I have the complete opposite view as in Egwene gets progressively more annoying as a person and Nyn starts out as an annoying person and gets progressively better.
Television The Wheel of Time - BOOKS and TV show thread - SPOILERS ALLOWED
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I have the complete opposite view as in Egwene gets progressively more annoying as a person and Nyn starts out as an annoying person and gets progressively better.
Yes, she is awesome, the moments of Nynaeve and Rand together in the later novels are some of my favourites.
Anyway, a few rambling thoughts;
I hate, hate, what they are doing with Moraine and Lan, maybe there will be some pay off in later eps (which I won't watch, no really this time.) but it is the worst representation of them I could have imagined and a waste of the talent playing them.
They really love the Alanna Throuple but I was getting serious
Grandael
The Nynaeve
Accepted test
It really is someones fan fiction given a huge budget.
I have the complete opposite view as in Egwene gets progressively more annoying as a person and Nyn starts out as an annoying person and gets progressively better.
Tbf I'm in the middle of Winter's Heart rn and that's my impression at this point. My memory of the last few books is very poor - I might align more with you by the time I'm finished this re-read.
Agreed that Nynaeve has some badass moments.
I have the complete opposite view as in Egwene gets progressively more annoying as a person and Nyn starts out as an annoying person and gets progressively better.
I was about to say. I did flip a bit back on Egwene towards the end, viewing it from her perspective (she's the Amyrlin, she has to represent the Aes Sedai and their interests). Nynaeve turns out to be a badass, though.
It is, but if we can accept it as that I think we could enjoy it. I also think it was always going to be that. It's such a massive series, with very long books, thousands of named characters, lots of different threads (
), etc. Even the best possible adaptation would do things in we wouldn't necessarily like. Now clearly this has made some worse choices than that here and there, but I'm prepared to go with it if it continues like season 2 started. If it ends like season 1, I'm out, but until then I'll try to enjoy it for what it is.I mean, if you think about it, this way we're more in the dark about what's going to happen episode to episode.
Some hope now. Thought that was a pretty decent episode.
The absolute worst part was the 14 second fight scene with 19 camera cuts. But other than that I felt it had some pretty decent dialogue and everything made some amount of sense. Clearly they're making the forsaken "immortal" (or whatever) to get around the fact that so many of them get killed and come back as different people. I guess it only makes balefire even more important.
Read most of the series inmy teens, but remember being a big Perrin fan. Enjoyed that part of this episode. Even the Nynaeve part of the episode was alright. Having been mostly terrible previously
Episode 4 was really, really, bad.
Lan is just pathetic in this show.
Lan is just pathetic in this show.
No one saw 5th episode? Any reviews?
It was decent. Lanfear is good.
That was the best episode yet, by some distance. The ending was brilliant, the whole "pour me some water" thing. Really well acted by the girl who plays Egwene, you could clearly see the surprise and despair when she realized what it meant that she could do it.
Lots of good acting in that episode overall, and nothing felt superfluous. The guy playing Mat is really nailing it so far.
Lots of good acting in that episode overall, and nothing felt superfluous. The guy playing Mat is really nailing it so far.
Ah Nimic.. Have been trying to ignore this but people keep telling me that the last 2 eps are by far the best they have made.
I have watched neither of them.
I have watched neither of them.
The last few episodes have been good. Even the acting is better in this episode. It's like a different show from season 1 and beginning of season 2. Long may it last!
It's been very intense. Funny thing is this season is making the lotr series feel like a joke.
Yeah. They clearly don't have the budget of that, but the writing and particularly acting are a level above. There's some silly writing still, and some things are going to annoy book fans particularly, but it's much better than season 1 as @e.cantona said.
Renna in the show is nothing like what I imagined from the books, but I love the portrayal even so. The damane-suldam portrayal isn't as silly as it looked like it might be at the end of season 1. The collar makes sense, they're showing the relationship pretty well, and now they're getting the "not a person" aspect in there too.
Last couple of episodes have been decent. Still annoyed at what is happening with the Rand, Moiraine, and Lan story line. And also no Thom.
Apparently the actor who plays Thom had scheduling conflicts and will not appear in Season 2.
The Egwene-Renna scenes were great. I remember Renna being cruel in the books and she started quite kind with Egwene, even letting her keep her name, but soon she became a bitch to her.
Lan and Moiraine have been changed for the bad. Lan looks like a total loser and Moiraine also is being a cnut (she was my favorite in the books). Her stilling also has happened too early (she got pseudo-stilled at the end of the fifth book).
