The Trump Presidency : Part 2

[Blackwidow]

I looked it up, it's American

Wikipedia says something different - even if the book was written by a French-American couple in France. The first film series was French-Japanese
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbapapa
I grew up with this TV series - it already started in 1974 in Germany, too, when I was five.

The original English intro:


(there seem to be later versions)
You can find the same version in various languages including German, Dutch, French.

 

[WPMUFC]

The cult remains loyal but the rest want off the doomsday bus.

 

[4bars]

The cult remains loyal but the rest want off the doomsday bus.

Incorrect. Look your last graph. That is the one that matters and why he was voted in and would vote for him again

 

[TwoSheds]

Incorrect. Look your last graph. That is the one that matters and why he was voted in and would vote for him again

No it's not. Immigration is what people blame when they're unhappy with their place in the world. Not being able to afford eggs is going to make them even more unhappy with their lot and, as it turns out (who knew?), hasn't been caused by immigration. You can be as tough, evil, illegal as you want with immigrants, but if you're making a mess of everything else then it won't help one bit.

 

[langster]

No it's not. Immigration is what people blame when they're unhappy with their place in the world. Not being able to afford eggs is going to make them even more unhappy with their lot and, as it turns out (who knew?), hasn't been caused by immigration. You can be as tough, evil, illegal as you want with immigrants, but if you're making a mess of everything else then it won't help one bit.

That's not strictly true though. It is in part but especially now where the US system is so divided and polarised and with so much outright hatred between the two main parties, so much so people disown family members over it. Even if the Dems were doing well and the country was prospering the majority of Republicans, especially the evangelical lot and the far right element would still never vote for their own interests. They would still find something to moan about because for many, change in government won't ever truly affect their lives how they we expect it or think they deserve it to be changed.

You're also discounting the fact many Evangelicals will vote simply over issues like abortion or the belief Democrats aren't Christian's because of their "woke" beliefs. The staggering irony of course is that so called woke beliefs are just inclusion, equality and fairness for all which is what we are told as the core teachings of Jesus and the Bible. Although the Bible is absolutely choc full of contradictions it always leaves them an argument or reason to hold their beliefs against others and defend their twisted position.

Back to my point though, it's not just immigration people will blame. As you saw this last election it was immigration, Biden, Kamala, The Dems, Trans people, Drag queens, woke ideology and liberal brainwashing by schools and colleges.

Now the Republicans are in charge it's the rest of the world, China is the latest target with the EU not far behind because apparently, if you weren't aware, Trump has already sorted out all the immigration, egg prices, gas prices and the cost of living crisis issues and anything he hasn't it's Biden's and the Dems fault.

Dems and independents can be equally guilty of this too but I honestly see far more self awareness and acceptance of their party or politicians faults, crimes or mistakes. That's something I have seen less than a handful of times from Republicans and especially MAGA and Q Anon lunatics.

 

[TwoSheds]

That's not strictly true though. It is in part but especially now where the US system is so divided and polarised and with so much outright hatred between the two main parties, so much so people disown family members over it. Even if the Dems were doing well and the country was prospering the majority of Republicans, especially the evangelical lot and the far right element would still never vote for their own interests. They would still find something to moan about because for many, change in government won't ever truly affect their lives how they we expect it or think they deserve it to be changed.

You're also discounting the fact many Evangelicals will vote simply over issues like abortion or the belief Democrats aren't Christian's because of their "woke" beliefs. The staggering irony of course is that so called woke beliefs are just inclusion, equality and fairness for all which is what we are told as the core teachings of Jesus and the Bible. Although the Bible is absolutely choc full of contradictions it always leaves them an argument or reason to hold their beliefs against others and defend their twisted position.

Back to my point though, it's not just immigration people will blame. As you saw this last election it was immigration, Biden, Kamala, The Dems, Trans people, Drag queens, woke ideology and liberal brainwashing by schools and colleges.

Now the Republicans are in charge it's the rest of the world, China is the latest target with the EU not far behind because apparently, if you weren't aware, Trump has already sorted out all the immigration, egg prices, gas prices and the cost of living crisis issues and anything he hasn't it's Biden's and the Dems fault.

