Its not that big a decline, his weaknesses were always hidden by their CB's / defensive mids . Now that that isnt the same he is found out.
The shocking decline of Trent Alexander Arnold
- Thread starter lysglimt
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It’s completely normal to have a player you enjoy that your club cannot own.
Modern day tribalism pollutes the game. In the 90’s, I loved loads of players that didn’t play for United.
Hating De Bruyne because he doesn’t play for your team is really small minded, and sees you miss out. He’s properly brilliant and a joy to watch.
yep totally agree 100%, when on form Pogba is an absolute joy to watch, frustrating in so many ways but the one United player I love watching and when he's on form is easily the most talented player in the league and if he's not playing I'll often not bother watching United
It is ridiculous to think that TAA has had a decline in form. He will regain form very quickly and start dominating games very soon. Stop creating such threads. A decline occurs or should be considered only after the age of 30.
Nothing to do with liking TAA. More to do with how hard you're defending him given the facts that are visible to everyone.Yeah sure, I'm Liverpool supporter because i like TAA (ie a talented young English player) and i want all English clubs to do well in Europe
1 . Gary states he can see why Southgate wouldn't take him. Due to his defensive ability not being as good as other RBs (solidified in his performance against Madrid).
2. Carragher berates Gary, asking him who Gary would pick over and over. When the question he was asked was 'why would Southgate not pick TAA'.
3. Gary responds to that, saying he wasn't asked who he would pick himself.
4. When Gary actually picks his own England Squad, TAA is in it. Yet Carragher again berates Gary for saying 'you just said you wouldn't pick him'. Nonsensical.
Yet, you claimed Gary had lost the argument...? And you're defending TAA as Carragher was on the back of previous seasons? Why, why would a Manager pick a player out of form, on the basis of how he "used" to play? You pick the best players in the present time, the performing players, the in form players. "He's won the Champions League" is not an automatic get out of jail card when you're currently playing awful. There's arguments from both sides in picking TAA but seems like the Liverpool faithful just think he should be a guaranteed pick no matter how he plays currently.
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It's ridiculous to say he's had a decline in form but he'll regain form soon?
So he has had a drop in form?
Nobody is saying he's finished as a footballer, just that he's had a shite season. Which is true.
Football tribalism is one of the best things about the sport. It's also the same thing that makes sports like Rugby so stale. Having said that, tribalism doesn't mean that you can't appreciate rival players.
1 v 1 defending is just one aspect of the game. I agree that in that aspect he is probably the best 1 v 1 defender in the world. But there's a lot more to defending than just 1 v 1. He doesn't do well with off the ball movement. He doesn't anticipate an attackers move but rather reacts to it, and usually too late...
*Modern day tribalism
It’s got worse year on year. Everything is polarised. The best evidence is the idea of “He played for City/Liverpool. Wouldn’t accept him here”. This in an era that rival clubs players holiday for 4 weeks together.
The players give less of a shit about the teams they play for now, yet the fans now care more. It’s not a good thing. It’s so artificial.
He's suffered more than anyone with Pool losing their first choice CBs/having to rotate so regularly this season.
Unless this continues onto next season, I think this season is more a blip than anything.
Unless this continues onto next season, I think this season is more a blip than anything.
I wouldn't like it if we went the Italian route where the two Milan clubs and Juventus seem to swap players every year. I can't really think of many examples of the scenario you are putting forward here. Most people would happily sign the ex City player Sancho. Its extremely rare due to a number of factors that top players switch between rival clubs and frankly I don't mind that. Imagine if Rashford claimed he was a scouse fan all along and joined Liverpool in the summer, that would cause a meltdown.
If your talking about Wan Bissaka then having one aspect of his game be the worlds best is nothing to feel weak over.
He is a young player with 3 years experience in his position and he is world class in one aspect of his play. As he progresses in to his prime you will hope some of his less stronger abilities get stronger so he will be well rounded - which not alot of fullbacks really are.
This isnt true. Very few goals come down our right side, when i picture us losing a goal its coming down Shaws side and AWB being in too far to cover.
Id love a breakdow of how we concede goals because we have conceded 12 goals from open play in the league since the Spurs game.
We actually shape up well. Deadballs is a killer though.
We’d have all taken Gerrard when it looked possible. We’d take Aguero now. Shit, we’d happily take half their squad.
It’s not a binary problem, which is why I get so irked by the binary stances of fans. Pogba is only here because we gave him ALL of the money. It wasn’t love and unfinished business.
Our best ever keeper player for City. Our best ever number 9 did too. Our first iconic manager played for Liverpool. Our most iconic player played for Leeds.
If Klopp came back after a 2 year Bayern or Germany stint and led us to our first title in 13 years, we’d love the gurning toothy fcuker.
It all matters. But only to a point.
