Yeah but Shaq's still bullying centers even after his career's finished. Just ask McGee.
The Third Basketball Fantasy Draft
- Thread starter Skizzo
- Start date
You're letting your Rockets fandom cloud your judgement there. I love Hakeem but peak Shaq is simply something you can have no plan against, he slots in the class of your Wilts and your Kareems.
You have two of my favorite players in the backcourt and on the wing, although I have managed to get a good all rounded team so far too. It's going to be tough to get good supporting cast from here but starting five of Nash-Allen-George-Kemp-Olajuwon looks solid as feck. I have two players I want that might still fall to me.
I like your team an awful lot, you shouldn't have too many players blocked either I don't think. We are all getting into tossup territory now, no clear game-changers remain.
A bit suspect on the backcourt defense.
1. OB/NM - 1. L. James 2. Isiah Thomas 3. K. Malone 4. A. Mourning 5. D. Wilkins
2. Edgar - 1. T. Duncan 2. P. Ewing 3. C. Drexler 4. R. Westbrook 5. C. Anthony
3. Sarni - 1. H. Olajuwon 2. S. Nash 3. R. Allen 4.S.Kemp 5. P. George 6. P. Hardaway
4. Akshay/Syrian - 1. K. Bryant 2. C. Paul 3. D. Nowitzki 4. J. Worthy 5. D. Mutombo 6. J. Wall
5. Mazhar/Mani - 1. D.Wade 2. S. Pippen 3. J. Kidd 4. D. Green 5. P. Gasol 6. J. Harden
6. AltoDevil/Kasper - 1. S. O'Neal 2. K. Durant 3. C. Barkley 4. J. Dumars 5. A. Iverson 6. V. Carter
7. Skizzo - 1. D. Robinson 2. S. Curry 3. R. Miller 4. P. Pierce 5. C. Bosh 6. A. Davis
8. Moby - 1. K. Garnett 2. J. Stockton 3. K. Leonard 4. K. Thompson 5. C. Webber 6. Y. Ming
2. Edgar - 1. T. Duncan 2. P. Ewing 3. C. Drexler 4. R. Westbrook 5. C. Anthony
3. Sarni - 1. H. Olajuwon 2. S. Nash 3. R. Allen 4.S.Kemp 5. P. George 6. P. Hardaway
4. Akshay/Syrian - 1. K. Bryant 2. C. Paul 3. D. Nowitzki 4. J. Worthy 5. D. Mutombo 6. J. Wall
5. Mazhar/Mani - 1. D.Wade 2. S. Pippen 3. J. Kidd 4. D. Green 5. P. Gasol 6. J. Harden
6. AltoDevil/Kasper - 1. S. O'Neal 2. K. Durant 3. C. Barkley 4. J. Dumars 5. A. Iverson 6. V. Carter
7. Skizzo - 1. D. Robinson 2. S. Curry 3. R. Miller 4. P. Pierce 5. C. Bosh 6. A. Davis
8. Moby - 1. K. Garnett 2. J. Stockton 3. K. Leonard 4. K. Thompson 5. C. Webber 6. Y. Ming
Feck defense.
Unfortunately Allen and Nash seem to have played with everyone. Good that George has stuck to a team that never had any serious stars worth considering during his time there, but on the other hand Olajuwon blocked Barkley for me.
Me too. This is what I said about Shaq a few months ago.
I don't think there's any doubt that Hakeem was technically more capable than Shaq, but O'Neill at his his zenith was just unstoppable. For me he is the most transcendent big man of the past 40 years.
This has potential, even just to run it alongside the regular voting and see what happens. I notice you can even set a depth chart for your team etc.
Even at their primes, Shaq never possessed the array of threats that Hakeem had. He was a threat from anywhere between 15-20 feet out. Shaq's threat was more limited, but what he had, he was unstoppable in that. Defensively, Hakeem is a far better player and overall when I want to build a team around, It'll be Hakeem all the way.
And I'll make my pick soon. Hate that my turn always comes at 4am.
I'll take the unstoppable threat over the very good multiple threats any day of the week. Shaq wasn't some one dimensional player and his defense was excellent in and around the paint. Hakeem could operate in more complex schemes yes, and objectively contested shots better, but Shaq wasn't some slouch. Hakeem never reached the offensive domination that Shaq did, and a big difference in offense is much more important than the smaller difference on the defensive end.
I doubt even Hakeem could guard Shaq in his prime. In his Laker years, there wasnt a center in the league who could guard him. Thats why he averaged close to 30 points a game during a season. And if it wasnt for his FT% then he would have averaged 35 points a season.
I always felt Hakeem is slightly better than Shaq,in overall scheme of thing.
