RAW was garbage.
Television Tho Prop Grops Throps
- Thread starter Big-Red
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Reigns has grown leaps and bounds since that Rumble. Apart from Cena and his open challenge, Reigns has been putting top matches almost every time he's been in the ring. He deserves it as much as any other wrestler out there. Crowd likes him. He's got the best feud with Authority going on now. In fact he's already taken over from Cena as the face without having the title.
That was perhaps the worst RAW I have ever seen. And the one which has convinced me to leave WWE alone for a month at least.
The most boring wrestler ever is champion. They miss Rollins and Cena big time.
The most boring wrestler ever is champion. They miss Rollins and Cena big time.
I agree that he's come on leaps and bounds, i still find his storytelling in the ring isn't that great. e.g. 'injured shoulder' on Sunday and personally his ring work lacks variety or pacing for me to get excited about his matches. The crowd is still split on him, why do you think he was booed throughout SS?
Personally i think they made a mistake not giving him a real clean break from The Shield. Same entrance, same music, same attire. He hasn't developed in that aspect, he still lacks charisma, he still struggles when he opens his mouth. At least Cena could push a feud we all know he'd win with a promo, Roman Reigns his booking is like... 'eh, he's going to win'
Comments like im seeing in here makes me glad I didnt stay up to watch Raw and to take a 2 month main roster break until Rumble 
Though ill probably still read stuff to see if anything cool happens / debuts etc lol
Though ill probably still read stuff to see if anything cool happens / debuts etc lol
Comments like im seeing in here makes me glad I didnt stay up to watch Raw and to take a 2 month main roster break until Rumble
Though ill probably still read stuff to see if anything cool happens / debuts etc lol
This sums me up since Mania. I read results but tbh I do not miss watching (or should I say fast forwarding) RAW.
Got today off so I decided to spend it watching Survivor Series and Raw.
Did not expect Goldust to return, on the pre-show no less. Stardust's "I did not mean it" after punching him in the face was hillarious.
Reigns vs Del Rio was always gonna end like this, so I was not interested at all. Owens vs Ambrose was much better, really enjoyed that match and the chemistry they have together. Get them together in a feud please, one ending in a hardcore match of some kind. That pop-up powerbomb into Frankensteiner (?) reversal was incredible
The Survivor match was nothing special, the only good thing there was how the heels entered and their quotes. Paige vs Charlotte was the same, Charlotte's title reign has been as underdevelopped as her character.
I thought they did Wyatts vs BoD very well. The intro from The Undertaker was beautiful. Taking Rowan out early made it a bit unpredictable,
and having Bray going in there himself instead of having his lackeys do the dirty work for him was a good choice. Makes his character stronger. Also smart to use both of them to put Strowman through the table, works to the benefit of Braun.
Really wanted the Wyatts to go over, they needed that. I get that the win is important on his 25th, but Wyatt would benefit so much from a big win. He is due one.
Final was a bit meh. Stll think the first real Ambrose VS Reigns match deserves more build and more actual feud over this face vs face matchup in the final. Felt like a Raw match instead of an actual heavy hitting title match.
At least Ambrose is still a face I guess. Did not expect the Spear to Triple H to be fair, although the Cash-in was no surprise.
Have to admit that I laughed out loud when Sheamus held up the title, how the feck is he a 4time champion. He is good, but still!
Onto Raw then!
Did not expect Goldust to return, on the pre-show no less. Stardust's "I did not mean it" after punching him in the face was hillarious.
Reigns vs Del Rio was always gonna end like this, so I was not interested at all. Owens vs Ambrose was much better, really enjoyed that match and the chemistry they have together. Get them together in a feud please, one ending in a hardcore match of some kind. That pop-up powerbomb into Frankensteiner (?) reversal was incredible
The Survivor match was nothing special, the only good thing there was how the heels entered and their quotes. Paige vs Charlotte was the same, Charlotte's title reign has been as underdevelopped as her character.
I thought they did Wyatts vs BoD very well. The intro from The Undertaker was beautiful. Taking Rowan out early made it a bit unpredictable,
and having Bray going in there himself instead of having his lackeys do the dirty work for him was a good choice. Makes his character stronger. Also smart to use both of them to put Strowman through the table, works to the benefit of Braun.
Really wanted the Wyatts to go over, they needed that. I get that the win is important on his 25th, but Wyatt would benefit so much from a big win. He is due one.
Final was a bit meh. Stll think the first real Ambrose VS Reigns match deserves more build and more actual feud over this face vs face matchup in the final. Felt like a Raw match instead of an actual heavy hitting title match.
At least Ambrose is still a face I guess. Did not expect the Spear to Triple H to be fair, although the Cash-in was no surprise.