Dunno about Elayne yet. I thought she was more playful in the books but she seems here like Rand, very boring. Avienddha was quite good in that episode. Min, don't know what to make of her yet.
Lan and Moiraine have been changed for the bad. Lan looks like a total loser and Moiraine also is being a cnut (she was my favorite in the books). Her stilling also has happened too early (she got pseudo-stilled at the end of the fifth book).
Dunno about Elayne yet. I thought she was more playful in the books but she seems here like Rand, very boring. Avienddha was quite good in that episode. Min, don't know what to make of her yet.
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This season has been good. Honestly even season 1 wasn't that bad, it clearly had some issues because of covid and one of the actors suddenly leaving and them having to change things around but it was still an enjoyable watch for the most part. But clearly this season has been several steps above. Amazon seems to be doing no promo for this at all though. Obviously strikes have been happening but they can still do stuff to promote it themselves. So it's kinda hard to get invested because it feels they'll probably cancel it once they get season 3 out. They don't really let shows build and gain an audience over time with these streaming services.
Saw an interview with some of the cast and they've talked about how this season is more how they envisioned the show to be which is good to hear.
Naturally they're gonna have to change things from the book, they can't include every character or every storyline, and the showrunner also said that they had to make some unforeseen changes to season 1 that they've had to deal with in writing season 2 and 3. That's the nature of adaptation. Just another turn of the wheel.
Don't really get the Lan is a loser thing but to each their own.
I just hope this show can gain momentum with the audience so that we can actually get a finished show and story
Saw an interview with some of the cast and they've talked about how this season is more how they envisioned the show to be which is good to hear.
Naturally they're gonna have to change things from the book, they can't include every character or every storyline, and the showrunner also said that they had to make some unforeseen changes to season 1 that they've had to deal with in writing season 2 and 3. That's the nature of adaptation. Just another turn of the wheel.
Don't really get the Lan is a loser thing but to each their own.
I just hope this show can gain momentum with the audience so that we can actually get a finished show and story
It's better than the last series. Still not convinced by the acting of the Egwene and Rand characters though.
Is it just me or does anyone else think Natasha O'Keeffe would have made a great Yennefer on the Witcher? Has that wise but seductive thing down to a tee with the role she plays in this. Hadn't considered her for that role after seeing her in Peaky Blinders etc but man what a missed opportunity that now seems. Granted - she kinda dodged a bullet.
I'll give her the last episode but when she's not going full on emo I don't get it she seems wooden then.
Lan using the book line "What ever comes, face it on your feet" then Rand spending the rest of the episode on his knees is certainly a choice. But very typical of this show, throw a bone to the book readers with a key line then rip all the consequences and context from it.
As I mentioned in the other thread they really need to reconsider how they are portraying Rand, Mat and Perrin. Effectively the 3 main characters in the books but shallowly drawn with so little agency in this while they are expanding Lanfear, Liandrin and others. The male characters are abysmal as a group.
Having said that Lanfear is easily the best thing about this series as nonsensical as some of their choices may have been.
As I mentioned in the other thread they really need to reconsider how they are portraying Rand, Mat and Perrin. Effectively the 3 main characters in the books but shallowly drawn with so little agency in this while they are expanding Lanfear, Liandrin and others. The male characters are abysmal as a group.
Having said that Lanfear is easily the best thing about this series as nonsensical as some of their choices may have been.
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I've not read the books but Mat in p-articular seems a waste of screen time so far in this.
Why work on making a decent Mat when you can spend time on Damodred family drama with made up characters, or Aes Sedai/Warder threesomes.
Additionally Lan had his best moment in the series when they finally let him be the mentor that he was in the books and allowed his relationship with Rand to breathe. Of course they had to feck it up by making him a one power expert ffs. He has taught Rand more about the one Power than he has the Sword. For Fecks Sake. What is this shite? Rand is terrible, pathetic and weak (compare his lack of backbone to how they show Egwene) effectively has people murdered via Lanfear, yeah we got a cool looking scene of Lanfear strutting through a set chewing scenery so who cares eh.
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Having never read the books I think the second season has been a big step up from the first. I still prefer some of the other fantasy shows in general but this has got potential and I’m definitely going to stick with it.
SPOILERS (in case someone went into the wrong thread)
Some sizeable departures from the books in the finale, but nothing like the season 1 finale. Unlike that one, I also thought all of this basically worked.
