The US Democratic Party - The Road to 2026 and 2028
- Thread starter rio's upper lip
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It’s amazing how they don’t even pretend to want to help. This party is done. Completely done. There’s no person in this party with enough power who actually understands and wants to change the situation. They will just continue as usual, wait for the next elections and will get angry again, when nobody trust them and votes for them.
They really are the slightly lesser of two incredibly shitty evils.
Senator Warner: Democrats’ ‘brand is really bad’
https://www.politico.eu/article/us-senator-mark-warner-democrats-brand-really-bad-msc-us-election/
That’s an exaggeration. I remember the days when people thought that Republicans won’t win more elections.
Harris came within 0.9-1.7% of winning MI, WI and PA. That’s a manageable deficit. American elections are decided on the margins, and a Democrat candidate in a reasonable environment can win.
I have issues with the party, and think that some forces there go too far at times, but the party still has good support and can win elections.
Good to read a more sober take on this issue. Barring any shenanigans (which is a very big worry tbh) from the GOP I'd expect the Dems to have a decent midterm and be very competitive in 28 as Trump is going to leave behind an absolute shitshow.
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I don’t think anything about what you two are writing is sober. It’s merely the very kind of thinking that led the US into this situation. The US has no actual political opposition to Trumpism, because the dems are refusing to provide just that.
And it doesn’t matter if the dems are competitive or win elections. The second they get into power, they will do what they always do: a little cosmetics around the worst issues and otherwise they will just keep on with the same course that allowed Trump to happen.
The reason they lost this last election is that many of their voters have, with every right and due to plenty of reasons, lost any faith in them. So far they are doing absolutely nothing to regain it.
The fact that some of their politicians refuse to see Musk as what he is, an enemy to democracy worldwide, and instead want to work with him, is nothing short of a kick in the balls of every American suffering from this administration.
That's not really a good argument. Dems getting into power prevents Project 2025 from happening (which most of us screamed bloody murder about but posters here just said "nah won't be as bad hurr durr). It also prevents handing Ukraine's ass to Putin, as well as bailing on Europe. You wouldn't have a Dem VP cosying up to the AfD either - you know what's at stake there.
The dismantling of Beuracacy and any checks and balances which are happening now is exactly what we told you about before the election. The agenda we all warned about is unfolding in front of our very eyes - so to label the Dems as "the slightly lesser of two incredibly shitty evils" is grossly irresponsible and wrong in my opinion.
And the post I quoted was about a democratic politician who called to work together with Elon Musk, the main driver behind the current GOP‘s agenda. While his party is doing nothing of any meaning to stop project 2025 from happening. That to me, is the slightly lesser of two evils.
In the American political landscape, that hasn’t been a functional democracy for at least since the aftermath of 9/11, but likely well before that, they are merely a fig leaf for the oligarchs and the companies ruling the country. They serve to create the impression that there’s choice, while their politics and actions are merely cosmetic in nature, do absolutely nothing to challenge the incredibly wealthy elites exploiting the country and therefor perpetuate a steadily declining status quo. For decades now they have done nothing of note to improve the situation for the average American worker. Even though they had plenty of chances. They would rather work with guys like Musk, instead of championing the ideas of their small left wing. That alone shows you where they stand and whom they serve.
I think it’s fare more irresponsible to pretend that voting for them will change things for the better. They won’t. They don’t want to. You’d need a new party for that. The sooner Americans realise that, the better.
What are they supposed to do? It seems like Trump doesn't have to be legally accountable so he can just power through his agenda. Unless you want Chuck Schumer to physically wrestle Trump in the Oval there's not much they can do right now other than try to rally towards the midterms and 28.
If they can’t do anything about it, why vote for them?
You are not understanding what I am saying. You have to process what I am telling you: the Dems cannot stop Trump RIGHT NOW because enough people DID NOT vote for them. They do not hold the White House, they do not hold the House, they do not hold the Senate. SCOTUS is 6-3 in favor of GOP. What do you want them to do? Do you want Obama to storm into the Oval? If people HAD VOTED for them ALL of this nonsense would not be happening. Do we understand each other now?
