The Tactical Problem Amorim Is Facing at Man United

[Pogue Mahone]

So he's implementing something that they haven't worked on? That's even more insane.
Either which way you look at it, it doesn't look great.

I understand he wants to play this way, but I believe adaptability is required when things aren't working, currently we are not hard to beat, we are poor at set pieces, leaky at the back, struggle to score, with individual mistakes creeping in everywhere possibly due to the new formation.
Hopefully things turn around and quickly, and I believe Amorim is the manager to do this, however he needs to adapt for me.

Well that really is an insane take. Of course they’ve worked on it. Just not enough to deliver it at the level he wants. And just because we’re not delivering at the level he wants is no reason to completely give up.

And it goes without saying that the craziest thing in all of this criticism is that people are completely ignoring the reason he was hired in the first place. Because we were absolutely useless playing the formation/tactics you seem to think will fix this!

 

[AneRu]

Partially disagree.

Quality and confidence obviously plays a part, but we regularly see teams with inferior players play better than us. If anything, it's only rare moments of quality that has kept us above lesser teams in the league for years now.

Tactically we are not on the same level as the competition. This isn't to say Amorim's tactics are to blame, but they do have problems. Which is part squad balance/player profile, part coaching, part player intelligence. I'll judge Amorim once he's had a couple transfer windows and time to coach the squad to play his way.

This is key, I think he needs about four players to address squad balance and lack of quality issues. It's really poor of the previous regime to have learned nothing from the Antony debacle and just continued it on the Hoijlund signing. Now we have £72m tied up in a really poor player and we have invest more funds just to rectify that error.

We're currently paying the price for switching manager and tactics part way through the season.

It's really strange how our much touted football structure got this one wrong, Ten Hag failed last season and our masterplan to correct it was to go all in on him after spending a month flirting with potential replacements? Then we go for another system specific manager in the middle of the season, so far away from a transfer window and what did we expect? Just keep Ruud around, sign up Amorim to a precontract and spend the season preparing for his arrival by scouting inside 10s, wingbacks etc.

 

[711]

So he's implementing something that they haven't worked on? That's even more insane.
Either which way you look at it, it doesn't look great.

I understand he wants to play this way, but I believe adaptability is required when things aren't working, currently we are not hard to beat, we are poor at set pieces, leaky at the back, struggle to score, with individual mistakes creeping in everywhere possibly due to the new formation.
Hopefully things turn around and quickly, and I believe Amorim is the manager to do this, however he needs to adapt for me.

Yes and no. We are certainly poor at set pieces and struggle to score, but as for leaky at the back then probably not. In the last six games we have been third best in the league at conceding shots in the box, and also third best at conceding big chances, so overall I would think we have become harder to beat. A long long way to go of course, but maybe starting to turn it around after all.

 

[2 man midfield]

The biggest problem he’s facing in my opinion is inexplicable holes in the squad as a result of neglect by the previous regime. Imagine allowing Manchester United to not have a first team left back, or a senior centre forward. Anybody would struggle with that.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

What we are talking about here is how Amorim is trying to fathom a way to make this squad work to his needs. It’s not going to work. The powers that be have looked at his success in Portugal with significant wins against City and think if they get him to OT then everything is sorted. Wrong again. The fact is this squad is not going to get any better, whoever the manager is, because some of the purchases in recent times have been poor or catastrophic and overpriced. We have blown the budget under ten Haag and there is very little room for manoeuvre. The only way to correct this mess is to get some new leaders, let SJR go play with his Chemistry set and spend some time in the Championship whilst we get this whole mess sorted. If we scrape through this season and stay up I can’t see anything other than a repeat next season. At least 50 to 60 percent of this squad need moving on.

Yup. No way can this squad finish top 5, we now even struggle for top 10. If Liverpool started to play 3421 they wouldn't suddenly fall apart and need 6 months to play well because they have superior players. There is also a reason why they preferred Slot over Amorim.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

I’d say Rashford/Wout/Antony has less quality than what we have now as a front three - the workrate of two of them allowed Rashford to basically play as a wide striker. The issue is the wing backs are so attacking in Amorim’s setup and the quality there just doesn’t exist.

There’s an issue in how we attack, some is down to inexperience but a lot of it - in my mind - comes from the lack in quality of Dalot and Maz in those roles (even if I think the latter is a top player, I’m not sure he’s a great RWB long term and think he can start at RCB).

