Thiago Alcantara | Signed for Bayern Munich

Status
Not open for further replies.
Didn't think Jonathan Dos Santos was that highly rated? He's 22 now, has he made many appearances?

Alcantara looks to have the potential to be a world class player and isn't his brother rated even higher?
 
kouroux said:
Fabregas did return when they had Xavi,Iniesta,Jonathan dos Santos,Sergio Roberto and Thiago Alcantra.
Weird assumption from you Chief
Click to expand...
I don't see anything weird about it
Fabregas returned when the like of Thiago were still unknown entities.

Fabregas returned to this 1st team midfield:
Xavi
Busquets
Ineista
Keita

untested:
Thiago
Dos Santos

If Thiago was to leave this summer this is what he could potentially find in comparison:

32yrs Iniesta
27yrs Busquets
29yrs Fabregas
26yrs J Dos Santos
24 Sergi Roberto
23 years Rafinha (rumored in Barca ranks to be a superior talent to Thiago)

& that is assuming they don't sign Spanish talents like Javi Martinez in that period.
 
The major difference with Thiago and the likes of Fabregas, Piqué, Romeu, Bojan, Jordi Alba etc is that he is not a Catalan like they are. Barcelona isn't his hometown, so to speak.

I'm not saying its likely he'll leave, because in my opinion he clearly won't, but I don't think it's fair to compare him to other returning (or potential returning) players as Barcelona isn't in his blood the same as it is with the others.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I don't see anything weird about it
Fabregas returned when the like of Thiago were still unknown entities.

Fabregas returned to this 1st team midfield:
Xavi
Busquets
Ineista
Keita

untested:
Thiago
Dos Santos

If Thiago was to leave this summer this is what he could find in comparison:

32yrs Iniesta
27yrs Busquets
29yrs Fabregas
26yrs J Dos Santos
24 Sergi Roberto
23 years Rafinha (rumored in Barca ranks to be a superior talent to Thiago)

& that is assuming they don't sign Spanish talents like Javi Martinez in that period.
Click to expand...

There are many unknown quantities in the players you mentioned namely Dos Santos,Sergi Roberto and Rafinha.Nothing guarantees that all of those young promising players will make it at all at Barca.
Besides Thiago will have than enough talent and quality to not worry about finding his place.
Like I said very weird to use in one case Thiago as a unknown quantity for Cesc and the three others as certainty for Thiago
 
There were rumours of our interest last summer IIRC - in fact I think there was even talk that Gill had made enquiries but walked away as Barca wanted a low buy-back deal as has been talked here in the last few posts. If that sort of deal would be workable then the pre-agreed buy-back fee would have to be substantial. For example should he come here for £25m and become the first name on the team-sheet only for Barca to take him back for £30m then I can't see any interest from us overcoming that. The sugar daddy teams might do that deal I guess; they lose a world class player for below his value than they just go out and over-pay for someone else, which we clearly can't.

Seriously good player of course.
 
if he is available then i hope we will try to get him.

seriously a gifted player. the buy back clause could be a problem though. not ideal for us to sign someone who we knew could be leaving in 3 or 4 years time just as we sign the player.

anyway this guy is a fantastic prospect.
 
Is it actually realistic that this guy could leave?

Sometimes I think we just express interest in order to force clubs like Barca to pay top wages if they want to keep their best players.

Pique for Thiago wouldn't be a bad trade.
 
kouroux said:
There are many unknown quantities in the players you mentioned namely Dos Santos,Sergi Roberto and Rafinha.Nothing guarantees that all of those young promising players will make it at all at Barca.
Besides Thiago will have than enough talent and quality to not worry about finding his place.
Like I said very weird to use in one case Thiago as a unknown quantity for Cesc and the three others as certainty for Thiago
Click to expand...
The difference you have skipped is in that in 4 years time those other players are unlikely to still be unknown quantities. So a returning Thiago wouldn't be in a similar situation to what Fabregas walked into last summer. He'd probably return to find others pretty established as Barca starters.

Then there is also the fact that he isn't a Catalan. If he established himself into a super star elsewhere. I'm not sure the draw to return to Barca would be as strong as it was for a Fabregas.


but that is all hypothetical really...
 
Ferguson said:
Is it actually realistic that this guy could leave?
Click to expand...

Not really.