Dems and independents can be equally guilty of this too but I honestly see far more self awareness and acceptance of their party or politicians faults, crimes or mistakes. That's something I have seen less than a handful of times from Republicans and especially MAGA and Q Anon lunatics.

It's very easy to talk bollocks and blame everything and everyone but yourself when there's food on the table, but it can really sharpen the mind when you're out on the streets. A lot of those people will change their minds in time, it won't get any better for them. And you also really don't need to persuade all of them, just a decent chunk.

 

[Krakenzero]

Incorrect. Look your last graph. That is the one that matters and why he was voted in and would vote for him again

I'd be more concerned about the Y axis.

The fact that around 60% of your more "grounded" support base thinks he is doing well economy wise considering what is actually happening (you know, the president playing and losing a game of chicken to the US' biggest rival and threat, while breaking all of its international alliances and prestige and getting the country at the brink of recession, all in about 3 months) tells you all you need to know.

They will need to feel the heat before they start blaming remoan... er, liberals and immigrants.

 

[RoyH1]

The cult remains loyal but the rest want off the doomsday bus.

Confirms that MAGA is a cult, pure and simple. They could lose their house and job and still find a way to blame Biden and the damn Libs.

 

[Mike Smalling]

I'd be more concerned about the Y axis.

The fact that around 60% of your more "grounded" support base thinks he is doing well economy wise considering what is actually happening (you know, the president playing and losing a game of chicken to the US' biggest rival and threat, while breaking all of its international alliances and prestige and getting the country at the brink of recession, all in about 3 months) tells you all you need to know.

They will need to feel the heat before they start blaming remoan... er, liberals and immigrants.

Give it time. Presidents are often granted a grace period, when it comes to polling and the effects of Trumps economic policies are only felt to an extent so far. If it results in further inflation or job losses, it will look worse for him. Also, you always have to factor in the people that don't really pay attention or are being fed propaganda through right-wing media.

 

[Redplane]

Give it time. Presidents are often granted a grace period, when it comes to polling and the effects of Trumps economic policies are only felt to an extent so far. If it results in further inflation or job losses, it will look worse for him. Also, you always have to factor in the people that don't really pay attention or are being fed propaganda through right-wing media.

Talking to several of them on semi frequent occasion - all those I know are blaming Musk and weirdly keep bringing up his chainsaw show as being bad optics. In that sense not that surprising then that Musk has become a little less visible perhaps because the narrative that he s undermining Trump is clearly gaining some traction every time there is reason to criticize the administration. If not him though - they will find a way to blame everyone BUT Trump - as usual.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Read a article a few days back regarding a MAGA beekeeper who's potentially set to lose out on 150k a year on these tarifs.
Does he doubt Trump and question his insane handling of these tariffs ? Nope.
The MAGA beekeeper questions Trump's administration. The administration Trump assembled.

 

[stefan92]

Read a article a few days back regarding a MAGA beekeeper who's potentially set to lose out on 150k a year on these tarifs.
Does he doubt Trump and question his insane handling of these tariffs ? Nope.
The MAGA beekeeper questions Trump's administration. The administration Trump assembled.

It's almost scary how that fits the typical pattern of "protest" in Russia and similar dictatorships. When things are going terribly wrong they publicly appeal to Putin because they believe that all mistakes or bad decisions/actions in general are made by people that Putin wouldn't want to do that. Because he is the benevolent leader of his people and of course wouldn't want corrupt officials in his administration etc.

And yes, it's becoming a cult when you cut off the "responsibility pyramid" at some point and let the leader float above it instead of holding him responsible for the actions of his subordinates.

 

[4bars]

No it's not. Immigration is what people blame when they're unhappy with their place in the world. Not being able to afford eggs is going to make them even more unhappy with their lot and, as it turns out (who knew?), hasn't been caused by immigration. You can be as tough, evil, illegal as you want with immigrants, but if you're making a mess of everything else then it won't help one bit.

