The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[Klopper76]

Total Shots 15/16 (per game)​

1. Tottenham 17.3
2. Liverpool 16.6
3. Manchester City 16.2
4. Arsenal 15.1
5. West Ham 14.7
6. Chelsea 13.8

Total Shots In Penalty Area 15/16 (per game)​

1. Arsenal 9.5
2. Manchester City 8.9
3. Tottenham 8.5
4. Liverpool 8.1
5. Southampton 7.9
6. Leicester 7.6

Shots On Target 15/16 (per game)​

1. Tottenham 6.6
2. Arsenal 5.6
3. Manchester City 5.5
4. Liverpool 5.3
5. West Ham 4.9
6. Leicester 4.7

Goals Scored 15/16​

1. Manchester City 71
2. Tottenham 68
3. Leicester 67
4. West Ham 64
5. Arsenal 62
6. Liverpool 62

Key Passes 15/16​

1. Tottenham 501
2. Liverpool 497
3. Manchester City 479
4. Arsenal 469
5. West Ham 427
6. Chelsea 404

We'd be a decent side if we had a better defence. Pochettino has definitely got them clicking up front when it comes to creating goal scoring opportunities.

 

[GlastonSpur]

... When you look at the huge improvement in their defense but then take into consideration their slow start to the season it puts it into perspective that nobody should really be under estimating Spurs. ...

Thanks for the analysis (which I haven't quoted it in full both to save space and because I only want to respond on the above sentence) ... it's good to have considered contributions rather than throw-away "Spurs are crap" type comments.

My worry for the season start is that we might well again will start slowly, because Dembele is suspended for the first 4 games and Alli for the first two. That's two key players missing from our midfield, but perhaps Wanyama will help to partially plug the gap.

Vertonghen looks like he'll miss the start also, due to injury, but I'm less concerned about that because Wimmer was a very able replacement when needed last season.

 

[baanke laal]

Far better than the imbeciles that have incredibly reached the top of other clubs like Liverpool and Utd.

You can accuse Ed Woodward of many things but can not call him incompetent. He has tuned United into a money making machine & has been delivering most of the signings (big or small) the managers have asked for.

Liverpool on the other hand

 

[Akshay]

It's far more likely that Pochettino is sacked by February than it is that he's competing at the top of the table.

Spurs last year remind me of Liverpool when they finished 2nd. Absolutely everything going in their favour and they still don't win it. I'd say next season they're behind United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Liverpool. Alongside West Ham and Everton they'll be battling for 6th.

Liverpool lost Suarez though, who was their best player by a mile. Spurs are keeping the same team, and even if there will be more competition next season, I think they've got a decent shot at top 4. Chelsea might take a while to recover from last season's horror showing and no one really knows how good Leicester will still be.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

I'll be surprised if they finish in the top 6. Will be shocked if they finish above more than one of Leicester, Man United, Man City, Liverpool and even Chelsea. And we know there's zero chance of them finishing above Arsenal.

Well being a goon, you would say that wouldn't you. They've finished 5th or better (bar one), for the last umpteen seasons so it seems to me you assumption is totally groundless. As for Liverpool, spurs have finished above them for seven of the last eight seasons. The one exception being the "Suarez" year.

 

[Mark_Barca]

Spurs will be in the mix, I think some people think they will just go away and that won't happen.

Spurs, city, Utd, arse, pool, west ham and Chelsea will be up there. Going to be a great season.

Are you suggesting Spurs, Liverpool and WHU will be competing for the title next season?

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

I really rate Alli and Kane. Both were terrible at the euros but it's never fair to judge players in an England shirt, it's very rare that English players can replicate domestic form in international football and a lot of that has to do with mismanagement imo. I think both will have really good seasons.

I think Tottenham need to add some quality, they have the basis of a really good team but they lack that little bit extra, which would have won them the league last season. Lamela was actually impressive last season but he doesn't score enough (at least domestically), Son Heung-min has talent but doesn't score, Dembele is a great player who doesn't score, Chadli is average but has scored a decent amount before but the goals dried up last season. Even Eriksen who is very talented doesn't score, they need to add more goals to their side if they want to stay in the top 4. I know they're close to signing Janssen but in the system Tottenham play will they be able to field him and Kane in the same 11?

