The Tactical Problem Amorim Is Facing at Man United

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justsomebloke said:
Completely disagree. If you do that, you just get stuck in mitigation, it's not a way forward. It's what you do if you're fighting to avoid relegation, otherwise it's just short-sighted. Also, needless to say, if that's what we wanted to do, we hired the wrong manager. He's been totally clear from the outset he wasn't going to do that.
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Unfortunately a few more losses in the next few games and we actually could be in a scrap for relegation.
Luckily we are not there yet, and hopefully we can get some much needed results in the next few (admittedly difficult) games.
Also, a question needs to be asked as to how many of these starting players will be playing this system next season with United? I'd wager probably four, possibly six at a push.
So whilst I get the system needs to be implemented, it all just seems a bit hap hazard with the way it's been introduced.
 
NoPace said:
I wonder if we'd be better off in this formation with Licha playing centrally. It seems like at Sporting the central defender pushed up into midfield a lot, and he's way more comfortable doing that than De Ligt. And Licha hasn't covered himself in glory defending wide areas. I guess Maguire and Lindelof move on and it looks like this:

LCB/Shaw--------Licha/DeLigt------Yoro/Mazroaui

and we sign a left-footed CB to start there this summer, along with the LWB in January, and then hopefully a #8, a striker and maybe a #10 (or one more year of Bruno there, a runway for Garnacho).
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Only thing is teams would probably just pump the ball long and target Lichas height disadvantage. I had a thought though about Licha moving into the midfield #6 position ( I know it was discussed before, but hear me out ). In Amorim’s system, one of the CMs drops deeper, very close to the middle CB, so in theory he wouldn't be too far out of position. He would also be protected height wise by De Ligt. Now Ugarte is not an all out #6 player and has the ability to carry the ball as well as winning it, if he were to partner Martinez then he would have the licence to roam a but further forward and thus winning the ball back for us higher up the pitch, as well as having a decent pass in him to set up any attacks that present themselves. I think this set up would also give Bruno the ability to stay further forward and not isolated our #9 as much. Mazraoui could easily take up the LCB role until a replacement is found and it would offer protection for Dalots limitations.

So in theory I'd line up

Hojlund​

Garnacho Bruno​

Dalot Ugarte Martinez Amad​

Mazraoui De Ligt Yoro​

Onana​
 
AneRu said:
The De Ligt purchase bothered me too, he is not to blame for all our ills in defence but, as you say, he hasn't elevated it. I also flagged the same issues you raise. We have a problem, we lose all focus the moment a big club reject is on the market when we should be scouting for fresh talent.

It still pisses me off that we effectively bought Cole Palmer for Chelsea and for that graciousness all we have to show for it are increased medical bills. This nonsense has to stop. I am afraid this time next year, we could be talking of Osimhen and Davies in similar tones.
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I don't think Osimhen is going to work. His overall game is not good enough, imo. Plus, he seems like a mercenary. I don't want him either.
 
The problem is a massive lack of ability, particularly on the front line. In recent years our finishing has been very poor. And in recent months our chance creation has become poor. Add to that horrendous defending on set pieces and we’ve become raw meat for hyena clubs like Wolves.
 
AneRu said:
The De Ligt purchase bothered me too, he is not to blame for all our ills in defence but, as you say, he hasn't elevated it. I also flagged the same issues you raise. We have a problem, we lose all focus the moment a big club reject is on the market when we should be scouting for fresh talent.

It still pisses me off that we effectively bought Cole Palmer for Chelsea and for that graciousness all we have to show for it are increased medical bills. This nonsense has to stop. I am afraid this time next year, we could be talking of Osimhen and Davies in similar tones.
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Without De Ligt we'd be playing Johnny Evans or Lindelof regularly? De Ligt is easily better than both and better than Maguire.

Arguably with Martinez's fitness record and we haven't seen much of Yoro, that puts De Ligt as our most reliable CB.

He's been decent, not sure what you expect from him? We concede far too many chances as a team and have done for years. 1 player wont change that in a short period of time
 
A constant theme from Ruben's interviews is that he has not had the 'training time', because games are coming thick and fast, to implant in the squad the (issues mentioned in the video) surrounding tactical deployment.

