I would say Cafu and Zanetti are the best and then its between andrade and santos. Andrade is marking giggs so has an easier job compared to santos who is against garrincha.
The Road Trip Draft SF: MJJ vs Indnyc
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I would say Cafu and Zanetti are the best and then its between andrade and santos. Andrade is marking giggs so has an easier job compared to santos who is against garrincha.
I do have makelele and scirea in there to cover for that possibility, secondly I also have falcao and saurez in the middle who will dominate if edwards/keane spend a significant portion of their time outwide.
I am going to drop this if you think Santos is worse than Andrade
Why? Is Giggs/Santos and Maldini not enough to stop Garrincha you need a 4th player there?
Scirea is good but between Charlton and Law, there are enough body's to defend from the front and reduce his influence
That was in response to moby saying edwards would be helping out your left side.
I am curious, if giggs/santos/maldini are spending a lot of energy defending garrincha does that not a)leave andrade free to playmak from the back and b)leave van basten free?
Good thing I have makelele and vierchowod to help him out.
Well there is 1 ball.. If the ball is with Garrincha, don't think Andrade is playmaking from the back. In the defensive phase of the game, we have more people to defend than you do
By 1968 Dzajic was one of the most acclaimed attacking players in Europe and was both the top scorer and voted the outstanding player of the 1968 European Nations Cup. During the late 1960s and early 1970s, he was in his prime and Red Star became wholly dependant upon his regular supply of both goals and assists.
There were few better sights in football than Džajić in full flight, tormenting opposing full backs to the point of bewilderment with his near supernatural ball control, then scoring himself or, more commonly, finding a teammate in a better position with an immaculate judged delivery. He was a player who would be adored by modern coaches because for all his skill, his ‘end product’ was so reliable and consistent.
For Serbia’s Dragan Džajić, his country’s greatest ever footballing talent, the most memorable commendation came from none other than Pelé. “Džajić is the Balkan miracle – a real wizard,” said the legendary forward, after the two did battle in 1968, “I’m just sorry he’s not Brazilian because I’ve never seen such a natural footballer
Džajić may have been denied the European Championship title but he was paid some recompense in his placing third in the year’s Ballon d’Or, behind George Best and Bobby Charlton; a result that, though an honour itself, Germany defender Franz Beckenbauerwas said to have taken issue with, believing Džajić to be the rightful winner.
There were few better sights in football than Džajić in full flight, tormenting opposing full backs to the point of bewilderment with his near supernatural ball control, then scoring himself or, more commonly, finding a teammate in a better position with an immaculate judged delivery. He was a player who would be adored by modern coaches because for all his skill, his ‘end product’ was so reliable and consistent.
For Serbia’s Dragan Džajić, his country’s greatest ever footballing talent, the most memorable commendation came from none other than Pelé. “Džajić is the Balkan miracle – a real wizard,” said the legendary forward, after the two did battle in 1968, “I’m just sorry he’s not Brazilian because I’ve never seen such a natural footballer
Džajić may have been denied the European Championship title but he was paid some recompense in his placing third in the year’s Ballon d’Or, behind George Best and Bobby Charlton; a result that, though an honour itself, Germany defender Franz Beckenbauerwas said to have taken issue with, believing Džajić to be the rightful winner.
Ah so the gameplan is to leave garrincha alone with just santos until he has the ball?
It's a good backup to have, doubt it will be needed a lot but still against Garrincha you need a few layers of defense to contain him. Given the fact that all three of his midfielders are capable of going forward with the ball as well as defend whereas someone like Makelele wouldn't offer much in attack allows him to have Edwards/Maldini as the final shutting down tool for Garrincha who would usually be dealing with Giggs+Nilton. Sir Bobby's great workrate will ensure he plugs those holes without worrying too much about Makelele making a forward run.
It's usually frustrating to see Garrincha get shut down by a single Maldini or another top defender when in reality it required entire defenses to stop him but this is one of the best overall frameworks to deal with him with tight security and cover if needed. Garrincha usually picked the ball fairly deep so I see it more of an assignment for Giggs or Edwards in terms of supporting Nilton. Either one of them can come for aid and the other can hold the fort in the middle, while Sir Bobby always being there working hard as usual. Loads of workrate and willingness in that part of the pitch makes it a significant factor in this game for me.
Aye, there's not a single great left winger that I'd trust more than Giggs to track back and help defend against Garrincha.
There is no gameplan to man mark him.. Zonally there are so many defensively astute players on that side to stop him as much as he can be stopped
The beauty of having both Garrincha and Dzajic is that both would need to be double-teamed to be stopped, that opens up space for everyone else on the pitch from Van Basten to Falcao/Suarez.
While Garrincha could be well guarded by a team effort of Giggs and Santos/Maldini, the same is unlikely to happen to Dzajic.
While Garrincha could be well guarded by a team effort of Giggs and Santos/Maldini, the same is unlikely to happen to Dzajic.
I mean falcao alone will take some stopping, especially when he is combining with Dzajic down the left flank.
You understand i have Best and Giggs on the other side as well.. If i have to double team both of them then you need to do the same.. It works both ways..