That's a lot of players you listed as "don't score". Spurs scored 69 goals last season, second highest in the PL. Who do you think scored all those goals then? Kane only scored 25 of them.

 

[bio202]

You can accuse Ed Woodward of many things but can not call him incompetent. He has tuned United into a money making machine & has been delivering most of the signings (big or small) the managers have asked for.

Liverpool on the other hand

I never called him incompetent, I called him an imbecile. The guy tells everyone he's jetting off to do some important business for the club. (From the USA two/three years ago) Then proceeds to feck it up. Levy on the other hand goes about his business in a much more professional manner.

As regards the Liverpool dig....I had just made the same point.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

It's far more likely that Pochettino is sacked by February than it is that he's competing at the top of the table.

Spurs last year remind me of Liverpool when they finished 2nd. Absolutely everything going in their favour and they still don't win it. I'd say next season they're behind United, Chelsea, City, Arsenal and Liverpool. Alongside West Ham and Everton they'll be battling for 6th.

 

[Mark_Barca]

So far Spurs look to be adding depth to their squad rather than improving the starting XI but tbh it's hard to see how they can improve their XI without signing players who have historically been out of their reach

There's players out there that would have been upgrades on Walker, Rose, Dembele, Lamela and Eriksen IMO.

 

[baanke laal]

I never called him incompetent, I called him an imbecile. The guy tells everyone he's jetting off to do some important business for the club. (From the USA two/three years ago) Then proceeds to feck it up. Levy on the other hand goes about his business in a much more professional manner.

As regards the Liverpool dig....I had just made the same point.

That was three years ago when he was just appointed along with Moyes, he has done brilliantly in terms of revenue and signing the players managers wanted since then. In fact, last window and this window, the press did not even have sniff till we signed our targets & broke the stories.

 

[Woodenlung]

Mousse Dembele is being horrendously underrated here. He's mint.

Only real weaknesses I see are at full back. Don't think Walker or Rose are very useful.

 

[bio202]

Are you suggesting Spurs, Liverpool and WHU will be competing for the title next season?

Not necessarily but top four I believe they will and maybe not all of them.

Are you saying for certain Utd, city and Chelsea will?

Do you think each and every one of those three teams will hit the ground running next season? I wouldn't bet against at least one of them having a mare.

 

[Mark_Barca]

Not necessarily but top four I believe they will and maybe not all of them.

Are you saying for certain Utd, city and Chelsea will?

Do you think each and every one of those three teams will hit the ground running next season? I wouldn't bet against at least one of them having a mare.

Fair enough, wasn't sure what you meant, hence asking the question.

Not certain at all mate, but I do think all three will make the top 4. It's certainly plausible that one has a poor season. Wouldn't surprise me if come Feb/Mar it's realistically only two teams competing for the league title though.

 

[bio202]

That was three years ago when he was just appointed along with Moyes, he has done brilliantly in terms of revenue and signing the players managers wanted since then. In fact, last window and this window, the press did not even have sniff till we signed our targets & broke the stories.

You mean like Pogba? I haven't heard anything about that one......oh wait. Mkhitarayn on the other hand was well quiet. Erm

 

[bio202]

Fair enough, wasn't sure what you meant, hence asking the question.

Not certain at all mate, but I do think all three will make the top 4. It's certainly plausible that one has a poor season. Wouldn't surprise me if come Feb/Mar it's realistically only two teams competing for the league title though.

I'm not the first to say it but it's going to be a fantastic season. Mega games every weekend.

 

[baanke laal]

You mean like Pogba? I haven't heard anything about that one......oh wait. Mkhitarayn on the other hand was well quiet. Erm

Bastian, Schniederlin, Bailly, Blind, Falcao, Martial etc.

Mkhitaryan news was broken by his agent, until that time nobody had a sniff and the press was going on about Arsenal signing him. Pogba is a high profile transfer, it's going to be discussed and speculated, are you trying to say no article should come out till he pens the deal. Does it happen with other clubs?

 

[bio202]

Bastian, Schniederlin, Bailly, Blind, Falcao etc.

Mkhitaryan news was broken by his agent, until that time nobody had a sniff and the press was going on about Arsenal signing him. Pogba is a high profile transfer, it's going to be discussed and speculated, are you trying to say no article should come out till he pens the deal. Does it happen with other clubs?