I see Mazarouri as a RCB long term - he's not a winger. Amorims system uses a high winger to hug the touchline on both sides, to create space inside for the forwards - the front three which are built around highly technical 10s and a channel chasing lung-busting No 9. They're not traditional wing backs who seek to defend primarily as you note. Mazaroui is a top player perhaps - but he's a full back or wing back - not a winger and so shouldn't be used as such. He is a very competent technical right sided centre back who could form a long term partnership with de Ligt and Maguire - and eventually Yoro as he matures.

 

[noodlehair]

Long winded way of pointing out that Dalot is stupid

 

[Insanity]

The biggest problem he’s facing in my opinion is inexplicable holes in the squad as a result of neglect by the previous regime. Imagine allowing Manchester United to not have a first team left back, or a senior centre forward. Anybody would struggle with that.

It is amazing that we didn't want to invest in a LB this past window given our struggles with the position last season. We repeated the same stupid mistake we made in January window last year by letting Reguilon go without signing anybody else. We knew this summer that Shaw is fecked after the Euros and Malacia hasn't played in 18 months but still decided to neglect the position.

The striker is another one. We needed an experienced striker as it was clearly evident that Rasmus is not ready to lead the line. But somehow we decided to buy some kind of hybrid-False 9-maybe a 10-Bayern reject from the Serie A.

It's hard to get your head around some of the decisions this club makes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Long winded way of pointing out that Dalot is stupid

 

[Garethw]

We have a huge mentality issue within the squad. This has been apparent under multiple managers. We always start so slow and then increase the intensity ten fold when we concede. Why not start with a high intensity in the first place? It’s so frustrating!

These players seem to think that just showing up should be enough to win games. Look at Liverpool, they take nothing for granted and work bloody hard from the first to the last minute. If that’s a fitness issue then these players should be bloody ashamed of themselves!

 

[tomaldinho1]

Anything good we’ve ever achieved with this bunch of players has been due to one off spectacular seasons from Rashford and/or Casemiro (special mention to Varane’s last hurrah, as well). Without those two (three?) putting in a massive outlier of a performance (and we know it’s an outlier because they both reverted to type in the same season as their best few months of form) we’ve no reason to expect a campaign anywhere near as good as that 3rd place again. Otherwise how else do you explain us getting steadily worse, season by season, while ETH was still in charge?

All we’ve done under Amorim is maintain the terrible form we’ve established since the beginning of this season. But at least we have a change in approach which might yield dividends in the longer term. Because we were going absolutely nowhere good if we continued with the previous approach.

I don’t agree. Previously we played a simple style of football which is basically risk adverse and focused on counter attacking - we threw money at that style broadly for many seasons, often going for old strikers who used to be great because, I guess, they were clinical and could create stuff out of nothing. All of our trophies since SAF bar LVG’s fa cup have been won with that style. It is short term and never going to push us into the elite, and so it has proved.

This group is ready to be taken to the next level, there are good technical players throughout the team and all the mistakes we bemoan happen everywhere else as well. We have some fundamental flaws that Amorim needs to address, the lack of aggression/defence for set pieces being one that can be fixed quickly, as well as others but there’s no way we’re a squad who should be any lower than where we finished last season.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Most supporters don't really understand what they are watching. They don't understand what is hard to do and what isn't, if they haven't played the game to any sort of level (and I include decently organised amateur football in that), and they don't understand what good and bad decision making looks like.

I think that's why many are obsessed with "highlight reel" plays like big blockbuster tackles or goal-saving tackles, dribbling and long distance shots.

I think there are some basics we get badly wrong on the regular...

1) Passes not hit with the right pace / weight. This is inexcusable and comes from a lack of self-confidence but also a lack of confidence in your teammates. This takes all the pace out of our attacks and allows opponents to set themselves. Some of it comes from not having an understanding with your teammates i.e. where they will run, how they want to receive the ball. This is why Amorim needs to stop chopping and changing now. We need to see partnerships and patterns being developed.

2) Duels lost. We lose far too many 50:50 and 60:40 duels. We have a tonne of players who just don't know how to fight for the ball effectively without fouling by using their bodies and going into tackles with 100% commitment. You can't sustain attacks and prevent counters if you lose too many duels. We need to weed out the weak who simply don't have the physicality to play at the top level.

