The shocking decline of Trent Alexander Arnold

RUCK4444 said:
Really? I wouldn't say 2 assists in 17 league games with zero goals is much to shout home about. Those assists were likely from corners as well.

I wouldn't say he's been terrible but really the most productive thing he's done since arriving is kick Luke up the arse who is in every aspect a much better player than Telles.
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I expected a lot more from Telles. He’s really gone off the grid the last few months. Is he injured?

I wasn’t expecting him to come in as first choice, but was expecting to see more productivity from him when he played.

he did allow Shaw to be rested earlier in the season, and yes, looks like he gave him a giant kick up the arse.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Really? I wouldn't say 2 assists in 17 league games with zero goals is much to shout home about. Those assists were likely from corners as well.

I wouldn't say he's been terrible but really the most productive thing he's done since arriving is kick Luke up the arse who is in every aspect a much better player than Telles.
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I know. That’s how shallow creatively we’ve been. Our forwards as a unit have been pants.
 
roonster09 said:
There are supposed ManUtd fans defending everything related to City from at least last 5 years, so this is nothing.
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If we did a list of RedCafe's favourite ever players I'd wager De Bruyne would be top of the list by a mile, I've always found it bizzare.
 
elmo said:
Why would you? He's unplayable against decent opponents and not needed against lousy opponents when England won't need his offensive contributions to score
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I clarified this in an earlier post: Walker is probably the best in a back four (still a bit of a muppet). Tripper is the most experienced playing at wing back and can cover at left back if need be. Then it’s a toss up between Alexander-Arnold and James. If we were 1 down to a Spain or Belgium in the quarters then I’d be looking at the bench to see who could change the game and make an impact. Alexander-Arnold could be that player, moreso than James, in my opinion.
 
AltiUn said:
If we did a list of RedCafe's favourite ever players I'd wager De Bruyne would be top of the list by a mile, I've always found it bizzare.
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It’s not that bizarre. Centre mid is a position we didn’t fill (with quality) for many many years, and he’s an imperious midfielder. Plus other team’s players are always coveted in a way that your own are not
 
3rd choice RB and no more, and only lucky to be going to as he might step in as second choice RWB once Walker shifts to RCB in a back 5.

Southgate will probably pick Trippier ahead of him though, and who can blame him?
 
His defending has never been that good - I remember Mourinho targeted him a few years ago when long balls to Lukaku ricocheted to Rashy who was isolated one-on-one with Trent and ended up scoring a brace.

I feel like Trent is very good on the ball and sees defending as beneath him. I'd move him to RW if his defending doesn't improve drastically.
 
Suedesi said:
His defending has never been that good - I remember Mourinho targeted him a few years ago when long balls to Lukaku ricocheted to Rashy who was isolated one-on-one with Trent and ended up scoring a brace.

I feel like Trent is very good on the ball and sees defending as beneath him. I'd move him to RW if his defending doesn't improve drastically.
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Are you nicely trying to say that it has always been dreadful?
 
Kroos violated him all game. Constantly targeted the space in behind and Vini took full advantage.
 
AltiUn said:
If we did a list of RedCafe's favourite ever players I'd wager De Bruyne would be top of the list by a mile, I've always found it bizzare.
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De Bruyne is one of those generally likable players though. I have always immensely disliked Arsenal but at the same time, back when he was still playing, Thierry Henry was always one of my favourite players. I don't it's that bizarre that KDB is popular among rival fans.
 
Based Adnan said:
Kroos violated him all game. Constantly targeted the space in behind and Vini took full advantage.
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They were playing a lot of crossfield passes to Mendy at the beginning (Asensio, Lucas Vazquez etc) and I think Trent instinctually might have been trying to close that channel which exposed him in the center when Kroos played those balls to Vinicius.
 
It's a myth he has declined. It's Liverpool that has declined as a team hence exposing a weakness he always had. His defending. People forget he is a converted midfielder. Without Liverpool playing at their best which offers him ample protection. He can't be as effective going forward because now he is under defensive pressure. I expect normal service to resume with him once Pool return to full strength. I hope for his sake in the mean time he really works on his defending.
 
