The Title Race 2017/18 | Done and dusted.

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Dumbstar said:
Killed their own momentum by drawing with a poor, at the time, Liverpool team. Then expected to pick momentum up by a flick of a switch. Players are humans and don't work like that. It's on Jose.
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You didn't look that poor last week, tbh.
I expected Josè to win as well, but it was tough in the end for him.
 
Dominos said:
Said it before, Mourinho has never chased down a league title. He's basically lead the league for the entire season every time he's won it.

Aside from the 5 point deficit, we're just not that good a team. Our attack was absolutely shocking last season, we simply replaced Zlatan with Lukaku. It was never going to be enough. We're not creative enough, we have no threat on our right wing, and our full backs are poor going forward. Our players gift possession away needlessly every 10 seconds, and their touch lets them down at key moments in the final third.

I hope I'm wrong but I'd be shocked if we won the league this season.
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Exactly. You won’t be wrong either.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Pleading poverty doesn't cut it - not given what United have spent since Fergie retired. And if you look to continue following the City model - spend, spend, spend - then - you are doomed to stay in their shadow, because they can always spend even more than you.

Time to take different approach.
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Moyes and LvG's spending and sales took us backwards, and our spending since has been to rectify it.

I agree that we're not doing enough considering the resources, but there are some deficiencies in this team that hasn't been adressed for years and now are showing, mainly full backs and RW, and we don't have anyone currently capable of filling that void.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Pleading poverty doesn't cut it - not given what United have spent since Fergie retired. And if you look to continue following the City model - spend, spend, spend - then you are doomed to stay in their shadow, because they can always spend even more than you.

Time to take different approach.
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Yes we need to take the trophyless Spurs model.

You'll be joining us in their shadow so get off your high horse.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Pleading poverty doesn't cut it - not given what United have spent since Fergie retired. And if you look to continue following the City model - spend, spend, spend - then you are doomed to stay in their shadow, because they can always spend even more than you.

Time to take different approach.
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No club in world football has spent as much as Spurs and not won either their domestic title or CL in the last 25 years. £815mil and counting.

The way you go on you would think Spurs spend nothing and their players play for free.

The reason Spurs can't spend United levels of money is because you were mismanaged for so long.
 
amolbhatia50k said:
City had a CB and CM problem too. What did they do? Just worked on their defending, and played KDB in midfield.

We had a CM problem. What did we do? Only broken the transfer record by signing one player for 90 million.

Both managers have spent plenty.
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It's not just buying , buying and buying more. Mourinho has not improved his attackers through coaching. Guardiola and Poch have. Sane, Sterling, Kane, Son and Eriksen are all better players now than they were. Mata is clearly not on the evidence of the last year and Mkhitaryan only in fits and starts. Our defenders on the other hand have improved (obviously excluding the two howlers today). So the coaching matters as well.
Dominos said:
Said it before, Mourinho has never chased down a league title. He's basically lead the league for the entire season every time he's won it.

Aside from the 5 point deficit, we're just not that good a team. Our attack was absolutely shocking last season, we simply replaced Zlatan with Lukaku. It was never going to be enough. We're not creative enough, we have no threat on our right wing, and our full backs are poor going forward. Our players gift possession away needlessly every 10 seconds, and their touch lets them down at key moments in the final third.

I hope I'm wrong but I'd be shocked if we won the league this season.
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1. He needs to swallow his fecking pride and ask the master for some pointers then.
2. Totally agree. It ain't happening.
 
It feels very sad, but City look like they will run away with it. I feared that last season although they then did start to struggle. This season though they just look too strong and have better depth in the squad. I really hope City can start to struggle, but right now it look much more likely that we will be the team to struggle with all the extra games.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Pleading poverty doesn't cut it - not given what United have spent since Fergie retired. And if you look to continue following the City model - spend, spend, spend - then you are doomed to stay in their shadow, because they can always spend even more than you.

