limited in passing that prevents this to work. Bakayoko can nearly match the Fellaini of early season while already at good level with better attribute: passing, faster and better at attacking the space on midfield with his pace, knowing the role,... and still have lot of room to grow.
I know people would say Fabinho plays a more anchor role in the Monaco team, I agree. Just sharing what I see in Monaco game. Bakayoko in defensive phase form a 2 pivot DM with Bakayoko and him being a more ball winning, presser of the 2. Mourinho likes his #6 to press and kill the space. For all the Carrick's hype, Carrick is offsetting his deficiency in pressing and ball winning (different than anticipating, interception) with his strong attributes. Carrick is still far from an ideal as Mourinho's #6 which even the best of passer of them is quite dirty and capable of pressing game. We likely wouldn't go down the route of like for like replacement for Carrick.
Maintain that he is similar to Fellaini in Makelele role, but is more natural to the role and still have room to grow. Fellaini's attribute ain't quite bad in this role in the first few game. It's only his inexperience in the role, slow and limited in passing that prevents this to work. Bakayoko can nearly match the Fellaini of early season while already at good level with better attribute: passing, faster and better at attacking the space on midfield with his pace, knowing the role,... and still have lot of room to grow.
I know people would say Fabinho plays a more anchor role in the Monaco team, I agree. Just sharing what I see in Monaco game. Bakayoko in defensive phase form a 2 pivot DM with Bakayoko and him being a more ball winning, presser of the 2. Mourinho likes his #6 to press and kill the space. For all the Carrick's hype, Carrick is offsetting his deficiency in pressing and ball winning (different than anticipating, interception) with his strong attributes. Carrick is still far from an ideal as Mourinho's #6 which even the best of passer of them is quite dirty and capable of pressing game. We likely wouldn't go down the route of like for like replacement for Carrick.
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Bakayoko's were the late 90's Sissoko's.
I remember Ibrahim Bakayoko from the old Championship Manager game, unstoppable
On that basis, buy.
On that basis, buy.
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