3) Defenders too deep, Onana too deep. I have never understood why we haven't remedied this. Move them all ten yards further up the pitch and have Onana sweep. I thought we were buying the perfect sweeper keeper, but he hardly leaves his box - must be tactical. It makes it so much easier to sustain attacks if we're squeezing right up the pitch.

4) Hopeless crosses. Our players are not patient enough. After making a few passes and running into a set defence, they will aimlessly throw a cross in. I absolutely hate this. We have nobody who can actually win / score an attacking header, so even if we had David Beckham whipping them in, it's a poor, lazy choice when the opposition back four is set and we have nobody to attack it. Its wasteful and stops us sustaining attacks.

5) Hopeless shots. See above. We shoot from outside the box far, far too often. Someone will pop up with some stats about "how we only shoot x compared to y" but I don't care. My eye test tells me that all of our attackers are a mixture of selfish and slightly brainless, in that all they want to do is work half a yard to blast it mindlessly at goal. Amad, Rashford, Antony and Garnacho only want to cut-in and blast it. Fernandes often shoots from ridiculous range. Even Dalot is a massive culprit. We need to stamp this out. Its wasteful and stops us sustaining attacks. In fact, this would be the number one thing I'd cut out, and it frustrates me so much that we never do anything about it. I'd tell the players - until the end of the season, no shooting from outside the box. If they then DID shoot from outside the box...immediate substitution, no ifs, no buts. In the long run, I accept that shooting from outside the box is a useful tool, but until I can trust players to consider all options properly, I am banning it.

6) Terrible set-piece defending. I really don't know what's going on here...why was nobody protecting Onana and Bayindir vs Wolves / Spurs? That's the oldest tactic in the book, have a man shove opponents away from the GK. Why don't we have anybody on the posts? Why do we always have tiny, weak players blocking the opponents biggest and best headers? Most teams will only have one or two players who are a genuine threat at set-pieces. The rest are a distraction. Ignore all the nonsense going on and mark the two best headers...i.e. if it's Arsenal..forget all that other nonsense...two best blockers on Saliba and Gabriel. I don't care if Trossard, Martinelli or Saka get half a yard...they'd miss 99/100 headers anyway.

Broadly fair points. Passing accuracy and speed has riled me for years with us, the players work so hard to get teams shuffling across the pitch and then play a mediocre pass which then negates that hard work immediately. 50/50s I’m not sure on, I reckon our core players are just less athletic and often late to the ball.

Most of these things can be tuned and worked on, although I’m not sure Bruno will ever stop losing his head and going for stupid shots when we’re losing, but the set piece point is what I really don’t get. We offer zero protection to the GK, even though we know the refs generally are weak as piss when it comes to penalising a player for contact unless it’s too obvious to ignore. We are so meek and friendly when the opposition are crowding us, there no one vocal in there giving the ref grief or shoving an opponent away from our goal line. I thought De Ligt was going to be way more aggressive in this aspect and hoped some of it might run off on Maguire (those two should really be dominating corners defensively).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don’t agree. Previously we played a simple style of football which is basically risk adverse and focused on counter attacking - we threw money at that style broadly for many seasons, often going for old strikers who used to be great because, I guess, they were clinical and could create stuff out of nothing. All of our trophies since SAF bar LVG’s fa cup have been won with that style. It is short term and never going to push us into the elite, and so it has proved.

This group is ready to be taken to the next level, there are good technical players throughout the team and all the mistakes we bemoan happen everywhere else as well. We have some fundamental flaws that Amorim needs to address, the lack of aggression/defence for set pieces being one that can be fixed quickly, as well as others but there’s no way we’re a squad who should be any lower than where we finished last season.

I do think the squad has potential but the age profile is a huge issue (I even started a thread about it!). Without Rashford or Casemiro carrying us, who are the peak age players that will drive this team up the table in their absence? In the absence of top class peak age players taking us to the next level I don't see this squad being any better than mid-table. The most likely to do this are the likes of De Ligt and Ugarte but I'd say they're a year or two away from being able to do that. I don't see anyone else stepping up meanwhile

 

[Lentwood]

Broadly fair points. Passing accuracy and speed has riled me for years with us, the players work so hard to get teams shuffling across the pitch and then play a mediocre pass which then negates that hard work immediately. 50/50s I’m not sure on, I reckon our core players are just less athletic and often late to the ball.

