Thomas Vermaelen

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"So, Louis van Gaal, you've just signed Mats Hummels. How do you see your defence shaping up next season?"

"Louis van Gaal will play Hummels and Evans together, and it will be SexyVoetbal. Yes?"

"Ok Louis, and what about Smalling and Jones, they'll have a fight on their hands getting games."

"Louis van Gaal will play Smalling when Evans gets injured, Jones, Louis van Gaal will sell, yes?"

"Are you saying Jones wants to leave, Louis?"

"No, when did I say that? Jones is happy to stay and play SexyVoetbal with Louis van Gaal, but I sell him and buy Clint Hill to replace him."

"Why ever would you do that, Louis?!?"

"For balance. Ideally in SexyVoetbal you have two good players in defence, one not so good and then one even less good. In Louis van Gaal team, Jones is too good to be that even less good player, so I sell him and sign Clint Hill. Easy peasy lemon squeezy".

"Thanks for your time, Louis. It's always insightful"

"SexyVoetbal! Louis van Gaal! Yes?"

"Indeed, Louis. Indeed".
 
Lane said:
You need to calm down, that was not answer to your post.
And i will answer yours as soon as you will name me top teams that use 4 CBs and the reasons why other top teams(Munich, Real, Dortmund and so on) only use three.
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I quoted the wrong post. I immediately edited it to quote the right one.
 
The Neviller said:
We sold Pique because his hometown club came in for him and he wanted to go home. We wanted go keep him, Ferguson has said on numerous occasions that he didn't want to sell him but we couldn't stand in his way when he wanted to go home. We didn't sign a better centre back then sell him and sign a worse one to replace him, for balance. That's what you're suggesting, and nobody has ever done that.
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No we sold Pique because he only managed a 12 appearances for us by the time he was 21.

And as i showed in my post above, no top club has 4 equally skilled CBs, it's just stupid.
 
Lane said:
No we sold Pique because he only managed a 12 appearances for us by the time he was 21.

And as i showed in my post above, no top club has 4 equally skilled CBs, it's just stupid.
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Go read my post again, I added something in. It's stupid to suggest clubs actively seek worse players than they have, or sell better llayers to buy worse ones for balance.

We sold Pique because he wanted to go home.

I always thought he would do well. We were disappointed to lose him but we understood at the time that his family desire was to go back to Barcelona.
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- Alex Ferguson, May 2009.
 
Much better balance to have a top centreback (ideally Hummels), give Jones and Evans chances to shine playing alongside him, and keep Smalling as back up depending on injuries, and eventually sell him with Keane taking his place.

Compare that scenario with signing Vermaelen and having to find a combination of Jones, Smalling, Evans and Vermaelen that can stay fit and defend to a good enough standard. That's 6 possible combinations to rotate. And we'd be lucky to finish 6th after a season of that.
 
The Neviller said:
Go read my post again, I added something in. It's stupid to suggest clubs actively seek worse players than they have, or sell better llayers to buy worse ones for balance.
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That is your stupid suggestion. I mean you keep insinuating that is what i meant, but that's only because you lack any real argument. So you made up silly suggestions. Cause that all you can do really.
My point is and always was that you never have 4 good CBs in one team. And how you get there is not important, all this selling, buying that just your interpretation that is wide of the mark, because you simply fail to understand that in defense consistency is the key so you don't need a lot of CBs fighting for a chance, you need two you can trust, one good sub and one deep cover in case of injuries.

Chelsea doe not have 4 Cbs, as Ivanovic their first choice RB. If Jones would have been our first choice RB i would not count him as a CB as well. Liverpool had so many, because they were playing with three back for a while. Arsenal only had three CBs in their team: Vermaelen, Mertesacker, Koscielny. So why on earth would you write they have four? Very strange that. Seems you don't quite understand what you are writing.
City does have four CBs but that is simply down to manager change. And the fact they can easily spend as much money as they want. Mancini wanted Nastasic, Pellegrini did not like him. Lescott is already leaving, Nastasic will leave either this season or next if he fail to convince the manager.
 
hobbers said:
Much better balance to have a top centreback (ideally Hummels), give Jones and Evans chances to shine playing alongside him, and keep Smalling as back up depending on injuries, and eventually sell him with Keane taking his place.