That’s some amazing logic.
I'm done for today!They were in office for four years before Trump was voted. Within these four years, they faced two defining challenges: assisting Ukraine and bracing American institutions for an attempt at a hostile takeover. To strengthen them in a way that would make things difficult for the GOP.
They have failed at both these things, miserably. It took the GOP 4 weeks to destroy something the Dems had four years to build up. They were incapable of protecting the courts. They were incapable of holding Trump accountable for obvious crimes. They were incapable of ensuring lasting support for Ukraine. They were incapable of doing anything of note, to protect the people who depend on them, whose votes they take for granted.
And after failing at all these things, they are failing to muster meaningful opposition. There are no protests organised by them. There are no effective media campaigns. There isn’t any meaningful attempt at unifying their voters, to create a community that could fight back on what is happening. Nothing of that sort is happening on a meaningful scale. Instead, their politicians are calling for the party to work with the richest man in the world, the embodiment of American oligarchy. They are saying we shouldn’t villainise the man, who bought the social network with the most political influence there is, for the sole reason of trying to destroy American democracy.
They are calling to work with this man, they are being this incompetent and unwilling in protecting American institutions and its citizens, after being incredibly effective in their attempts to destroy any leftist movements within their parties. After destroying any attempts of people within their party to actually demand and try to implement policies that might change the underlying issues that are destroying the American working class. They are nothing less than a fig leaf for the American oligarchy. They are the slightly lesser of two evils.
But yeah, talk yourself into believing I wrote what I wrote because I’m too dumb to realise that they aren’t in power right now and therefore can’t stop Trump right now. It’s always nice to see people immediately assume the absolut worst about someone, so you can feel better about yourself. Nice character.
If the US had voted for the dems, the GOP would have had to wait four years for the dems to feck things up further and then they would have done the exact same things they are doing now. All voting democratic does is slowing down a process they have absolutely no intention to stop, because many of their parties leaders are as complicit in this process as the GOP and are benefitting in similar ways.
Yeah, it’s funny how dumb I am.
At least you can recognize the humor of it.
I don't think it's fair to just bold that statement and ignore the rest. The broader point is that Dems being in power doesn't seem to actually limit the likelihood in the long run of those things you list happening, because they can't win every election and, given the GOP are increasingly fascist in nature to the approval of the US voting public, it becomes a matter of delaying the inevitable rather than any actual political change. The GOP are emboldened to basically do anything right now, and the Democrats listed above seem happy to kind of nod and say "they've got a point."
If they were fair, they couldn’t laugh this smugly and feel superior. That’s all that matters.
I don’t. At all. I think nothing about this situation is funny. I think it’s deeply concerning that there are Americans still believing a party whose members are calling to work with Elon Musk has any interest whatsoever in improving the lives of its voters. I think that’s disillusioning and shows how little understanding people have of this situation. I think that’s worrying and not at all funny.
Nothing but hyperbole.
How many Democrats have called to "work with" Musk? Are you only referring to that tweet by Ritchie Torres? That tweet is also from last year. Look, I don't think I am superior to you, I just think you have a very simplistic black and white way of looking at the world. The Democrats have their flaws - but I (and most other posters here) live in the real world and have a pragmatic outlook. They are America's only hope and we better hope to shit that they can win in 28 because even 43's terms are starting to look bloody good in comparison to what's going on right now...
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There is no argument from me that the current Dem party is not fit for purpose when it come to acting as a progressive and liberal force for change. The desire for power and greed means the vast majority of them lack any actual convictions, which absolutely is on show right now.
However, even those fake or malleable convictions still offered an alternative to the horrors of P2025 and everything else that has/is going to happen.
Where I think my frustration come from is that this sentiment on here, almost entirely from those not living in this country, that there is no value in choosing to do the slow work of gradual change by preventing the destruction of the entire system and of much of the gradual gains we have seen over the past decades.
