Except that the handball offense was committed deep inside their box. But the overall point that Croatia acquitted itself well is beyond any dispute. They just had a very hard time breaking down France's back line, whereas France did break down Croatia's back line when it needed to.
The World Cup Final: France vs Croatia (Kickoff 16H00 BST)
- Thread starter K2K
- Start date
Except that the handball offense was committed deep inside their box. But the overall point that Croatia acquitted itself well is beyond any dispute. They just had a very hard time breaking down France's back line, whereas France did break down Croatia's back line when it needed to.
When the gaps were there to exploit for France due to being a goal down. Without that penalty it’s a different ball game both tactically and mentally.
Again, explain to me how a ball that struck the hand of a defender and therefore changed the direction of a ball that was going to go behind the defender where opposition players were in the box for a tap in is NOT a penalty. This whole nonsense of 'whoever played the game knows it's not a penalty' is ridiculous. It didn't hit his arm, it hit his hand which was extended away from the rest of his body. I'm not saying the hand was intentional, it wasn't, but it still took from a potential valuable opportunity for a tap in by France.
That IS the rule though. You cant go and give the ones that look dubious because they happened to hit the hand in slow mo. Players will use their hands to jump and balance themselves all the time. Handballs are given for intent, not for failing to get your hands close to your body.
I'm sorry but that leaves the game open to massive interpretation of intent then, and that's not what anybody wants in the game. Perhaps this is how the rule is written, but for me if a handball takes away from a good scoring opportunity for the opposition, with or without intent it should be a penalty. FIFA needs to make clear their ruling on penalties because if you start to open it up to interpretation of intent, then we will have situations like this again and again. It is up to defenders to be more careful to not have their hand stick out when challenging for the ball. You can jump without having to flail your arms and hands about if you time your jump right, it's very easy to have those stuck by the side of your body or against your chest/stomach area by the time you're in the air and challenging for the ball if you're timing your challenge correctly.
No you cant jump that way. We don't have tails. And sorry but that is the law, unless it is blatant and has intent to clearly deviate the ball from its natural course inside the box to prevent a goal scoring opportunity it is not a penalty. A handball outside the box and a handball within the box are 2 different scenarios and this is as per the letter of the law. Yes there is a massive grey area here and subjectivity but all things considered it is only fair considering humans can't jump and /or balance themselves without using their hands /feet.
You can see Perisic initiate a sudden downwards arm movement when he sees Matuidi will head the ball. You could argue he was possibly trying to move the arm away but he is moving exactly his hand towards the ball and ends up in a position that looks like a handball GK going for a save. At best he clumsily fails to move away his arm and has a bad reflex because he's a forward untrained to defend these situations (an option that I favour btw).
Perisic should've known better though and one consistency in refereeing handballs is that you can't just swing your arms in front of a player going for an obvious shot or cross and claim plausible deniability because it was going too fast.
I thank you for letting me know we don't have tails, I had huge doubts about that in all my years of living. Now, you need your arms and legs to gather yourself and initiate the jump. By the time you're in the air, it's absolutely possible to have your arms and hands against your body; you don't need to develop a tail for that, I promise you can try it right now at home. Initiate a jump, and when you're in the air have your arms against your chest area. You will still be able to move your head in whatever direction the ball might be in the air. A handball, whether intentional or not, took away from a tap in opportunity. If you don't call it, then there's equal massive outrage from the other side (assuming the game remained tied or France lost) that a clear opportunity was taken away from a hand sticking out from the rest of his body. Utimately, the fault lies with FIFA leaving this huge grey area of intent instead of just penalizing without regard. It may be harsh, but I'd rather we don't have scenarios where we have to start interpreting the intent of players, and going through slow motion replays to make that kind of decision. It's up to defenders to manage this issue, and let's not leave it to a referee to make wild interpretations on a person's intent.
And on a side-note, I think it has been kind of ridiculous how France has had referees in their 1/4, 1/2, and final consistently each following game from the country they eliminated in Argentina and Uruguay. Surprised it wasn't a Belgian referee at the final. It's not even to say they would have an agenda against them (clearly, they didn't), but because now there is the added pressure for them that if, for example, Nestor Pitana didn't call this penalty then suddenly his integrity could be in check (whether that's true or not, you can't discount that it's something that could have crossed his mind at the time of making his decision).