Most of these things can be tuned and worked on, although I’m not sure Bruno will ever stop losing his head and going for stupid shots when we’re losing, but the set piece point is what I really don’t get. We offer zero protection to the GK, even though we know the refs generally are weak as piss when it comes to penalising a player for contact unless it’s too obvious to ignore. We are so meek and friendly when the opposition are crowding us, there no one vocal in there giving the ref grief or shoving an opponent away from our goal line. I thought De Ligt was going to be way more aggressive in this aspect and hoped some of it might run off on Maguire (those two should really be dominating corners defensively).

We're appalling at the "dark arts". We should be wrestling, grappling, pinching, pushing, stamping on feet etc...at every set-piece, but we're so passive. When two players crowd our goalkeeper, he should be standing on their feet and/or forcibly shoving them with two hands to clear his space* (*before the ball is kicked it will never, ever be given a foul)

It's men against boys half the time. When I see someone like Mainoo, Zirkzee or Hojlund blocking Gabriel or Saliba, I feel like we might as well just give Arsenal a 0-1 headstart. Little naive kids trying to mark hardened veterans.

Blockers don't have to be tall but they have to be cunning and willing to ruffle a few feathers. Martinez and Ugarte could do this. Also, be clever...if you're pushed, throw yourself over, referees are suckers for giving soft fouls under any kind of contact in the box. When you're blocking, don't put your arm out and pull shirts or grapple because thats a recipe for disaster, stand a yard off the player and step right into their path when they start their run. You will never, ever, ever be penalised for that, ever. It's basics that you learn as kids that we don't do.

 

[M16Red]

I have no idea when this was filmed, but Ronnie is right, we've changed almost everything. It's depressing.

 

[Beachryan]

Most supporters don't really understand what they are watching. They don't understand what is hard to do and what isn't, if they haven't played the game to any sort of level (and I include decently organised amateur football in that), and they don't understand what good and bad decision making looks like.

I think that's why many are obsessed with "highlight reel" plays like big blockbuster tackles or goal-saving tackles, dribbling and long distance shots.

I think there are some basics we get badly wrong on the regular...

1) Passes not hit with the right pace / weight. This is inexcusable and comes from a lack of self-confidence but also a lack of confidence in your teammates. This takes all the pace out of our attacks and allows opponents to set themselves. Some of it comes from not having an understanding with your teammates i.e. where they will run, how they want to receive the ball. This is why Amorim needs to stop chopping and changing now. We need to see partnerships and patterns being developed.

2) Duels lost. We lose far too many 50:50 and 60:40 duels. We have a tonne of players who just don't know how to fight for the ball effectively without fouling by using their bodies and going into tackles with 100% commitment. You can't sustain attacks and prevent counters if you lose too many duels. We need to weed out the weak who simply don't have the physicality to play at the top level.

3) Defenders too deep, Onana too deep. I have never understood why we haven't remedied this. Move them all ten yards further up the pitch and have Onana sweep. I thought we were buying the perfect sweeper keeper, but he hardly leaves his box - must be tactical. It makes it so much easier to sustain attacks if we're squeezing right up the pitch.

4) Hopeless crosses. Our players are not patient enough. After making a few passes and running into a set defence, they will aimlessly throw a cross in. I absolutely hate this. We have nobody who can actually win / score an attacking header, so even if we had David Beckham whipping them in, it's a poor, lazy choice when the opposition back four is set and we have nobody to attack it. Its wasteful and stops us sustaining attacks.

5) Hopeless shots. See above. We shoot from outside the box far, far too often. Someone will pop up with some stats about "how we only shoot x compared to y" but I don't care. My eye test tells me that all of our attackers are a mixture of selfish and slightly brainless, in that all they want to do is work half a yard to blast it mindlessly at goal. Amad, Rashford, Antony and Garnacho only want to cut-in and blast it. Fernandes often shoots from ridiculous range. Even Dalot is a massive culprit. We need to stamp this out. Its wasteful and stops us sustaining attacks. In fact, this would be the number one thing I'd cut out, and it frustrates me so much that we never do anything about it. I'd tell the players - until the end of the season, no shooting from outside the box. If they then DID shoot from outside the box...immediate substitution, no ifs, no buts. In the long run, I accept that shooting from outside the box is a useful tool, but until I can trust players to consider all options properly, I am banning it.