If all goes to shit very badly i might agree, but Trump voters are willing to sacrifice their well being to a certain extend for racist reasons. They will pay gladly 2 dollars more for a dozen of eggs if that means "Cleaning" america

 

[4bars]

That's not strictly true though. It is in part but especially now where the US system is so divided and polarised and with so much outright hatred between the two main parties, so much so people disown family members over it. Even if the Dems were doing well and the country was prospering the majority of Republicans, especially the evangelical lot and the far right element would still never vote for their own interests. They would still find something to moan about because for many, change in government won't ever truly affect their lives how they we expect it or think they deserve it to be changed.

You're also discounting the fact many Evangelicals will vote simply over issues like abortion or the belief Democrats aren't Christian's because of their "woke" beliefs. The staggering irony of course is that so called woke beliefs are just inclusion, equality and fairness for all which is what we are told as the core teachings of Jesus and the Bible. Although the Bible is absolutely choc full of contradictions it always leaves them an argument or reason to hold their beliefs against others and defend their twisted position.

Back to my point though, it's not just immigration people will blame. As you saw this last election it was immigration, Biden, Kamala, The Dems, Trans people, Drag queens, woke ideology and liberal brainwashing by schools and colleges.

Now the Republicans are in charge it's the rest of the world, China is the latest target with the EU not far behind because apparently, if you weren't aware, Trump has already sorted out all the immigration, egg prices, gas prices and the cost of living crisis issues and anything he hasn't it's Biden's and the Dems fault.

Dems and independents can be equally guilty of this too but I honestly see far more self awareness and acceptance of their party or politicians faults, crimes or mistakes. That's something I have seen less than a handful of times from Republicans and especially MAGA and Q Anon lunatics.

I will add, surely everybody has different issues and they vote based on those, but immigration is the one that amalgamates the vast majority. Is Trump voters point in common. Trumps immigration policy is straight up evil and according to the graph, voters believe that is how is intended to be when they voted for him which reflect that his voters like his evil policies which is telling on how badly want them to "clean" america at any cost meaning that they will do sacrifices to their single issues for the "common good"

 

[TwoSheds]

If all goes to shit very badly i might agree, but Trump voters are willing to sacrifice their well being to a certain extend for racist reasons. They will pay gladly 2 dollars more for a dozen of eggs if that means "Cleaning" america

It going very badly is inevitable. You can't just undermine the rule of law in every area of public life and simultaneously start a trade war with the entire world and it doesn't affect both the economy and public services very badly. He is a third world ruler and that's where he will take America unless somebody stops him.

 

[Lemoor]

It's almost scary how that fits the typical pattern of "protest" in Russia and similar dictatorships. When things are going terribly wrong they publicly appeal to Putin because they believe that all mistakes or bad decisions/actions in general are made by people that Putin wouldn't want to do that. Because he is the benevolent leader of his people and of course wouldn't want corrupt officials in his administration etc.

And yes, it's becoming a cult when you cut off the "responsibility pyramid" at some point and let the leader float above it instead of holding him responsible for the actions of his subordinates.

"Good Tsar, bad Boyars" is pretty much a reflex when people try to justify strongmen of any kind in most countries of former Eastern Bloc.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

nobody is criticising them for that though, it's just some random thing a poster said

I agree. I replied to someone who said they were selling thier countries and history would remember them for it. I don't think they care one bit, that's all.

Yeah, that's fair, I have heard that criticism of Elon though so just wanted to put that out there.

 

[4bars]

It going very badly is inevitable. You can't just undermine the rule of law in every area of public life and simultaneously start a trade war with the entire world and it doesn't affect both the economy and public services very badly. He is a third world ruler and that's where he will take America unless somebody stops him.

Yes, I don't dispute that. There is certainly a threshold which being hard in immigration will not be enough but I think, for not small amount of his voters, this threshold is scarily high

 

[TwoSheds]

Yes, I don't dispute that. There is certainly a threshold which being hard in immigration will not be enough but I think, for not small amount of his voters, this threshold is scarily high

They will be an irrelevant amount once the majority turns. It's already happening.

 

[4bars]

They will be an irrelevant amount once the majority turns. It's already happening.