Its definitely debatable. Thats why they are amongst the top 5 centers of all time. But it was scary how Shaq manhandled and bullied his opponents during his championship years.
It's been argued over for a long time now, there's no correct answer. But Shaq was better.
Denis Rodman
1. OB/NM - 1. L. James 2. Isiah Thomas 3. K. Malone 4. A. Mourning 5. D. Wilkins
2. Edgar - 1. T. Duncan 2. P. Ewing 3. C. Drexler 4. R. Westbrook 5. C. Anthony 6. D. Rodman
3. Sarni - 1. H. Olajuwon 2. S. Nash 3. R. Allen 4.S.Kemp 5. P. George 6. P. Hardaway
4. Akshay/Syrian - 1. K. Bryant 2. C. Paul 3. D. Nowitzki 4. J. Worthy 5. D. Mutombo 6. J. Wall
5. Mazhar/Mani - 1. D.Wade 2. S. Pippen 3. J. Kidd 4. D. Green 5. P. Gasol 6. J. Harden
6. AltoDevil/Kasper - 1. S. O'Neal 2. K. Durant 3. C. Barkley 4. J. Dumars 5. A. Iverson 6. V. Carter
7. Skizzo - 1. D. Robinson 2. S. Curry 3. R. Miller 4. P. Pierce 5. C. Bosh 6. A. Davis
8. Moby - 1. K. Garnett 2. J. Stockton 3. K. Leonard 4. K. Thompson 5. C. Webber 6. Y. Ming
2. Edgar - 1. T. Duncan 2. P. Ewing 3. C. Drexler 4. R. Westbrook 5. C. Anthony 6. D. Rodman
3. Sarni - 1. H. Olajuwon 2. S. Nash 3. R. Allen 4.S.Kemp 5. P. George 6. P. Hardaway
4. Akshay/Syrian - 1. K. Bryant 2. C. Paul 3. D. Nowitzki 4. J. Worthy 5. D. Mutombo 6. J. Wall
5. Mazhar/Mani - 1. D.Wade 2. S. Pippen 3. J. Kidd 4. D. Green 5. P. Gasol 6. J. Harden
6. AltoDevil/Kasper - 1. S. O'Neal 2. K. Durant 3. C. Barkley 4. J. Dumars 5. A. Iverson 6. V. Carter
7. Skizzo - 1. D. Robinson 2. S. Curry 3. R. Miller 4. P. Pierce 5. C. Bosh 6. A. Davis
8. Moby - 1. K. Garnett 2. J. Stockton 3. K. Leonard 4. K. Thompson 5. C. Webber 6. Y. Ming
His dunking game was exceptional. Nobody could stop him there. But then apart from that, Hakeem was better. He had a wider variety of threats across the floor, had better work rate, was a better defender, was a better team player.
Better work rate? What is he a football winger? Better team player how? They both averaged a similar assist output throughout their career. He can have a wider variety of threats but Shaq's best scoring season outways Hakeem's best scoring season.
Shaq>Hakeem and also Kobe. Just more dominant, Hakeem's skillset doesn't change that.
Work ethics. Steals, rebounds, keeping ball in play etc.
Hakeem has 5 All Defensive First Teams to Shaq's 0 (9 to 0 considering all selections)
2 x Defensive Player of the Year to Shaq's 0.
2 x rebounds leader to Shaq's 0
3 x Blocks leader to Shaq's 0
Shaq has 2 x scoring leader to Hakeem's 0
As for scoring, Shaq's best scoring was 29.7 pts to Hakeem's 27.8. Careerwise it is 23.7 (Shaq) to 21.8 (Hakeem). Shaq is a better scorer, but Hakeem is a better player....and Hakeem is a clutch game player. Shaq was not.
Just stop, that's such a ridiculous statement.
Hakeem had 9 first-round playoff exits, and even missed them altogether during his prime. Clearly elevated his team?
Shaq AVERAGED
38.0pts 16.7reb 2.3ast 1.0stl 2.7blk
In a finals. The biggest stage there is. That's pretty clutch to me.
Hakeem was not blessed with as talented a supporting cast as Shaq though.
Steals and rebounds are so close its not worth arguing. Keeping the ball in play? Where are you even coming up with this?
Sure you forgot Shaq's 4 rings to Hakeem's 2. Thats definitely a big thing.
You're just so far off here.I'd say it's a push aside from Kobe in the latter Laker runs. Hakeem's wasn't great mostly but it wasn't dreadful, and in fact was pretty good for his finals.
Only Kobe? So Wade wasn't great? How about Pierce, Rondo, and Allen?