Homeomorphic said:
Silly rumours. Last season was his debut season for the first team and he already featured in 27 Liga and 7 CL games, playing as much as Iniesta and Fabregas, including big games against Milan and Real Madrid. In fact he said he didn't expect to play that much and his father most recently added this:

"He [Thiago] is delighted with his new contract, he wants to stay at Barcelona for the rest of his life."
Click to expand...
 
Antisocial said:
There were rumours of our interest last summer IIRC - in fact I think there was even talk that Gill had made enquiries but walked away as Barca wanted a low buy-back deal as has been talked here in the last few posts. If that sort of deal would be workable then the pre-agreed buy-back fee would have to be substantial. For example should he come here for £25m and become the first name on the team-sheet only for Barca to take him back for £30m then I can't see any interest from us overcoming that. The sugar daddy teams might do that deal I guess; they lose a world class player for below his value than they just go out and over-pay for someone else, which we clearly can't.

Seriously good player of course.
Click to expand...

I don't get what's so bad about that deal you proposed..

We get him for two or three years and as you say, he would become one of the first names on the team sheet, then sell him for five million profit.

It's effectively being paid £5million to take Thiago on loan for a few seasons, during which he would be a huge improvement to our midfield. I'd snap their hand off if they offered us that.

Obviously it would be better if we could keep him, but if that's the case he would cost more than £25million and regardless, it doesn't alter the fact that a loan would still help the squad and be a brilliant temporary signing... For effectively no cost.
 
Alacantara is the most talented youngster in his age group, can't see him moving anywhere. Barca know that he's a gem.
 
It wasn't long ago that Bojan and Giovanni Dos Santos were set to be the next great Barcelona products, yet neither really made an impression. I realise Thiago looks to be on another level but some of these youngsters are insanely over hyped. I remember when everyone was convinced Dos Santos was the 'new Ronaldinho', literally everyone.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
It wasn't long ago that Bojan and Giovanni Dos Santos were set to be the next great Barcelona products, yet neither really made an impression. I realise Thiago looks to be on another level but some of these youngsters are insanely over hyped. I remember when everyone was convinced Dos Santos was the 'new Ronaldinho', literally everyone.
Click to expand...

Just how football works sometimes.. When you play with a the best you tend to look a bit better than you are. However can actually be that good too.
 
mufcwarm92 said:
It wasn't long ago that Bojan and Giovanni Dos Santos were set to be the next great Barcelona products, yet neither really made an impression. I realise Thiago looks to be on another level but some of these youngsters are insanely over hyped. I remember when everyone was convinced Dos Santos was the 'new Ronaldinho', literally everyone.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's fair to group Bojan and Giovani together. Bojan contributed 11 goals in under 20 starts in his first season, he showed he had the quality on a regular basis. Giovani never did that for Barca, he turned it on for them in his last game for the club but that was it. He was called the new Ronaldinho almost solely based on the similarities in their appearance rather than what he'd shown at first-team level. Thiago's in the same boat as Bojan was originally - shown he's got the quality and is already contributing week after week. Perhaps he'll go the same way as Bojan because of mentality issues but it won't be for a lack of quality - it was for Giovani.

It looks to me like the Alcantara brothers are the cream of the crop, Giovani was just another gifted player more like Delofeu is seen now - all hype but nothing to show for it. Anyone who saw Giovani rather than simply read the comparisons could see that:

daleberto said:
there must be a very good reason Barcelona are going to let him go for 7.5million, im going to guess he isnt actually that good. Seen him play for Barca a few times and he doesnt look anything special, and quite clearly they have realised that!!
Click to expand...

R.Nilsson7 said:
He's shite.
Click to expand...

reddevilcanada said:
he plays wide right for barca and didn't really set la liga alight this season, but he's a talented kid and Messi playing in teh same position doesn't help. Bojan is thought of more highly than Giovanni as well, although the Spanish kid plays more centrally and is a natural goal-scorer...

will be interesting to see where he plays because Lennon already plays wide right for the spurs, so perhaps he'd play off of a striker (bent/keane) which would make sense with berbatov likely to leave...
Click to expand...

Freduardo said:
Scored a quality hat trick on the last day of the season against Murcia :drool:

Struggled all season up to that though. Has potential but not sure what to make of him. Wasn't he on the same level as Bojan a year or two ago in terms of where Barca rated them?

No idea of price either then?
Click to expand...

Scholesy said:
Hes pretty poor, well overated.
Click to expand...

Ballache said:
he will get raped in the PL.
Click to expand...

IhabX7 said:
Have watched him a lot this season, not really impressed.
Click to expand...

rotherham_red said:
k14 - he's good, but he's not on the level of a Bojan, Aguero, Anderson, Pato etc. Plus, his attitude stinks...
Click to expand...

