The Road Trip Draft QF: Moby vs Jim Beam

[Jim Beam]

You'll be up against that back 4 + the two CMs both known for their exceptional workrate and defensive nous as soon as you start making your transition. Clearly I back the ball winning ability of that back-unit to curb any attacking moves that come down any path. The only time you can enjoy time on the ball is in your own half.

All channels are perfectly covered, there are no holes for you to exploit like you did in the previous game. A free-roaming Scirea has the authority and the allowance to shut down all the dangers that you can present to us.

Not to mention by doing this your defenders have been successfully dragged further up the pitch with acres of space looming behind them and when swift move to punish it brutally with the sharpest goal drilling machine most of us have seen in their lifetimes.

Now you making him look supernatural. Scirea has the ability to make the impact all over the field, but unfortunately, he is against a GOAT who has even more abilities in that terms. There is no dragging my defenders up the pitch like it's something you planned to do. If Vasovic goes forward, all three stay in the back behind. If Alves push forward it's the same. The team stays compact at all times.
The problem for you is that my forwards can act as midfielders and my defenders also. If you allow them to dictate the game as you mention it, it will just put more chances of me eventually breaking through. And if I break through the whole idea of you sitting on the back falls on its back.

 

[Moby]

Now you making him look supernatural. Scirea has the ability to make the impact all over the field, but unfortunately, he is against a GOAT who has even more abilities in that terms. There is no dragging my defenders up the pitch like it's something you planned to do. If Vasovic goes forward, all three stay in the back behind. If Alves push forward it's the same. The team stays compact at all times.
The problem for you is that my forwards can act as midfielders and my defenders also. If you allow them to dictate the game as you mention it, it will just put more chances of me eventually breaking through. And if I break through the whole idea of you sitting on the back falls on its back.

That's precisely what set Scirea apart. He's not a run of the mill sweeper/ball player defender who'd simply be able to not hoof it 70 yards everytime he wants to pass it.

His mobility and dynamic approach to defending no matter who the opponent was one of the most unique qualities as long as you provided adequate cover when he wanted to disrupt the opposition attack by simply stomping in their action area. With Stielike being able to cover from midfield, Bergomi able to cover from behind and two extremely disciplined and tactically aware fullbacks, you will see Scirea in his full flow here and that is something that will put the brakes on Cruyff's buildups.

A backline of Lizarazu, Scirea, Bergomi and Gerets with Steilike shielding is far better than what you have put against my attack. Taking nothing away from your defenders, who are all very good at what they do, fact is only Kohler matches the level of quality that is holding that fort you are talking about. My defense is far more likely to keep your attack out while yours is against mine and that is one of the most glaring factors in deciding this game. Scirea elevates the entire backline like very few other defenders, he was an inspiring figure at the back, an absolute leader and one who would organise the backline in ruthless effective ways. He wrote defensive schemes to keep out peak Maradona and did it successfully, you have to admit that the resistance your attack will face regardless of the route you choose to attack is far more than I will have every time I get the ball and explode in a counter attack.

 

[Jim Beam]

That's precisely what set Scirea apart. He's not a run of the mill sweeper/ball player defender who'd simply be able to not hoof it 70 yards everytime he wants to pass it.

His mobility and dynamic approach to defending no matter who the opponent was one of the most unique qualities as long as you provided adequate cover when he wanted to disrupt the opposition attack by simply stomping in their action area. With Stielike being able to cover from midfield, Bergomi able to cover from behind and two extremely disciplined and tactically aware fullbacks, you will see Scirea in his full flow here and that is something that will put the brakes on Cruyff's buildups.

A backline of Lizarazu, Scirea, Bergomi and Gerets with Steilike shielding is far better than what you have put against my attack. Taking nothing away from your defenders, who are all very good at what they do, fact is only Kohler matches the level of quality that is holding that fort you are talking about. My defense is far more likely to keep your attack out while yours is against mine and that is one of the most glaring factors in deciding this game. Scirea elevates the entire backline like very few other defenders, he was an inspiring figure at the back, an absolute leader and one who would organise the backline in ruthless effective ways. He wrote defensive schemes to keep out peak Maradona and did it successfully, you have to admit that the resistance your attack will face regardless of the route you choose to attack is far more than I will have every time I get the ball and explode in a counter attack.

