He is no longer a favorite because he is very injury prone and finally Arsenal have a settled and good defensive partnership.
Thomas Vermaelen
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He is no longer a favorite because he is very injury prone and finally Arsenal have a settled and good defensive partnership.
If he can stay fit he'd be a good signing, he's quite versatile as well which is something van Gaal will obviously appreciate.
Well that's more of a worry than it just being a dip in form.
Please excuse my ignorance but were they both at Ajax together? Surely van Gaal had moved on by the time Vermaelen had made the breakthrough?
He was 'Technical Director' there for a year in 2004, when Vermaelan was youngster. I think he made his first team debut that season.
If Van Gaal is thinking of a 3-5-2 then Vermaelen makes a lot of sense. He's really suited to that role, either as a left sided centre back or as a ball player bringing it out from the back.
I thought Vermaelen stated in interviews a couple of times that he really is not a left back. Being asked about playing left back for Belgium, I think his reply was that he really felt uncomfortable playing there and thinks he is pretty bad at it.
Vermaelen in midfield would be a joke, so not sure why everyone is saying he is so versatile?
But there is no reason at all to assume LVG is thinking of a 3-5-2. If all our midfielders or strikers are injured and we're playing City away for the title, perhaps he'd consider it. But otherwise, I'd say no chance.
Vermaelen in midfield would be a joke, so not sure why everyone is saying he is so versatile?
But there is no reason at all to assume LVG is thinking of a 3-5-2. If all our midfielders or strikers are injured and we're playing City away for the title, perhaps he'd consider it. But otherwise, I'd say no chance.
It's highly unlikely he's thinking of 3-5-2 though, and why would he be? Cause he used it a few successful times with Holland at the WC? It's not like that's his tactic and he lives or dies by it.
We're probably bringing Vermaelen in to add a bit of experience to our backline, which LvG possibly thinks is talented enough to become great in the future without having to spend mass amounts of money on, and feels a signing like this is more than enough.
Not sure what the strange hyperbole is for, I know that he does not live or die by a 3-5-2. There are lots of reasons why he might opt for that formation though - they have been discussed in detail in other threads if you want to have a read around.
I'm not sure it's even particularly complicated, our wingers are extremely poor right now and all our best attackers play centrally. A 3-5-2 allows Van Gaal to play Mata/Rooney/Van Persie in their best roles, with Rafael and Shaw perfectly suited to a wingback role which provides width.
And Vermaelen does suit a back three, he's comfortable in possession and more of ballplayer than a pure defender. He had a fantastic season when he first came to Arsenal, pre-injury he would bring the ball out of the back and drive through midfield, scoring a couple himself IIRC. He's a natural fit for that system.
It's hardly entirely down to wingers though. It's not like you have to play with out and out wingers to not play a 3 man backline, or anything.
Anyway, not really a discussion for here, I just don't see it happening, not on a regular basis anyway. Maybe you're right and he will, but if that's the case I'd expect the arrival of more than one 29 year old crocked CB because our center back options aren't great when you try to pick 2, let alone 3.
There really isn't. People have just run away with the fact he had to revert to a formation he was forced to use for instant success in a limited pool of average players. His philosophy is always attacking. He has better and larger personnel here, not to mention he has the option to purchase players to fit his philosophy. If the 3-5-2 is an option, it's probably a Plan C or D.
The best thing about signing Vermaelen, IMO, is that it suggests the club are likely going to put their faith in Evans, Jones and Smalling at CB next season - rather than signing some new first choice CB and continuing to shove Jones and Smalling out of position. The 3 of them are all ready for first team football at CB.
It's not an exciting signing at all but it's a practical signing.
It's not an exciting signing at all but it's a practical signing.
That is not true at all actually, lots of people were suggesting a 3-5-2 before Van Gaal became our manager. And certainly not because they watched a few Holland games in the World Cup. I posted this in November of last season for example, when we were struggling to fit Kagawa/Rooney/Van Persie in the same team.
The 3-5-2 - looks shite, but I think it would be the best bet to try and get them all in their best positions.
The reason I prefer this to the diamond is that the extra CB really allows the wingbacks to bomb forward i.e. the way Lichtsteiner/Asamoah did for Juventus, they can do this in a diamond as well but 1) not to the same extent and 2) you need a rock solid midfield to compensate, which we don't have. Linked to that is another issue with the diamond, which is that I don't think we have the side midfielders to make the system work particularly well, none of our CM's are a natural fit for that role bar possibly Jones.
I'm not sure what you mean here. If you're saying it's too defensive a system so we would only play it away at City then I disagree. All systems can be defensive or offensive, the name of the formation is just some numbers. You can play a 3-5-2 in an attacking and entertaining way, just as easily as you can play a 4-4-2 defensively. Did you watch Chile in the World Cup? They were the opposite of a defensive side and they played this system.
Great teams have played this system so it isn't a formation for poor players, the way a few on here have suggested. The '82, '86, '90 and '02 World Cup winners all used a 3-5-2 for example, as have great club sides like Zidane's Juventus.