You can bet no-one's going to say the same kind of thing about Alcantara because he's already shown so much more. Of course, there's always people like the Chief who jump on the bandwagon of any hyped youngster and big him up even further and that gives people the wrong idea.

Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
We should grab him before they do...He would be excellent cover for Nani and Ronaldo long term...
Click to expand...
 
Theon said:
I don't get what's so bad about that deal you proposed..

We get him for two or three years and as you say, he would become one of the first names on the team sheet, then sell him for five million profit.

It's effectively being paid £5million to take Thiago on loan for a few seasons, during which he would be a huge improvement to our midfield. I'd snap their hand off if they offered us that.

Obviously it would be better if we could keep him, but if that's the case he would cost more than £25million and regardless, it doesn't alter the fact that a loan would still help the squad and be a brilliant temporary signing... For effectively no cost.
Click to expand...

It is indeed debatable - I guess the biggest downside/risk would be that in that scenario then Thiago would cost more (possibly far more) than £30m to replace. Barca wouldn't be executing that buy-back unless he had proven himself with us; would we then face having to pay £40m+ to replace him? Maybe more if the FFPR don't impact the sugar daddies? Also some might argue that a club of our stature shouldn't be agreeing to those type of deals at all on principle, but it might be the reality of the situation where most young talents look to Spain or the sugar daddies before looking to a club like ours.

It's an interesting debate though. Would the muppets accept a buy-back deal:

1. At all - or reject it on principle that we're Man Utd and shouldn't be buying players with such strings attached?
2. With a low buy-back, e.g. £5m over fee we pay?
3. Only if we can negotiate a fee related to the market value of the player at the time of Barca clicking their fingers and him running back?
 
Antisocial said:
It is indeed debatable - I guess the biggest downside/risk would be that in that scenario then Thiago would cost more (possibly far more) than £30m to replace. Barca wouldn't be executing that buy-back unless he had proven himself with us; would we then face having to pay £40m+ to replace him? Maybe more if the FFPR don't impact the sugar daddies? Also some might argue that a club of our stature shouldn't be agreeing to those type of deals at all on principle, but it might be the reality of the situation where most young talents look to Spain or the sugar daddies before looking to a club like ours.

It's an interesting debate though. Would the muppets accept a buy-back deal:

1. At all - or reject it on principle that we're Man Utd and shouldn't be buying players with such strings attached?
2. With a low buy-back, e.g. £5m over fee we pay?
3. Only if we can negotiate a fee related to the market value of the player at the time of Barca clicking their fingers and him running back?
Click to expand...

To summarize it, I don't think SAF would give a damn about the buy out issues as I don't think that is how we do business, its either you want to play for us, or just stay there.
 
Brwned said:
I don't think it's fair to group Bojan and Giovani together. Bojan contributed 11 goals in under 20 starts in his first season, he showed he had the quality on a regular basis. Giovani never did that for Barca, he turned it on for them in his last game for the club but that was it. He was called the new Ronaldinho almost solely based on the similarities in their appearance rather than what he'd shown at first-team level. Thiago's in the same boat as Bojan was originally - shown he's got the quality and is already contributing week after week. Perhaps he'll go the same way as Bojan because of mentality issues but it won't be for a lack of quality - it was for Giovani.

It looks to me like the Alcantara brothers are the cream of the crop, Giovani was just another gifted player more like Delofeu is seen now - all hype but nothing to show for it. Anyone who saw Giovani rather than simply read the comparisons could see that:

















You can bet no-one's going to say the same kind of thing about Alcantara because he's already shown so much more. Of course, there's always people like the Chief who jump on the bandwagon of any hyped youngster and big him up even further and that gives people the wrong idea.
Click to expand...

Fair enough. I only really grouped the two together as they seemed to be hyped at around the same time. I recognise that Bojan had a decent debut season but he was being described as the next great goalscorer in Europe and it would be fair to say he is just nowhere near that.

On the Dos Santos front, you've done some decent digging there. I agree it was clear when they let him go to Spurs that he was not all that. I was mainly referring to a year or two before that though - he was on the fringes of the Barcelona side but everyone thought he was God's gift, and not just because he looked like the best player in the world, but supposedly played like him too.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing how Thiago develops given those two examples. I find it interesting that neither Pedro nor Busquets were massively hyped, despite being in a similar generation, yet both have gone on to impress in one of the greatest club sides in years.
 
