That one was never going to happen. He's basically completely unnecessary, and would be expensive to CGI up.
Television The Wheel of Time - BOOKS and TV show thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED
- Thread starter Revan
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That one was never going to happen. He's basically completely unnecessary, and would be expensive to CGI up.
Except those characters in the first book are there to service character development for Rand. They already added in long scenes with Liandrin, Logain, Steppin, Karene etc. and they don't help anyones character development other than Lan. Not to mention Siuan, the head of the Blues and that lot.
It moved too fast because it doesn't take time to develop any of the main characters, not because there's too many characters.
The opening of that episode is just so 2021.
They were losing, badly. LTT was forced into a desperate move. That opening felt like like character assassination, arrogant prideful male doesn't listen to the much more capable woman and destroys the world with his toxic maleness. And calling him the Dragon Reborn? Did the writers of this shit just read a wiki summary?
They were losing, badly. LTT was forced into a desperate move. That opening felt like like character assassination, arrogant prideful male doesn't listen to the much more capable woman and destroys the world with his toxic maleness. And calling him the Dragon Reborn? Did the writers of this shit just read a wiki summary?
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But it seems like you want more character development for the main characters and more characters, and like I said it was already moving too quickly for some. Not to mention the obvious problem of there being 14 (or 15) very large books that will maximum get 8 seasons. If they wanted to get to the Eye in this season, they didn't really have time for what you're asking.
Logain and Steppin's episodes were (I believe) among the highest rated, and honestly some of the best acted. You can probably cut Steppin, but you can't really cut Logain. He's going to be hanging around for a while, so it makes sense to bring him up now. He also plays an important part highlighting the dangers of channelling men (this is also where Kerene comes in), his strength, which is less than the Dragon (and Nynaeve), and the response to being severed (which I reckon is happening to Siuan next season, and the weird probably fake-out with Moiraine at the end of this). He's also going to be hanging around the White Tower next season, and I think they're accelerating the Siuan coup to happen next season instead. I just hope it doesn't mean they are making Liandrin the new Elaida, but we'll see when Elayne shows up next season.
Liandrin could be cut, but then you would have to give Elaida her scenes, and that doesn't make much sense. Liandrin is important to show the divisions between the Ajah, and also to set her up for being Black and to hand the girls over to the Seanchan. Same with Maigan's scenes. She's ever so briefly introduced so that we know who she is, and then it will be more of a shock when she turns up a damane.
I was curious why they took this approach too, I didn't hate it but it didn't feel like they were in the middle of a war. I have a feeling we're gonna get more of LTT leading up to Rands madness, so maybe they are planting a seed and will show an actual war and some other bits before LTT and the 100 make their attempt. Maybe we are already at war but the city is largely unaffected or something. Either way it doesn't sum up any desperation or show just how much LTT's back was to the wall. I can't wait till we get his madness scene though.
Should also add I think they show will suit the books better as time progresses, saw a great post on reddit about how the books become less Rand focused as they progress and more ensemble focused so this will likely blow over.
Possibly. It's also the first season of a sci-fi or fantasy show, and traditionally those haven't been the strongest. The GoT one was quite strong, but that was because GoT was written almost like a TV script, because that's what GRRM really wanted to be (and was). So they could film it basically 1 to 1.
Yeah that one was weird. I liked it in the moment, but there were some weird things. Calling him Dragon Reborn is one of those changes that is totally ridiculous if you're a book reader, but completely without significance for a show watcher. I just hope they showed it like that to highlight the post-apocalyptic nature of WoT, and that they're later on going to show that there was an apocalyptic war going on at the same time. Otherwise LTT is just an asshole. Also what will Lanfear's role be there? She's the one who drilled the hole into the bore, after all (as far as our characters go).
Yeah also I don't think people remember just how different GoT was from the books at points, In hindsight series 1 is the only one close to the books and even that drove Westeros.org batshit crazy. I posted in the Witcher thread about how they would call out every single missed dialogue or slight change over on Westeros.org. I think fantasy tv just wasn't as insanely popular as it is now either, thrones only really exploded in season 3 iirc.