Have to admit that I laughed out loud when Sheamus held up the title, how the feck is he a 4time champion. He is good, but still!
Onto Raw then!
Man, that Raw was average at best. New Day, Titus interupting Stardust & The Worlds Strongest Jobber vs The Man Vince Forgot being the only things I actually remember.
Average? It was abysmal.
Standard opening segment that did nothing new. It's kinda boring to see Reigns demanding a rematch after every recent PPV, it feels like.
Sad to see Dudley's being used in a squash match for the Wyatts.
Sasha vs Becky was the best match of the day and was so short...
New Day was awesome as usual.
Neville getting a break in beating Mark henry (though I thought there was only a 2 count)
Poor Ascension. Nothing left to say.
Swagger vs Del Rio? *yawn*
Charlotte vs Paige. Decent match. Paige turning in a superb heel performance. Only if she stops talking or gets some training to cut promos.
And the new WWE Heavyweight champion plus 2 of this cronies all get beaten up by Reigns the next day after a PPV victory
So much for a strong heel title reign. And what a waste of Rusev/Barrett for such jobbing. Hope they turn this into a heel stable trio and in a proper feud. Things WWE needs to do:
- (Inter) Nation of Domination style stable with Sheamus, Barrett & Rusev. Maybe put the in a feud against the Wyatts.
- Give KO vs Ambrose a better back story
- A proper rival for the New Day. Damien Sandow can join the New Day too.
- Reigns vs HHH. The Authority can put Reigns through some difficulties in revenge for spearing HHH.
Anyone read Mick Foley's latest facebook post on WWE?
Yeah this return to wrestling hasn't been great and has been getting worse and worse. And seeing as I have even less free time I'm probably going to give up on it. I might come back to it around Rumble time but until then sayonara WWE and your god awful booking and storylines.
I do now. He's right you know.
It's an interesting take on the current state of the WWE. I don't watch Raw and Smackdown regularly, only the PPVS, so it's hard for me to comment on what he actually said.
He is spot on with great talent being wasted in short filler matches, no chance to show what they can do while the creative side bore people to death dragging out feuds from nowhere. Smackdown used to be full of matches now half of it is RAW recaps to fill time. Give Sasha, Becky, Neville and the other nxt newcomers the time to shine instead of wasting time on Smackdown repeating what happened on RAW. They are killing the ratings themselves with what they are producing and completely missing what the viewers want to see develop.
He's spot on.
Things WWE needs to do:
- (Inter) Nation of Domination style stable with Sheamus, Barrett & Rusev. Maybe put the in a feud against the Wyatts.
- Give KO vs Ambrose a better back story
- A proper rival for the New Day. Damien Sandow can join the New Day too.
- Reigns vs HHH. The Authority can put Reigns through some difficulties in revenge for spearing HHH.
To add to this.
- Bring back the Hardcore belt. It would be perfect for many of the current stars like Kevin Owens and Dean Ambrose. With so many top stars now, I think they need an extra belt to give some of the feuds meaning, and give some purpose to the wrestlers and increase their status rather than just turning up to do a job while the focus (as always) is on the so called bigger stars.
- Maybe it's time to also bring back the womens Tag Team Championship belt as well? although there may be a lack of women in the division, it's a shame because they could have some great teams.
Something needs to be done to stop the rot, because Survivor Series was the worst PPV for a while, where as last years was really good. RAW this week was abysmal, I thought it would struggle to get any worse yet they proved me wrong. it was dire. Too old and clichéd, too much waffle, wasting of top talent, not giving enough time to certain matches, replays, bad commentary, the crowds being constantly disappointed and it showing with their reactions, bad storylines, strange matches with no meaning and that just come out of nowhere, The Authority!, young stars being overlooked, the women not getting enough time again, I could go on............
Thanks for highlighting. I just read it. Nail on the head.
This is where the buck stops. The Authority needs to go. The only reason they are there now is to fuel Steph's and HHH's ego. Maybe we need a 'anti-Authority' (Bring back the Commissioner!) to feud with them rather than wrestlers directly.
Is Foley spot on that WWE don't present Owens as a top star? I get it with Cesaro and Ziggler but Owens has only been on WWE TV for coming up to a year and already he has:
1. Made NXT champion in his second NXT special with the company and had a decent reign with the title
2. Feuded with the company's top star on his main roster debut and went over clean in his first WWE PPV match
3. Has won his two feuds since then with Cesaro and Ryback and is currently the IC Champion.
Owens has been booked pretty strongly as far as I am concerned.