Charlton/Keane/Edwards is perfect in that it offers a midfield that each player is capable of contributing offensively and defensively
This is where I think indnyc has the advantage with both Giggs and Charlton willing to help out on defense and with Andrade and Makelele probably not contributing as much offensively I think the system works well as a unit.
Best yes, Giggs? No. I don't think you need to double team Giggs.
Best won't be tracking back which means you would need somebody from midfield to go help Cafu out. Specially as he is very offensive so will be bombing on at times too.
Bad thing is that you are up against an equally tough midfield, Falcao, Saurez(finished in top three of Ballon D'or four times compared to once for Sir Bobby), makelele and Scirea adding to the battle as well.
Sir Bobby Charlton.. Arguably the most underrated GOAT here
Perfect No. 10 who will score goals and defend and bring other people into play
Andrade will contribute plenty, he was known for his attacking and defensive play. Makelele won't but having scirea as a libero balances that out.
What version of Suarez are you using?
Charlton and Law are both perfect for stopping the influence of Scirea
All that defensive play will have an impact on their ability to attack though, you can't have it both ways.
The one that was the world's most expensive footballer.
Footballs Greatest - Ryan Giggs
Scirea is a libero, its literally his job to do both. Its a bit different from asking your primary playmaker(remove charlton and that midfield doesn't have a lot of creativity) to defend.
You asked what version and I told you, why so defensive?
Not being defensive.. I just said most expensive player doesn’t mean much..
And of course Charlton can do both perfectly. See how much he helped defensively against Beckenbauer in the 1966 World Cup final
Not being defensive.. I just said most expensive player doesn’t mean much..
And of course Charlton can do both perfectly. See how much he helped defensively against Beckenbauer in the 1966 World Cup final
Charlton was asked to man-mark Beckenbauer in that game, that wasn't his normal duties. His main duties were defensive ones and he wasn't as good attacking wise as he normally is.
It's a shitty answer to be fair. Just say Barcelona's, which, I assume, you've meant.
Good post, i have found Maldini's offensive contribution gets overlooked around here, imo the most balanced FB of all time.
It's actually his first year at inter where his transformation to the deep-lying metronome was ongoing. That's what I meant by the world's most expensive footballer.
Yeah but showing you how good his contribution was.. Not being good offensively is relative.. Look at the amount of touches he has in and around the opposition box..
I am not disputing that, I would say your front six are extremely well balanced with everyone capable of not only putting a shift in but making an equally good contribution defensively and offensively, Best aside.
I just think with what they are up against if they are contributing defensively, they won't be able to contribute offensively that much.
You said Charlton is the most underrated GOAT but suarez is equally if not more underrated, the guy played in the same era as Sir Bobby but has a lot more personal awards.
That's what we wanted to hear — a season and a role, not his bloody transfer record
That's what we wanted to hear — a season and a role, not his bloody transfer record
I have to hype up my players whereever I can given the obvious bias.Nice efforts here
Falcao-Suarez is not really a complimentary pairing, imo. A box to box would be better with either.
Falcao is a box to box Pillow.
I think that's a bit harsh on Santos to be honest. It's hard to assess him and Andrade given the paucity of footage available, but he's always been top tier. Still, nice to see Andrade get his recognition.
Yeah, they're decent efforts but a bit left-field - feel like they could have done with a sense-checking before they were unveiled. I mean Nasazzi and Breitner shouldn't really be under those positions and the fact they are suggests a lack of knowledge of their respective careers which does not breed confidence in the rankings.
True. The best way to deal with somebody like Garrincha is to try and starve him of service and then make the pitch small for him. And probably the key to that is a wide midfielder who can drop in and either double up or block passing lanes. Wider point, but I don't think that gets appreciated as much as it should when we compare teamsheets.
Elsewhere, I like the Zanetti/Dzajic combination. All the time we see outside lefts paired with left backs who want to go down the outside and nobody bats an eyelid. Here is a good example of a partnership where Zanetti could underlap Dzajic and it looks natural and cohesive.
Personally I feel @Physiocrat pretty much nailed the rankings in the P&G draft. All forums have their own biases and largely oldies get a lot more love, but his rankings are as good as it gets.
It’s a good point on Zanetti/Dzajic though i always prefer Zanetti on the right where I feel he can do more damage
Good luck for thr next round @Indnyc
@Indnyc seriously underrates Andrade. Understandable given the little footage available, but in what you can get hold of he is absolutely golden and looks far more effective a defender than either Brazilian (whose defensive game wasn't exactly what made them stellar fullbacks to begin with).
And "understandable" is being kind, fact is we are going through the usual "play on ignorance" which I find a disservice to older players. Football historians who saw both Andrade and Nilton Santos ranked the former higher, and they didn't exactly underrate Santos.
All that said, I like his team, has a nice cohesive theme to it and you can see it playing together effectively, while their rivals look more disjointed and reliant on individualities. With this sort of cast you'd favour the former.
And "understandable" is being kind, fact is we are going through the usual "play on ignorance" which I find a disservice to older players. Football historians who saw both Andrade and Nilton Santos ranked the former higher, and they didn't exactly underrate Santos.
All that said, I like his team, has a nice cohesive theme to it and you can see it playing together effectively, while their rivals look more disjointed and reliant on individualities. With this sort of cast you'd favour the former.