OK, where does "Manchester United are willing to pay £100 million for Pogba" come from? I'm running out of posts as a newbie btw

 

[bosnian_red]

Think they will miss out on top 4 but will compete for it. No chance for a title challenge ahead of city, chelsea or united though. Also we've seen many times how young players like dele alli struggle a bit after international tournaments and in their 2nd seasons. Also being in the champions league might distract them compared to liverpool and chelsea who have no Europe. My guess is 6th.

 

[baanke laal]

OK, where does "Manchester United are willing to pay £100 million for Pogba" come from? I'm running out of posts as a newbie btw

Pogba is a High profile transfer, a lot will be written, speculated and reported over him. Don't waste your posts over this anyways, It's not worth it. Save them for some other useful conversations. Glaston might get pissed.

 

[Cascarino]

That's a lot of players you listed as "don't score". Spurs scored 69 goals last season, second highest in the PL. Who do you think scored all those goals then? Kane only scored 25 of them.

As I've stated plenty of times in the thread, I rate Tottenham, and I rate all those players (bar Chadli) who I said don't score much. I'm not trying to go out of my way to criticise Tottenham, I'm just saying what I think they need to do to actually win the title.

In the league, Kane had 25 goals, and Alli had 10 goals, that's over half the team goals, which in itself isn't worrying, but you have
Eriksen 6
Lamela 5
Dembele 3
Son 4
Chadli 3

Alderweireld scored the same amount as Son, and more than Dembele and Chadli. It's justifiable Dembele not scoring as it's not his main focus, but had some of your wingers scored a few more goals, especially in the tight affairs, Tottenham would have won the league.

The last team which won the premiership with only 69 goals, was Manchester City in the 2008-2009 season with 68 goals scored, their nearest rival Liverpool scored 77 goals. So if Tottenham want to win the premiership, then yes, they evidently have to add more goals.

 

[RedSky]

We'd be a decent side if we had a better defence. Pochettino has definitely got them clicking up front when it comes to creating goal scoring opportunities.

Yeah I was surprised to see Liverpool so high up. I think you're in for another inconsistent season as if Karius and Matip are first teamers then it will take them a while to settle and get an understanding with your other defenders. You'll have a better 2017 though. But this should probably be discussed in a Liverpool - 2016/2017 thread!

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

Hence the "keep it tight and hope for a miracle" comment. It's the same with United; we weren't great defensively, but we employed tactics that are conducive to not conceding.



That comment was in reference to Alli, hence the "2 players who can score".



Dier, Walker, Rose & Dembele are mid table fodder. Alderweireld, like your other defenders look much better because of the system you employ.



My argument is that Spurs are a team with one great player (Kane) and one player who has been on a massive hot streak for several months (Alli). The rest of the team are mediocre players elevated by having a great player in front of them, just like Henderson, Sterling & Sturridge all suddenly became top class players when Suarez was playing well, but returned to normalcy once he left.

I distinctly remember Dembele taking your midfield apart when he played for Fulham, after a couple of below par seasons due to niggling injury he returned to that form last season. Rose was voted best left back in the PL last season. Walker had two MOTM games in the Euros and Dier had one MOTM in the Euros as well as a very stellar season in spurs midfield. You sound to me to be severely inflicted with a case of sour grapes.

 

[RedSky]

Thanks for the analysis (which I haven't quoted it in full both to save space and because I only want to respond on the above sentence) ... it's good to have considered contributions rather than throw-away "Spurs are crap" type comments.

My worry for the season start is that we might well again will start slowly, because Dembele is suspended for the first 4 games and Alli for the first two. That's two key players missing from our midfield, but perhaps Wanyama will help to partially plug the gap.

Vertonghen looks like he'll miss the start also, due to injury, but I'm less concerned about that because Wimmer was a very able replacement when needed last season.

Well here's your opening 4 fixtures with last seasons results for comparison.

Everton (A) - 1-1 Draw
Palace (H) - 1-0 Win
Liverpool (H) - 0-0 Draw
Stoke (A) - 0-4 Win

Wanyama will most likely fill in for Dembele and I imagine you'll then use Eriksen at AM and put Chadli/Son on the left wing. If you did manage to get Gotze then he could very well be thrown in the deep end although personally I think Poch will want to boost his fitness first.