RUCK4444 said:
Really? I wouldn't say 2 assists in 17 league games with zero goals is much to shout home about. Those assists were likely from corners as well.

I wouldn't say he's been terrible but really the most productive thing he's done since arriving is kick Luke up the arse who is in every aspect a much better player than Telles.
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I've been so disappointed in him. I'm a Shaw fanboy so I always expected him to win the battle for that position, but I hoped there might actually be a battle. This Telles who is supposed to maraud down the wing and produce lots of assists is nowhere to be seen, and on the flipside he's a really unreliable defender. I felt safer when we were turning to Williams last season than I do when we start Telles.
 
Brightonian said:
I've been so disappointed in him. I'm a Shaw fanboy so I always expected him to win the battle for that position, but I hoped there might actually be a battle. This Telles who is supposed to maraud down the wing and produce lots of assists is nowhere to be seen, and on the flipside he's a really unreliable defender. I felt safer when we were turning to Williams last season than I do when we start Telles.
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Yeah same here. Shame really.
Agree on Williams, I think he’s more defensively sound than Telles more often than not.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It's a myth he has declined. It's Liverpool that has declined as a team hence exposing a weakness he always had. His defending. People forget he is a converted midfielder. Without Liverpool playing at their best which offers him ample protection. He can't be as effective going forward because now he is under defensive pressure. I expect normal service to resume with him once Pool return to full strength. I hope for his sake in the mean time he really works on his defending.
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Largely agree with this.

Personal form might be exacerbating them but his defensive flaws were already very evident in prior seasons. And as we saw in prior seasons, those flaws don't preclude him from being brilliant in the right team and with the right set-up.

Even then he was always liable to be targeted in given games though, so he needs to work on the defensive aspect of his game, as I'm sure he will.

If I was the England manager he'd certainly still be in my squad, as having the option to introduce such a creative outlet at fullback in certain games and certain situations would be extremely valuable.
 
I suppose the question is, which right backs would you have ahead of him in the league?

Cancelo, Ricardo, AWB?
 
Kag said:
I clarified this in an earlier post: Walker is probably the best in a back four (still a bit of a muppet). Tripper is the most experienced playing at wing back and can cover at left back if need be. Then it’s a toss up between Alexander-Arnold and James. If we were 1 down to a Spain or Belgium in the quarters then I’d be looking at the bench to see who could change the game and make an impact. Alexander-Arnold could be that player, moreso than James, in my opinion.
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That’s all well and good if you want to take 3 right backs but what is the point? Wouldn’t it be better taking an exciting youngster in attack or midfield ie, Saka/Greenwood/Bellingham.
 
I still think he’s a hell of a player, has had a poor season and has been exposed a number of times but there’s a lot of OTT criticism in this thread.

I also think the criticism AWB is excessive, but very surprised to see people saying they’d take him over Trent.
 
M Bison said:
I still think he’s a hell of a player, has had a poor season and has been exposed a number of times but there’s a lot of OTT criticism in this thread.

I also think the criticism AWB is excessive, but very surprised to see people saying they’d take him over Trent.
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It's really daft to compare them. They might get listed as playing the same position on the pitch but they really don't. Think David Beckham and Gary Neville: AWB is clearly playing the Gary Neville role, but TAA's job last season had more in common with Beckham's.
 
Sleigh said:
I suppose the question is, which right backs would you have ahead of him in the league?

Cancelo, Ricardo, AWB?
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Depends on how your team play really. None of the other fullbacks would have been an improvement on him in Liverpool's team of last year, for example. Whereas in other teams he'd be exposed much more and I'd sooner opt for several others.

In terms of AWB specifically though, he's every bit as flawed as TAA, just in a different way. Certainly if we're talking in the long run then I'd much rather have a fullback of TAA's profile as it will be much easier for him to close the gap defensively (where AWB still has plenty of work to do himself) than it will be for AWB to close the gap in terms of what they offer offensively.
 
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Sleigh said:
I suppose the question is, which right backs would you have ahead of him in the league?

Cancelo, Ricardo, AWB?
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I'd take him over all of them. Even while he's being targeted and struggling, which happens to all young players after they become established threats, he's still making the kind of exceptional passes that our entire team goes through most games without making. Pinging passes about when you're feeling good and the team is flowing is one thing, but somehow digging them out while you're at a nadir and the team is running on fumes is the real confirmation of his core technique.