It was always going to be near impossible to depict the part metaphorical, part physical Falme fight from the books, so this was a fine solution.
Rand's wound didn't come from Ishy, but from the shadow dagger - making the "Mat stabs Rand" vision true. Elayne (half-way) healing Rand instead of Nynaeve makes sense, to give her something to do and sort of introduce her to Rand. Clearly they're going to make her the Rand love interest. No way they're going with all three. We also finally got to see some Warder badassery. I still have some complaints about the editing of the fight scenes (too many cuts), but we got some good scenes at least.
I actually loved the Heroes scene. Mat being a hero is a departure from the books, but I actually thought he was for almost the entire series. Uno being one? Sure, why not.
Some sizeable departures from the books in the finale, but nothing like the season 1 finale. Unlike that one, I also thought all of this basically worked.
It was always going to be near impossible to depict the part metaphorical, part physical Falme fight from the books, so this was a fine solution.
Rand's wound didn't come from Ishy, but from the shadow dagger - making the "Mat stabs Rand" vision true. Elayne (half-way) healing Rand instead of Nynaeve makes sense, to give her something to do and sort of introduce her to Rand. Clearly they're going to make her the Rand love interest. No way they're going with all three. We also finally got to see some Warder badassery. I still have some complaints about the editing of the fight scenes (too many cuts), but we got some good scenes at least.
I actually loved the Heroes scene. Mat being a hero is a departure from the books, but I actually thought he was for almost the entire series. Uno being one? Sure, why not.
Honestly, if you're a book reader and you still think this was rubbish, just stop watching. It'll just make you upset, because it's not ever going to be closer to the books.
Who is this Rand guy and why is everybody falling over themselves about him? He spends more time on his knees shielded than doing anything.
In this version he is the Disney princess who needs to be saved by everyone around him. Early books Rand needs tons of help but also has amazing moments of demonstrating his power. This show is actively avoiding giving them to him.
Maybe next season, but then we said that after the first season.
This season had plenty of decent moments but it hates giving the male characters any independent success, not seen many shows that are as blatant in minimizing the male characters. 5.5/10, massive improvement on last season and a decent watch at times, I hated it.
I actually like the show. I think that most of the characters have had good growth arcs except Rand. Perrin and Matt to a lesser extent have grown as characters, it's just Rand who seems to be the same clueless kid he was when he left Emond's Field.
Rand’s actor and his arch in the show has been shit. Ishy has also been shit. Lanfear, Moiraine and Liandhrin are the only characters played by good actresses in the entire show.
Forced myself to watch season 2 after hating season 1, and finally got to the end. Some observations:
Positives:
- Rosamund Pike was far and away the best thing in season 1, and that’s still the case in season 2.
-American accents for the Seanchan was a clever touch (although it does kind of contrast with the confusing mix of accents elsewhere - why do peasants Egwene and Rand sound posher than the Daughter Heir Elayne?)
-production values were MUCH better this season. Costumes actually looked lived in and not just taken off a rack immediately before shooting started.
Negatives:
-Why oh why, when you only have 8 episodes to adapt a massive fantasy epic book, do you waste sooo much time on pointless scenes with pointless characters? I absolutely get that any adaptation, particularly of modern fantasy books, will involve cutting out a lot of stuff. But my main complaint is what they’ve added, rather than what they’ve taken away. How many scenes of boring Lan being boring with the other boring warders did we actually need? The whole sub-plot with Moiraine’s sister and nephew? That links to my main complaint of S1 - despite being played by the best actor, Moiraine simply should not be the focus of this story. At this point, the main characters should be the EF5, with Moiraine the Gandalf-like mentor figure.
-And this meant that there was far too little time devoted to important stuff, like explaining the significance of the Horn of Valere. This in turn meant that the Horn blowing scene was a total anticlimax, and the irony of Artur Hawkwing fighting the Seanchan wasn’t even acknowledged.
-Mat has always been my favourite character in the books, and I hate the way they’ve adapted him, basically reducing him to a glorified extra. By having him healed so early, back in S1, they missed the opportunity to make his story a real focus in S2, with the obvious parallels to addiction, and giving Rand and the others personal motivation to track down Padan Fain (who has also been reduced to an extra here). The forced recasting of Mat was obviously a reason for his story being sidelined in S1, but they had the chance to put things right in S2, and they didn’t.