 

[jungledrums]

The point is that Spurs currently don't especially need to compete with Arsenal and Chelski in the transfer market. This is because we are successfully developing youth/young players, have a high quality scouting/transfer negotiation system (and no, before you jump in, it's not perfect), and know that there are very good players (and prospects) out there who don't have 'big names' and thus won't involve big fees and high wages.

So the fact that we can't currently compete with Arsenal or Chelski on transfer fees or wages doesn't matter as much as you seem to imagine.

You're right, it's not perfect. To reach the very top levels, you need to blend youth development with elite signings. I don't think Tottenham can sign the world class players they'd require to challenge for the league. I think it matters more than you'd care to admit.

 

[NK86]

You mean like Pogba? I haven't heard anything about that one......oh wait. Mkhitarayn on the other hand was well quiet. Erm

So you think other clubs' big name targets don't get noticed before the transfer. This glee to talk nonsense about our own club bewilders me more than posters like @finneh who are obviously trying to wind up Glaston.

Back to the topic, Spurs will find it difficult to make top 4 this season with added CL competition and the fact that City and United will be revamped and rejuvenated again with absolute top managers at the helm. Arsenal will always be there or thereabouts and Liverpool with Klopp are a bit of a wildcard at this moment.

 

[Vicar of Dibbly]

As I've stated plenty of times in the thread, I rate Tottenham, and I rate all those players (bar Chadli) who I said don't score much. I'm not trying to go out of my way to criticise Tottenham, I'm just saying what I think they need to do to actually win the title.

In the league, Kane had 25 goals, and Alli had 10 goals, that's over half the team goals, which in itself isn't worrying, but you have
Eriksen 6
Lamela 5
Dembele 3
Son 4
Chadli 3

Alderweireld scored the same amount as Son, and more than Dembele and Chadli. It's justifiable Dembele not scoring as it's not his main focus, but had some of your wingers scored a few more goals, especially in the tight affairs, Tottenham would have won the league.

The last team which won the premiership with only 69 goals, was Manchester City in the 2008-2009 season with 68 goals scored, their nearest rival Liverpool scored 77 goals. So if Tottenham want to win the premiership, then yes, they evidently have to add more goals.

I wasn't getting defensive at all. Merely pointing out that if Kane scored 25 out of 69 then some body else must have scored the rest and since you gave a whole list of players that "don't score", I asked who you think scored the other 44 goals? It is far better to have many players chipping in with a few goals than to rely on just one or two to score all the goals. As long as the "team" score, it doesn't matter who actually provides the final touch. Incidently, Son was injured and didn't play much due to that.

 

[jungledrums]

I never called him incompetent, I called him an imbecile. The guy tells everyone he's jetting off to do some important business for the club. (From the USA two/three years ago) Then proceeds to feck it up. Levy on the other hand goes about his business in a much more professional manner.

As regards the Liverpool dig....I had just made the same point.

Right, of course, he's an imbecile because he "left for important business, and fecked it up".
Ever cared to think that perhaps he was dealing with the commercial side of the football club? Even if he did feck something up, does one isolated incident mean he's an imbecile, irrespective of all the good he's done? The reality is, you have no idea what his business was, nor should you. Nor do I, for that matter, but I'm aware enough to not make grand, baseless statements with such conviction. What I can say with certainty, however, is that United is even more of a financial beast now, under Woodward. Hardly an imbecile, is he?

You mean like Pogba? I haven't heard anything about that one......oh wait. Mkhitarayn on the other hand was well quiet. Erm

Right, another bizarre post. Criticise United because... wait for it... our transfers are being reported? Scything criticism, that... Just to educate: the media reports on relevant things. United are relevant. Media attention and massive, widespread transfer talk comes with the territory of being a big club. I see why you're unaware of this when I look at who you support.

 

[slig]

Back to the topic, Spurs will find it difficult to make top 4 this season with added CL competition

If they take the CL as serious as they did with the EL, i see no chance for them in this competion, and not getting out of the group. So they can "focus" on the league, whatever this means. As a club with the aim of one of the first (till 6th) spots in the league you have to get used to european tournament and deal with the many games. If you dont get this, you have to admit that you are no team with the claim of beeing a top team.