Time to take different approach.
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Pep has spent the same as Jose and already had a better squad. So yeah this will definitely not work but a different approach...what exactly, you can’t polish turd and some of our players clearly are turd, whether that be Pep managing United or Poch this team isn’t winning the league for me without another three top class, first team additions.
 
sammsky1 said:
not sure they will. They have so much quality in depth. Likewise, I'm not sure that if they do hit this patch, we'll have the quality to capitalize.

Beyond our first 16 players, our squad is quite average vs City and so we are always going to have gaps when injury affects key players.
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They definitely will as no one has the horses to not eventually have a dip in form. We are currently running on a massive deficit without our best defender, midfielder, and goal scorers out to injury. Once that is resolved we will be firing on all cylinders. We've gotten off to a blazing start and just need to continue with our momentum until Bailly and Pogba are back soon.
 
Haddock said:
It's not just buying , buying and buying more. Mourinho has not improved his attackers through coaching. Guardiola and Poch have. Sane, Sterling, Kane, Son and Eriksen are all better players now than they were. Mata is clearly not on the evidence of the last year and Mkhitaryan only in fits and starts.
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Most of them are young and their ceiling is a lot higher. Eriksen runs rings around Mata and Mkhi in terms of ability. How can one improve pussies like Mata and Mkhi?

Only Rashford and Martial are young with potential in our team (Lingard ain't young anymore and he's not got potential). Of the two, Martial has perhaps stalled (still too early to say) but Rashford is slowly improving - not sure if he will make it, of course, but still improving.
 
Until Mourinho builds a clear identity and incisive patterns of play, the EPL offers too many pitfalls like today. United can't contend just leaning on teams. They have to cut open defenses and win. Either this gets sorted or too many points get dropped.

This is shaping up to be a season where it's going to take a real top class campaign to best what City are doing. It won't take many days like today to fall out of contention. There is a lot of the season to go, but it's going to start getting away if this blip becomes a run.
 
Manchester Dan said:
Good day for City but many games ahead (only 23% of the season gone!). We have West Brom A next week while United entertain Spurs - as the 3 current front runners it’s important for City to make sure they take 3 points and let one or both of the others fall behind a little.
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United haven't beaten anyone in the top 12 yet.
The 2 results against teams in the 8-11 places are a loss and a draw.

October and the start of November really is where United will show themselves , bad or good.
It's not looking good so far.
 
JASR said:
United haven't beaten anyone in the top 12 yet.
The 2 results against teams in the 8-11 places are a loss and a draw.

October and the start of November really is where United will show themselves , bad or good.
It's not looking good so far.
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I will be surprised if we take more than 1 point in next two games.
 
Raoul said:
They definitely will as no one has the horses to not eventually have a dip in form. We are currently running on a massive deficit without our best defender, midfielder, and goal scorers out to injury. Once that is resolved we will be firing on all cylinders. We've gotten off to a blazing start and just need to continue with our momentum until Bailly and Pogba are back soon.
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At which point Lukaku and Matic will have form and injury issues. And so it goes on. The relentless demands of PL/CL/Internationals mean it unlikely any team ever have all its best players fit and on form at the same time, which is why quality squad depth is so important.

SAF was fortunate to have this when we were the richest in the land. Poor transfer activity by Moyes/LVG has put us behind City on this front and its taking time to get back up to the required quality. And so we get hiccups like today.
 
It's City's to lose, despite it being early.

With Spurs and Chelsea next up I can't see anything other than the gap widening. Guaranteed to lose 2 points minimum away to Chelsea as we will be taking the bus.

Hence why I wish we went more offensive against Liverpool. A win away at anfield could have galvanised the team to go on a good run and be in high spirits ahead of a difficult period.

We need Ibra, Pogba, Rojo and Bailly back asap. I'd like to thing we can still mount a title challenge but foresee it being a top 4 challenge.
 
JASR said:
United haven't beaten anyone in the top 12 yet.
The 2 results against teams in the 8-11 places are a loss and a draw.

October and the start of November really is where United will show themselves , bad or good.
It's not looking good so far.
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We could lose to West Brom and everything changes. But yes, I feel Spurs H has become a very key game for you.
 
sammsky1 said:
At which point Lukaku and Matic will have form and injury issues. And so it goes on. The relentless demands of PL/CL/Internationals mean it unlikely any team ever have all its best players fit and on form at the same time, which is why quality squad depth is so important.

