The search for a holding/controlling midfielder

[djdhrubs]

I've never seen Weigl play, but it seems obvious to me that Dortmund would sell if you threw anything like £50-80m at them, even if they're not a selling club. That kind of money can't be ignored by a German club unless you're Bayern. We have a buying/ selling relationship with Dortmund in recent years too.

Whether we'll actually go for him or not is another matter, as we don't know whether Jose wants a physical beast of a pure DM, or someone with a more rounded skillset. Personally I'd like us to get someone who is primarily a good passer with positional awareness. I think that leads to better football.

 

[Adnan]

If Jose wants a physical beast as a DM then look no further than Danilo Pereira from Porto.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

If Jose wants a physical beast as a DM then look no further than Danilo Pereira from Porto.

Gossip: United scout Porto midfielder
There are reports in Portugal today that United had people watching Portugal midfielder Danilo Pereira last night.

11h
Jan Hagen @PortuBall
21-year-old André Silva is the 1st Portuguese to score 20 goals+ for Porto since D. Paciência scored 31 goals the year Silva was born. Star. pic.twitter.com/iNxOQmMblb


Follow
Jan Hagen @PortuBall
Man Utd & Liverpool scouted Porto's 7-0 win vs Nacional last night. A Bola claim they were watching their superb midfielder Danilo Pereira. pic.twitter.com/BMnbF96oyc

10:16 AM - 5 Mar 2017

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[Dong Fangzhuo]

If Jose wants a physical beast as a DM then look no further than Danilo Pereira from Porto.

Looks like a good shout. Probably ticks a lot of boxes for Jose, a tall athletic DM approaching his prime.

 

[Adnan]

Looks like a good shout. Probably ticks a lot of boxes for Jose, a tall athletic DM approaching his prime.

With searing pace aswell

 

[Cheekiey]

I'v watched quite a few Porto games and his passing is very underrated, I really hope we get him, he'd be my first choice ahead of Weigl, N'Zonzi and the rest.

 

[Hahao]

Marko Rog from Napoli is starting to look like a hell of a player. Being compared to Roy Keane.
I noticed him in that game when Croatia beat Spain in Euro 2016 without Modric or Rakitic in the midfield and he played an amazing game. Watched him vs Roma a couple of days ago and I must say those comparisons to Roy Keane are not unwarranted.
He is someone we should keep a close eye on.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Anyone watch the Inter Milan 7-1 drubbing of Kessie's Atalanta where he was subbed after 61mins? How much was he to blame for this?

 

[Pablitoooo]

Anyone watch the Inter Milan 7-1 drubbing of Kessie's Atalanta where he was subbed after 61mins? How much was he to blame for this?

Mr Gasperini subbed Kessie and Gomez, Atalanta's best players (also in that terrible match for them)

According to me, to preserve them , looking to the next match (unusual, I know)

 

[prtk0811]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/22/arsen...nited-transfer-is-his-real-objective-6465761/

I think We Will not Replace Carrick directly this year, instead add fabinho to do the job and keep carrick for another year who fills in Schweinsteiger's spot. Fellani will get to stay again.

When Carrick retires then we can see if the likes of Weighl Become available for his passing range and overall quality.

 

[Fracture90]

http://metro.co.uk/2017/02/22/arsen...nited-transfer-is-his-real-objective-6465761/

I think We Will not Replace Carrick directly this year, instead add fabinho to do the job and keep carrick for another year who fills in Schweinsteiger's spot. Fellani will get to stay again.

When Carrick retires then we can see if the likes of Weighl Become available for his passing range and overall quality.

Pretty much this.


Can see Weigl going to Madrid or Barcelona tho.

 

[bucky]

Recently Kovacic has done well for Madrid as the deepest midfielder. His passing has always been very good. I don't think it's his best position, but he could be an interesting option as a rotation player next to either Pogba and Herrera with someone like Fabinho or Danilo as the holding midfielder.

 

[Icemav]

Gossip: United scout Porto midfielder
There are reports in Portugal today that United had people watching Portugal midfielder Danilo Pereira last night.

11h
Jan Hagen @PortuBall
21-year-old André Silva is the 1st Portuguese to score 20 goals+ for Porto since D. Paciência scored 31 goals the year Silva was born. Star. pic.twitter.com/iNxOQmMblb


Follow
Jan Hagen @PortuBall
Man Utd & Liverpool scouted Porto's 7-0 win vs Nacional last night. A Bola claim they were watching their superb midfielder Danilo Pereira. pic.twitter.com/BMnbF96oyc

10:16 AM - 5 Mar 2017

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  33 Retweets
  
• 
  33 likes

Just the kind of signing I like. Slightly under the radar. Should be good value. Massive upside potential.

Quote frankly he looks a beast with all the tools to dominate.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Anyone watch the Inter Milan 7-1 drubbing of Kessie's Atalanta where he was subbed after 61mins? How much was he to blame for this?