Very true. I like the formation myself - and if LVG does indeed opt for it at United, I'd be quite excited about it.
DDG
RCB - CB - LCB
RWB - DM - Herrera - Shaw
Mata
Van Persie - Rooney
I don't think he'll go for this, mind - but it would be a way to incorporate the trio of Mata, RVP and Rooney in, let's say, natural roles. And it could potentially be very exciting to watch - certainly not a negative set-up.RCB - CB - LCB
RWB - DM - Herrera - Shaw
Mata
Van Persie - Rooney
Me too man. We have some pretty good players for it as well. I can't think of a better way to play Mata, as having both Rooney and Van Persie up top gives him more threatening passing options, there is more to play off and slip through balls into.
The wingbacks IMO are really suited to those roles as well due to the raw energy levels they both bring. Obviously neither are quite Cafu/Carlos yet, but both Rafael and Shaw have the physique to get up and down to stretch the pitch in a similar way someone like Di Livio could. I think Rafael in particular would thrive in this set up, whereas Shaw still needs to develop his offensive game slightly.
Love that but really relies on the question marked positions being the right intelligent players for that system. I'm not convinced we currently have any CB (maybe Evans) who can play that system....
Yes - it would require some education.
That is partly why I don't think LVG will go for it - given that it would take more prepping than simply playing a straight four at the back. LVG doesn't have all the time in the world to get the team ready - he needs them to perform pretty much from the first whistle, we can't afford a too slow start.
Agree with this but the one thing he has in his favour is a (fairly) easy run of games to begin with. Maybe he'll try a couple of ideas out in the first games, or maybe even switch to them if we're comfortable?
The tour will be a big indicator I'm guessing....
Can't be just me who thinks he's shit? Not to mention constantly injured.
There's a little bit of revisionism creeping in I've noticed. The "Oh" he was quality just injury prone type comment. When I didn't ever think he was quality, just scored a few goals, which masks things.
No doubt - we might know a lot more when we see how he lines up against Galaxy.
Exactly, his greatest contributions to Arsenal were goals which is why he stood out initially, as a defender he's highly suspect and a complete crock.
I don't think 3-5-2 would work in the premier league. City have tried it a few times and it never worked for them. Too many teams with wingers and fullbacks overlapping.
There's been a lot made about us being United and obsessed with the winger style of play, but to completely abandon it, and basically be relying on full backs would be brave.
The positive is obviously that Mata, Rooney and VP could all play their best positions with 2 midfielders behind.
The idea of Shaw coming in, and being asked to play the hardest position, the wingback, is quite optimistic.
How many teams have played wingbacks in the last 5 years?
Yeah but LVG never used 3/5 at the back except for last World Cup when he had a very limited group of players to chose from. Situation at United is completely different.
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the system and how it suits this squad, it's not related to Van Gaal. We could have Ferguson or Moyes in charge and the view would be the same.
I hope we stay well away from a system that will leave Januzaj and Welbeck on the bench most of the time.
LvG's favorite tactic has always been a 4-3-3.. Only reason he used a 3-5-2 adnd its variations at the WC is that the Dutch squad he had wasn't exactly top class, especially at the back and even in midfield.. He'll play a 4-3-3 with us i think
If we are to get in a centre back, I'd prefer Vermaelen to De Vrij, mainly because he has EPL experience and can cover both, centre back and left back position, unless Van Gaal is actually looking to play 3 at the back, in which we'd most likely need two centre backs this Summer.
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So very similar to our squad?
Its more of a 4-2-3-1 isn't it? At Bayern it was something like Schweinsteiger/Van Bommel behind Robben/Muller/Ribery. My understanding is that it was similar with the Dutch, when Strootman was fit they still played Sneijder ahead.
But anyway, no one is saying 3-5-2 is his favourite system - just that it suits this team as we have an abundance of central forwards.
Ffs was that a serious suggestion or someone on a wind up?
Proper midfield signings should be made, than providing he signs, playing Vermaelen there.
Is this VermaelON?
We should be playing 4-3-3. That is the system he likes the most. We have the money and therefore we should have the players to play his preferred system.
Wenger will try and make drag this out until the last day of the season and I really hope we don't bother with it.
Our squad isn't amazing, but it's far better than the Dutch squad.
What is the actual link here with Vermaelen? Its smacks of agent shenanigans to me. If there are serious question marks about his durability then the only way Id imagine the club going for him would be at a really low fee.
In terms of individual talent yeah but Dutch were better coached and more of a team and probably would win a theoretical matchup
The link is that LvG is in very thorough in his centre backs, he has a thing for LCB's being left footed. He also wants his CB's to be capable on the ball, Vermaelen is both of these things. Being left footed also means he can cover at LB (whilst not very well) and has worked with LvG in the past. The fee touted doesn't particularly low, mainly £10-12m. Whether or not we are actually interested, there is definitely logic that links him to us.
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