Hopefully the mid terms could at least stop a big part of the damage from 2026 onwards. Still 2 years for a lot of damage to be done

 

[HTG]

It's almost scary how that fits the typical pattern of "protest" in Russia and similar dictatorships. When things are going terribly wrong they publicly appeal to Putin because they believe that all mistakes or bad decisions/actions in general are made by people that Putin wouldn't want to do that. Because he is the benevolent leader of his people and of course wouldn't want corrupt officials in his administration etc.

And yes, it's becoming a cult when you cut off the "responsibility pyramid" at some point and let the leader float above it instead of holding him responsible for the actions of his subordinates.

Was the same with the Nazis. They always made sure that the unpopular moves fall to the party, which was rather unpopular and never on Hitler himself.

 

[TwoSheds]

Hopefully the mid terms could at least stop a big part of the damage from 2026 onwards. Still 2 years for a lot of damage to be done

Like with Boris, when the idea's time has come the leader needs to do enough damage to prove what a fecking stupid idea it was. If it's 2026 or 2028, eventually the vast majority will be ruing the day the fat cnut was elected and there'll be a target on the back of him and all his sycophants. Just have to hope that whatever comes afterwards isn't totally hopeless.

 

[Jippy]

Read a article a few days back regarding a MAGA beekeeper who's potentially set to lose out on 150k a year on these tarifs.
Does he doubt Trump and question his insane handling of these tariffs ? Nope.
The MAGA beekeeper questions Trump's administration. The administration Trump assembled.

Open goal headline for the subs.

Beekeeper stung by Trump tariff blitz

You're pollen my leg, says Trump-backing beekeeper stung for $150k

Beekeeper still buzzing for Trump despite $150k tariff sting

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I will add, surely everybody has different issues and they vote based on those, but immigration is the one that amalgamates the vast majority. Is Trump voters point in common. Trumps immigration policy is straight up evil and according to the graph, voters believe that is how is intended to be when they voted for him which reflect that his voters like his evil policies which is telling on how badly want them to "clean" america at any cost meaning that they will do sacrifices to their single issues for the "common good"

You're making the mistake of thinking all Trump voters are exactly like the MAGA posters you see online. In reality and in person, it's different. Sure, the types you refer to obviously exist but they aren't the entirety of Trump voters. There are at least 10-20% of Trump voters that voted solely based on the economy. Probably another 10-20% that vote solely based on abortion and religious issues. Immigration is a big issue but it's not what swung the last election to Trump by itself. Without inflation, I don't think Trump would have won even with the subpar candidate that Harris was, at the very least he wouldn't have won the popular vote.

At least 10-20% that voted for Trump will absolutely NOT sacrifice their economic well being to "clean America at all costs" as you say. There is a large enough group that if Trump continues fecking around with the economy and their 401K they will abandon Trump in a heartbeat and not give any fecks about immigration or immigrants. Its a big enough group to sway an election.

 

[4bars]

Like with Boris, when the idea's time has come the leader needs to do enough damage to prove what a fecking stupid idea it was. If it's 2026 or 2028, eventually the vast majority will be ruing the day the fat cnut was elected and there'll be a target on the back of him and all his sycophants. Just have to hope that whatever comes afterwards isn't totally hopeless.

The issue also is that all this diarrhea spotted splashing everywhere, has sticked in the democratic party. Is not exclusively on the Republican party. The whole spectrum has shifted to MAGA vision of America and if things goes so bad that they elect a D, this D may continue all this crap with less crazyness like Starmer is doing and both Starmer and D candidate will lose again to Tory and R to feck things up

I think we are in a spiral of the left not doing the right thing so voters ends voting more and more right because the right converting the left in center at best. this vicious cycle will never allow any sensitive and meaningful policies to be implemented and only the right ones will happen creating a shitshow where the fake left will be blamed

I think the damage had been done and only a kind of disruption of the system (revolution, war, economic disaster way deeper than 2008) will change it

 

[caid]

You're making the mistake of thinking all Trump voters are exactly like the MAGA posters you see online. In reality and in person, it's different. Sure, the types you refer to obviously exist but they aren't the entirety of Trump voters. There are at least 10-20% of Trump voters that voted solely based on the economy. Probably another 10-20% that vote solely based on abortion and religious issues. Immigration is a big issue but it's not what swung the last election to Trump by itself. Without inflation, I don't think Trump would have won even with the subpar candidate that Harris was, at the very least he wouldn't have won the popular vote.