The backline is great. The problem you're facing is that my wingers don't operate like classic wingers (Figo for example). The resistance that my back 4 offer is not superior to yours looking man for man, but you're allowing them to play they feel most comfortable in. No pressure, Alves will not be tracked by anyone, when Vasovic goes in he won't be tracked by anyone and they will set numerical advantage time and time again.

You can't explode on the counter as there will be harassed time and time again. You're also just looking at the back line while there are Voronin and Bastian shielding the defense. Couldn't take 2 better players to do it. One marking Messi out of the game, one marking the likes of Eusebio out of the game in their respective careers.

 

[Jim Beam]

Obligatory Joga post

Just finished man-marking one of the players of the tournaments in Florian Albert and playing against the likes of Beckenbauer-Overath-Seeler-Haller? Well up you go against freaking Eusebio, in his 1966 WC form, next then.




(Video quality at the start is poor but I just used those excerpts for the English commentary by Wolstenholme, iirc.



The actual compilation quality is much better, so stick with it.)

We've seen man-marking displays from the likes of Bergomi, Gentile, Stiles and other more 'rugged' players but it's hard to think of more pure and 'clean' man-marking displays than those displayed by Voronin against Albert and Eusebio. Quite something, being the most creative talisman of your side and also simultaneously being the most formidable man-marking presence. If one really wants to appreciate those displays, it'd be better if they watch those matches in full as there were a lot of positional plays (putting pressure in the right areas, preventing Albert/Eusebio from turning and forcing them into simple back passes etc) that I couldn't put inside the video. Far too often we've had the debate about who'd be the ideal holding midfielder (not named Rijkaard) who would be ideally suited to upgrade Busquets in the tiki-taka system or any other system which demands a ball-playing yet defensive resolute and positionally disciplined DM, Voronin has to be amongst the top of the pile imo


Naturally, Voronin would end up being voted into the Best XI of the 1966 WC by the Associated Press (strangely not in the official TOTM, although he made it in the 1962 WC)

Banks; D. Santos, Schulz, Moore, Marzolini; Beckenbauer, Charlton, Voronin; Bene, Eusebio, Simoes

whilst the British pundit team with Don Revie and Billy Wright had this as all star team for this WC:

Banks; Sanchis, Schulz, Moore, Marzolini; Beckenbauer, Charlton; Voronin, Bene, Pelé, Eusebio

A referendum organized by L'Equipe and France Football regarding the best player of the tournament gave the following result:

1- Bobby Charlton ----- 17 votes
2- Franz Beckenbauer - 8 votes
3- Eusébio -------------- 7 votes
4- Valery Voronin ----- 4 votes

 

[Moby]

The backline is great. The problem you're facing is that my wingers don't operate like classic wingers (Figo for example). The resistance that my back 4 offer is not superior to yours looking man for man, but you're allowing them to play they feel most comfortable in. No pressure, Alves will not be tracked by anyone, when Vasovic goes in he won't be tracked by anyone and they will set numerical advantage time and time again.

You can't explode on the counter as there will be harassed time and time again. You're also just looking at the back line while there are Voronin and Bastian shielding the defense. Couldn't take 2 better players to do it. One marking Messi out of the game, one marking the likes of Eusebio out of the game in their respective careers.

My backline being better man to man isn't something you can ignore, that's a huge factor in what will be the outcome of this game.

Especially as the man marshalling it is one of the game's greatest leaders and defenders in Scirea. How else do you judge a match on paper if not by having someone of his stature and credibility and know you can rely on him to get the desired result? He's done that countless times in his career, especially in a setup where he had to build an army and deflect an attack. Not that this is anywhere near a situation you are trying to paint where I am sitting back - but I am playing on fast breaks, quick transitions, enabling more turnovers, more back and forths, not letting you live with the ball. That's exactly how Juve played in the 80s. That's exactly how Italy played in the 80s and that man won whatever there was to win leading those teams into battle.