1. Made NXT champion in his second NXT special with the company and had a decent reign with the title
2. Feuded with the company's top star on his main roster debut and went over clean in his first WWE PPV match
3. Has won his two feuds since then with Cesaro and Ryback and is currently the IC Champion.
Owens has been booked pretty strongly as far as I am concerned.
Aye, Owens is the one that they did right I think.
What were the last 3 decent feuds WWE had?
This year, for me, Lesnar vs Undertaker, Cena vs Owens and Zayn vs Owens. I also liked all of Lesnar's feuds after he beat Cena at Summerslam. The Royal Rumble triple threat was very good.
Sasha vs Bailey, Lesnar vs Taker and Rollins vs Ambrose
It's hard to watch WWE at all when Lesnar isn't around. Straight away he makes everything seem so much more urgent and legitimate. The rest of the year when he's not around just feels like they are burning time until he's back.
I'd add Reigns vs Wyatts. At a stretch maybe Neville VS Stardust.
Edit: Solomon Crowe released by WWE/NXT.
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Shield's early 2014 run of Wyatts, then Evolution were my favourite feuds of the past 2 years
Cena vs Lesnar culminating in the Triple Threat was also incredible. Great promos and matches
Rollins and Ambrose feud was good too, some great matches. No idea when it was though - my concept of time is all to feck
ratings go below 3 mil in the states, a record low.
Looks like people are voting with their remotes. They'll panic soon, Vince always does.
Looks like people are voting with their remotes. They'll panic soon, Vince always does.
This is part of the problem. Owens is the IC champion... When was the last time the US or IC title were actually defended. They wasted Cenas huge run to have him lose in like five minutes to Del Rio and then didnt even follow up on Del Rio.
Owens won the IC title then... I forgot he was IC champ.
New Day are entertaining as feck yet who was their last tag team feud with? PTP and Dudleys? Then?
Their titles outside of the world title mean nothing unless a top star is holding it.
Edit: Also LOL at less than 3m viewers. Good. And this is a Raw after one of the big four PPVs as well. Hope the trend continues (and theres a massive NFL game next monday) ?
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I don't think you can regard NXT and imho i think they could of made him more of a threat to Cena, i think he should of at least picked up a 2nd win, possibly dirty before losing the blow off.
After that it's hard to tell, the Cesaro was really a nothing feud and didn't really do anything for either of them, and winning the title of Ryback doesn't make him a 'top star' as they've devalued the IC title so much and nobody cared about Ryback being champion.
I think in some ways he could of been made stronger, for me he's run away/tried to escape from to many matches and been at the end of a few beat downs. For example in NXT, he stared Joe down before diving out the ring and deciding not to fight. The WWE Kevin Owens would of hightailed it out the Crowd ala Rollins, he started off more as an aggressive heel, then after Cena turned him to a cowardly one similar to Rollins.
Although now i think they've realised what they have, he's been booked better since winning the IC title and he'll be a feud with Ambrose next. Hopefully they are both are allowed to go all out in the inevitable ladder match.
Oh and they need to use Owens and the Pop Up powerbomb to write people off for injuries/time off.
Both was Hell in a Cell, have to remember Rollins injury screwed them up. Ambrose and Owens was the teased feud for the IC title and then it was looking like Del Rio and Swagger...
It's an issue with having such a large roster, but with no real huge stars. It's like every feud has the initial set up and then perhaps a rematch and everything is forgotten and the next challenger steps in. We don't get long drawn out feuds much anymore, you don't really get a story. For example, PTP lost the tag team championship and then just seemed to disappear from the picture, same with the Dudley's..
Personally i don't really care about the belts, more about the stories around the matches for the belt. They need to let their champions talk and challengers talk, and not some crappy Miz TV segment.. they also need to bring back backstage segments and titles being defended on Raw/Smackdown.
Of course you can include NXT in Owens WWE career. He was promoted as the NXT champion on his arrival on to the main roster. It was the entire selling point in his introduction to his feud with Cena and all the guys he had injured with the Apron power bomb were shown and promoted on his debut.
Cena and Owen had three PPV matches. Any more than that would have been overkill and if Owens had beaten Cena more than once in their feud he would basically have gone over in the feud between them. People have complained about Reigns being overpushed but Owens beating Cena twice in his first feud in the company would have been far worse hot shotting. Owens also had to drop the NXT title in this sequence of matches. Don't you think it would look odd for him to go over the company's most decorated wrestler but lose to someone from NXT? Where would he go from there? How can you make feuds with the likes of Cesaro, Ambrose or Ryback look competitive if he comes straight into the company and beats Cena twice? The only place he can go would be into feuds with Lesnar, Rollins or Reigns which is basically straight into the title picture rather than building him steadily.
