Television Tho Prop Grops Throps

phelans shorts said:
I wouldn't be against it being broken to give someone a huge push, doing it to Cena who really doesn't need pushing would annoy me a lot, he's being given more attention than the title of late, hell a title match was overshadowed by him last week!
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Oh it was him and not Lesnars return? Oh okay.

People are getting embarrassing these days with the Cena criticism, I've always been a strong defender of his but now I just sit back look at the critics and say "did that person really just say that". I saw a thread on a wrestling forum where someone said Cena ruined Lesnars return because he smiled. :wenger:

Anyday now I'm expecting to see someone type the following "So I was watching Cena on RAW and than 5 days later I had gonorrhea, is Cena to blame?
 
John Cena once carried Bobby Lashley to a decent match.

Bobby Lashley.

I don't think I can praise the man highly enough after that.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Oh it was him and not Lesnars return? Oh okay.

People are getting embarrassing these days with the Cena criticism, I've always been a strong defender of his but now I just sit back look at the critics and say "did that person really just say that". I saw a thread on a wrestling forum where someone said Cena ruined Lesnars return because he smiled. :wenger:

Anyday now I'm expecting to see someone type the following "So I was watching Cena on RAW and than 5 days later I had gonorrhea, is Cena to blame?
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I think he's talking about WM. Lesnar wasn't involved.

Also he didn't 'ruin' it, but he sold it terribly. He smiled in acknowledgement when he came out, because he knew it was going to happen, and he sold the F5 as well as Johnny sold the GTS.
 
It would be cool to have Lesnar work in some MMA moves into his moveset. Maybe a new submission move like a kimura.
 
John Cena is portrayed as a babyface, he is just not over with the entire WWE demographic. For that reason I would argue that he will never reach the heights of Rock or Austin. They were ridiculously well received in their time
 
RyanGoggs said:
John Cena is portrayed as a babyface, he is just not over with the entire WWE demographic. For that reason I would argue that he will never reach the heights of Rock or Austin. They were ridiculously well received in their time
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I think it's just the superman personality. Everyone has a bit of a dark side in there somewhere, but nope Cena is portrayed as 100% pure. People can't relate to that (well kids and a lot of women do because they live in la la land). So he gets booed!
 
Zarlak said:
I think he's talking about WM. Lesnar wasn't involved.

Also he didn't 'ruin' it, but he sold it terribly. He smiled in acknowledgement when he came out, because he knew it was going to happen, and he sold the F5 as well as Johnny sold the GTS.
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No Cena fan, but he smiled because from what it looked like, they were supposed to be on friendly terms. They went for a handshake. Agree about the selling of the F5 though. Part of that could be down to Brock waiting too long with him on his shoulders. Don't want to struggle to hard with a guy who hasn't wrestled in years performing a move which he's botched horribly before
 
gormless said:
No Cena fan, but he smiled because from what it looked like, they were supposed to be on friendly terms. They went for a handshake. Agree about the selling of the F5 though. Part of that could be down to Brock waiting too long with him on his shoulders. Don't want to struggle to hard with a guy who hasn't wrestled in years performing a move which he's botched horribly before
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Yeah, but if that happened surely you'd be like wtf, what are you doing here? Not like, oh hey Brock who doesn't work here or have anything to do with the WWE, how are you.

He didn't even do a double take when the music hit, was just like ah here he is. Sold it terribly. I wouldn't say he ruined it or came close like Leroy said he has read, but he definitely could have sold it all so much better.
 
RyanGoggs said:
John Cena is portrayed as a babyface, he is just not over with the entire WWE demographic. For that reason I would argue that he will never reach the heights of Rock or Austin. They were ridiculously well received in their time
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He is throwback to the Hulk Hogan days. He was a pure baby face as well, look at his heel turn in WCW, that was awesome. But before that he was the epitome of all good in wrestling.

After that it changed, Bret Hart arguably the last of pure baby face left to WCW where he never got a good push. And at WWF, Austin just took off after his classic match with Hart at WM. He was a heel in that match BTW, turned tweener after that and eventually baby face but attitude era style. Others like Rock, HHH who had their babyface runs were on similar lines and it continued up until Cena turned out to be a huge draw for kids.
 
