I dont even know what you were arguing about though
The Smith-Rowe strike that gave Arsenal the lead. Correct decision?
- Thread starter simplyared
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DDG has always been bad at claiming crosses and corners.
So... a new strategy for him should be to fall to ground and pretend to be injured at every single set piece. Then, as long as he screams loud enough to get the ref's attention, United will get the ball back instantly and nobody can ever score a freekick against us ever again.
Or, you know, he could play to the whistle and stop being such a fanny. The game is gone if it becomes an automatic foul whenever the 'keeper falls to the ground. And for all of his heroic shot stopping this season, DDG's been directly responsible for just as many saveable goals.
So... a new strategy for him should be to fall to ground and pretend to be injured at every single set piece. Then, as long as he screams loud enough to get the ref's attention, United will get the ball back instantly and nobody can ever score a freekick against us ever again.
Or, you know, he could play to the whistle and stop being such a fanny. The game is gone if it becomes an automatic foul whenever the 'keeper falls to the ground. And for all of his heroic shot stopping this season, DDG's been directly responsible for just as many saveable goals.
I dont even know what you were arguing about though
Basically that you comparing Nani to last night was wrong. It was.
You seem to disagree that it was unsportsmanlike and cite your personal belief that De Gea was not really in pain as justification for Arsenal acting how they did.
One thing that this club seems to have lost over the last 7-8 years and I hope it gets back with RR, is the ability to critically think. De Gea didnt do anything that any other footballer doesnt do when you touch them. You act like you have been shot and roll around for a minute only to get up and sprint 50 yards to try and counter attack.
The stunt of falling and playing hurt was obviously all DeGea, but I will not hold him over a fire for it.
His goal keeping this year has been really good and without him we would have less points than we currently do.
I do think it was a goal only because the ref didnt blow until after it had gone in.
The stunt of falling and playing hurt was obviously all DeGea, but I will not hold him over a fire for it.
His goal keeping this year has been really good and without him we would have less points than we currently do.
I do think it was a goal only because the ref didnt blow until after it had gone in.
It's funny, I tore both my ACLs multiple years apart and both times it didn't really hurt that much. The 2nd time I didn't even fall, I just felt it and heard it go, passed the ball to a teammate, hopped off, laid down and told my coach I tore it... My brother was in loads of pain when he did his though, actually rolling on the ground for a few minutes and had to be helped off the pitch. Always different for stuff like ligaments.
So what happens if the goalkeeper makes a save and dislocated his shoulder? Falls against the post? Rolls an ankle? Pulls a hamstring taking a goal kick? Gets a foot in the chest from his own defender in a defensive mix up? The game just carries on until the ball goes out of play or the opposition score?
Nonsense.
Eh, it was more in response to calling Arsenal embarrassing for scoring and celebrating when they scored. For me, goal is a goal. Ok ill admit on one hand its an "injury" and the other is someone being dumb, but it was still celebrating a cheap goal. For what its worth, the guy I responded to also said that Nani goal and celebration was also embarrassing/shameful in his opinion.
And yeah I just don't think Arsenal did anything wrong. They played to the whistle. What are they to do? Not score a goal when the ref doesn't blow up?
If he blows before that's it, no goal, end of. That's why it would be a good thing if they don't get too whistle happy during the same attacking phase given VAR can be used. That's how I would want it to be going forward, whoever is at the receiving end.
Re ankle roll, ref call, same as here. If it's a rival, tough shit for even touching the keeper. Fred mishap/ankle roll scenario is essentially a call as to whether it's playacting/trying to gain an advantage. In this case I'm in no doubt David made a meal of it. There's a complete absence of any intention or attempt to play on and from the contact you see it was unwarranted.
Some just want perfection and leaving things for refs to exercise judgement is a no-no to them. Personally, I find playacting is a bigger problem in today's game than refs getting shit wrong so happy to trust the ref and the tools at his disposal.
If the ball is in and around the box with the attacking team and there hasn't been a "new sequence of play", nothing, play carries on. The immediate danger didn't pass, the play wasn't over. If the ball is actually cleared (further than the edge of the box to an opposing player) and the immediate action is over, then the ref blows a whistle. As it was... an incident occurred during an attack that gave Arsenal an open goal essentially. It happens, rarely, but it is what it is.
Everything that is wrong in football nowadays, is showed by this single incident. Players are getting soft, no common sense and sportsmanship, and all is about winning, money and woman.
What were your thoughts on what Bielsa did with Leeds and Di Canio at West Ham?
Interested to know as well likely explain where you stand when it comes to fair play.
He didn’t give the goal. Look at when he blows the whistle, he doesn’t indicate goal and nobody celebrates or argues. He literally doesn’t signal goal.