Oh yeah, I remember it as a book reader of A Song of Ice and Fire too. It was quite controversial, and didn't really become loved until a few seasons in. And then.. well, we all know what happened. At least in this case there's a completed series for them to butcher or not butcher.
Game of thrones captured lighting in a bottle by being "epic", full of memeable scenes, and being a big hit with the casuals and critics alike amongst other things. Don't think there will be something on that level for a fantasy show for a while. Also for a lot of book readers the signs it was going to shit were in the fourth season onwards while seasons 4-6 were probably it's peak popularity. So feck knows what the masses will flock to.
It was, from what I remember, a decades long war, for a society that had long moved part violence and war into a utopia of culture and learning. I have to hope you are correct about how they show this moving forward, but I don't trust this writing team to get it right.
On another note did they have Egwene healing death? Surely not. If so they are just destroying the lore and magic system for random "cool" moments. One of the best moments in the books is in Tear when Rand tries to re-animate a young girl who died in an attack and was told it was not possible.
I have to agree with Nimic that the additional Logain scenes were well done, maybe the best of this season, and one that Judkins had talked about beforehand as being excited to do. They were a strong addition, that also fit the core of the character and the world, so that does show the potential to be better. Hopefully the second season improves, not just the writing but the production which has been more than a little rough at times, ill befitting the budget they have.
I think she probably didn't heal death, because that would be an insane thing to add in, and not even make Nynaeve be the one to do it. Hopefully next season they add a line making it clear that she wasn't dead, just dying.
Yeah the Egwene thing was weird too, I think they're gonna say Nyneave was near death but not quite dead though she looked dead to me. Sanderson said there is one case of healing death in the books in AMOL but he left it ambiguous and open to reader interpretation. With that said its long after Rand trying to heal the girl and having death curable kinda nullifies the stakes imo and murders a potentially great scene.
Rand revives Lan.
I highly recommend the Dusty wheels video, Brandon starts off super positive about the episode but like us all as it goes on, you can see him start to flinch and go silent and think "wtf" at times. I find it interesting that he never got to give them feedback on episodes 7 and 8, he only got the screenplay after they were finished. I think 8 really could have used his expertise. He does also take a few honest shots at the book in the video.
Yes, I think most readers and even Jordan have issues with the ending of the TEOTW. It reads like a tacked on ending, not really working with the rest of the series, probably because at the time Jordan was not sure he would be successful enough to continue, so he had this section which could be taken as an ending of sorts if it was a standalone novel.
The sad part is that his janky stuff(and with Jordans' flaws accepted) is still better than what most most TV writers can produce.
New characters aren't the problem, as long as they serve a purpose. That's the thing, you don't get to know Morgase, Elaida, Elayne or Garth Bryne in in the first book anyway. Queens, princesses, advisors etc. have pre-defined characteristics you use to make other characters interact with them and have the audience understand, because people already know what queens are. By and large, characters who aren't the main one should be there to serve progress to the main character. We spent ages with Steppin for what? So we could be sad when he dies?
Instead of having some budget eating battle scene that looks like it came out of Hercules Legendary Journey's they could have just had Morgase and Elaida talk about Logain since he's brought to Caemlyn anyway. That way not only do you learn about the dangers of men channeling (heck, if you want to show off your taint effects have a quick flashback to him channeling) but also see Rand's immediate response to it and how he processes it.
Liandrin is fodder for next season anyway, there's very little reason to have her in now ahead of Elaida unless they're cutting her entirely, which would be pretty poor decision making.
I saw that too and I actually think it's a terrible take. Lots of the ensemble nature works because the characters around the expanding story are established. Trying to fit and expanding cast while also trying to do all the character development they've failed to do already is going to exacerbate the problem, not resolve it.
It's much harder to use the EF5 as furniture to add other characters too when you haven't established them already.
Watching this currently, quite interesting. If you don't want to sit through the entire thing, they spend the first 10 minutes and the last 20 minutes (or so they say) talking more generally, before and after the live episode.