There is also the realisation that inevitably some players will learn quicker/adapt quicker than others, and those players unable, or not wanting to adapt, will eventually be shown the door.

It is all about time now, the quicker things move as the manager wants, then obviously the better the chance of moving up the table; the longer it takes, the more pressures will grow, as a slide towards the relegation zone starts to become a reality.

Maybe in the January 'transfer window', Sir Jim's New Year resolution can be to find enough money down the back of the settee to bring in a few key (Ruben's ready-made type) players to give the process a boost.

Happy New Year to all our Fans, wherever you are.
 
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Champ said:
So the head coach is trying to implement a system that probably won't work with the players he currently has....
Surely adaptability has to enter the equation here? consistently doing something that doesn't work is the very definition of insanity...
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We did it again. We keep changing managers but going for managers with different philosophies. Watch us spend 600m to get the squad that fits his tactics.
 
AneRu said:
The De Ligt purchase bothered me too, he is not to blame for all our ills in defence but, as you say, he hasn't elevated it. I also flagged the same issues you raise. We have a problem, we lose all focus the moment a big club reject is on the market when we should be scouting for fresh talent.

It still pisses me off that we effectively bought Cole Palmer for Chelsea and for that graciousness all we have to show for it are increased medical bills. This nonsense has to stop. I am afraid this time next year, we could be talking of Osimhen and Davies in similar tones.
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Without De Ligt our defense has fallen apart, I don't know what people see on the pitch, but he is definitely not the issue, we would be a much worse situation without having him at the start of the season.

We got him relatively cheap and he's better than all our CB's only Yoro has a higher ceiling.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Kudos for your optimism! I’ve burnt through all of mine by now. I just think the doubts about them have gone on for too long now. This isn’t a temporary dip. They’ve underwhelmed in multiple seasons, under multiple managers. There comes a point where it becomes impossible to ignore the possibility that they’re all not good enough. Or most of them, anyway. Far too early to write off the players who joined last summer, obviously. But the rest of them have flattered to deceive for way too long at this point.
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I look at it simply.

We know individually many of these players are much better than they are showing as a collective. When you cut through the caf drama of posters thinking everyone is terrible or wanting to predict everything and then, when things go in a predictions favour, keep posting about it i.e. how x or y is not the future and is crap, the bigger picture is nowhere near as gloomy.

Amorim has managed 7 PL games, we have won 2, drawn 1 and lost 4. Looking at xG that should read 4 wins, 3 losses and no draws. By no means PL winning form, but vastly better than what we have seen. Ipswich, Arsenal and Wolves were clear losses, Bmouth and Forest we should never have lost in a million years. It's not even close on xG, we've either been clearly better or much worse for these games. I get some people hate stats but things bode well in my opinion as long as people's expectations for this season are realistic i.e. push for EL. Tonight is big, I think Newcastle are very beatable and also a team full of players we should be winding up and playing for bookings - getting any points at st james will be a big step in the right direction.
 
gulli_G said:
Without De Ligt our defense has fallen apart, I don't know what people see on the pitch, but he is definitely not the issue, we would be a much worse situation without having him at the start of the season.

We got him relatively cheap and he's better than all our CB's only Yoro has a higher ceiling.
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Craig Ward said:
Without De Ligt we'd be playing Johnny Evans or Lindelof regularly? De Ligt is easily better than both and better than Maguire.

Arguably with Martinez's fitness record and we haven't seen much of Yoro, that puts De Ligt as our most reliable CB.

He's been decent, not sure what you expect from him? We concede far too many chances as a team and have done for years. 1 player wont change that in a short period of time
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He has been fairly ok but he hasn't been the transformative signing we should have been making to replace Varane.
 
MrBest said:
I dont understand one thing, Wolves who have been toying in the bottom three all season, get a new manager, win there first 2 games scoring 6 and conceding 0. United get a new manager, cannot do anything, even against mich lower teams. The wolves players adjust to the new system, United players clearly are "struggling". The only thing that changes at United in my opinion is selling 15 to 20 players and bring it 15 to 20 players. This bunch are so pathetic and overpaid. Even if we lose another 15 this season, I hope Amorim sticks with his system, that's why we brought him in. However, he needs to cut the players who won't adapt. Adapting is sometimes a choice and not a skill, United players historically in the last 10 years have chosen to not adapt.
Onano, bayinder, Shaw, Maguire, dalot, casemiro, Bruno, erikson, rashford and many more, are all not good enough.
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The Wolves' new manager had very little influence on Bruno making a ridiculous foul 100 yards from his own goal to get a red card. That's the main reason they beat us; they'd done very little before they had a man advantage. And their other win was against Leicester, who we've also beat twice (by 3 goals each time).