At least 10-20% that voted for Trump will absolutely NOT sacrifice their economic well being to "clean America at all costs" as you say. There is a large enough group that if Trump continues fecking around with the economy and their 401K they will abandon Trump in a heartbeat and not give any fecks about immigration or immigrants. Its a big enough group to sway an election.

I'm still really confused by anyone thinking he would be good for the economy. Like they should be really fecking sceptical of the republican party in general but this outcome was really fecking obvious.

 

[4bars]

You're making the mistake of thinking all Trump voters are exactly like the MAGA posters you see online. In reality and in person, it's different. Sure, the types you refer to obviously exist but they aren't the entirety of Trump voters. There are at least 10-20% of Trump voters that voted solely based on the economy. Probably another 10-20% that vote solely based on abortion and religious issues. Immigration is a big issue but it's not what swung the last election to Trump by itself. Without inflation, I don't think Trump would have won even with the subpar candidate that Harris was, at the very least he wouldn't have won the popular vote.

At least 10-20% that voted for Trump will absolutely NOT sacrifice their economic well being to "clean America at all costs" as you say. There is a large enough group that if Trump continues fecking around with the economy and their 401K they will abandon Trump in a heartbeat and not give any fecks about immigration or immigrants. Its a big enough group to sway an election.

I am plenty conscious about single issue voters, but that works both ways. That happens also with the democrats. We saw that the abortion issue meant feck all as women voted more for Trump in % in 2024 than 2020 accounting that Kamala was a woman.

Sure, I agree that an economic fallout (not currently) would shift voters, but anti immigration is what amalgamates a lot of the voters sentiments, not only in US but in Europe. Things needs to change very badly to move that needle, and we are not there....Yet

On the positive side, the center left is becoming racist too, so there is that...GREAT!

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I am plenty conscious about single issue voters, but that works both ways. That happens also with the democrats. We saw that the abortion issue meant feck all as women voted more for Trump in % in 2024 than 2020 accounting that Kamala was a woman.

Sure, I agree that an economic fallout (not currently) would shift voters, but anti immigration is what amalgamates a lot of the voters sentiments, not only in US but in Europe. Things needs to change very badly to move that needle, and we are not there....Yet

On the positive side, the center left is becoming racist too, so there is that...GREAT!

I wouldn't call the group I am talking about "single issue voters". They aren't really. I would describe them more as economy first voters. Not sure what you mean by that last sentence either. I think maybe you are inferring too much from what you read on Twitter? It's important to remember that Twitter is not representative.

 

[4bars]

I wouldn't call the group I am talking about "single issue voters". They aren't really. I would describe them more as economy first voters. Not sure what you mean by that last sentence either. I think maybe you are inferring too much from what you read on Twitter? It's important to remember that Twitter is not representative.

Never had a twitter account so no. Is a reality that in Europe the historical left (which has little remaining of left) are getting more "tough on immigration" and the dems proposed last year some tougher immigration policies than the R, Canada is following the same patern. Is not Twitter, is actual current policies and/or discurs on immigration

And yes, I am completely conscious of economy first voters. They exist and they always will, but they are traditionally right wing and is difficult for them to vote differently. At most, not voting that is something.

But I am of the opinion that with this clima of polarization and culture wars, the electorate is focusing a lot on more on immigration and their leanings in single issues or preferences are less and less relevant. But of course, everything has a limit. A limit which has not been crossed yet

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Never had a twitter account so no. Is a reality that in Europe the historical left (which has little remaining of left) are getting more "tough on immigration" and the dems proposed last year some tougher immigration policies than the R, Canada is following the same patern. Is not Twitter, is actual current policies and/or discurs on immigration

And yes, I am completely conscious of economy first voters. They exist and they always will, but they are traditionally right wing and is difficult for them to vote differently. At most, not voting that is something.