Just saw ep 7. Great episode, building up to the finale nicely. The secret with all of fantasy is the characters and interpersonal relationships and they nailed that . Rands best episode of the series by far.
Posted this yesterday, Brandon does a great job on why Rand and Perrin are so hard to make work in this season. I also think his take on the end is fair and maybe harsher than someone being paid to help out would normally be. He seems like a sound but extremely nerdy dude whenever I hear him in conversation. I'd love to see a Stormlight adaptation with him strongly involved (after the books are completed)
When did we see the dark lord?
You don't need to spoiler things in here. We didn't see the dark lord, but we did see Ishamael. The show hasn't really done a good job at making a distinction between the two, but then again that was a thing in the books as well (Ba'alzamon). Rand thought he had killed the Dark One after TGH.
I can't imagine how confusing this must be for non book readers
Yeah I know. The reason that I spoilered it was because the person who I was replying to might not have know that that was Ishamael.
well I guess that wasn't the dark one then.
But whoever he was he looked like he was dressed in a Kanye West design.. I guess I was in the wrong thread for that though... cause everyone here knows who's whoI know what you mean. For a moment I thought wewell I guess that wasn't the dark one then.
were almost like Roland interacting with someone from the current ‘real’ world
Sorry man but this is the book spoiler thread. He's The Destroyer of Hope. He's the most powerful of the...well I guess that wasn't the dark one then.
Forsaken
well I guess that wasn't the dark one then.
Oh definitely, you should avoid this thread if you want to avoid spoilers. I'm sorry if I spoiled something (though that something happens in book 2 of 14
).Some of these little details that build the world, a little more about the forsaken, Saidan/Saidar, so much of the richness of the written material could have been there in place of CW level pointless Rand/Egwene/Perrin( you could argue there are a couple of lines in the book that back this up, but you have to really want to make it happen) love triangles, Steppen nonsense, the 4th oath "clever as a pike" cringe, lets get that melodrama going instead of world and character building.
10-12 episodes you maybe have time and space to add these things in but in an 8 episode run not so much.
10-12 episodes you maybe have time and space to add these things in but in an 8 episode run not so much.
I'm trying to get into it but it really lacks the ability to immerse you into the world that the good and great shows have.
The production quality and acting constantly remind me its a TV show.
The production quality and acting constantly remind me its a TV show.
"On your knees". Feck sake. Eight episodes and they're spending some two+ episodes on mostly unnecessary slow motion melodrama. Except maybe Thom Merrelin, who got three minutes screen time, not one character you go yes! I wan't to know more. Random changes to, I'm guessing, make it more digestible for the times we're living in. Can't anger the twitter mob. Waste of time. 4/10.
This is the worst of all possible takes about what is wrong with season 1.
Possibly
Can't be perfect. There's just so much. I liked Loial. But he hasn't really done anything yet. He's just therePossibly
Yeah Loial is good. I assume we'll get more of him once he goes off with Perrin. Hope so, anyway.
How do they put Nynaeve/Egwene back into a training story-line after they effectively destroyed a 50K trolloc army.They made them too strong, too early, and frankly if 5 non aes sedai can do that why has the tower not rocked up with a dozen full sisters and just levelled the Blight? Why do they even need the Dragon Reborn?
Except he is, or should be, dead. He was shanked with the ruby dagger which I'm pretty sure is death. Then again they just had Egwaine resurrect Nynaeve so who the feck cares about any of the rules since the showrunner doesn't.
Stop asking good questions. If you watch the clip above with Sanderson you can see how uncomfortable the whole scene made him.
Yep, standard TV writing horseshit with no thought of continuity or establishing and maintaining some level of logical consistency. The rule of cool, and as mentioned earlier they really have to retcon Egwene seemingly healing death or how do you establish any stakes or danger moving forward?
One of the most powerful scenes in the WoT is Rand trying to revive the young girl in the Stone. Even with Callandor he cannot do it and Moraine has to beg him to stop. MY guess is they will need to do some creative "errr....she was not dead, just ignore that her eyes were burned out holes....errr...her brain was fine."
That last episode was a disaster.
He isn't dead, that's confirmed. It's stupid, but there you go.