Compare that scenario with signing Vermaelen and having to find a combination of Jones, Smalling, Evans and Vermaelen that can stay fit and defend to a good enough standard. That's 6 possible combinations to rotate. And we'd be lucky to finish 6th after a season of that.
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Smalling price would be deflated by that, and i don;t think he will be happy as a 4-th choice. His contract is up in 2016, that means in 2015 he will have only a year left. So United need to decide whether they want him here.
If United does not believe he can be a main player here, it's better to sell him this year, because next year without new contract he will cost close to 3-4 mil as i would be his last year.
 
Lane said:
Everyone did that. We did it with Pique for example. He was surplus to requirements so we sold him. Because we had Rio-Vidic as a main paring. The simple truth you are so blindly cant see is that every top team has a solid two CBs, one just as good or a bit worse for rotation. And one for deep cover. Or two main CBs and two cover players.
Real is built that way: Pepe-Ramos - main, Varane - 3-d choice. Nacho is a deep cover.
Munich: Dante-Boateng. Martinez for rotation and Buyten as a cover.
Roma: Castan-Benatia, Burdisso and Toloi are cover, played less than 10 games between them.
Dortmund: Sokratis-Hummels-Subotic are main three due to injuries and Friedrich is a cover.
Chelsea: Terry-Cahil, Luiz for rotation. Ivanovic played only four games in a CB role.
Atletico: Godin-Miranda, Alderweireld is a cover.
Barcelona: Pique-Mascherano, Puyol was not fit, so Bartra was a cover.

That's how a team is built. Three skilled CBs is more than enough, some teams even do well with two. When you have four CBs of the same level and you keep rotating them, it never works in your favor. And defense needs stability.
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Bayern also has Badstuber who was injured last season. Teams generally don't have 4 because a) it is difficult to 'buy' 4 good ones b) They generally have CDMs who can be put their in worse scenario with other 3 midfielders in front of him. Along with a CB of course.

We are in a situation where we have 3 and all are good in some way and nobody is asking to leave. Why the feck we need to sell Jones if buy Hummels? What balance is it achieving? If we can't buy a top one and have to settle for lesser one, fair enough but that is not a point we are discussing here.
 
Also City having 4 has nothing to do with manager change. Lescott is leaving but they are in market for other and a good one...tht Roma guy. Are they going to sell any of the other 3? I say they will even buy another one and relegate Demichillies to 5th if possible.
 
Vermaelen is poor. He would be dropped for our better defenders - only Jones is arguably worse at defending - fairly soon into the new season. I don't see this speculation going anywhere, thankfully.
 
Assuming van gaal wants to play a flexible formation, for example 4 at the back changing to 3, with the left sided player being able to move to left back, then Vermaelan might work.
 
legball said:
Typical United signing, premier league based, not pursued by other clubs, I won't be surprised if we sign him but we should be aiming higher.
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It will be announced last minute, last day of transfer window and we will be relieved we have signed someone, anyone. Just kidding.
 
Would he be *that* bad as an experienced option? We need a fourth centre half, someone with experience and leadership qualities, but we also want our younger CBs to be allowed to develop. Also, people are forgetting that TV was pretty good when he first came to England.
 