 

[Cascarino]

I wasn't getting defensive at all. Merely pointing out that if Kane scored 25 out of 69 then some body else must have scored the rest and since you gave a whole list of players that "don't score", I asked who you think scored the other 44 goals? It is far better to have many players chipping in with a few goals than to rely on just one or two to score all the goals. As long as the "team" score, it doesn't matter who actually provides the final touch. Incidently, Son was injured and didn't play much due to that.

Yeah I took the defensive thing out, it wasn't fair, it's just from experience I find a lot of Tottenham fans tend to be very defensive and jump on the slightest criticism of their team, realised you weren't and took it out. I did give a list of players who didn't score, and then showed their goal stats to show they don't score. It is better to have a team which doesn't rely on one player, but in terms of goal scoring last season, they did rely heavily on Kane and Alli. 69 goals isn't a great tally, it's good but it's rarely enough to win the title, bar a freak season like last season. Chelsea have added goals in Batshuayi, United have Miki and Ibra, Arsenal are a better team than spurs, as are Manchester City (who also added Nolito). If Spurs finalise the signing of Janssen that's a start but I wonder how they'll fit him and Kane in the starting 11, I have trouble seeing them as a partnership.

I thought Son got injured in November and only missed a month? I thought the reason he made so many sub appearances was because he couldn't get a spot in the starting lineup? Or was he struggling with fitness at the time? (Genuine question)

 

[bio202]

Right, of course, he's an imbecile because he "left for important business, and fecked it up".
Ever cared to think that perhaps he was dealing with the commercial side of the football club? Even if he did feck something up, does one isolated incident mean he's an imbecile, irrespective of all the good he's done? The reality is, you have no idea what his business was, nor should you. Nor do I, for that matter, but I'm aware enough to not make grand, baseless statements with such conviction. What I can say with certainty, however, is that United is even more of a financial beast now, under Woodward. Hardly an imbecile, is he?

Right, another bizarre post. Criticise United because... wait for it... our transfers are being reported? Scything criticism, that... Just to educate: the media reports on relevant things. United are relevant. Media attention and massive, widespread transfer talk comes with the territory of being a big club. I see why you're unaware of this when I look at who you support.

Your transfers being reported wasn't in any way a criticism.

If you read the tread you will realise is was not just me having a go at Woodward. It was me comparing Daniel levy to the two running utd and Liverpool as this is a spurs thread. I was saying that levy is a better chairman than the other two. I used the word "imbecile" to describe both and it was not an attack on Utd.

Granted, imbecile is a little too hard a word but "not as good" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Calling my posts bizarre and not reading the conversation I had with @baanke laal is uncalled for. If you say you have read them and are still happy to take my words out of context then I'm at a loss.

Finally, it was not a baseless statement. It was widely reported that Woodward left the USA to get a deal done and was slaughtered on the cafe for doing it.

 

[NK86]

Your transfers being reported wasn't in any way a criticism.

If you read the tread you will realise is was not just me having a go at Woodward. It was me comparing Daniel levy to the two running utd and Liverpool as this is a spurs thread. I was saying that levy is a better chairman than the other two. I used the word "imbecile" to describe both and it was not an attack on Utd.

Granted, imbecile is a little too hard a word but "not as good" doesn't have the same ring to it.

Calling my posts bizarre and not reading the conversation I had with @baanke laal is uncalled for. If you say you have read them and are still happy to take my words out of context then I'm at a loss.

Finally, it was not a baseless statement. It was widely reported that Woodward left the USA to get a deal done and was slaughtered on the cafe for doing it.

Levy is a great chairman because he sells his assets at prime rates? I see no other reason to think of Levy as being better than Woodward.

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

Lloris
Vorm
Walker - Alderweireld - Manolas - Rose
Trippier - Wimmer - Vertonghen - Davies
Dembele - Dier
Bentaleb - Wanyama
Lamela - Gotze - Eriksen
Son - Alli - Chadli
Kane
Janssen/N'Jie

Mason, Fazio
​

Is what I imagine a decent window for Spurs to look like, maybe if they weren't a little cash-strapped.

 

[Sweech]

Nah back down to reality next year, 6th or 7th I reckon.

Wouldn't reality be 4th or 5th?