IN slow mo it looks like that but he was standing right behind him and had no idea who or what was behind him to deviate the ball purposefully. If you simulated that situation a 100 times you would know what im talking about. You can't give those under the existing rules, or rather shouldn't and quite rightly. The rule is not meant to penalise not getting your hands out of the way when you are not intending to use it as an impediment.
You don't need to be deliberately obtuse when you know what point I'm making. yes it's good you know that the handball rule is a grey area because of the debate surrounding intent which is why these penalties are not given unless they are very blatant or when you have your hands up high in the air very purposefully but that's how it is and that's how it has always been. The grey area is precisely because humans use their hands to balance themselves and can't run or move like they are wearing a straitjacket, the benefit of the doubt thus always goes to the player whose arm the ball hits if the ref isn't sure. You are not supposed to penalise failure to get the hands away from the ball even though it was in a natural position because you had no time to react under the present rules and quite rightly. the only other way to go would be to go the hockey way and penalise the defending team everytime the ball hits the defenders hand which would lead to teams not bother attacking or playing proper football but just smashing it into someone's arm and asking for a penalty.
The last point you make is interesting, but I wouldn't worry about it so much because good defenders are pretty apt at keeping their hands by their body when a player is getting ready to take a shot. I understand your point, but him not knowing what was behind him doesn't take away from the opportunity the handball prevented. If the exact same situation had occurred, and they were no other French players around in the box, then I wouldn't feel as strongly about it. But you can't have this just be a simple deflection for corner when the hand was the only thing that stopped the ball from creating a goalscoring chance. If it was the hand and part of the knee, or hip, or chest then I don't think a penalty is given at that point.
Mate, we are so fecking tiny that the fact that we pretty much qualify for all the World Cups and EUROs is miraculous. To be in the WC Final is beyond all dreams and hopes. Especially how much is Croatian FA ridden with corruption, we barely have a couple of training centre's and with the exception of 4 the largest clubs, the rest is barely existing. The players yesterday announced that they gonna lead the support for needed changes and that really makes me happy.
The celebrations continued yesterday throughout Croatia and they will continue to the end of the week, because we are not celebrating the loss in the Final, we are celebrating 6 previous wins and this amazing achievement. Let's be honest, this is something that I, and probably most of us will never see again in our lifetime. I was heartbroken after the game on Sunday, but to see almost half the country in the streets, spontaneous, happy, singing and celebrating with their families and children without any incident, it's beautiful. It's unbelievable that there isn't reported any incident in all this chaos.
I am so fecking lucky that when I was born half of my family lived in Croatia, and half in Manchester so I can have United and Croatia.
I've seen comments on youtube posts that the ball hit Matuidi's arm first. Not intentional but...
Think the party is finally over. Modric, Subasic, Vrsaljko and Livakovic (reserve keeper) came to theirs and my hometown Zadar yesterday evening. Some of the pictures.
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Vrsaljko was absolutely hammered.
Vrsaljko was absolutely hammered.
My friend was at afterparty with Vrsaljko, he got absolutely hammered, took over from DJ for half the night and in the end he puked all over toilets. Fecking legend!
Yeah, he actually posted a video the morning after the final also hammered, so he basically went on a 3-day drinking spree. Almost fell off the boat a few times yesterday, people had to hold him.
Well, I guess it's appropriate that they even manage to take the party to the extra-time.
Well, I guess it's appropriate that they even manage to take the party to the extra-time.
Behind Perisic were two croatia players so there was no real tap in opportunity actually.
Mbappe, who's pretty good at tap ins himself was right there between those two Croatian players, so absolutely a tap in opportunity.
Right behind Perisic were Strinic and Mandzukic who are pretty good and clearing the ball away. Mbappe is a bit further foward, so it’s not really a tap in opportunity
Actually, the next Croatian is moving away from the ball and after that you have Mandzukic next to a french player and then 2 other french players and a croatian. None of us can tell what would have happen.