I phased out of wrestling for a while at one point. I remember Cena being the ruthless aggression guy (particularly when Kurt Angle owned him in that open challenge), then some of his thuganomics stuff. How did they change him into what he is now?
 
101 said:
I phased out of wrestling for a while at one point. I remember Cena being the ruthless aggression guy (particularly when Kurt Angle owned him in that open challenge), then some of his thuganomics stuff. How did they change him into what he is now?
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Yeah I don't watch now days as well. Watched WM due to all the hype but before that last match I watched was ages ago. Cena was hell then interesting turned face first time due to smarks more than marks.
 
Zarlak said:
I think he's talking about WM. Lesnar wasn't involved.

Also he didn't 'ruin' it, but he sold it terribly. He smiled in acknowledgement when he came out, because he knew it was going to happen, and he sold the F5 as well as Johnny sold the GTS.
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He wasn't but even if he was, I'd just point that The Rock was in that same match too.

Zarlak said:
Yeah, but if that happened surely you'd be like wtf, what are you doing here? Not like, oh hey Brock who doesn't work here or have anything to do with the WWE, how are you.

He didn't even do a double take when the music hit, was just like ah here he is. Sold it terribly. I wouldn't say he ruined it or came close like Leroy said he has read, but he definitely could have sold it all so much better.
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That's not the Cena character though, the Cena character doesn't get rattled, doesn't stand there in shock. Why should he be shown to be 'scared' of Lesnar.
Cena is constantly portrayed as the happy go lucky smile in the face of adversity guy so in what world in that situation did you expect Cena to shit his pants? It wasn't a smug or dismissive smile so I'm not really seeing any issue here whatsoever. As far as the F5 goes, might have helped if Lesnar didn't turn about 50 times to try and find the camera but no god forbid anyone but Cena is to blame.
 
Noone said he had to be scared of Lesnar Leroy, I know you'll defend your boy to the hilt, but are you telling me that when someone you haven't seen for years interrupts you, you don't even look a bit surprised to see them? Or do a double take when their music hits?

He didn't sell it at all, he just sold it like he knew he was coming. Which was stupid, he should have acted a bit better that's all. Looked straight to the crowd smiling, rather than putting on the 'what on earth is he doing here after all these years?'
 
Zarlak said:
Noone said he had to be scared of Lesnar Leroy, I know you'll defend your boy to the hilt, but are you telling me that when someone you haven't seen for years interrupts you, you don't even look a bit surprised to see them? Or do a double take when their music hits?

He didn't sell it at all, he just sold it like he knew he was coming. Which was stupid, he should have acted a bit better that's all.
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Going there again...........

Nonsense, it's simply not in Cena's character to get all shocked and animated, his response was perfectly in keeping with his character, mild mannered surprise and a respectful acknowledging smile.

It's ironic that you're moaning about him no selling, seeing as how it was smarks in the crowd who actually ruined Lesnars return anyway by loudly shouting "we want Lesnar". Where (may I add for the third time) the same smarks booed him out the building at WM 20. It's quite amazing that nowadays it's the smarks who are far more moronic than the marks.
 
Leroy The Red said:
Going there again...........

Nonsense, it's simply not in Cena's character to get all shocked and animated, his response was perfectly in keeping with his character, mild mannered surprise and a respectful acknowledging smile.

It's ironic that you're moaning about him no selling, seeing as how it was smarks in the crowd who actually ruined Lesnars return anyway by loudly shouting "we want Lesnar". Where (may I add for the third time) the same smarks booed him out the building at WM 20. It's quite amazing that nowadays it's the smarks who are far more moronic than the marks.
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Just because a few idiots in the crowd ruined it doesn't mean Cena has to think ah feck it, no point in acting surprised. You've referenced the hypocritical nature of fans a few times, it's natural and doesn't really have any relevance to this discussion.

The first part is nonesense, nobody in the world is impervious to surprise. When you see someone you haven't seen for years, who doesn't have any business where you are, turns up randomly, you look surprised at least for a second, you don't act like you knew it was going to happen all along. He just sold it badly. I'm not attacking him or calling him an abomination, I'm just saying he sold it badly which he did. I don't see why you have to have a period about it. People are allowed contrasting opinions.
 