Unless the ref is talking about the weather with the players for 5 minutes then he’s clearly saying he hasnt given the goal and to wait or else he would have been mobbed much earlier
Poor ref and a shit thing to do but a goal non the less. Arsenal running around and celebrating it was just pathetic and Lego Pep just a tosser pumping his fist.
Of course he was up shortly after, his leg wasn’t broken.
Just give me one example of a similar foul when the player jumps up because he’s human and carries on. Just one will do because I can give you a lifetime of examples of players having their Achilles or ankle trod on and being laid out from it requiring medical attention.
There must be many to choose from
I’m of the opinion that the goal was valid and it was basically up to Arsenal to put the ball out or stop the game for the ref so De Gea could get treatment because he’s too much of a fanny to come off his line so he has to fake injury instead.
But there is a grey area where injured GK’s get treatment and the game is stopped if they’re down. All the facts of the incident aren’t available until VAR has intervened so the ref has to be consistent with these calls or VAR does. We can’t have this happen again next week and it not be a goal because the ref manages to get the whistle in his mouth before all the ball has crossed the line.
So either the ref tells VAR he intended to blow if the keeper was down and it doesn’t matter if the ball has crossed the line or not, or they just allow play to continue until it hits the back of the net then let VAR sort it out
Of course it was a legit goal. We were supposed to clear it. If we had, then the assistant would have told the ref DdG was down and the ref would have stopped play soon after. As it was, there was no time for any of that - by the time the ref noticed DdG on the floor it was too late and before he whistled the ball was in the net.
The only puzzle was why the VAR took so long to give it. I assume they were desperately looking for an infringement somewhere in the move to disallow it, because it did look embarrassing. They couldn't find anything to disallow it for.
You can't expect an instant "keeper unavailable" whistle - else it's a green light for them to crumple to the ground whenever the team's under pressure. I'm sure no one would ever do anything so naughty of course, but I'd rather not leave the temptation open
Still, all's well that ends well, eh.
The only puzzle was why the VAR took so long to give it. I assume they were desperately looking for an infringement somewhere in the move to disallow it, because it did look embarrassing. They couldn't find anything to disallow it for.
You can't expect an instant "keeper unavailable" whistle - else it's a green light for them to crumple to the ground whenever the team's under pressure. I'm sure no one would ever do anything so naughty of course, but I'd rather not leave the temptation open
Still, all's well that ends well, eh.Both deserve to be lauded for incredible acts of fair play. I think what Arsenal did was ~ neutral, shouldn't be criticized for it really. What Bielsa and Di Canio did was both exceeding expectations and deserve all the plaudits, but not the expectation for any random player or club. IMO at least.
Basically can't hate on it, but of course if they do the "honorable thing" then full credit and more.
I love how the Caf can turn anything into a binary argument.
It's no biggie, we won the game and I got some sweet points from Smith Rowe in my fpl team so I think we can call that an all round win.
Referee is obviously a wanker.
It's no biggie, we won the game and I got some sweet points from Smith Rowe in my fpl team so I think we can call that an all round win.
Referee is obviously a wanker.
VAR took an age because they were trying to work out if the ref blew the whistle or not before the ball crossed the line. That was the only grounds they were looking to disallow the goal on. Funnily enough, if Atkinson doesn’t jump out of the way of the shot and just blows his whistle instead, he would have done so before it crossed the line.Of course it was a legit goal. We were supposed to clear it. If we had, then the assistant would have told the ref DdG was down and the ref would have stopped play soon after. As it was, there was no time for any of that - by the time the ref noticed DdG on the floor it was too late and before he whistled the ball was in the net.
The only puzzle was why the VAR took so long to give it. I assume they were desperately looking for an infringement somewhere in the move to disallow it, because it did look embarrassing. They couldn't find anything to disallow it for.
You can't expect an instant "keeper unavailable" whistle - else it's a green light for them to crumple to the ground whenever the team's under pressure. I'm sure no one would ever do anything so naughty of course, but I'd rather not leave the temptation open
there you go - Achillies injury (complete tear) and he actually tried to play on or at least stay standing before being forced off. One of the worst injuries you can get and even he didn''t go down instantly like he'd been shot.
You just posted a video of Beckham pulling up and unable to move and laying prone on the pitch ffs! He can’t even put any weight on his foot!
There was nothing correct about that decision. Both referee and VAR failed to do their job.
Just watch next couple of games where and when a goalkeeper goes down because of injury. Refs will stop games immediately.
It's exactly the same situation though!
Yes i know, but he tried to play on and was still standing - which is the point i was trying to make... he didn't go down in a heap instantly did he, he limped off the pitch! Keep up.
Fred was screaming and waving like a drunken duck, and Atkinson couldn't see him? OK he leaves play go put the whistle up to his mouth when he sees DDG on the floor waits then blows. Now this is because of VAR according to whoever. Now they got it right by more luck than judgment. So its a goal, and it was. Then our pen was a strange one, ref is in the best position, and waves no pen! Then VAR again.
