He once criticised De Gea for being weak on crosses.
The ugly face of racism in English football
- Thread starter Bury Red
- Start date
What do you mean by the bolded?
Neville did say that he is ashamed that he did not do anything when his teammates were getting racially abused. That says a lot more about him than the idiotic anchor who wants to have a balanced view on the other side. Is there another side to racism? Racism is racism. Racial abuse is racial abuse.
Even in our non-western countries it is extremely common to insult each other by calling 'donkey', we people of color (meh as internet calls us these days) in our own countries use that A LOT. I don't believe this case has anything to do with racism, its more about politeness and good luck with having that. Actually not calling someone 'donkey' because they have different skin color is a bit discriminatory since you categorize and behave someone with different color differently hehe.
Whilst I agree with your general point about any level of abuse and tribalism not being a good thing, comparing the wearing of an "I hate Scousers" t shirt is not meaningfully comparable to society's racism issues, it is clear that successful political movements of the last of the last half decade have fuelled racism and nationalism and the SNP are clearly not racist.
I still don’t understand what you mean by your first paragraph. Are you trying to say England is the least racist country in the world?
Been racist towards Scousers, apparently.
For the record, that would be speciesism, not racism.
Tottenham Hotspur said:
Fair enough. Very much doubt he just made it up though. Not that they're saying he did but the BBC headline seems to needlessly infer they are.
Maybe he misheard. Who knows but Spurs name has been dragged through the mud over this & the media & G Neville went OTT during the game when actually it transpires nothing racist was said
What? How was spurs’ name dragged through the mud? People aren’t stupid. People are well aware one Spurs fan doesn’t speak for the masses.
And that doesn’t prove nothing racist was said. It just means there isn’t any conclusive evidence to say there was, that’s how the justice system works. If there’s no audio/cctv and nobody comes forward the police/cps don’t charge.
Also I’d go as far as saying that the wording used by Spurs in relation to police findings is not what would be used by the metropolitan police and is a bit naughty by the club. “They can find no evidence of racial abuse”. Met police would never use that wording because of its implications. The crime would be closed under insufficient evidence to proceed and that’s it.
It’s an unfortunate incident all round & maybe Rudiger misheard probably but they brought in lip readers and all sorts of technology to see but nothing.
All I’m saying is I watched that game live and half of it was spent saying how racism is becoming more relevant, how shameful it was ,3 announcements over the tannoy yet it transpires nothing happened.
Like I say unfortunate incident but I feel the media went way ott before anything could be proven. In the City game it was obvious there was a racist cretin so by all means go all in then, but on this occasion it was very ott
I don’t see the problem with warning people about it over the tannoy to be honest. The overall reaction was also taking into account other incidents, IT IS a problem, just because on this occasion there’s not been evidence to support it doesn’t stop it being one. I also watched the game and do not recall half the game being about racism ‘becoming relevant’. Strange wording you’re using there btw.
You also keep saying nothing happened but you don’t know this. Do you know how many crimes get closed because there’s insufficient evidence? Thousands upon thousands on a daily basis. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.
"We can't find evidence to prove something happened" isn't the same as "nothing happened". It hasn't transpired that nothing racist was said.
I'm not sold on that explanation. Why would the dissatisfaction and anger be so misplaced as to turn into racism (e.g. against black people)?
I don't think he made it up for a second. I think he thought he heard racist abuse.
I did find it strange though that in the age of smart phones, TV cameras everywhere and in a new stadium where CCTV is almost ubiquitous, nothing was found whatsoever. Nor did any of the other players hear anything (and I have friends who sit near where the incident was supposed to happen).
I think the situation was heated after the Son sending off. He was unsurprisingly getting a lot of boos and I'm sure, in the heat of the moment, pumped up, misheard it as something else.
I mean, this is something totally different thought right?
If I'm pickpocketed on the street or someone assaults me in my own home or someone is raped in a club toilet.....those crimes may not be solved because there aren't witnesses or vide evidence of things happening.
We're talking about one of the biggest games of the season, with TV cameras everywhere, CCTV cameras everywhere from the club and 62,000 witnesses. Amongst all those fans, amongst all the smartphones they hold, amongst all the TV cameras, amongst all the CCTV, amongst the other 21 players on the pitch, the benches....and Rudiger was the only one to hear anything? We even employed lip readers to go through the footage.
Again, I'm not saying he made it up, I'm sure he thinks he heard it, and in that case, I fully support him going over to the ref and the ref telling the announcers to make a statement. It is better to be safe for sure.
But this isn't a small crime on the street, it is a hugely watched event so I don't understand how it would have been missed, especially if, as some media outlets were falling over themselves to say after the event, it was whole sections of the crowd, rather than even 1 or 2 people.
And of course the reaction ended up being OTT, in hindsight. The commentary did shift to racism. Neville talked about it after. Downing street got involved. I know what I read at the time but even the quickest search is bringing up articles like this:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/...e-as-antonio-ruediger-reports-abuse-j7cgs3qp8
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50887592
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/f...-Rudiger-did-Reality-victims-ending-dock.html
So a lot of the focus after the game became about that, rather than the absolutely shocking performance we put in or the very good one Chelsea did. IN a way, the damage is already done. Again, I do not blame Rudiger for this at all but the media, which I mentioned at the time of the incident.