He played in Boston for less than a season - only 37 games. Dont see how that counts? And it was his FINAL season.
Ok I'll give you Boston but Shaq had Kobe and Wade for what 6-7 seasons? Best Olajuwon had was an aging Clyde Drexler(who was still good mind, but not as good as Kobe and Wade).
1. OB/NM - 1. L. James 2. Isiah Thomas 3. K. Malone 4. A. Mourning 5. D. Wilkins 6. P. Stojakovic 7. M. Ginobli
2. Edgar - 1. T. Duncan 2. P. Ewing 3. C. Drexler 4. R. Westbrook 5. C. Anthony 6. D. Rodman
3. Sarni - 1. H. Olajuwon 2. S. Nash 3. R. Allen 4.S.Kemp 5. P. George 6. P. Hardaway
4. Akshay/Syrian - 1. K. Bryant 2. C. Paul 3. D. Nowitzki 4. J. Worthy 5. D. Mutombo 6. J. Wall
5. Mazhar/Mani - 1. D.Wade 2. S. Pippen 3. J. Kidd 4. D. Green 5. P. Gasol 6. J. Harden
6. AltoDevil/Kasper - 1. S. O'Neal 2. K. Durant 3. C. Barkley 4. J. Dumars 5. A. Iverson 6. V. Carter
7. Skizzo - 1. D. Robinson 2. S. Curry 3. R. Miller 4. P. Pierce 5. C. Bosh 6. A. Davis
8. Moby - 1. K. Garnett 2. J. Stockton 3. K. Leonard 4. K. Thompson 5. C. Webber 6. Y. Ming
@Edgar Allan Pillow
2. Edgar - 1. T. Duncan 2. P. Ewing 3. C. Drexler 4. R. Westbrook 5. C. Anthony 6. D. Rodman
3. Sarni - 1. H. Olajuwon 2. S. Nash 3. R. Allen 4.S.Kemp 5. P. George 6. P. Hardaway
4. Akshay/Syrian - 1. K. Bryant 2. C. Paul 3. D. Nowitzki 4. J. Worthy 5. D. Mutombo 6. J. Wall
5. Mazhar/Mani - 1. D.Wade 2. S. Pippen 3. J. Kidd 4. D. Green 5. P. Gasol 6. J. Harden
6. AltoDevil/Kasper - 1. S. O'Neal 2. K. Durant 3. C. Barkley 4. J. Dumars 5. A. Iverson 6. V. Carter
7. Skizzo - 1. D. Robinson 2. S. Curry 3. R. Miller 4. P. Pierce 5. C. Bosh 6. A. Davis
8. Moby - 1. K. Garnett 2. J. Stockton 3. K. Leonard 4. K. Thompson 5. C. Webber 6. Y. Ming
@Edgar Allan Pillow
He also wasn't close to shaq physically or athletically, he was better on the eye to watch obviously due to those ridiculous post moves but shaq along with LeBron are the only two players I have seen who are simply unstoppable no matter what you have. You can bring a prime Bill Russell and he will have no answer when Shaq gets the ball. Even against MJ you can have a strategy and a hope in a 1v1, but prime Shaq or LeBron in 1v1 are game over, absolutely nothing can be done to counter that size, strength and athleticism with that level of skill. That's a bigger part of the game especially in the position of a centre and it's why Shaq was the most dominant player the league has seen since Wilt Chamberlain, and Hakeem's peak wasn't as high as Shaq's. During that phase, Shaq, like LeBron is today, was billed to be THE GOAT, and if he had better work ethic and had put some more effort in his defense, not that it was any bad by any stretch of imagination, he would have been the GOAT. Watching him at his peak was an experience that hasn't been matched since and if you have that particular version at your disposal, you can't ask for a bigger weapon, literally, in your team. I mean he made the likes of Mutombo and Mourning look like kids ffs. Obviously when you look at the entire career etc then other factors come in, but Shaq is still a top 5 Centre of all time in terms of overall career, and peak wise he's absolutely up there.
Hakeem anyway played a lot more like a 4 than a 5, in terms of his play and hence the two are very different players, given you can't be any more of a proper full fledge centre than Diesel himself.
oh man
Patrick Ewing is killing me!
I would have said good post but then you went and said "Even against MJ you can have a strategy and a hope in a 1v1".
Also having Carmelo in your starting 5 will kill you during the debate.
Yeah I know that sounds crazy and 99% it will fail as well but you can at least HAVE some plan, what the hell do you do against that mammoth monster charging at you? Get out of the way, that's all.I would have said good post but then you went and said "Even against MJ you can have a strategy and a hope in a 1v1".
Dwight Howard