Context matters.
 
I don't know much about tactics, and won't pretend to be an armchair tactician, but:

We are terrible at executing and defending set pieces.

We have no ability to keep the ball under pressure.

Players who's job it is to be especially good at passing seem to turn to shite when we need them to be good at passing.

Our attackers can't finish chances and are often found in isolated positions

Our goalkeeper makes hard work of what should be easy saves, and also makes ridiculous mistakes

Defensively we are all over the place

To a man, in every position, I'm convinced that each player needs to be replaced for Amorim to have any sort of success here​
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I look at it simply.

We know individually many of these players are much better than they are showing as a collective. When you cut through the caf drama of posters thinking everyone is terrible or wanting to predict everything and then, when things go in a predictions favour, keep posting about it i.e. how x or y is not the future and is crap, the bigger picture is nowhere near as gloomy.

Amorim has managed 7 PL games, we have won 2, drawn 1 and lost 4. Looking at xG that should read 4 wins, 3 losses and no draws. By no means PL winning form, but vastly better than what we have seen. Ipswich, Arsenal and Wolves were clear losses, Bmouth and Forest we should never have lost in a million years. It's not even close on xG, we've either been clearly better or much worse for these games. I get some people hate stats but things bode well in my opinion as long as people's expectations for this season are realistic i.e. push for EL. Tonight is big, I think Newcastle are very beatable and also a team full of players we should be winding up and playing for bookings - getting any points at st james will be a big step in the right direction.
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Ok, now we’re on the same page. I’m broadly positive about performances (if not results!) under Amorim. If it turns out he’s the right guy he’ll end up doing what all good managers tend to do, unearth a few gems that are already in the squad. I definitely don’t think all the players are as crap as they’ve looked so far this season.
 
bb8 said:
The Wolves' new manager had very little influence on Bruno making a ridiculous foul 100 yards from his own goal to get a red card. That's the main reason they beat us; they'd done very little before they had a man advantage. And their other win was against Leicester, who we've also beat twice (by 3 goals each time).

Context matters.
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The main reason they beat us was not because of Bruno. It was because these players are utterly useless. I am confident that if Bruno had not have been sent off, we would have lost anyway.
 
MrBest said:
The main reason they beat us was not because of Bruno. It was because these players are utterly useless. I am confident that if Bruno had not have been sent off, we would have lost anyway.
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Yeah, I'm sure going down to ten men had nothing to do with it. :lol: Some of y'all man, comical stuff.
 
bb8 said:
Yeah, I'm sure going down to ten men had nothing to do with it. :lol: Some of y'all man, comical stuff.
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I like the naive nature you show, wish I was the same with this team. Truth be told, I've lack of trust in this lot and today, so far, demonstrates how bad we, plus the others. 4 defeats, 2 wins and a draw in the last 7. Heading for the 5th defeat in 8. Even if we had 15 people on the pitch, we still couldn't win
 
Westerkerk said:
I don't know much about tactics, and won't pretend to be an armchair tactician, but:

We are terrible at executing and defending set pieces.​
​
We have no ability to keep the ball under pressure.​
​
Players who's job it is to be especially good at passing seem to turn to shite when we need them to be good at passing.​
​
Our attackers can't finish chances and are often found in isolated positions​
​
Our goalkeeper makes hard work of what should be easy saves, and also makes ridiculous mistakes​
​
Defensively we are all over the place​
​
To a man, in every position, I'm convinced that each player needs to be replaced for Amorim to have any sort of success here​
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Gives us a good idea of the scale of the changes needed ahead.

For me the big issue stalking us for a while now is just goals: who have we got that can actually get them? Not even a Salah, just a 2 thirds of one would be a big improvement.
 
@Hammondo

Let's not start threads with just a YT video. Posting one in an OP is fine but at least summarise the video or create a base for discussion from it. That is the purpose of the forum after all.
 
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