Or maybe he was correct in what he heard and no other supporter wants to grass on another, who knows. A friend of mine was in the Shed end at Chelsea when Avram was manager and some of the so called fans were giving him vile Anti-Semitic abuse. My friend complained to no avail. No other fans wanted to get involved.
It’s a sad state of affairs all round.
I would accept that if we were in the 50s. But we're in 2020, with TV cameras and CCTV pretty much covering every inch of the new ground now.
Even if the fans are dicks and don't want to say anything about fellow fans, I'd have expected something to come up from one of the cameras.
Or maybe we think that nothing can be missed in this day and age when there’s enough evidence to show that things can.
Fair enough, I'm not sure I would personally agree. I can't think of many racist incidents recently where literally no evidence has been found at all. Either someone (or some people) visibly or audibly chanting or mimicking certain horrible actions or words, throwing certain things etc. And certainly not in new stadiums where CCTV is pretty ubiquitous.
And I'm not even doing this on a partisan basis either, there will clearly be racists in Spurs' fanbase just as there is in any fanbase (ie Aubameyang incident, the vile Adebayor chants etc etc).
There's obviously a chance that he misheard because he's in a stadium with 60k people in it, most of them shouting and screaming different things at the same time.
was there ever any outcome to the investigation on the bloke who was arrested after the last Manc derby?
Possible. Also very possible that someone did a monkey chant or something similar and it simply isn't possible to prove or locate from the footage.
It's easier for me to believe there would be 1 idiot in a crowd of thousands of people than to believe someone would imagine they heard something.
Either way if the club's done all it can you can't ask or expect them to do anything else.
Haven't parsed through it all but was it something he heard ? Didn't he mimic "monkey gestures" to the ref ?
I read from various people on Twitter that Spurs fans have a chant that could be interpreted as monkey chants, maybe he really misheard? In any case I think it's wrong to attack him now, it creates an atmosphere that discourages players from coming forward.
What chant is that then?
I don't remember which. I think I've read these claims under the official statement from Spurs.
Neville does that with everything to be fair. He gets a bee in his bonnet about something then just turns into a massive drama queen.
There were multiple announcements during the game and the incident was investigated, and at worst was one or two idiots.
I don't think any reasonable person would use it as a stick to beat Tottenham with. It was more used to further highlight the problem in general which I think is actually a good thing.
Just a shame the media are such hypocrits about it.
Bollocks, Maguire has been called donkey many times (by me).
Well said Gary.
As an asian living in Leicester, I used to go to their games when I could in their championship days and without fail when teams like Millwall and Leeds scum came to town, it would be “your just a town full of p*kis”, was fun looking over and without fail those singing were fat, bald and ugly when there’s nothing going for you in life, what can you do? blame immigrants of course.
Racism is very prevalent in English football, just better hidden and more online than other counties, especially against Muslims I would say rather than blacks.
when there’s nothing going for you in life, what can you do? blame immigrants of course.Racism is very prevalent in English football, just better hidden and more online than other counties, especially against Muslims I would say rather than blacks.
Innocent until proven guilty has totally been forgotten in the social media age. Though I guess some people's political views are that punishing a few innocents is okay for the greater good.
So who’s the innocent person who has been punished here?
My comment was about the perception in the social media of that concept, I made it because of the tweet from the BBC that there is no evidence of racist behaviour. I didn't say an innocent person was punished, I said that maybe some people would justify a judicial system that punishes innocents for some sort of social benefit.
It’s not really different... yeah you’ve picked examples where it can be different but people get abused, mugged and beaten in the middle of busy streets in London everyday with dozens of witnesses, phones and cctv cameras but still these crimes don’t get solved so yeah not really different.
I think you’re also massively overestimating the ability of Spurs’ CCTV cameras. From my experience of dealing with CCTV even at football grounds (Emirates) the idea to me that there are cameras capable of zooming in on the lips of every individual in a 62,000 seater stadium is laughable. And you’re taking about “62,000” witnesses, unless the ground went completely silent and everyone fixated on this one individual at this one moment, then stating it as 62,000 witnesses is again massively overstating.
Things can get missed even in these situations.
FOr what it’s worth I’m not trying to state it 100% happened but my issue tbh is the way Spurs have presented the findings of the investigation. The implication that it was some sort of top of the range Mi5 led investigation and this idea that they can see and hear everything from everyone, it’s a nonsense. And then on top of that, deliberately misquoting the Met and it’s findings. The whole statement presented to me as implying Rudiger was lying. That isn’t for Tottenham Hotspur football club to imply.
As for the last bit, like I said earlier the reaction wasn’t specifically because of the one incident it was because of everything that’s gone on this season. It wasn’t a case of Neville and Sky picking on Spurs or making a mountain out of a molehill.
I’m sure there are plenty of newspaper articles which spoke about the poor Spurs performance also, you just have to look for them like you can most things.
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Should be a lifetime ban, it's not like he'll learn tolerance in those 5 years if he hasn't learned already. Scumbag.
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/51628153
Kiko Casilla: Leeds goalkeeper gets eight-match ban for racism
Kiko Casilla: Leeds goalkeeper gets eight-match ban for racism