SAF was fortunate to have this when we were the richest in the land. Poor transfer activity by Moyes/LVG has put us behind City on this front and its taking time to get back up to the required quality. And so we get hiccups like today.
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I doubt we will have injury problems to this extent once our best players are back. Today's result was more down to poor performance than anything related to transfers. Irrespective of who you buy, they still have to perform.
 
The next two games are crucial for us. Already 5 points behind City now. Sadly, with injuries to our key players and the way we are playing these days, I don't think we'll get anything more than a draw in both games. Pogba can't come soon enough.
 
I will add to what i said in the other thread.
We have a great spine to the team with world class keeper and great Cb's (Rojo, Bailly, Smalling) and likewise with Cm's (Pogba, Matic and Herrera) and Striker (Lukaku). But we are terrible at Fullbacks and wingers and no10. City is the only team that look strong and complete in every area. But we still should not lose hope since we still have a strong spine but we need our players back and Jose needs to ring his changes.

We should be starting with this lineup when everybody is fit, but untill we have all these players available i hope we keep getting enough points.

DDG
Valencia Bailly Rojo/Smalling Blind
Rashford Matic Pogba Martial
Zlatan
Lukaku

Zlatan for all his faults is very reliable at holding up the ball and actually bringing others into play and he can smack them in from range which will be crucial for no10. Furthermore, he likes roaming around which was a hinderance last season as a lone striker but fine as a no10, alongwith his one combination with pogba will be brilliant to watch and we longer will be boring. Moreover Jose needs to stop this either Martial and Rashford thing. We need Rashford to stay on the wing and put crosses in with pace which Zlatan and Lukaku will thrive on. Martial can do damage from the left and lastly please play Blind. He brings calmness and passing ability from the back that we lack and above all he is very good at crossing. I think this side can do business in 90% of the matches, i am not sure if it will be enough to win the league since City seems consistent but atleast we will give those feckers a fight.
 
We must not let the gap increase more than it is till we meet City on December the 10th. Have to beat at least one of Spurs and Chelsea.
 
Haddock said:
It's not just buying , buying and buying more. Mourinho has not improved his attackers through coaching. Guardiola and Poch have. Sane, Sterling, Kane, Son and Eriksen are all better players now than they were. Mata is clearly not on the evidence of the last year and Mkhitaryan only in fits and starts. Our defenders on the other hand have improved (obviously excluding the two howlers today). So the coaching matters as well..
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Yes that's what I want to see from Jose. I'd say Martial has improved this season but today everyone was piss poor.

With Mourinho I'm very confident in his spending. Hell buy the right players. My doubt is over his coaching, tactics and improvement of the younger players, relative to the other top managers.

Let's go on a run now because we really need to.
 
Dominos said:
Said it before, Mourinho has never chased down a league title. He's basically lead the league for the entire season every time he's won it.

Aside from the 5 point deficit, we're just not that good a team. Our attack was absolutely shocking last season, we simply replaced Zlatan with Lukaku. It was never going to be enough. We're not creative enough, we have no threat on our right wing, and our full backs are poor going forward. Our players gift possession away needlessly every 10 seconds, and their touch lets them down at key moments in the final third.

I hope I'm wrong but I'd be shocked if we won the league this season.
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Basically this. None of our attackers behind Lukaku are good enough for the level we want to be at. Rashford and Martial have potential but I feel people are overrating their current level.
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
You didn't look that poor last week, tbh.
I expected Josè to win as well, but it was tough in the end for him.
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He made it tough for himself though. Too many apologists (not you per se). If he told his players to play like lions and maul them then even if they lost the players would retain that attitude. Doesn't have to be reckless but more adventurous.

Edit: we only looked good AFTER that game because our players felt hard done by so took it out immediately on Maribor.
 
Dominos said:
Yes we need to take the trophyless Spurs model.