Atalanta werent out played, but were punished on the counter and with set pieces very early, with Icardi having one of those games. The game quickly got out of hand with Icardi scoring his hat trick under 30mins and inter up 5-0 in 35 mins.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Geis anyone?

 

[VorZakone]

Geis anyone?

Hasn't impressed at Schalke at all.

 

[bucky]

Geis anyone?

Despite being better than Bentaleb and Stambouli, he doesn't play as much.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

This is a key position that needs to filled with quality but there doesnt seem to be many solid options in the market.

Whoever it is, needs to be an enforcer, the kind that can put in that crunching tackle that makes you think twice about running into the teeth of our defence. Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, and Gilberto Silva are some that come to mind.

Think our midfield is too soft in tackling and I am not a fan of the choir boy DM who is only interested in winning the ball with a 'neat' tackle

 

[ghagua]

I would love to see Ndidi from Leicester City come into our team. With him in the holding midfield role, it will free up Pogba to go into attack mode.

 

[Sterling Archer]

This is a key position that needs to filled with quality but there doesnt seem to be many solid options in the market.

Whoever it is, needs to be an enforcer, the kind that can put in that crunching tackle that makes you think twice about running into the teeth of our defence. Xabi Alonso, Mascherano, and Gilberto Silva are some that come to mind.

Think our midfield is too soft in tackling and I am not a fan of the choir boy DM who is only interested in winning the ball with a 'neat' tackle

I always saw Alonso as exactly that - a smart player that didn't need late, reckless tackles to get the defensive work done. Not too dissimilar to Carrick.

A lot of us have been dreaming of this archetype you're describing since Keane. I don't think we do. The tactics in the league have changed particularly with lower table teams. I think the more composed, positionally adept CM is more important to our team chemistry. Someone that will allow Pogba especially to be freer to roam.

 

[luke511]

Whoever we buy the player needs to be very gifted and creative in his passing, being great at defending isn't enough to hold a place in our midfield.

Does Danilo Pereira have top level passing in him? Because that's what we need for our team to benefit.

 

[SirAF]

I always saw Alonso as exactly that - a smart player that didn't need late, reckless tackles to get the defensive work done. Not too dissimilar to Carrick.

A lot of us have been dreaming of this archetype you're describing since Keane. I don't think we do. The tactics in the league have changed particularly with lower table teams. I think the more composed, positionally adept CM is more important to our team chemistry. Someone that will allow Pogba especially to be freer to roam.

Whoever we buy the player needs to be very gifted and creative in his passing, being great at defending isn't enough to hold a place in our midfield.

Does Danilo Pereira have top level passing in him? Because that's what we need for our team to benefit.

Yeah, I would agree with this.

The perfect player, for me, to bring in would be someone with the passing, vision and positioning of Carrick + slightly stronger and faster. Does he exist?

 

[P-Nut]

Yeah, I would agree with this.

The perfect player, for me, to bring in would be someone with the passing, vision and positioning of Carrick + slightly stronger and faster. Does he exist?

Kroos is slightly quicker than Carrick and has the same passing range if not slightly better. Wouldn't call him stronger though and getting him would be next to impossible.

I think if we do go this route we'll have to look at promising youngsters that can develop into the role rather than a ready made replacement. There really aren't many of that type of player out there currently that can combine speed, strength and dictating the play.

 

[SirAF]

Kroos is slightly quicker than Carrick and has the same passing range if not slightly better. Wouldn't call him stronger though and getting him would be next to impossible.

I think if we do go this route we'll have to look at promising youngsters that can develop into the role rather than a ready made replacement. There really aren't many of that type of player out there currently that can combine speed, strength and dictating the play.

They can have de Gea if we can have him..

Yeah, I'd agree with the second part.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

I always saw Alonso as exactly that - a smart player that didn't need late, reckless tackles to get the defensive work done. Not too dissimilar to Carrick.

A lot of us have been dreaming of this archetype you're describing since Keane. I don't think we do. The tactics in the league have changed particularly with lower table teams. I think the more composed, positionally adept CM is more important to our team chemistry. Someone that will allow Pogba especially to be freer to roam.

Then you have truly misjudge Alonso. La Barba Roja is one the hardest tacklers of recent time (one of the best things he brought away from playing in the EPL). Better still is the calmness with which he does it. Only Gilberto Silva is superior in that regards, keeping a straight face while almost breaking your leg.

I am not asking for someone with a fiery temper that can easily get sent off, or someone who make rash and/or bad tackles (as thats just a poor DM). But someone who makes solid hard tackles and not trying to win the ball like if he is afraid of physical contact. Of course you need to have very good positional sense to be a great DM (else you are often out of the play and left making late and rash challenges) but that grit is also needed as it gives you an added edge over the opposition.