Reproductive Freedom? Gone or regressed
Voting Rights? Regression
Civil Rights? Regression
Healthcare? Soon to be on the way down
Climate? Good luck
Belief in science? Being dismantled
Would the Dems have given us everything we wanted in those categories? Nope, not as they currently are, but we could have solidified our gains and pushed some of those areas forward. Now? Gone.
However, even those fake or malleable convictions still offered an alternative to the horrors of P2025 and everything else that has/is going to happen.
Where I think my frustration come from is that this sentiment on here, almost entirely from those not living in this country, that there is no value in choosing to do the slow work of gradual change by preventing the destruction of the entire system and of much of the gradual gains we have seen over the past decades.
Reproductive Freedom? Gone or regressed
Voting Rights? Regression
Civil Rights? Regression
Healthcare? Soon to be on the way down
Climate? Good luck
Belief in science? Being dismantled
Would the Dems have given us everything we wanted in those categories? Nope, not as they currently are, but we could have solidified our gains and pushed some of those areas forward. Now? Gone.
This is absolutely bang on, and exactly what I am talking about. I honestly think that the attitude that we are seeing on display (and to be fair, some of it is kind of justified) demonstrates a lack of knowledge on US domestic affairs. I am heartbroken on behalf of the American People due to these exact reasons you are listing here. This is the very reason why I stated last year that even a "senile" Biden is 1000 x better than Trump/the GOP of today because we all knew what was going to happen.
Weird way of showing that. Especially since your post is patronising.
And I think what you are saying is simplistic and ignorant of reality. If you genuinely believe the Dems are your only hope, you should hold them to higher standards. Because so far, they are failing. They’ve failed to prepare American institutions for this situation, even though the GOP basically told them what was going to happen with project 2025. They have failed to work on the economical issues that are causing the discontent, the GOP is exploiting with their racist platform, and instead stole some of their talking points. A party that once opposed the wall between Mexico and the US as the ridiculous idea that it is, is trying to brag with its high numbers of deportations in the last four years, because they believe that would help get them elected. That’s the party you trust to fight Trump. A party that in many ways actually stole ideas from him, because they thought it might get them elected.
The Democrats don’t have flaws. These perceived flaws are a feature. They don’t fight for you or your interests and screw up here and there. They pretend to fight for your interests and every now and then throw you a little bone so you keep voting for them.
If the dems are what you think they are, the one hope to fight ascending authoritarianism or even fascism, then why the feck are you demanding so little from them and why in the world are you letting them get away with doing even less than the bare minimum? And what are they doing right now to fight those in power? What protests are they organising? How are they organising grass roots support? Where are they working with unions and the like, to coordinate resistance? Where are the strikes to fight the corporations that are so gleefully cheering Musk and Trump on? Where is all that? Opposition work is more than trying to get elected next time. Especially in a situation like right now.
the one thing people need to do in a situation like this is to get organised. As quickly as possible. The dems are the ones with the means to do so. And they aren’t doing it. So maybe stop defending them and face the reality, that they are letting you down. Because that’s what it looks like right now.
Pretty sure those advocating for "slow work of gradual change" are middle class citizens with a nice comfy life. They don't care about the big majority that can't keep waiting for the radical changes needed.
The only radical changes happening are going the opposite way of what is needed, so...tell me what is better? Slow and gradual changes from Dem admins or pure carnage from the GOP?
So, if you really want to make changes, you can make them happen.
Who had 4 years to make changes happen and did nothing?
Difficult to make radical changes with a 50/50 Senate. Not saying it would have happened even with a super majority, but that was never on the table in the first place.
I'm not advocating for it as the best solution, I'm saying it is what we have to work with. I mean, I would fecking love it if we could do with guns what you guys did down there, but there is not the political will to do so here, and addressing your newest comment, the "big majority" comment is a false one. There is no "big majority" in the US when it comes to voting. Sure, there are massive majorities when it comes to topics (healthcare, education, etc.) but when it comes to voting for candidates who champion those topics half of that "majority" votes for the other candidate.
It wouldn't make a difference, the Dems had a Supermajoirty under Obama and did jack shit. As I said above, the party is not fit for purpose and change is slow because it is made on the margins. In the US change is usually due to erosion, of barriers, not an earthquake that destroys them.