But I am of the opinion that with this clima of polarization and culture wars, the electorate is focusing a lot on more on immigration and their leanings in single issues or preferences are less and less relevant. But of course, everything has a limit. A limit which has not been crossed yet

I wouldn't say that's accurate for America based on dozens of interactions in the last year alone and hundreds to thousands over the years. From my experience, many economy first voters in America are centrist (center left to center right) and as a group they split between Slick Willy, Perot and some HW, voted for Dubya, voted for Obama, were split between Hilary and Trump, voted for Biden and voted for Trump. I wouldn't say its accurate to just call them right wing, that would be a different group from what I see in the US.

 

[4bars]

I wouldn't say that's accurate for America based on dozens of interactions in the last year alone and hundreds to thousands over the years. From my experience, many economy first voters in America are centrist (center left to center right) and as a group they voted for Slick Willy, voted for Dubya, voted for Obama were split between Hilary and Trump, voted for Biden and voted for Trump. I wouldn't say its accurate to just call them right wing, that would be a different group from what I see in the US.

I don't have that amount of personal experience with individuals so I will take your work on that. For me is a personal experience on europe which I thought I could extrapolate

Also on a final note, voting W, Obama, Trump and Hilary is voting right wing in my eyes

 

[Frosty]

Nayib Bukele says he doesn't have the power to return Ábrego García to US​

A reporter asks Bukele if Kilmar Ábrego García will be returned to the US.

"How can I return a criminal to the US? Smuggle a terrorist in?," Bukele replies.

He then calls the question "absurd" and says he won't release Ábrego García because he isn't fond of releasing people from his prisons.

"The question is preposterous," Bukele says. "I don't have the power to return him to the United States."

Secretary of State Marco Rubio is now speaking, again commenting on the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

"I don't understand what the confusion is," he says.

Again, he calls Abrego Garcia a citizen of El Salvador, who was "illegally in the United States who was returned to his country".

The foreign policy of the United States "is conducted by the president of the United States, not by a court".

He says no court "has a right" to do this.

---

Well that's that sorted then.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I don't have that amount of personal experience with individuals so I will take your work on that. For me is a personal experience on europe which I thought I could extrapolate

Also on a final note, voting W, Obama, Trump and Hilary is voting right wing in my eyes

You can't extrapolate European politics 1:1 for US politics. It's been discussed many times on here how there are fundamental differences. As many have mentioned here, even your center-right parties will protect universal healthcare in Europe which is obviously not the case in the US. Also, if you're including Obama there you have to include Slick Willy, he was more to the right of Obama.

 

[NotChatGPT]

Nayib Bukele says he doesn't have the power to return Ábrego García to US​

A reporter asks Bukele if Kilmar Ábrego García will be returned to the US.

"How can I return a criminal to the US? Smuggle a terrorist in?," Bukele replies.

He then calls the question "absurd" and says he won't release Ábrego García because he isn't fond of releasing people from his prisons.

"The question is preposterous," Bukele says. "I don't have the power to return him to the United States."

Secretary of State Marco Rubio is now speaking, again commenting on the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

"I don't understand what the confusion is," he says.

Again, he calls Abrego Garcia a citizen of El Salvador, who was "illegally in the United States who was returned to his country".

The foreign policy of the United States "is conducted by the president of the United States, not by a court".

He says no court "has a right" to do this.

---

Well that's that sorted then.

What a bunch of utter cnuts

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

A reporter asks Bukele if Kilmar Ábrego García will be returned to the US.

"How can I return a criminal to the US? Smuggle a terrorist in?," Bukele replies.

At least there's a much higher chance Bukele ends up in prison than Trump et al.

 

[Mike Smalling]

About a month ago we had this exchange in this thread regarding the deportation orders and court rulings:

When does this simply come down to what the people with the guns choose to believe? If judges say one thing and Trump says another, eventually someone (police or military) will decide with actual force.

Most likely this will go all the way to SCOTUS? Doubt a SCOTUS ruling will be outright ignored?

Or more likely, it will result in the usual scenario where the supreme court arbitrate any disputes between the Executive and Judicial branches of government.