The Juve defence stifled Barca not just because of what they did but also of how the went about it - they didnt pull their punches. Another example, was when Mourinho man-marked Messi using Pepe, it was so obvious that Messi was intimidated and was seeing Pepe's shadow where there was none. For me, those are the little things that get you over the edge in those close games.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Then you have truly misjudge Alonso. La Barba Roja is one the hardest tacklers of recent time (one of the best things he brought away from playing in the EPL). Better still is the calmness with which he does it. Only Gilberto Silva is superior in that regards, keeping a straight face while almost breaking your leg.

I am not asking for someone with a fiery temper that can easily get sent off, or someone who make rash and/or bad tackles (as thats just a poor DM). But someone who makes solid hard tackles and not trying to win the ball like if he is afraid of physical contact. Of course you need to have very good positional sense to be a great DM (else you are often out of the play and left making late and rash challenges) but that grit is also needed as it gives you an added edge over the opposition.

The Juve defence stifled Barca not just because of what they did but also of how the went about it - they didnt pull their punches. Another example, was when Mourinho man-marked Messi using Pepe, it was so obvious that Messi was intimidated and was seeing Pepe's shadow where there was none. For me, those are the little things that get you over the edge in those close games.

I get what you are trying to say in this piece but I would say of all his attributes Alonso isn't well known for hard tackling. Someone like Gattuso would be an obvious example of a hard tackler, basically a terrier like player who is a nightmare to play against (what I think Mou is trying to do with Herrera).

Alonso is a great sitting CM and obviously I'm not saying he can't tackle but 'one of the hardest tacklers of recent times' he is not.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Kroos is slightly quicker than Carrick and has the same passing range if not slightly better. Wouldn't call him stronger though and getting him would be next to impossible.

I think if we do go this route we'll have to look at promising youngsters that can develop into the role rather than a ready made replacement. There really aren't many of that type of player out there currently that can combine speed, strength and dictating the play.

At Madrid Casemiro is the DM while Kroos plays further upfield. Kroos is not a DM, and Madrid failed when they tried to use him like one. He doesnt have the side-side speed and his ball winning, recovery and positioning are not good enough for the position, particularly if you want to liberate Pogba. Kroos can play as a deep lying playmaker, but you would have to put 2 ball winner around him (similar to what was done with Pirlo at Milan).

What you need along side Pogba is a true DM with decent ball playing skills i.e. enough to get it to a dropping back AM or long ball to CF when Pogba is under pressure or man-marked. Most of the playmaking will run through Pogba, and having a player similar to carrick next to him, simply replicates the playmaking without adding the needed defensive coverage. You can get away with it against weaker teams but will be punished by any quality opposition.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

I get what you are trying to say in this piece but I would say of all his attributes Alonso isn't well known for hard tackling. Someone like Gattuso would be an obvious example of a hard tackler, basically a terrier like player who is a nightmare to play against (what I think Mou is trying to do with Herrera).

Alonso is a great sitting CM and obviously I'm not saying he can't tackle but 'one of the hardest tacklers of recent times' he is not.

Gattuso and Herrera are actually not hard tacklers. They are what I would call hecklers. They have insane work rate, would nibble at your heels all night and almost drive you insane.

On Alonso (one of my all time favorite players, who I have followed since he was at Soceidad), I suggest next time you watch him play, you focus a bit more on his tackling. The guy simply doesnt shy away. He reminds me of Baresi, in that most times he will rely on good positioning to win the ball easily, but if he needs to tackle, he goes in fully.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Gattuso and Herrera are actually not hard tacklers. They are what I would call hecklers. They have insane work rate, would nibble at your heels all night and almost drive you insane.

On Alonso (one of my all time favorite players, who I have followed since he was at Soceidad), I suggest next time you watch him play, you focus a bit more on his tackling. The guy simply doesnt shy away. He reminds me of Baresi, in that most times he will rely on good positioning to win the ball easily, but if he needs to tackle, he goes in fully.

I don't think a heckler + hard tackling are mutually exclusive though? I also don't really know how you could ever prove/disprove that he is a really tough tackler but kudos if you have genuinely followed him since then.

Sadly it will be tough to judge as he's hanging up his boots soon.

 

[P-Nut]

At Madrid Casemiro is the DM while Kroos plays further upfield. Kroos is not a DM, and Madrid failed when they tried to use him like one. He doesnt have the side-side speed and his ball winning, recovery and positioning are not good enough for the position, particularly if you want to liberate Pogba. Kroos can play as a deep lying playmaker, but you would have to put 2 ball winner around him (similar to what was done with Pirlo at Milan).

What you need along side Pogba is a true DM with decent ball playing skills i.e. enough to get it to a dropping back AM or long ball to CF when Pogba is under pressure or man-marked. Most of the playmaking will run through Pogba, and having a player similar to carrick next to him, simply replicates the playmaking without adding the needed defensive coverage. You can get away with it against weaker teams but will be punished by any quality opposition.