Owens has been booked fine in terms of being aggressive and sometimes backing down. His matches demonstrate the vast majority of his arsenal of moves. Owens is also smart enough to actually act like a heel and try and get booed.
He's also won the majority of his feuds in the company and even on losing matches to Cena and Finn Balor, he has beaten both of them in other matches. You can't really get stronger booking unless you get hot-shotted straight in to the title picture.
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Well i say that because a) how people are handled on NXT is different to main roster, and b) The majority of the main WWE fans are not aware of the goings on at NXT.
My issue is that they missed a chance with Owens. He's a great heel and now Rollins is gone, he's probably the best heel they have, but he's not been booked ready to get to that main event, so they have to quickly resort to Sheamus who has been noting more than a glorified jobber recently. Maybe that would of seen hot shotting him into main event/title, but it's totally different to to Reigns.
Owens beat Cena clean first time, great good introduction. Then they should of had him on the verge of losing, only to win dirty and maybe after that destroy Cena on with the Apron Bomb and actually sell that shit... hell if they had Cena sell the Apron Bomb like they did in NXT it probably would not of mattered had he won the match, but hey Cena only had 'back spasms' and was gone a week. But imho they should of put the US title on him, then have him drop the NXT title and do a complete 180 and say 'i don't care about NXT, i have the better US title now'. Whilst Cena is out, his next feud should of been teased and when Cena came back and won his title back they both could of moved on.
How ever after they built him up, he taps to Cena, he gets stuck at the guy eating pins in the 6 man tags on Raw and he's spending most of him time running away or walking off. They started actively scripting fat jokes in, and calling him 'run Owens run'.
They've been building him back up though since he won the IC title though. But they need to, because they need more heels and they need to really start elevating titles.
He's a top star, he's gets a huge pop every time because everyone knows they'll be entertained. Then he can turn that same crowd around and get incredible heat. Look at Raw in Manchester, he did exactly that in 30 seconds, or the go home NXT before Brooklyn. How ever he's been kept down the ladder for now.
I think what's happened to Owens is just what's happened to so many recently, especially heels, and now they really have nobody up the very top. Wyatt's, when was the last time he actually won... Wade Barrett is now practically a jobber (although hopefully they have him as part of this new 'Authority' group) Rusev went from unbeaten to being in some rubbish love story after they turned the best part of his character into Zigglers bimbo... Sheamus has been booked quite weak since his return etc etc.
There would have been nothing wrong with Owens beating cena in the feud. That would have made a top level star automatically, a heel that the WWE badly needs. Cena would have lost nothing from it either cos hes Cena. (Not sure about this whole notion of where would he go next - theres plenty of places to take him with good storytelling).
From there, he could have then got the IC title (as he did) - hes a prizefighter after all).
WWE are in a state of having Cena/ Brock / Taker at the top.
Then older guys / legends under them.
Then a whole mass of middleness with everybody else so really wins and losses truly mean nothing. They dont have stars cos they dont focus on three or four guys to elevate, they just have everybody lose to everybody and it means nothing in the end.
From there, he could have then got the IC title (as he did) - hes a prizefighter after all).
WWE are in a state of having Cena/ Brock / Taker at the top.
Then older guys / legends under them.
Then a whole mass of middleness with everybody else so really wins and losses truly mean nothing. They dont have stars cos they dont focus on three or four guys to elevate, they just have everybody lose to everybody and it means nothing in the end.
Owens vs Ambrose for IC title at TLC then. Give them a ladder match and they'll steal the show.
Shame we won't get this spot in WWE.
Shame we won't get this spot in WWE.
And rightfully so.
The ref on the leftOwens vs Ambrose for IC title at TLC then. Give them a ladder match and they'll steal the show.
Shame we won't get this spot in WWE.
We almost got a Coup De Grace, off a ladder through a ladder though!
Cena is the face and he's not losing to an upstart. And they already had Rollins, so don't see the need for another top heel at that time. But they needed someone for IC/US belts and Owens is a definitely a shoe in for that. He did end up winning the IC belt after all.
We should move away from the belt and have other storyline feuds. We had Evolution with HHH, Batista and Orton (plus Flair). You can do something similar with Sheamus, Barrett and KO here.
Lots of potentials if only Creative can get their collective heads out of their asses.
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Spoiler for Smackdown/TLC
Dean Ambrose won a triple treat match with Ziggler and Breeze to be #1 contender for the IC Title.
Reading this thread is worse than reading the FF at times.
Am I the only one who couldn't be bothered by Breeze? I just don't find that character interesting...apart from Summer Rae ofc. He's doomed to get the Adam Rose treatment.
Expected. KO/Ambrose has the capacity to be one feud.
Expected. KO/Ambrose has the capacity to be one
feud.