That’s not the result though, that’s another step in the process. If Trump ignores Supreme Court rulings, what happens then? It comes down to what people with guns want, which is the point @Mike Smalling was making.

That hasn't happened though. Its simply a fatalistic scenario cooked up by doom and gloom Twitter anxieties. Let's deal with reality, which is that Trump is clearly testing the limits of judicial pushback and the judiciary is doing its job in rebuffing him. If matters are elevated to SCOTUS, then the system will have still worked as intended, irrespective of what they decide.

We're not all the way there, but it's getting pretty close, no?

When it comes to Abrego Garcia, I'm guessing Trump and his goons don't really care about what happens to him, but they care a lot about the message they are sending about who holds the power. If they can get away with obfuscating and gaslighting about a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling against them, what can't they get away with?

Another potential explanation could be that Garcia is dead, and they are stalling.

 

[Raoul]

About a month ago we had this exchange in this thread regarding the deportation orders and court rulings:





We're not all the way there, but it's getting pretty close, no?

When it comes to Abrego Garcia, I'm guessing Trump and his goons don't really care about what happens to him, but they care a lot about the message they are sending about who holds the power. If they can get away with obfuscating and gaslighting about a 9-0 SCOTUS ruling against them, what can't they get away with?

Another potential explanation could be that Garcia is dead, and they are stalling.

They're still arguing about it today, specifically about the word "facilitate" in the SCOTUS ruling. Both sides are interpreting the use of that word as a win for them, which if you watched the presser with the President of El Salvador at the White House today, the administration are clearly trying to spin this as a 9-0 ruling in their favor. Hard to say what happens next since the SCOTUS ruling didn't use language ordering or mandating the administration to bring him back.

 

[4bars]

You can't extrapolate European politics 1:1 for US politics. It's been discussed many times on here how there are fundamental differences. As many have mentioned here, even your center-right parties will protect universal healthcare in Europe which is obviously not the case in the US. Also, if you're including Obama there you have to include Slick Willy, he was more to the right of Obama.

Oh yeah, I wasn't sure, but it refers to Bill Clinton? yes, Any of the POTUS of my lifetime are at best center in my opinion. And yes, you can't equate US to european as you can't between european countries and as you can't local and regional. Is what generalizing does but sometimes is unavoidable for simplicity with more than happy to consider caveats

 

[Mike Smalling]

They're still arguing about it today, specifically about the word "facilitate" in the SCOTUS ruling. Both sides are interpreting the use of that word as a win for them, which if you watched the presser with the President of El Salvador at the White House today, the administration are clearly trying to spin this as a 9-0 ruling in their favor. Hard to say what happens next since the SCOTUS ruling didn't use language ordering or mandating the administration to bring him back.

Yeah ok, so they may get off on a technicality on SCOTUS level, but they are pretty openly defiant towards the lower level court that the case has been returned to. They continue stating without proof that the guy is MS-13 and refusing to provide updates on plans to facilitate his return.
In the end the administration will likely have deported someone illegally (calling it an administrative error) and then get away with some bullshit about how the courts can not dictate foreign policy etc. etc. Not exactly the system working as intended, you would think, but I guess they can hide behind word definitions to avoid being in open contempt of SCOTUS so far.

 

[MikeUpNorth]

They're still arguing about it today, specifically about the word "facilitate" in the SCOTUS ruling. Both sides are interpreting the use of that word as a win for them, which if you watched the presser with the President of El Salvador at the White House today, the administration are clearly trying to spin this as a 9-0 ruling in their favor. Hard to say what happens next since the SCOTUS ruling didn't use language ordering or mandating the administration to bring him back.

I always value your opinion Raoul—and it must be hard to see what's happening to your country—but I think you're denying what's right in front of your face. I remember having a similar conversation with you years ago when you insisted there was no way Roe v Wade would get overturned. I'm afraid that to me it looks like America is on the familiar slow (but accelerating) descent into full-blown fascism.

This administration is going to end up outright ignoring the judiciary and the constitutional crisis will be make-or-break time for the US. We're practically there already.