Yeah I agree he hasn't got the destroyer attributes. However we're missing a lot of Pogbas game at the moment due to him having to drop deep to build play. A true regista would allow him to push further forward where as a destroyer would still need Pogba dropping deep to dictate play.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Yeah I agree he hasn't got the destroyer attributes. However we're missing a lot of Pogbas game at the moment due to him having to drop deep to build play. A true regista would allow him to push further forward where as a destroyer would still need Pogba dropping deep to dictate play.

Pogba is best suited as a CM and from all indications that is where Mourinho plans to play him going forward. He is not suited to being an AM around the edge of the box, true AMs like Ozil, James, Silva, Eriksen etc are more suited to such role.

 

[P-Nut]

Pogba is best suited as a CM and from all indications that is where Mourinho plans to play him going forward. He is not suited to being an AM around the edge of the box, true AMs like Ozil, James, Silva, Eriksen etc are more suited to such role.

And I don't want him to be an AM. I want him to be an attack minded cm. He can play in the middle and have more freedom to get forward than he currently has with a regista. With a destroyer he would still be needed to stay deep and dictate play.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

And I don't want him to be an AM. I want him to be an attack minded cm. He can play in the middle and have more freedom to get forward than he currently has with a regista. With a destroyer he would still be needed to stay deep and dictate play.

A regista is simply the play maker, and depending on his defensive ability, the formation and the style of play, would dictate which position and how much freedom Pogba gets.

You need to at least establish the formation and/or style of play, before you can proceed to specify which type of player will fit in which roles. Without establishing some framework, the player selection becomes incoherent.

 

[Rob Bowman]

If Jose wants a physical beast as a DM then look no further than Danilo Pereira from Porto.

Why has this muppet dream died... ?

 

[GM K]

I suspect Jose will sign Blaise Matuidi. This has been under the radar. Unexpected but it will fit. Very much Jose type. He has that winning mentality. Tough tackler. Decent in passing. Experienced and can be available. Zlatan, Raiola and Pogba can make this easy. He looks like he can still put in three to four solid seasons of football.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

I suspect Jose will sign Blaise Matuidi. This has been under the radar. Unexpected but it will fit. Very much Jose type. He has that winning mentality. Tough tackler. Decent in passing. Experienced and can be available. Zlatan, Raiola and Pogba can make this easy. He looks like he can still put in three to four solid seasons of football.

Not a true DM and lacks positional awareness. Its high risk playing him behind Pogba and not sure he can learn the required discipline quickly enough at his age.

 

[Mr Smith]

Not a true DM and lacks positional awareness. Its high risk playing him behind Pogba and not sure he can learn the required discipline quickly enough at his age.

I agree with this. I'd honestly prefer Dier to Matuidi; much more positionally disciplined and a better passer as well. Neither would be my first choice though, Danilo Pereria or Leandro Pardares would probably both be better.

 

[remember me]

At Madrid Casemiro is the DM while Kroos plays further upfield. Kroos is not a DM, and Madrid failed when they tried to use him like one. He doesnt have the side-side speed and his ball winning, recovery and positioning are not good enough for the position, particularly if you want to liberate Pogba. Kroos can play as a deep lying playmaker, but you would have to put 2 ball winner around him (similar to what was done with Pirlo at Milan).

What you need along side Pogba is a true DM with decent ball playing skills i.e. enough to get it to a dropping back AM or long ball to CF when Pogba is under pressure or man-marked. Most of the playmaking will run through Pogba, and having a player similar to carrick next to him, simply replicates the playmaking without adding the needed defensive coverage. You can get away with it against weaker teams but will be punished by any quality opposition.

At the beginning of the season I thought Pogba's best position would be at a defensive 10 or the most attacking of a 3 man midfield. I honestly think now his best position for us will be as the box-box player in a 2 man midfield partnered with a true DM. the reality is that Pogba is our playmaker in midfield and it would be better for the team in creativity & goal scoring to play an attacking 10 ahead of a 2 man midfield in most games. sure in CL and big PL games we can play a midfield 3 but this would restrict us against most opposition. Kroos or even another box-box player wouldn't make much sense for our first team unless it was a relatively cheap transfer for a backup for Pogba

 

[AgentP]

What happened to Krychowiak? He was terrific for Sevilla but totally disappeared in PSG.

 

[Woeisme]

Why is Blind not an option here?
If he's got enough about him defensively to play center half, he should have sufficient to be able to protect 2 center halfs.
He's played full back often enough to suggest he'd be comfortable covering that position should Valencia or Shaw get caught up field
He's well able to pass the ball, has enough delivery/ technique to earn himself corner duties for a large part of this season.

Are these 70-80 million priced players that we are coveting, that much better than this guy?