Helping NM
The Second RedCafe Sheep Draft
- Thread starter Skizzo
- Start date
Helping NM
The official FIFA site has everything. It's a bit bothersome to navigate, but it's all there. The 1930 World Cup, for instance:
http://www.fifa.com/tournaments/archive/worldcup/uruguay1930/index.html
Select "matches" and then click on the final score to get the stats/data from the match, including full line-ups, bookings, etc.
Yeah, which raises the question if sending offs/cautions before that one smart UEFA official got bored in front of a traffic light and came up with the idea of cards count as well.
@Skizzo needs to make a call here.
There were truckloads of options, just realised looking up sheep, absolute trainloads actually.
Wikipedia is better, as you get a whole group/all of the knockout stages on one page - very quick to skim the yellow cards.
Either there wasn't a single booking in 1930 or the stats regarding cautions (which are bookings as far as I know) are incomplete/completely missing. I definitely know that to be true for some of the games in the 50's and 60's. The expulsions are listed correctly from what I know though.
Wiki has the same problem with the tournaments before 1970, at least from what I've seen in the German and English wikipedia pages.
There were red cards. Right?
Players were sent off, but no one got shown a red card before 1970 as far as I know.
So if it was a final match, then other years are permissible.
If it was a semi/quarter, then within the same tournament only?
This is confusing. Can we align both?
Yeah, some of the dismissals are missing from older tournaments, but it's not really that relevant for this round (with the one exception).
That's true in the sense of being shown an actual red card - but players were sent off before that, as early as 1930, in fact.
As far as the FIFA site goes, you're right - something is wrong there, has to be.
AFAIK they only started keeping record in 1970. If managers are able to show proof of cautions in world cup matches before then...I'll accept it.
Is wiki proof enough for red cards before 1970? It lists some.
I think there are records of dismissals (players sent off) but not of cautions (which were given, just like latter day yellow cards but not recorded). So, you'd have to dig up a match where two players were sent off in the same match - or two players who were sent off at the same stage. The latter could be possible, I suppose.
Wiki would be fine.
shouldn't people know their sheep before they plan for the next round @Skizzo
@Skizzo on my query before..appreciate a response.
Unless you are actually planning to play him, why?
If we go on to get a 2nd sheep, then pre-planning is necessary!
If you choose a player from a final, and one Player is blocked, you'll need to pick two players from another match. No jumping between years for matches.
If that's preferred then we can. I thought people would want to move ahead. I'm fine either way.
I doubt these will be the last sheep people pick up
After much deliberation, the sheep picks are almost here...
Correct. The absence of cards and any sort of disciplinary follow-up also makes the stats complete dogshite. All you can really go on as fact is expulsions pre-1970 as there was no tallying up of cautions and suspensions for accumulating them. They were in-game affairs so once the game was over no one gave two fecks about recording them.
No drum roll?
Even during the game they were more or less meaningless, right? The 2nd yellow = red rule wasn't introduced until the early 90's, so a caution pre 1970 meant feck all. From 1970 onwards it at least meant you could miss a game later in the tournaments if you collected a 2nd one in another game.
Exactly, it was akin to a ref cautioning a player these days, just a warning. It's pretty obvious they did it a lot more often than has been recorded and, AFAIC, they don't have the same status as a yellow card. Not at all.
IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT:
Anyone not happy with his sheep is free to come forward and swap him for Mourinho or Rafa Benítez.
FCFS.
Anyone not happy with his sheep is free to come forward and swap him for Mourinho or Rafa Benítez.
FCFS.
No Rafa then?
I might be a pussy this round.