6) Terrible set-piece defending. I really don't know what's going on here...why was nobody protecting Onana and Bayindir vs Wolves / Spurs? That's the oldest tactic in the book, have a man shove opponents away from the GK. Why don't we have anybody on the posts? Why do we always have tiny, weak players blocking the opponents biggest and best headers? Most teams will only have one or two players who are a genuine threat at set-pieces. The rest are a distraction. Ignore all the nonsense going on and mark the two best headers...i.e. if it's Arsenal..forget all that other nonsense...two best blockers on Saliba and Gabriel. I don't care if Trossard, Martinelli or Saka get half a yard...they'd miss 99/100 headers anyway.

This is spot on imo. Particularly the 1st one. We're just so sloppy. Even against Wolves - the third bottom team - their passing was crisper, and better-placed for players to run onto it. Bruno essentially got sent off because Dalot couldn't be bothered to pass it properly. The number of times you see our midfielders/attackers have to stop and wati for the ball to get to them, instead of being played into space is shocking.

 

[AneRu]

It is amazing that we didn't want to invest in a LB this past window given our struggles with the position last season. We repeated the same stupid mistake we made in January window last year by letting Reguilon go without signing anybody else. We knew this summer that Shaw is fecked after the Euros and Malacia hasn't played in 18 months but still decided to neglect the position.

The striker is another one. We needed an experienced striker as it was clearly evident that Rasmus is not ready to lead the line. But somehow we decided to buy some kind of hybrid-False 9-maybe a 10-Bayern reject from the Serie A.

It's hard to get your head around some of the decisions this club makes.

I think we were a bit too optimistic on Shaw and Hoijlund. I don't think anyone would have thought Shaw would play so little football in 2024 as he has and most people thought Hoijlund would kick on. So having Maz and Dalot who could play LB and a squad option in Zirkzee and Rashy made sense.

The mistake I think we made, was in spending £60m on Yoro, when we needed so much elsewhere. The £100m spent on Zirkzee and Yoro can buy you a real game changer, be it a wing forward, a CM or a striker. Technical CBs with pace aren't as scarce or as game changing to a team finishing 8th as a striker would have been. We have no business spending eye watering amounts for 18 Yr olds in our current state.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think we were a bit too optimistic on Shaw and Hoijlund. I don't think anyone would have thought Shaw would play so little football in 2024 as he has and most people thought Hoijlund would kick on. So having Maz and Dalot who could play LB and a squad option in Zirkzee and Rashy made sense.

The mistake I think we made, was in spending £60m on Yoro, when we needed so much elsewhere. The £100m spent on Zirkzee and Yoro can buy you a real game changer, be it a wing forward, a CM or a striker. Technical CBs with pace aren't as scarce or as game changing to a team finishing 8th as a striker would have been. We have no business spending eye watering amounts for 18 Yr olds in our current state.

Yoro would have been a brilliant investment for a team with a strong, functional squad with a good age profile to begin with. It definitely makes sense to snap up potentially generational talents whenever they’re available but it makes no sense at all spending huge money on them when you have gaping holes in other areas of your squad and not enough money to fill them as well as signing the talented youngster.

 

[ole@thewheel]

We just don't have the quality, it is as simple as that. Formation may be partially and temporarily a problem, but that doesn't change my first point.

 

[Herschel Krustofsky]

But football at the highest level is about automatisms.

This is sad, and makes it dull (to me).

Possession based football isn’t very exciting - look at us under LvG, or * under Guardiola. You wouldn’t go out of your way to watch it.

Wouldn’t e surprised if the rise of the Srat obsessives isn’t in some way linked to the prevalence of dull possession based football. An attempt to find interest in a sport otherwise lacking.

Fully expect, when Amorim starts to finally bedding everything , the ‘boring football’ complaints to start infiltrating the Caf.

I’ll stop shouting at the clouds now!!

 

[AneRu]

Yoro would have been a brilliant investment for a team with a strong, functional squad with a good age profile to begin with. It definitely makes sense to snap up potentially generational talents whenever they’re available but it makes no sense at all spending huge money on them when you have gaping holes in other areas of your squad and not enough money to fill them as well as signing the talented youngster.