Favourite of ALL players? Surely not. If we did a poll what United fan is picking him over someone like Cantona, Keane, Charlton, Robson, Best, once they see their names, to name a few, and if it’s not United players, still no, I don’t see him getting ahead of the likes of Messi, Maradona, Original Ronaldo etc.
I wouldn’t - don’t want an injury prone striker on the decline who will ask for high wages.
Sure - if we could sign Sancho or even Foden, that’s great. But no interest in signing 1) players on decline; 2) certain players that represent more than themselves - become a symbol of what you hate about the other club. Example - Suarez, Terry, Keown, Cole, Gerrard, Carragher.
My point is: Most players that fit your number 2 criteria don’t exist that often anymore. Players are not built that way.
You’ve just accepted you’d take Sancho or Foden. You know you’d take De Bruyne, Diaz too. In your heart of hearts.
I’m sure you’d take Aguero too. If the option was him coming here or going to Chelsea, what would you choose? He’s 32 and still a big deal.
This thread is going to look pretty silly next season. I’m happy to see the scouser decline this year but it’s not as if they have an aging squad full of players who are passed it. In fact they have a more settled starting 11 than we do when healthy. If the scousers continue to hit on players like Jota like they have in the past with Robertson, Salah and Mane, they’ll be right back in the title picture next season. They have a better transfer and footballing structure than we do with a recent history of better recruitment. We need to start signing our own Salahs and Manes before taking the piss tbf.
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They had a great run of signings for sure, but they've not been so perfect in the market lately. Keita has been a massive flop, Ox needs replacing, Thiago has been ordinary, at best, and he's not exactly a young player they can expect to see improvement down the line from from.
Additionally Salah, Mane, and Firmino are not spring chickens anymore. They need refreshing and replacing. In normal market conditions, they could easily command a hefty for whomever of those 3 they'd like to replace first and reinvest it, but that is hard in a pandemic hit market. They also seem set to lose Wijnaldum on a free and while ACL tears aren't career enders, it will still likely take a bit of time for VVD to hit top form, and risk he might never quite get to his peak performance. Their ownership structure under FSG is as much, or even more stringent in terms of financial investment so it will not be easy.
They're not done for, but I also felt this year was their last chance with this cycle of players before they needed a major refresh. That seems like even more the case now.
As far as Trent is concerned. He's a great attacking talent who cannot defend. When they had VVD, and midfield 3 of grafters with Henderson in particular covering for him, who will be 31 this summer, that was the perfect setup for him. If they're moving Thiago into the team that already means there's a shift in how much cover he'll be getting. Fabinho being allowed to move back into midfield will definitely help, but it doesn't fix everything. Even before the injuries this season, and quite frankly post-lockdown last season, there were plenty of signs that teams had worked out how to expose him.
He needs to get better in his defensive duties or a positional switch will be required, because I'm not sure a team balanced so well to allow him to get forward with abandon without being exposed defensively will ever be on the table for him again. Can he do it? He's 22 so surely there's plenty of time to, but his defensive instincts are not impressive in any element of defending, be it 1v1, tracking his man, positional awareness and reading of the game, etc.
His ability on ball is special though. Moving him into midfield may be the eventual and necessary evolution he needs to take in his career.
I don't think he's declining. It's just that his weaknesses are now exposed when Liverpool are struggling.
Can someone explain to me why neville is getting stick for what he said ?
He was asked specifically for reasons SOUTHGATE wouldn't pick him and he came up with valid points.
At no point did he say he wouldn't pick him or even southgate wouldn't.
He was asked specifically for reasons SOUTHGATE wouldn't pick him and he came up with valid points.
At no point did he say he wouldn't pick him or even southgate wouldn't.
We do shape up well and I think we are very sound defensively. But I see several times where AWB doesn't mark his man. The ball may come down Shaw's side, but it's AWB's side where the chance actually comes from. We saw this just the other day with the goal we conceded vs brighton. AWB standing with his back to his man. Take a step back with your back to goal, not back to the player. Then you can see both the ball coming in and the man you're marking. Never take your eye off the man you are marking. AWB does that way too often...
Of course. And he probably will get better at it. This is just a reply to those who think he is the best defensive RB in the league. He isn't. He is the best 1 v 1 but needs some serious work on his man marking when the guy he's marking (or should be marking) doesn't have the ball...
Great post. I agree Ox and Keita have flopped but I’d give Thiago the benefit of reaching his world class levels again with a healthy VVD shifting Fabinho back to midfield. We might see the best of him next year.
I agree that their front 3 have been run into the ground the past few years, which is why they bought Jota who has been excellent when healthy. If they replace Firminio or purchase more depth for the front 3, I think their shelf life will be extended with more rotation. I can see them going after Raphinha or Neto this summer and wouldn’t rule out a bid for Sancho either.