Restating the process:
STEP 1:
Players needing a sheep - 9
Edgar Allan Pillow - Rijkaard, Sammer, Zoff = Greedy feck
BorisDeLaFora = Rijkaard, Sammer, Zoff =
Cutch - Cruyff, Zoff, Vialli = Forward
Sajeev = ADS, Haan, Zebec = Capello
Joga Bonito = Rijkaard, Haan, Zebec = Capello, blocked, uh oh
MJJ = ADS, Zoff, Vialli = Forward
Kazi = Beckenbauer, Zoff, Stankovic = should get the best sheep poor unlucky sod
MDFC Manager = Cruyff, Puskas, Deschamps = clearly wants a GOAT, a manager one surely...
Raees = ADS, Puskas, Deschamps = zy
STEP 2: Rule out any player anywhere close to being as good as Haan (blocked) or Ancelotti (worst picked player), let alone the better ones...
STEP 2.5 rule out unheard of people, they have a habit of being ignored rather than being considered sheep. If anyone sees Rafa Benítez in midfield, they know EXACTLY what is going on.
STEP 3: Find out if whoever remains is someone who actually played football at all, at least beyond Youth Level. Hopefully. Maybe not.
STEP 3.25: AEstablish minimum criterion of one cap, or similar (Olympics/League XI, etc.).
STEP 3.5: Consult with Balu/Chester/Gio
STEP 3.75: Ignore Balu/Chester/Gio (joking)
STEP 4: Allocate
STEP 1:
Players needing a sheep - 9
Edgar Allan Pillow - Rijkaard, Sammer, Zoff = Greedy feck
BorisDeLaFora = Rijkaard, Sammer, Zoff =
Cutch - Cruyff, Zoff, Vialli = Forward
Sajeev = ADS, Haan, Zebec = Capello
Joga Bonito = Rijkaard, Haan, Zebec = Capello, blocked, uh oh
MJJ = ADS, Zoff, Vialli = Forward
Kazi = Beckenbauer, Zoff, Stankovic = should get the best sheep poor unlucky sod
MDFC Manager = Cruyff, Puskas, Deschamps = clearly wants a GOAT, a manager one surely...
Raees = ADS, Puskas, Deschamps =
zySTEP 2: Rule out any player anywhere close to being as good as Haan (blocked) or Ancelotti (worst picked player), let alone the better ones...
STEP 2.5 rule out unheard of people, they have a habit of being ignored rather than being considered sheep. If anyone sees Rafa Benítez in midfield, they know EXACTLY what is going on.
STEP 3: Find out if whoever remains is someone who actually played football at all, at least beyond Youth Level. Hopefully. Maybe not.
STEP 3.25: AEstablish minimum criterion of one cap, or similar (Olympics/League XI, etc.).
STEP 3.5: Consult with Balu/Chester/Gio
STEP 3.75: Ignore Balu/Chester/Gio (joking)
STEP 4: Allocate
@Skizzo just to make sure, because it isn't mentioned in the rules in the op. Blocked players are blocked for good, right? Not just for the criterion; e.g. Beckenbauer is still blocked now and can't be picked.
Yeah, any blocked player from any round goes to the blocked list. Those players are now unavailable for the rest of the draft.
True. Though you can come across old match reports in which it is mentioned that such and such player was cautioned by the ref - and it certainly was common to report it when someone was sent off. But it wasn't officially recorded (i.e. the ref didn't actually write anyone's name in his little book) prior to 1970, when the present system with yellow and red cards was introduced.
However, one could say that the old system of cautions was indeed similar to modern bookings, as a caution would often constitute a direct warning to the player: Do that again - and you're off.
@Edgar Allan Pillow gets a certain player who could easily be mistaken for a Maffia bodyguard.
Or a pornstar... Look at that hairy chest! All man!!!
NEREO ROCCO
Or a pornstar... Look at that hairy chest! All man!!!
NEREO ROCCO
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Meh, give him Rafa
@BorisDeLeFora could do with some help from @Balu and @PedroMendez to research the one and only:
Sorry, wrong Bela:
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Sorry, wrong Bela:
Tbh, this no longer feels like a sheep draft. The last draft had actual sheep.