Zarlak said:
Just because a few idiots in the crowd ruined it doesn't mean Cena has to think ah feck it, no point in acting surprised. You've referenced the hypocritical nature of fans a few times, it's natural and doesn't really have any relevance to this discussion.

The first part is nonesense, nobody in the world is impervious to surprise. When you see someone you haven't seen for years, who doesn't have any business where you are, turns up randomly, you look surprised at least for a second, you don't act like you knew it was going to happen all along.
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He did act surprised, it is possible to be surprised in a mild manner. There was no need and it'd have made no sense if this John Cena stood there open mouthed, wide eyed, swallowing, he isn't Vince McMahon.

And a few idiots? It was a good few hundred.

And its relevant to mention the hypocrisy of this crowd. As their levels of retardation go beyond the generic hypocrisy of regular sports fans. This criticism of Cena "no selling" Lesnars return epitomises the absurdness of these "fans".
 
Zarlak said:
It doesn't really, it's his job to sell it regardless of what the crowd do. Whether they chant his name or not, his job is to sell it.

It seems a lot of people missed this surprise you saw.
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He did sell it, that's the point, as much as I'd like to sit here and say he was trolling again, he clearly wasn't.
 
Leroy The Red said:
He did sell it, that's the point, as much as I'd like to sit here and say he was trolling again, he clearly wasn't.
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I'm not saying he was trolling, he just didn't sell it very well. Hence why a lot of people are bashing him for it. He came across like he clearly knew that Lesnar was on his way out, and that's not selling or story telling.
 
Leroy The Red said:
He wasn't but even if he was, I'd just point that The Rock was in that same match too.



That's not the Cena character though, the Cena character doesn't get rattled, doesn't stand there in shock. Why should he be shown to be 'scared' of Lesnar.
Cena is constantly portrayed as the happy go lucky smile in the face of adversity guy so in what world in that situation did you expect Cena to shit his pants? It wasn't a smug or dismissive smile so I'm not really seeing any issue here whatsoever. As far as the F5 goes, might have helped if Lesnar didn't turn about 50 times to try and find the camera but no god forbid anyone but Cena is to blame.
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Thanks for telling me what I think, I'm really glad because these things in my head get confusing, at least you know what I mean.

Wrestlemania isn't the only time, in the build up to mania, Cena would be main eventing when Punk faced Bryan! How on earth is he bigger than a champion vs champion match? It's fecking ridiculous and you know it is, don't act like it's anything other than that.
 
When Hulk Hogan turned heel there was a lot of hate for him, if i remember even a fan tried to jump into the ring and hulk was showered with litter. Hulk then said something about being the good guy for two years and doing everything for charities and kids but he got a bad reception, he then told the fans to stick it. This is exactly what Cena should do.
 
Zarlak said:
I'm not saying he was trolling, he just didn't sell it very well. Hence why a lot of people are bashing him for it. He came across like he clearly knew that Lesnar was on his way out, and that's not selling or story telling.
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Spot the difference.
 
Brock should have kicked him in the guy before the F5... and shouldn't have spent so long dicking about. At the same time, Cena should have tried *some* form of struggle... just looks pathetic otherwise.

Cena has a lot of good skills, he can be decent on the mic, and he can have very very good matches that tell excellent dramatic stories. However, his selling (especially his facial reactions) is probably one of the worst facets of his game.

He is of course booked horribly in the main, but I don't believe thats his fault, as opposed to just how he's booked by the people in the back. I reckon Cena would happily lose a lot more often if he was asked too... but thats just speculation.
 
Zarlak said:
I'm not saying he was trolling, he just didn't sell it very well. Hence why a lot of people are bashing him for it. He came across like he clearly knew that Lesnar was on his way out, and that's not selling or story telling.
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No he didn't but let's just agree to disagree.

phelans shorts said:
Thanks for telling me what I think, I'm really glad because these things in my head get confusing, at least you know what I mean.

Wrestlemania isn't the only time, in the build up to mania, Cena would be main eventing when Punk faced Bryan! How on earth is he bigger than a champion vs champion match? It's fecking ridiculous and you know it is, don't act like it's anything other than that.
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That's a lie there because on that Raw it was actually an Undertaker/HHH segment that closed the show but feel free to lie and say Cena did.
Not that it matters but both Undertaker/HHH and Rock/Cena are much much much bigger than any CM Punk/Bryan title match.