The Dems has a supermajority for two years only, during which they had to get out of the biggest financial crisis since the Great Depression and when they made the Affordable Care Act happen. While being in two wars that the previous administration left them to deal with, and the ever increasing crisis of terrorism. While having a Supreme Court that was 5-4 towards GOP.
I would say that they did extremely well during those two years.
You know what they could do to change things? Run with leftist candidates with a clearly leftist agenda. Provide an actual alternative to the radical right wing agenda of the GOP. Create a platform that actually promotes change, that tries to redistribute wealth, improve healthcare and education, decrease the prison population and so on.
They don’t. Instead they run candidates that are centre right by American standards even, and right wing by the standards of many European countries. They focus on the boogeyman of immigration themselves, instead of trying to protect those people. They are constantly creating a corridor so narrow for political discourse, that the things I’ve just mentioned don’t even become part of the discussion.
Try to see politics as a negotiation. The thing you negotiate with are ideals, ideas or even certain policies. Now one partner in this negotiation, the GOP, is bringing a bunch of right wing ideas to the table. Now the dems are joining them in the negotiation. They claim to work for the average worker and so on. What do they bring to table? Centre right ideas and policies. What is the result of these negotiations? Surprise, it’s a right wing mess. Who would have thought?
This has gone on for decades. And through those decades, the situation has gotten worse and worse for Americans. The poorest are getting poorer and they become more and more. The middle class is bleeding out. Health care and education are getting worse. All because they are themselves advocating for the neoliberal ideas that are causing all this. Because they have no real interest in changing the situation. Because they are, as I’ve said, the slightly lesser of two evils.
The dems helped to create the issues that provided the foundation for the success Trump is having. And they are refusing to do anything about them. Voting democratic means nothing more than slowing the process down a little bit.
Unless the voters don’t force them to drift towards the left and they start doing something meaningful, you’re better off focussing your hope on someone else.
That's my point.
There is a big majority (80% that only owns 14% of the wealth) in terms of social issues. They all desire access to housing, education, healthcare, security, etc.
Because none of the two parties are giving solutions for those issues, voters divide like football fans divide.
To give solution to those issues means dismantling corporations and ultra rich power, and neither party will do that.
If there were some party that would really wants to tackle these issues, they would do better than just split the vote 50-50.
That would give you a GOP super majority every time, in the UK that gives you a Tory PM every time - that's the real world
But your point is just wrong.
While the Dem position might not be great and is pretty scattered, the GOP platform is anything but that. They literally wrote it down and published it. They told us they were going to defund education, crush the social safety net, dismantle what passes for public health coverage here. And still they garnered the votes to gain all branches of government. And then they started doing all those things they told us they would do.
And as long as everyone believes this, the American oligarchy can continue to exploit its citizens without any issues.
The left is struggling world over against the extreme right wing strongman bigoted agenda, and I think the need of the hour and that includes the US and the Democratic Party is a leader of the masses - someone with charisma and the ability to connect and deliver messages to the lowest common denominator. Because the extreme rights agenda everywhere (divide and rule, appeal to the majority, they are taking away your jobs and brining crime etc) is fairly easy, it requires less effort and the counter can’t be banal speakers who only intellectuals understand.
What have the dems literally wrote down then to counter?
Have they even try to offer basic stuff like a universal basic income to all citizens?
Nope. they don't offer solutions because they work for the enemy, not the people.
Why leave the republicans with the populist rhetoric? Why can't democrats do the same? after all they are supposedly the party of the people.
edit. as for the bolded part. The big majority that I speak off hardly read anything like that. All they heard was Trump was gonna clean the corruption of the government, get rid of the illegal immigrants, etc. A simple message that anyone can understand.
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Don't Democrats generally have good or reasonable policy goals but the Republicans block a lot?
Sometimes they do. There are good elements and good politicians within this party, after all. Some of them are genuinely trying.
But that is part of what I was saying earlier. They are so afraid to be seen as leftist, that they publicly shy away from any leftist rhetoric and therefor fail to create the popular support necessary to implement ambitious laws.