Exactly plus we have a good youth system, who is to say that in the two to three years that Yoro would need to grow into his own, we won't have a prodigy of our own coming through. Another thing is that we will go through his growing pains, losing points and trophies, then Madrid can just come and snap him up, exploiting a contractual situation like they are doing these days.

 

[NewbieRed]

Interesting video. The gist of it is that some coaches allow players to roam around the pitch a lot while others demand they hold their position. Amorim demands that players hold their position - in fact, he comes second in the world for coaches on this metric. It's particularly important to him that players keep to their position laterally. They can move up and down the pitch but he doesn't want a left-sided player popping up on the right at any stage.

My instinct is this sounds stifling and a bit boring. But obviously he made it work at Sporting and they played attractive football, passed the ball well and scored lots of goals. I suppose it's a counterintuitive thing, and when the players have certainty about where everyone's going to be they eventually get much better at moving the ball around.

 

[Varane around town]

The problem Amorim is facing is that he's inherited a squad that's been put together appallingly. For a decade our transfer policy has been 'Buy the current manager the players he wants' so we've ended up with a squad of...

Overpriced tat that Ten Hag used to work with such as Antony and Onana

Players with appalling attitudes who've been hyped up beyond their abilities, looking at you Marcus.

Players whose best days are long gone, Casemiro and Eriksen.

Players who'll never ever be fit enough to play a full season, Mount and Shaw.

Players who have good attitudes and limited ability, Maguire and Dalot,

and then there's a few diamonds like Amad, Holjund and Mazraoui,

Anyway, I'm a big fan of Amorim. We're going to have to suck it up and accept that this season is a disaster, we'll almost certainly miss out on Europe altogether. Then Amorim will have had two windows and fewer games next to season to- hopefully- get it right.

 

[NoPace]

not a bad idea, I could see it working.

I forgot to add that when I watched Ajax near the end of his time there, I remember a lot of the time it was basically a back 3 with Blind and Timber either side of a dead center Lisandro, with Alvarez in front of him almost making a diamond, because I remember thinking it was interesting that Ten Hag went with the taller guy as the DM/stopper/sweeper call it whatever you want based on your age/nationality and the shorter fella as the deepest CB.

 

[tomaldinho1]

I do think the squad has potential but the age profile is a huge issue (I even started a thread about it!). Without Rashford or Casemiro carrying us, who are the peak age players that will drive this team up the table in their absence? In the absence of top class peak age players taking us to the next level I don't see this squad being any better than mid-table. The most likely to do this are the likes of De Ligt and Ugarte but I'd say they're a year or two away from being able to do that. I don't see anyone else stepping up meanwhile

The next generation pushing through now should be Licha, De Ligt, Maz, Rashford, Dalot (mid to late twenties, internationals, very good players on their day) with Bruno, Maguire being the experienced guys with that. It’s really not a poor group of players, some of them individually I think are great but we have a very young attack and it’s compounded by Amorims attack being reliant on WBs where we shoehorn players in. The more I think about it, the more I like the core being built up - those players, Ugarte, Hojlund, Amad they all have much more bite and aggression than previous squads where there were so many meek characters. Amorim needs to find a solution with the WBs to survive this season and then really address it in the summer. I think the quality is actually there but some obvious things need to happen; Case/Ugarte should be the pair, Mainoo/Amad should be the 10s with Bruno/Mount injured.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The next generation pushing through now should be Licha, De Ligt, Maz, Rashford, Dalot (mid to late twenties, internationals, very good players on their day) with Bruno, Maguire being the experienced guys with that. It’s really not a poor group of players, some of them individually I think are great but we have a very young attack and it’s compounded by Amorims attack being reliant on WBs where we shoehorn players in. The more I think about it, the more I like the core being built up - those players, Ugarte, Hojlund, Amad they all have much more bite and aggression than previous squads where there were so many meek characters. Amorim needs to find a solution with the WBs to survive this season and then really address it in the summer. I think the quality is actually there but some obvious things need to happen; Case/Ugarte should be the pair, Mainoo/Amad should be the 10s with Bruno/Mount injured.

Out of those seven players who are supposed to be the peak age core of our team there are either huge (and legitimate) question marks about whether they really are good enough and/or this is their first season in the league. Which says it all really.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Out of those six players who are supposed to be the mainstay of our team there are either huge (and legitimate) question marks about whether they really are good enough and/or this is their first season in the league. Which says it all really.