This is not the first time we're linked with him

He is not a great stopper, but he is excellent on the ball, better than what we have, he could play as DM as well

A typical LVG defender

If we'll play with a 5-3-2 he could be a value added in terms of possesing and launch

He would be a very good signing if available under 10 million
 
The Man Himself said:
Bayern also has Badstuber who was injured last season.
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Badstuber was injured for the last 3 years or so, hardly a player really.
The Man Himself said:
Teams generally don't have 4 because a) it is difficult to 'buy' 4 good ones
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Exactly! And why is that?
Neviller seems to not get it at all, being caught up in all his pointless "you must buy as many good CB as you physically can". But all top teams they just have a solid pairing because it's important to have two first choice CBs, not four fighting it out.
And we also have CDM that could cover in a CB role and he did okay in CL and in PL. That is an emergency option of course.
The Man Himself said:
We are in a situation where we have 3 and all are good in some way and nobody is asking to leave. Why the feck we need to sell Jones if buy Hummels? What balance is it achieving? If we can't buy a top one and have to settle for lesser one, fair enough but that is not a point we are discussing here.
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Because you keep thinking about "now" and in a sort of daft in-draft out way. It's not how football work. I am talking about team in general. Surely we can buy Hummels, keep Jones, Smalling and play Hummels-Evans with Smalling as a cover. How many games would Jones get exactly then? What do you think he will do? At the very least he will leave in next summer. Maybe even with Smalling if he will feel unappreciated as well. At the very worst we will have a scandal nd a lot tension in the squad during a season with Jones wanting out as soon as January.

I'll repeat it once more for you.
1)Every top team needs a solid central pairing. End of story. You can'r rotate CBs like Fegie did last year and Moyes did this term, it leaves team vulnerable and at the back.
2)A team can't have 4 skilled CBs and keep them happy over the long time. 4-th choice would not get enough playing time. And 3-rd choice may be peripheral as well.

So what do we do with our defense? What do you suggest exactly? Do we spend big money on Hummels (lets suppose a deal can be done)? If we do who exactly will be his partner? Should LVG rotate 2 CBs or choose one, solid pairing? Who would be 3-rd choice? Who would be 4-th choice? How many games 3-rd and 4-th choice will actually play? Would it be enough to keep them happy? Should United persist with Fergie/Moyes strategy to deploy Jones and smalling at Rb and sometimes CM to give them more playing time? Or United should just get a proper RB cover? And so on.

Without all these nonsensical and ABC stuff. I would want LVG to sort out permanent pairing in the Center, whether it's Hummels-Evans or Keane-Jones i honestly don't care, i mean it's not like i can influence Van Gaal. The main thing for me is to end this ridiculous practice of giving Jones and Smalling run in the team in their secondary positions just to keep them and rotating CB pair every second game. I think Smalling, Evans, Jones are either good enough to play at CB their natural position or not.
 
Spoke to a few Arsenal fans, None of them want to see Vermaelen leave, especially to us.. From what I've seen him play and what they told me, he's a good CB, just bad luck with injuries and once Koscielny and Mertersacker go settled in, he didntt really get a look in again.. Injuries didnt help either as he never got a consistent run of games too.

He's still a good CB and not even remotely as bad as many are making him out to be here.. Personally I think it would be a very smart buy IF we are really getting him.. I'm still not convinced Wenger will sell him to us
 
Sid234 said:
Spoke to a few Arsenal fans, None of them want to see Vermaelen leave, especially to us.. From what I've seen him play and what they told me, he's a good CB, just bad luck with injuries and once Koscielny and Mertersacker go settled in, he didntt really get a look in again.. Injuries didnt help either as he never got a consistent run of games too.

He's still a good CB and not even remotely as bad as many are making him out to be here.. Personally I think it would be a very smart buy IF we are really getting him.. I'm still not convinced Wenger will sell him to us
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His injuries are a major worry. We already seem to have 3 young CBs who are very injury prone. We need an experienced head who will spend more time on the field than the treatment table.
 
NK86 said:
His injuries are a major worry. We already seem to have 3 young CBs who are very injury prone. We need an experienced head who will spend more time on the field than the treatment table.
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He's not as injury prone as you make him out to be.. Last season, he was injured around July-August and Jan-Feb, he never really got a consistent run of games because Wenger preferred Koscielny and Merterscker, and being able to maintain top form when being played once in a while is not really an easy task for any player. His biggest problem was that he missed pre-season for them last year, hard to get up to speed when you don't play many games and also don't really have a proper pre-season work-out behind you either

His 1st season at Arsenal was more than just a fluke, he's had injuries at the wrong time and never was able to win back his place in the 1st team because of it.. It's not a case of him spending more time on the treatment table than on the pitch..
 