I think TAA on the right side of a midfield 3 should be the next step for him. I think you’re right about his defensive frailties but going forward he’s absolutely world class.
Yeah but the cross came from the left. I agree he has to improve there but being great 1 on 1 doesnt just mean he faces players up. The opposition widemen are trying to get away from him and hes tracking every run to get in position to even tackle. Last year at the Etihad they had Sterling out wide and KDB shifted over behind them in the second half to flood the lanes and just free up Sterling. Aaron won every tackle, tracked every run and shut all 3 down. Thats just an obvious example but hes more than a tackler which people assosiate with 1 on 1.
He shuts everyone down when they are dribbling at him. Like I said, it's when they don't have the ball that he struggles...
And he also struggles with the ball himself.
So you don’t want him in your team when you need a goal and you don’t want him in your team if the opposition has 80% possession and are making runs across the final 3rd to create chances.
Right now he is kind of a niche full back who has uses but isn’t ready for England.
If I was Southgate I’d take Trippier and James to the tournament. Both can cross and James can hit a mean shot.
As you say he can learn how to defend, but wouldn't you say 'attack' is the best form of defence?
Roberto Carlos went through all of his career as a 'he doesn't know how to defend' player. But that was the player he was, for all his average defending you was getting a weapon in an offensive role and because of that he's gone down as one of the greatest (if not the greatest) full backs to ever have played the game.
TAA's offensive capablities along with crossing, passing/assist ratio's (winger like) and ablity to hit a dead ball, that is unique and a weapon - He will get better at defending, but he will never be a great defensive RB, so question you need to ask yourself would you rather have a weapon a like Carlos/TAA or try take something from their their game and make them a more traditional RB?
I know what i'd choose, i'd rather have that weapon in my team, a weapon that as already resulted in sucess (Champions League/Premier League).
Let me tell you, trying to tell Carlos to stay back and defend majority of the game would have been a disaster, trying to do with same with TAA may well be too, players like that you just have to let them play to their strengths as you know you've already had sucess with it and just 'hope' in time there may be a slight improvement defensive wise with experience.
He hasn't declined Liverpool have (not actually declined more struggling as I firmly believe they will be back to normal next season with crowds and CB's back) he's playing pretty much the same as he always have. Even his assists have suffered from not having Van dijk head in his corners in never mind how much him missing has hampered the way they play.
Van dyke did everything, he covered all the back line with his pace, brought confidence, could play forward creative passes, score goals. Him missing has made that whole team drop levels.
Van dyke did everything, he covered all the back line with his pace, brought confidence, could play forward creative passes, score goals. Him missing has made that whole team drop levels.
I wouldn't take either
For me, Walker is England's best all around RB and is the starter, however if England is chasing a game and need a goal then TAA is the best attacking RB in the world, so he would be my other option. Not sure where all the Reece James love seems to come from. He can't lace TAA's boots let alone replace him. If England were to take a 3rd RB then Trippier would be my 3rd choice...
One trick pony's always get found out sooner or later.
The decline started while VVD was fully fit. They conceded 7 vs Villa with him in the side.
Probably agree on Thiago as I think he’s dynamite.
It’s a very weird tactic to buy players that you can/will only use in one way though.
Trent can only look good if VVD plays? Thiago can only show his worth if Fabinho plays alongside him? That’s nonsensical as a premise, and insane that we give Klopp a pass for it.
Reece James is excellent and has performed better on the whole for England than TAA has. In my opinion of course
I wouldn't take either
For me, Walker is England's best all around RB and is the starter, however if England is chasing a game and need a goal then TAA is the best attacking RB in the world, so he would be my other option. Not sure where all the Reece James love seems to come from. He can't lace TAA's boots let alone replace him. If England were to take a 3rd RB then Trippier would be my 3rd choice...
Think James is the most balanced out of all England’s right backs. Weird thing is that with all the right back talent we have there’s not a single player really putting their name on the position. On club form this season it has to be Trippier.
Reece James is excellent and has performed better on the whole for England than TAA has. In my opinion of course
It's all about expectations. James is newish to the spotlight so his expectations are low, but TAA has been touted as the best RB in the world so his expectations are high. But if you just compare the two head to head, TAA is a much better player and better option to have on the bench if chasing a game, or to start a game against lesser teams. Otherwise, Walker starts...
Both Walker and Trippier are far superior for balanced play. And TAA is far superior as an attacking RB. Sorry, but James (for me) has a long way to go to even be in the discussion...
Nobody is asking him to stay back and not attack at all, but he has to be able to perform defensively at an acceptable level when asked to. Falling asleep on a throw in and not marking Vinicius for their 3rd goal when there wasn't any other Madrid player in the area is unacceptably bad.
He just flat out falls asleep or is unaware far too often, and it's to the point where teams target him for it constantly and he's not improved or adapted to cope with it at all.
If he can't do that then he will suffer the consequences.