I think they are all good players, even Dalot who frustrates the hell out of me, we’re just in bad form and so apparently everyone is now crap and needs to be sold. The night is darkest before the dawn.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think they are all good players, even Dalot who frustrates the hell out of me, we’re just in bad form and so apparently everyone is now crap and needs to be sold. The night is darkest before the dawn.

Kudos for your optimism! I’ve burnt through all of mine by now. I just think the doubts about them have gone on for too long now. This isn’t a temporary dip. They’ve underwhelmed in multiple seasons, under multiple managers. There comes a point where it becomes impossible to ignore the possibility that they’re all not good enough. Or most of them, anyway. Far too early to write off the players who joined last summer, obviously. But the rest of them have flattered to deceive for way too long at this point.

 

[Insanity]

I think we were a bit too optimistic on Shaw and Hoijlund. I don't think anyone would have thought Shaw would play so little football in 2024 as he has and most people thought Hoijlund would kick on. So having Maz and Dalot who could play LB and a squad option in Zirkzee and Rashy made sense.

The mistake I think we made, was in spending £60m on Yoro, when we needed so much elsewhere. The £100m spent on Zirkzee and Yoro can buy you a real game changer, be it a wing forward, a CM or a striker. Technical CBs with pace aren't as scarce or as game changing to a team finishing 8th as a striker would have been. We have no business spending eye watering amounts for 18 Yr olds in our current state.

That has been one of the problems at the club the last 12 seasons: living on hope. Giving Shaw's injury history it would have been stupid to rely on him being a back-up and we thought we could rely on him as a starter. As for Hojlund, anyone who knows a little bit about football could have told them that his overall game is terrible and there is no way he would improve it enough to be a starter for this club right now.

More than Yoro, the money spent on a high wage earning big club reject is the issue for me. I didn't mind us getting a hot young prospect for our defense but going for de Ligt really bothered me. And so far he hasn't made any discernible improvement to our defense. With him in the line-up we still face the struggles we have been facing for years with regards to the lack of pace, strength and ability on the ball.

We have made mind-boggling decision and decision these last 12 years and it's sad to see they are still continuing.

 

[AR87]

So he's implementing something that they haven't worked on? That's even more insane.
Either which way you look at it, it doesn't look great.

I understand he wants to play this way, but I believe adaptability is required when things aren't working, currently we are not hard to beat, we are poor at set pieces, leaky at the back, struggle to score, with individual mistakes creeping in everywhere possibly due to the new formation.
Hopefully things turn around and quickly, and I believe Amorim is the manager to do this, however he needs to adapt for me.

Adapting to this group of players, a vast majority of whom I doubt Amorim or INEOS view as capable of being part of a competitive and contending United squad in the long-term in order to gain short-term results would be a massive error.

Install your system and principles, stay true to them, and see who can adapt and who is entirely incapable. That should be the primary focus over the course of the rest of this season, installation of Amorim's system and style of play and improved execution of it as we go along while evaluating who will sink or swim.

 

[Hammondo]

Adapting to this group of players, a vast majority of whom I doubt Amorim or INEOS view of a competitive and contending United squad in the long-term in order to gain short-term results would be a massive error.

Install your system and principles, stay true to them, and see who can adapt and who is entirely incapable. That should be the primary focus over the course of the rest of this season, installation of Amorim's system and style of play and improved execution of it as we go along while evaluating who will sink or swim.

Agreed.

 

[AneRu]

That has been one of the problems at the club the last 12 seasons: living on hope. Giving Shaw's injury history it would have been stupid to rely on him being a back-up and we thought we could rely on him as a starter. As for Hojlund, anyone who knows a little bit about football could have told them that his overall game is terrible and there is no way he would improve it enough to be a starter for this club right now.

More than Yoro, the money spent on a high wage earning big club reject is the issue for me. I didn't mind us getting a hot young prospect for our defense but going for de Ligt really bothered me. And so far he hasn't made any discernible improvement to our defense. With him in the line-up we still face the struggles we have been facing for years with regards to the lack of pace, strength and ability on the ball.

We have made mind-boggling decision and decision these last 12 years and it's sad to see they are still continuing.

The De Ligt purchase bothered me too, he is not to blame for all our ills in defence but, as you say, he hasn't elevated it. I also flagged the same issues you raise. We have a problem, we lose all focus the moment a big club reject is on the market when we should be scouting for fresh talent.