-Ishamael was just not a compelling villain. He’s supposed to be this terrifying, demonic figure who is constantly haunting Rand, winding him up and driving him mad - until Rand is finally able to turn the tables on him at Falme. But in this show he’s just a man, and a pretty underwhelming, whiny man, with a really nasal voice. I also didn’t like how they had him working openly with the Seanchan. Didn’t make any sense at all.
-And I’m caught between wanting the show to focus more on Rand ie the main character, and not wanting to see more of him because the actor is just so bad.
-There are also little things that annoy me, like characters referring to LTT as ‘the Dragon Reborn’ - no, he was the Dragon, Rand is the Dragon Reborn. It doesn’t really matter, but it just shows a lack of care and a misunderstanding of the source material.
So overall, S2 was clearly better than S1, but in some ways I’m even more disappointed in it because it’s become clear that it’s not going to be the adaptation I wanted it to be. I can understand the need to make changes and cut out a lot of the superfluous stuff, especially in the later books, where Jordan got stuck in a holding pattern for ages. But the first three books were such a great, and relatively tightly written trilogy, there wasn’t really any need to make such big changes.
Positives:
- Rosamund Pike was far and away the best thing in season 1, and that’s still the case in season 2.
-American accents for the Seanchan was a clever touch (although it does kind of contrast with the confusing mix of accents elsewhere - why do peasants Egwene and Rand sound posher than the Daughter Heir Elayne?)
-production values were MUCH better this season. Costumes actually looked lived in and not just taken off a rack immediately before shooting started.
Negatives:
-Why oh why, when you only have 8 episodes to adapt a massive fantasy epic book, do you waste sooo much time on pointless scenes with pointless characters? I absolutely get that any adaptation, particularly of modern fantasy books, will involve cutting out a lot of stuff. But my main complaint is what they’ve added, rather than what they’ve taken away. How many scenes of boring Lan being boring with the other boring warders did we actually need? The whole sub-plot with Moiraine’s sister and nephew? That links to my main complaint of S1 - despite being played by the best actor, Moiraine simply should not be the focus of this story. At this point, the main characters should be the EF5, with Moiraine the Gandalf-like mentor figure.
-And this meant that there was far too little time devoted to important stuff, like explaining the significance of the Horn of Valere. This in turn meant that the Horn blowing scene was a total anticlimax, and the irony of Artur Hawkwing fighting the Seanchan wasn’t even acknowledged.
-Mat has always been my favourite character in the books, and I hate the way they’ve adapted him, basically reducing him to a glorified extra. By having him healed so early, back in S1, they missed the opportunity to make his story a real focus in S2, with the obvious parallels to addiction, and giving Rand and the others personal motivation to track down Padan Fain (who has also been reduced to an extra here). The forced recasting of Mat was obviously a reason for his story being sidelined in S1, but they had the chance to put things right in S2, and they didn’t.
-Ishamael was just not a compelling villain. He’s supposed to be this terrifying, demonic figure who is constantly haunting Rand, winding him up and driving him mad - until Rand is finally able to turn the tables on him at Falme. But in this show he’s just a man, and a pretty underwhelming, whiny man, with a really nasal voice. I also didn’t like how they had him working openly with the Seanchan. Didn’t make any sense at all.
-And I’m caught between wanting the show to focus more on Rand ie the main character, and not wanting to see more of him because the actor is just so bad.
-There are also little things that annoy me, like characters referring to LTT as ‘the Dragon Reborn’ - no, he was the Dragon, Rand is the Dragon Reborn. It doesn’t really matter, but it just shows a lack of care and a misunderstanding of the source material.
So overall, S2 was clearly better than S1, but in some ways I’m even more disappointed in it because it’s become clear that it’s not going to be the adaptation I wanted it to be. I can understand the need to make changes and cut out a lot of the superfluous stuff, especially in the later books, where Jordan got stuck in a holding pattern for ages. But the first three books were such a great, and relatively tightly written trilogy, there wasn’t really any need to make such big changes.
Brandon Sanderson, who wrote the last few books watching the last episode.
Watch the episode next to it. His complaints are similar to mine. I also agree with the things he likes.
Season 2 was much better. Quick comment in that either Nynaeve was the worst Wisdom ever or the writers La k basic common sense. Who would push an arrow through a wound without first breaking off the fletching portion???
Yeah that was jarring. There were still some problems with the show but overall I enjoyed the season very much.
This is the biggest issue for me as having not read the books. The actor and the character are rubbish.