Thiago reminds me of Nani with his dribbling, touch and ability to shoot from range. He's not as fast, but they're fairly similar players centrally. They even look similar.
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Is it just me or with Kaggy signed and also Powell, I'm looking fwd to us being linked with those Stootman's, M'Vila's and Martinez's as they're the type of MF's we are lacking with OH and Fletcher out.
Click to expand...

You're not alone
 
RedThaiDevils#7 said:
Is it just me or with Kaggy signed and also Powell, I'm looking fwd to us being linked with those Stootman's, M'Vila's and Martinez's as they're the type of MF's we are lacking with OH and Fletcher out.
Click to expand...

:nono:

No, just no.

Although, I agree we need a few midfielders, we lost Fletcher and Hargreaves recently, Scholes and Giggs won't be around forever and Carrick has no real cover.
 
Thiago is an amazing talent, I am not so sure about his brother though regardless of what Barcelona fans say.

Thiago has an audacity about his play that may not be suited if he plays in the Xavi role which is what it seems to me he will play eventually but that can be curtailed or further enhanced if he is given another role.

Anyway he will be absolute class imo.
 
It's amazing how rumours bounce around these days:lol:

Catalan paper El Mundo Deportivo linked United with Thiago a few days ago, then Daily Mail does a story about that but doesn't mention El Mundo and then the other big Catalan paper Sport does a story about Thiago to United yesterday citing Daily Mail.
 
I won't be surprised if Alacantara will be sold using the same formula used for Bojan (ie asking ridiculous amount of money to loan him + another ridiculously high amount of money to actually buy him). I don't think we need another creative midfielder. However if we do need that, then I wonder why we don't go for Dzagoev. The lad is at the right age, he's got more experience then Alacantara and he's on free.
 
L'Equipe are running a story about him. Not much information but I'll post the translated version.

http://www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Mu-alcantara-ou-modric/292147

MU: Alcantara or Modric?

Manchester United is looking for a middle runner. Reportedly, the English club has targeted Thiago Alcantara and Luka Modric. The International Barcelona 21 years under contract through 2015, costs about € 26 million. The Croatian, he is linked to Tottenham until 2016. Aged 26 years, it is estimated to be at least 30 million euros.
Click to expand...
 
Yes. I would prefer the middle runner that is Thiago.
 
Barca likes their academy players. IMO Thiago is the best talent La Masia developed since Messi. I cannot see they selling him.
 
Ismail Elezi said:
Barca likes their academy players. IMO Thiago is the best talent La Masia developed since Messi. I cannot see they selling him.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure La Masia did not develop Messi to be strictly speaking.

But on the point I agree that Thiago is not going to be sold by Barcelona unless he wants to leave.
 
Hallucinogen said:
I am pretty sure La Masia did not develop Messi to be strictly speaking.

But on the point I agree that Thiago is not going to be sold by Barcelona unless he wants to leave.
Click to expand...

Leo is a phenomenon...He'd still be unbelievable had he stayed with an Argentine club early on but I think he's become better because of La Masia

And you're absolutely correct on their cantera players, it typically takes a player forcing their way out or being surplus to needs
 
FCBarca said:
Leo is a phenomenon...He'd still be unbelievable had he stayed with an Argentine club early on but I think he's become better because of La Masia

And you're absolutely correct on their cantera players, it typically takes a player forcing their way out or being surplus to needs
Click to expand...

That is only due to recent success though. When Barca were mediocre at the elite level but only a few years ago Pique and Cesc left. The same will happen when this period of dominance is over, don't delude yourself.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
That is only due to recent success though. When Barca were mediocre at the elite level but only a few years ago Pique and Cesc left. The same will happen when this period of dominance is over, don't delude yourself.
Click to expand...

Not mediocrity but disorganization and lack of faith in the cantera
 
FCBarca said:
Leo is a phenomenon...He'd still be unbelievable had he stayed with an Argentine club early on but I think he's become better because of La Masia

And you're absolutely correct on their cantera players, it typically takes a player forcing their way out or being surplus to needs
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that being in the academy gave him exposure but ultimately a play like Messi I believe was always going to reach this level especially because the fundamental skills of a footballer are developed at age 13.

I think being in a higher grade academy helped him tactically but that too I feel would have come to him had he stayed in Argentina.
 
Yeah, with Leo all you have to do is see his vids from 5 years of age and he is playing nearly the same way today
 
Status
Not open for further replies.