Over the past half-decade we've been 5th or in a CL spot basically. Haven't finished below 6th for about 8 years. Not sure why I always see posters and hear pundits saying we'll be around 7th where we belong. I think we've essentially cemented our place for the time being. We're a European side every year now, whether that be CL or Europa.

We also aren't losing a major key player and we're adding solid Pochettino players with work ethic like Wanyama and Jannsen. It's a good time to be a Spurs supporter

 

[ReDDHDevilS]

These throw-away excuses always makes me laugh. "It's alright lads ... you just 'under-performed'" ... maybe that's what LvG told the United squad when he took over from Moyes.

The possibility doesn't seem to occur to you that perhaps Spurs players were punching at exactly their due weight, nor that perhaps - being young n' all - their punching weight might go up a notch next season.

You totally evaded the rest of the comment except that under performing part, called it a throw away excuse and then wrote this 'It's alright lads ... you just 'under-performed'! How the hell does Moyes come into it when we're talking about last season?

Now let's look at the throw away excuse,

Did United under perform last season?
Did Chelsea under perform last season?
Did City under perform last season?
Did some Spurs players over performed last season?

If the answers are no, then try answering these (although it's pointless asking you to do it!)

Did you or any Spurs fan at the start of the season expect Alli to start regularly let alone becoming an integral part of the team and scoring over 10 goals?
Did you or any Spurs fan at the start of the season expect Dier to be your one of the main CMs let alone becoming a permanent fixture of the team?
Did Spurs until December once break into top4?
Did Spurs until February once break into top3?

The season which is hailed as your best ever PL season had you only 4 points above us and City, winning absolutely nothing. Your so called success is based on only two months where other teams faltered while you took advantage of it. Nothing wrong with that. But don't go around bragging as though you're dominant right from the start of the season just as Leicester was because you weren't. Your young players may perform even better next season but that doesn't mean they didn't perform beyond expectations last season.

 

[The BlackGaijin]

I think this is the year that people in England will join the rest of the world in noticing that Kane is the most overrated player in the world at the moment.
I said it before the Euros here and a spurs fan told me I was being unfair and that I should watch him more. I did and Jesus why can't English fans see the limits in their players. It's like Barkley and cleverly a few years ago.

Good news for Spurs is that I think porch will get them top four again and despite the bad euros Alli and Dier look pretty decent.

 

[RC89]

Total Shots 15/16 (per game)​

1. Tottenham 17.3
2. Liverpool 16.6
3. Manchester City 16.2
4. Arsenal 15.1
5. West Ham 14.7
6. Chelsea 13.8

Total Shots In Penalty Area 15/16 (per game)​

1. Arsenal 9.5
2. Manchester City 8.9
3. Tottenham 8.5
4. Liverpool 8.1
5. Southampton 7.9
6. Leicester 7.6

Shots On Target 15/16 (per game)​

1. Tottenham 6.6
2. Arsenal 5.6
3. Manchester City 5.5
4. Liverpool 5.3
5. West Ham 4.9
6. Leicester 4.7

Goals Scored 15/16​

1. Manchester City 71
2. Tottenham 68
3. Leicester 67
4. West Ham 64
5. Arsenal 62
6. Liverpool 62

Key Passes 15/16​

1. Tottenham 501
2. Liverpool 497
3. Manchester City 479
4. Arsenal 469
5. West Ham 427
6. Chelsea 404

That's an impressive set of stats

 

[Sean_RedDevil]

Key Passes 15/16​

1. Tottenham 501
2. Liverpool 497
3. Manchester City 479
4. Arsenal 469
5. West Ham 427
6. Chelsea 404

Key Passes of Manchester United??? - I doubt we had over 100

 

[jungledrums]

I think this is the year that people in England will join the rest of the world in noticing that Kane is the most overrated player in the world at the moment.
I said it before the Euros here and a spurs fan told me I was being unfair and that I should watch him more. I did and Jesus why can't English fans see the limits in their players. It's like Barkley and cleverly a few years ago.

Good news for Spurs is that I think porch will get them top four again and despite the bad euros Alli and Dier look pretty decent.