He was ideal as a right back in Klopp's system last year with Henderson covering that space, the entire midfield unit there for their off-the-ball contributions and with loads of space created by Salah. It's entirely possible he isn't a right back outside of that. I'd happily give him a run in our midfield.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
It's a myth he has declined. It's Liverpool that has declined as a team hence exposing a weakness he always had. His defending. People forget he is a converted midfielder. Without Liverpool playing at their best which offers him ample protection. He can't be as effective going forward because now he is under defensive pressure. I expect normal service to resume with him once Pool return to full strength. I hope for his sake in the mean time he really works on his defending.
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He'll be fine.

Watching the highlights again, he made a dumb mistake for the second goal. However that first goal would have never happened 2 years ago. The space and time Kroos had on the ball, the lack of communication between TAA and the makeshift CB... The whole game TAA was left two on one, Mane wasn't doing much work down that flank. Henderson is sorely missed.
 
Should just move him into midfield, clearly a liability in an important defensive position.
 
adexkola said:
He'll be fine.

Watching the highlights again, he made a dumb mistake for the second goal. However that first goal would have never happened 2 years ago. The space and time Kroos had on the ball, the lack of communication between TAA and the makeshift CB... The whole game TAA was left two on one, Mane wasn't doing much work down that flank. Henderson is sorely missed.
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Indeed. As I said. All he is left to work on is defending. The decline narrative is a myth. He is simply suffering from missing Henderson protecting him and having a stable center defence
 
To be honest I think this is nonsense. He’s a top quality footballer who’s never been a top defender. People will be raving about him again soon enough. We would be mad not to bring him to the Euros.
 
Liverpool need another RB because He needs to.be taken out of the firing line.
The number of diagonals Real hit into his area was ridiculous. He's clearly being targeted.
Discussions abouy his overall quality are ridiculous. How old is he...22?
Hes having a bad patch like all young players.
 
He’s really the anti AWB. Can’t defend whatsoever and getting exposed on the counter. However when playing in a great attacking force with minimal defending duties he’s a really good RB.
 
Sleigh said:
I suppose the question is, which right backs would you have ahead of him in the league?

Cancelo, Ricardo, AWB?
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Reece James, James Justin, Kyle Walker, Matty Cash, Veltman, maybe even Lamptey.
 
Ananke said:
I’d have hoped people have clocked on “SirMarcusRashford” is a liverpool supporter by now to be fair. It’s painfully obvious :angel:
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Yeah sure, I'm Liverpool supporter because i like TAA (ie a talented young English player) and i want all English clubs to do well in Europe :rolleyes:

Check out the Barcelona forum after Madrid beat Liverpool, let me tell you many was delighted!

Sorry I'm not the norm Manchester United fan, ie:- cannot bare to cheer on Jordan Henderson when playing for England because he plays for Liverpool and would rather see England lose so they can see his miserable face when this happens, I'm not like that and glad I'm not like that.
 
He gives me David Luiz vibes. Clearly has very good footballing ability but is in no way a defender, it’s like he’s playing in the wrong position.
 
How difficult is it for Liverpool coaches to 'teach' him how to read and defend against long cross field balls? He might not become great at it but repetitive training will offer some results. It's literally the only tactic opposition teams have against him and us. :rolleyes:
 
Knux said:
He’s really the anti AWB. Can’t defend whatsoever and getting exposed on the counter. However when playing in a great attacking force with minimal defending duties he’s a really good RB.
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AWB also can't defend.
 
The talk of not bringing him to the euros is silly. Yeah he might not have had a great season so he probably won't be first choice but he can always come on and offer something if you're chasing a game.

Bring Walker as first choice RB, and if Southgate plays three at the back you move walker in to RCB and play Alexander-Arnold or Trippier or whoever as the wing-back. I think those are the three I would bring.
 
Adisa said:
AWB also can't defend.
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His positioning can be questioned quite often but his overall defending and 1 on 1 in particular is one of the best in the game. So I have to disagree with you.
 
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