In both situations it was right , why rely on VAR when he's the man with the whistle.
In both situations it was right , why rely on VAR when he's the man with the whistle.
He didn’t try to play on he immediately kicked the ball away. I dont think the video proves what you think it does.
Your sentence contradicts itself- he kicked the ball away, that's playing on... to stop the game so he could receive treatment. He could still kick a ball, stand up, grab his ankle a bit and limp off - a person in that much serve pain would do none of those things right?
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I think this was a much shorter time frame between incident and result, which matters... and like I said, I probably wouldn't have criticized di canio if he just scored and didn't catch the ball just like I won't criticize ESR for scoring. Of course, there's also the big difference that in Di Canio's example, the goalkeeper had the ball, pulled a hammy and fell which gifted the chance to them which is wildly different to this. Here De Gea dropped as goalkeepers often do to try and win a free kick to relieve pressure on the defence, so I'd say that's a big difference too. That's how I saw the incident. I don't think De gea falls if he knows it was Fred that steps on him.
The Leeds incident was just wild, wasn't the team giving the ball back to villa or just kicking it up for treatment, but no Villa player ran to the ball so the one Leeds winger went through and scored? And then some players didn't even want to let them march back up the other end to score after Bielsa instructed them to. The Leeds player involved there was just a cnut and it was massively different IMO.
Don't mean to be rude but I'm not sure what you're trying to say here?
If a keeper is genuinely injured as you've mentioned I think and hope common sense prevails and the ref stops the game.
Also that's if the ref sees it as well.
If the opposition does score in the spirit of the game you would expect them to give a goal back.
If though, the keeper is not seriously injured and is just trying to influence the ref to stop the game then that's the risk he takes.
He actually tore his achilles there. I think he's just showing that Beckham with one of the worst injuries possible, didn't dramaticize the incident as much as De Gea did.
Out for 6 months too. And i'm let to believe a rake on the achilles or foot stamp makes a grown adult collapse in a heap for 2 mins in fetal position. Ha I get pain thresholds deviate, but this just doesn't make sense.
The referee doesn't know this at any point so you cannot make a snap judgement on whether or not to stop the game based on that.
Some of the statement's people are making in here are based on what we all saw thanks to replays, the ref doesn't have that luxury when making a decision to stop the game so he has to stop the game and hope VAR sorts it out. VAR yesterday spent an age on trying to work out when the ref blew the whistle to award a goal or not, surely that's not the intended use of VAR?
We know it wasn't too serious as achilles injuries are no joke, he wouldn't be chasing the refs or even be able to plant his foot on it. He wouldn't even finish the game and would be in for an MRI today. Was he even treated by the physios before standing up? I think it was a matter of pain rather than injury severity. I also don't know if it's right to get on a guy for not having a higher pain tolerance but at the same time I still wish things played out different. In fact I don't believe De Gea goes down that way if he knew it was from his own teammate or if he knew the headed clearance was going to come back so quickly. He saw the ball floating away before going down, he didn't collapse by reflex, he thought it was safe.
Yeah I don't think you've ever been studded before on the ankle.
Gotcha.
Think we're arguing about the same thing here.
Personally I don't think Atkinson was 100% with what was going on and was hoping the ball would go out. (Either Arsenal fecking up the attack or us getting possession)
He would then stop the play and see what was going on with De Gea.
Smith - Rowe had other ideas though.
I notice Herr Gegenpress Rolf was wondering Where David Went?. WDW. Ja. Mein erste problem.
It was a goal. De Ge was embarrassing. Unless the ref blows up before the ball is struck by Smith Rowe then the goal has to stand. I said at the time to a mate that the first time an Arsenal player goes down injured then United will play on. They did, when Tavares went down injured/ shot by a sniper, and if we had scored, I bet Arsenal fans would be screaming about sportsmanship. Lets face it, players are going down all over the pitch as if they had been shot and get up 2 minutes later as right as rain. They are all play acting wankers. It's embarrassing.
What was also embarrassing was the way Arsenal celebrated the goal. But then again, I bet our lot would have done the same if the situation had occurred the other way round.
What was also embarrassing was the way Arsenal celebrated the goal. But then again, I bet our lot would have done the same if the situation had occurred the other way round.
The worst thing about the Smith Rowe goal was Atkinson's positioning.
I think that De Gea does the right thing if he’s genuinely in pain (I’d imagine coaches would say the same) to stay down and wait for the ref to stop the game. The problem is that the ref was incompetent and didn’t do his job correctly. Maybe De Gea should have screamed louder so the ref knew about it.
Didn’t something similar happen with Di Canio? Arsenal should have been sporting and stopped play! I’d have been embarrassed if we’d scored under such circumstances!
Didn’t something similar happen with Di Canio? Arsenal should have been sporting and stopped play! I’d have been embarrassed if we’d scored under such circumstances!
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