Granted, he had a garbage Euros, but is that the evidence you're using to state that he's overrated? I think many were wary of labelling Kane a top prospect after his 14/15 season (where he was brilliant). His first 10 or so games last season yielded very few goals, however his overall link up play was still very sharp and he looked a quality player, yet to find his goal scoring touch, rather than just an average player playing at his actual level. After that, he banged the goals in, and deservedly won the golden boot in the league. So, two consecutive seasons of fantastic overall play, AND fantastic goal scoring, all at just 22 years of age. I'm no Spurs lover, mark my words, but Kane is incredibly talented. He may have been burned out during the Euros, or perhaps the system didn't suit him. It doesn't excuse his terrible performances, and he deserves to get criticised, but to say at just 22 that he's overrated is an extremely short sighted reaction.

To address your other point, that "English fans can't see the limits in their players", I'd say, at least going by this forum, that they most certainly can. The caf is notoriously harsh on players, for better or for worse. It takes a hell of a lot to convince a lot on this forum that players are the 'real deal'. After Kane's first season, many on here thought he couldn't back it up, or withheld judgement until he'd proven himself again the following season (fair enough). When he did back it up, there was a distinct change in opinion on Kane, but it took a lot to convince many that Kane was/is the real deal. You get many level-headed reactions on here, and I think many now rate Kane, as they should (shite Euros not withstanding).
Oh, and it's nothing like Cleverley or Barkley. Neither of them have come close to the levels Kane has reached. Strange comparison.

 

[Rafateria]

My opinion is that the Premier League is a very different beast to what it was even 4 years ago. With Chelsea, Liverpool and United all struggling lately it's narrowed the gap to the mid table teams who are now capable of attracting excellent players due to high wages and high fees that they can now afford.

If we look at Tottenham in a bit more detail:

14/15 Stats
Position: 5th
Goals Scored: 58
Goals Conceded: 53
Goal Difference: 5

Jan Vertonghen - 2810mins
Danny Rose - 2371mins
Eric Dier - 2290mins (played CB/RB)
Federico Fazio - 1777mins
Kyle Walker - 1307mins
Younès Kaboul - 990mins

The above defense obviously wasn't working. So Poch decided to bring in Alderweireld to replace Fazio, convert Dier into a DM and bring Wimmer to replace Kaboul. At that point the defense had major surgery and required some time to adjust. So rather than playing expansive football from the start, he allowed his defense to gel. The start of the season for them was disappointing, 5 draws, 1 loss and 4 wins from the opening 10 games. But if you looked at their Achilles heel in 14/15 (the defense) they had conceded 8 goals but scored 16 in 15/16, giving them a GD of +8, promising. It was at that point that Poch allowed Rose and Walker to start pushing forward and by midpoint in the season they'd scored 33 and conceded 15, compared to 14/15 of 24 scored, 24 conceded.

15/16 Stats
Position: 3rd
Goals Scored: 69 (+11)
Goals Conceded: 35 (-18)
Goal Difference: 34 (+29)

When you look at the huge improvement in their defense but then take into consideration their slow start to the season it puts it into perspective that nobody should really be under estimating Spurs. They won't be changing tactics, they won't be changing their first team defense. They'll be a settled first team that can hit the ground running from the opening game. Also if you look at the results against the top teams from last season they are as follows:

Manchester United (A) - 1:0
Leicester City (A) - 1:1
Manchester City (H) - 4:1
Liverpool FC (H) - 0:0
Arsenal FC (A) - 1:1
Chelsea FC (H) - 0:0
Leicester City (H) - 0:1
Manchester City (A) - 1:2
Arsenal FC (H) - 2:2
Liverpool FC (A) - 1:1
Manchester United (H) - 3:0
Chelsea FC (A) - 2:2

Only 2 losses and 1 of them being against us in the opening game of the season. If they are going for the title they need to convert a few more of those into wins. But they're a very difficult team to beat.

The obvious area of improvement is bringing in a player to give Kane cover (Poch seems to have identified Janssen for that). They've replaced Mason with Wanyama who will bring much needed depth to their midfield and the last remaining area of improvement in my opinion is bringing in another attacking danger to play on the right. Lamela is a good work horse and had a good end to the season (4 assists and 2 goals in final 6 games) but they need someone with a consistent goal threat and that's not Lamela. Gotze could provide the answer. I also expect Clinton N'Jie to do well for them, he was unlucky he got badly injured just as he was looking to have settled.

Cracking post.