Squads don't tend to have four top class CBs because a) a top class CB won't be happy to sit on the bench and will want to leave and b) most teams don't have the finances to be able to pay for four top class CBs when they have to have brilliant players in other positions too. That's reality.

A manager isn't going to set out to deliberately sign an inferior player if he can help it though. If he can afford four top CBs he'll go for it, why wouldn't he? Will it be a problem giving them all game time? Yes, but that's a happy problem to have. If one of them becomes unhappy and wants to leave then so be it but until then he has four top class CBs, which is always a good thing.

Manager will often make do with an inferior player for a squad role out of necessity but in an ideal world they'd have top class backup in all positions.
 
Vermaelen was really good in FIFA 13 and relatively cheap too on FUT. The deal is apparently agreed with him personally but now we have to agree a fee with Arsenal.
 
If he comes it will be as a first teamer, not a squad player. Except he isn't really good enough to be a first teamer. Bit strange.

I mean he is a left footed CB, he has plenty of experience, he's good on the ball and if he recaptured the form of his first season at Arsenal he'd be a good buy but is that likely to happen? Don't think so and as is he isn't good enough to get into Arsenal's team.

I know Hummels was never really likely to happen but this is a big step down, isn't it? At least he'll be cheap I guess...
 
Please not Vermaelen I'd rather sign no one in that position then an above average at best CB who'd be earning a ridiculous 100k a week.

Come on Van Gaal there's better left footed cb's around.
 
Hate the signing, but hey ho. If he comes, all the best. I'm excited for next season either way.
 
This is a typical "we went for the big boys but failed" signing from Woodward...
Sigh I expect more like this.
 
I mean at least he is LVG's type of CB I guess. Signing the Arsenal captain used to guarantee a better quality of player than this though... :(
 
If this is the bracket we're shopping from, people, including myself, have to lower their expectations hugely. What a shit signing.
 
SolidState said:
This is a typical "we went for the big boys but failed" signing from Woodward...
Sigh I expect more like this.
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Woodward does not have the football knowledge to just decide to go out and sign Thomas Vermaelen. This has LvG's fingerprints all over it. If he has a use for him so be it.
 
Jev said:
If this is the bracket we're shopping from, people, including myself, have to lower their expectations hugely. What a shit signing.
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It's a poor signing imo, but it certainly isn't one that means you have to completely adjust your expectations of this summer.
 
Surprised to see the amount of negative reaction in here. Wasn't this the kind of CB signing many people wanted? An experienced center back with good leadership qualities being brought for a low fee and increases the numbers at the back.
 
DWelbz19 said:
:(
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I dont get this sad face. He was in the pfa team of the year in 2012/13. Schooled in the dutch way, product of ajax academy. Left footed , brings the ball out of defense, plays the lvg way. Can play left back. When played behined a defensive midfielder he excels. I am excited finally a reputable source is reporting a deal. He scores goals and is a tough tackler. Will be a good signing.
 
He can't defend, and he's injury prone.
 
What an absolutely bizarre signing. I know that we've lost two CB's and we are a bit thin on the ground in that department, but what we need is a world class CB to partner one of Evans, Smalling or Jones. Vermalen certainly isn't that, and if we go into the season with those four as our CB's then we look very average there, IMO.
 
mata10 said:
I dont get this sad face. He was in the pfa team of the year in 2012/13. Schooled in the dutch way, product of ajax academy. Left footed , brings the ball out of defense, plays the lvg way. Can play left back. When played behined a defensive midfielder he excels. I am excited finally a reputable source is reporting a deal. He scores goals and is a tough tackler. Will be a good signing.
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You make him sound amazing when he in reality, he's injury prone and just about above average.
 
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