It still pisses me off that we effectively bought Cole Palmer for Chelsea and for that graciousness all we have to show for it are increased medical bills. This nonsense has to stop. I am afraid this time next year, we could be talking of Osimhen and Davies in similar tones.

 

[Champ]

Well that really is an insane take. Of course they’ve worked on it. Just not enough to deliver it at the level he wants. And just because we’re not delivering at the level he wants is no reason to completely give up.

And it goes without saying that the craziest thing in all of this criticism is that people are completely ignoring the reason he was hired in the first place. Because we were absolutely useless playing the formation/tactics you seem to think will fix this!

I'm not saying to completely give up, I'm suggesting adapting and having some flexibility in the tactics players to possibly make it more comfortable for the players.
They don't look comfortable so far and that is possibly having an impact on the number of individual errors creeping in.
It's not a binary all or nothing situation here.

 

[FortunaUtd]

That was very good from Amorim. It was clearly a dumb shithousing question and he handled it with the appropriate smirk and wink (in the full video) to signal he knew exactly what the journo was trying.

By the way who was that journalist asking? Something about his ridiculous blasé tone and the stupidity pouring through between the words makes me think it was Luckhurst.

 

[DJ_21]

I think they are all good players, even Dalot who frustrates the hell out of me, we’re just in bad form and so apparently everyone is now crap and needs to be sold. The night is darkest before the dawn.

Dalot can’t cross a ball to save his life. Be alright for a cover player but shouldn’t be starting for any top club. The Wing backs we need to be targeting are players like Nuno Mendes, Jeremie Frimpong, these 2 will take us up a level. Even Dumfries from inter, cheaper option.

 

[justsomebloke]

So he's implementing something that they haven't worked on? That's even more insane.
Either which way you look at it, it doesn't look great.

I understand he wants to play this way, but I believe adaptability is required when things aren't working, currently we are not hard to beat, we are poor at set pieces, leaky at the back, struggle to score, with individual mistakes creeping in everywhere possibly due to the new formation.
Hopefully things turn around and quickly, and I believe Amorim is the manager to do this, however he needs to adapt for me.

Completely disagree. If you do that, you just get stuck in mitigation, it's not a way forward. It's what you do if you're fighting to avoid relegation, otherwise it's just short-sighted. Also, needless to say, if that's what we wanted to do, we hired the wrong manager. He's been totally clear from the outset he wasn't going to do that.

 

[DJ_21]

One of his main tactical problems is set pieces. I don’t think we conceded any this season under ETH. Amorim changed the set piece coach and now we’re conceding of every one.

 

[daveskimufc]

There must be wingers in the U21s that are close to first team that can be given minutes. Kids will run all day so asking them to stay wide and cross isn't going to ask too much if them, they're not going to be left 1on1 at the back. Anyone can see a left footer is needed at lwb. Dalot cuts back EVERY sodding time.

I mean if Antony feels like he wants be a utd player he should be screaming for a shot in this position. He defends well and the impetus on him to cut in on his left is gone so he can cross and cross and cross all game

 

[Joseunited]

Adapting to this group of players, a vast majority of whom I doubt Amorim or INEOS view as capable of being part of a competitive and contending United squad in the long-term in order to gain short-term results would be a massive error.

Install your system and principles, stay true to them, and see who can adapt and who is entirely incapable. That should be the primary focus over the course of the rest of this season, installation of Amorim's system and style of play and improved execution of it as we go along while evaluating who will sink or swim.

That's what he's doing,finding out who can actually adapt to his style(not many).Just make sure we stay in the league and then start bringing in the players he needs to get us back up the right end of the table.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Dalot can’t cross a ball to save his life. Be alright for a cover player but shouldn’t be starting for any top club. The Wing backs we need to be targeting are players like Nuno Mendes, Jeremie Frimpong, these 2 will take us up a level. Even Dumfries from inter, cheaper option.

Exactly. The WB issue is really what changes us in attack. People need to think of them more like wingers, at the moment we have Maz (very good RB, dependable LB cover) and Dalot (good RB, general utility fb) who do their best but simply aren’t wing backs. I think quality wise though there is a lot of talent through the centre of the team now, two top WBs and we will look so much more dangerous.