You'll be joining us in their shadow so get off your high horse.
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Fine, continue down the cheque-book management approach that's paid so many dividends for you in the league since Fergie left.
 
Next 2 games are absolutely crucial. We definitely need to beat Spurs, and then we'll see how things are shaping up going to the bridge but we'll surely need at least a draw there.
 
thegregster said:
No club in world football has spent as much as Spurs and not won either their domestic title or CL in the last 25 years. £815mil and counting.

The way you go on you would think Spurs spend nothing and their players play for free.

The reason Spurs can't spend United levels of money is because you were mismanaged for so long.
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The only measure of spending that has any real value is net spend, otherwise you are only looking at half of the equation. And the net spend of Spurs has been incredibly low for many, many years.

The reasons we don't spend United levels of money are (a) we have new stadium complex to fund; (b) we don't have the same income levels; (c) we've been progressing well by developing the players we already have, both in the squad and through our academy; and (d) we don't need to spend as much as United do in order to attract/sign quality players.
 
Our troubles are compounded by City's early brilliance. It does little for the mental state of our squad - because you begin to feel as if your efforts are in vein.

It's difficult for Mourinho too, because he doesn't like to be in this position. He doesn't want to be the one chasing.

With Ferguson and his squads, you always knew that even if we weren't the leading team, he'd keep us in the mix, not let heads drop and have us in position for when others stumbled. At this moment in time, the same encouragement can't be sought from Mourinho and this squad.

Mourinho can't distance himself from the team. The players likewise. They have to keep working. City will falter.
 
Dominos said:
And you continue with your approach that has got you a couple of top 4 finishes and no trophies.
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Our low-net spend approach has also got us what will be the best stadium in the Prem, a world-class training centre and a squad that can compete with the best.

Ever since Fergie left, United have throwing money at the problem of your league competitiveness. It hasn't worked, yet still some of you call for even more spending. I wonder how long it will be before the penny drops.
 
The bookies' odds of City winning the league are now lower than us finishing in the top 4.
 
AXVnee7 said:
Next 2 games are absolutely crucial. We definitely need to beat Spurs, and then we'll see how things are shaping up going to the bridge but we'll surely need at least a draw there.
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City play Arsenal that same weekend as United and Chelsea, that could be a big weekend for all involved!
 
GlastonSpur said:
I wonder how long it will be before the penny drops.
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Cross your fingers, because it doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon. Spending, debt and wages are very much balanced against income, and this is without having CL for the last few years.

This dream you have of United going into financial ruin simply won't materialize, deal with it.
 
GlastonSpur said:
Our low-net spend approach has also got us what will be the best stadium in the Prem, a world-class training centre and a squad that can compete with the best.

Ever since Fergie left, United have throwing money at the problem of your league competitiveness. It hasn't worked, yet still some of you call for even more spending. I wonder how long it will be before the penny drops.
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You can't compete with the best any more than we can, you haven't won the league, you couldn't get out of the CL group stage, and you haven't won a trophy.
 
I'm really annoyed of all these talks about City walking the league, their attack being the best ever and all the continuous praise Pep is getting currently.

If they won it I won't handle it. I have no problem with Chelsea winning a league but not City or Liverpool please, the media becomes unbearable after.
 
el3mel said:
I'm really annoyed of all these talks about City walking the league, their attack being the best ever and all the continuous praise Pep is getting currently.

If they won it I won't handle it. I have no problem with Chelsea winning a league but not City or Liverpool please, the media becomes unbearable after.
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Unfortunately we're only contributing to it. 5 points isn't actually that much of a gap given we're more or less hitting the 1/4 mark in the season, but it's the way City are winning so emphatically that makes them look unstoppable currently.
 
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
At least we can put a stop to all the daft title talk now. City will run away with this.
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They look to be the real deal this season with Pep and their additions. They could have the title mentally wrapped up by December. I wouldn't say the wheels have fallen off for us but with our injuries and poor performances, our confidence is shattered right now. We'll do well if we can keep City close and stay above the rest. We've been plagued by injuries and now have players needing a rest that can't get one. Grim times ahead until Pogba and Fellaini return.
 
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