Annihilate Now! said:
Brock should have kicked him in the guy before the F5... and shouldn't have spent so long dicking about. At the same time, Cena should have tried *some* form of struggle... just looks pathetic otherwise.

I reckon Cena would happily lose a lot more often if he was asked too... but thats just speculation.
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Finally, someone mentions it.......................

He definitely would, after all he did job to K-Fed. That's another unfair criticism he gets, people say he's not willing to job and put people over, Edge, Miz, CM Punk, Nexus, The Rock....................
 
Leroy The Red said:
That's a lie there because on that Raw it was actually an Undertaker/HHH segment that closed the show but feel free to lie and say Cena did.
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Those matches happened a few times if you care to think back.

Not that it matters but both Undertaker/HHH and Rock/Cena are much much much bigger than any CM Punk/Bryan title match.
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Which is wrong, as the title should only be rivalled for size by company ownership stories.
 
worst debate ever or worstest?

Leroy is barely right behind his Cenation sunglasses, but he's right here, only heels have to "sell" a return as it's a sign of weakness which you generally don't want to do to your face. I mean Rock was absolutely unfazed when Jericho debated, and thats the greatest debut ever.
 
Zen said:
worst debate ever or worstest?

Leroy is barely right behind his Cenation sunglasses, but he's right here, only heels have to "sell" a return as it's a sign of weakness which you generally don't want to do to your face. I mean Rock was absolutely unfazed when Jericho debated, and thats the greatest debut ever.
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I'd say Rock sold it very well, the character Rock had at that (and pretty much all of the) time was of someone ridiculously, arrogant, so selling that return is simple, be annoyed that someone has the cheek to interrupt you. He certainly managed to look surprised when the countdown started.

For those who can't remember:

 
Zen said:
worst debate ever or worstest?

Leroy is barely right behind his Cenation sunglasses, but he's right here, only heels have to "sell" a return as it's a sign of weakness which you generally don't want to do to your face. I mean Rock was absolutely unfazed when Jericho debated, and thats the greatest debut ever.
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It's not that Zen, it's that he appeared to not even be surprised to see him. Which I find to be stupid.
 
I think it could have been sold better, whether it was WWEs fault or Cena. Brock should have at least attacked Cena first to leave him "dazed" before the no struggle F5. I would also have liked to see Cena react in a shocked and nervous manner. Yes he is the babyface and one of the "tough" guys in the business, but this is the former UFC champion and well known bad Ass Brock Lesnar. He should have sold at least a look of concern as he had no idea why Brock was there.

There is no shame in a babyface looking scared or apprehensive of faced by someone who looks and is booked legitimately like a monster. I've seen many times before where the likes of Austin and rock have looked scared as the Undertaker of Kane make an unexpected appearance
 
Just youtubed this return, legit have no idea what you are arguing about anyway....when he first comes out, he clearly tries to do a somewhat concerned look, but he's a terribly actor at the best of times....but his character can't allow for him to be truly fazed by shit, he's up to all challenges, thats his schtick. He doesn't actually smile and greet it until about 20 seconds after Brock comes out. The stuff Cena haters come up with sometimes is crazy.
 
I'm not a Cena hater, I think that the stuff Cena praisers come up with is crazy, it's like Barcelona fans when they talk about their own team and shrug off any accusations of diving.

The video is on page 90, skip to 06:42. Music hits, no surprised look, immediately just turns and looks about the crowd, no 'eh? Brock?' or 'what's he doing here?' just a oh let's look at the crowd. Then he starts to smile, there's no confusion, no puzzled look, no surprise. It's just bad acting that's all.
 
Why are you pointing me in the direction of the video....."Just youtubed this return"

Music hits

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Brock comes out

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Seriously, none of those are his usually facial expression, it's pretty obvious he's a bad actor, but he sold a mildly concerned look enough for me, I guess that's because I don't expect my wrestlers to be trained by Lee Strasberg and be Oscar Winners. Jesus now I'm involved in this good awful debate. *facepalm*
 
Cenas just shit poor at acting.
 
tbh, this is how you truly sell a return.



The HHHeel oversell. Nothing better.
 
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