All over the pitch I have better pedigree of talent, full stop. From defense to central midfield to attacking midfield to the wings and finally in terms of the goalscoring.

With no gaps or tactical flaws for you to exploit, you don't have any plan to mitigate those threats into your favour. You don't have Pep's Barca that you can aim to defend via possessions.

Also, how does Kohler fit into the possession scheme? He is your best defender, but completely out of sync from the rest of the theme. I said it on page 1, if you go towards total football, you either commit fully or you simply play safer. Vasovic and Kohler are completely out of sync from each other in terms of style. A farcry from the natural fit both stylistically and coordination wise Scirea and Bergomi are.

Against a deadly attack as the one they face, one defender pushing up while the other who prefers defending deep against aerial threats and neither being able to cover up when they get beaten on the break is a recipe for disaster. If you watch the Figo that destroyed defenses at Barca, he was a proper modern day wing forward who would dart towards goal and has been set similarly in the graphic. I want all of those three to absolutely take off when they get the ball and not look back.

I don't need many such chances given the man who has goalscoring responsibilities for my team. 2 or 3 of those will be enough to finish the game.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Also, how does Kohler fit into the possession scheme? He is your best defender, but completely out of sync from the rest of the theme. I said it on page 1, if you go towards total football, you either commit fully or you simply play safer. Vasovic and Kohler are completely out of sync from each other in terms of style.

Most likely i wont vote(probably would for you if Iniesta was playing) but this is just wrong. Kohler was actually fantastic on the ball and its not you have to have 4 Beckenbauers at the back if you want to play possession football. I mean Rijsbergen played in original total football and he was immense for them, a lot of players made careers out of one tournament and their rep went up a lot but for some reason nobody gives a feck about this guy. Back to the point, Kohler is comfortably better on the ball then him.
You have Mendy now at City, most likely strongest possession side since Pep's Barca and he is a bit of a donkey on the ball(great crossing ability though) and the guy is playing in a more important position regarding quality on the ball.

 

[Moby]

Most likely i wont vote(probably would for you if Iniesta was playing) but this is just wrong. Kohler was actually fantastic on the ball and its not you have to have 4 Beckenbauers at the back if you want to play possession football. I mean Rijsbergen played in original total football and he was immense for them, a lot of players made careers out of one tournament and their rep went up a lot but for some reason nobody gives a feck about this guy. Back to the point, Kohler is comfortably better on the ball then him.
You have Mendy now at City, most likely strongest possession side since Pep's Barca and he is a bit of a donkey on the ball(great crossing ability though) and the guy is playing in a more important position regarding quality on the ball.

Did Kohler ever play for a possession dominating team at his peak?

Pretty strange with the Iniesta preference over Zidane for a team that is set up with players who spent their best years in direct and/or counter attacking setups their entire careers and it being pretty much a no brainer go with that tactic.

 

[Jim Beam]

My backline being better man to man isn't something you can ignore, that's a huge factor in what will be the outcome of this game.

Especially as the man marshalling it is one of the game's greatest leaders and defenders in Scirea. How else do you judge a match on paper if not by having someone of his stature and credibility and know you can rely on him to get the desired result? He's done that countless times in his career, especially in a setup where he had to build an army and deflect an attack. Not that this is anywhere near a situation you are trying to paint where I am sitting back - but I am playing on fast breaks, quick transitions, enabling more turnovers, more back and forths, not letting you live with the ball. That's exactly how Juve played in the 80s. That's exactly how Italy played in the 80s and that man won whatever there was to win leading those teams into battle.

All over the pitch I have better pedigree of talent, full stop. From defense to central midfield to attacking midfield to the wings and finally in terms of the goalscoring.

With no gaps or tactical flaws for you to exploit, you don't have any plan to mitigate those threats into your favour. You don't have Pep's Barca that you can aim to defend via possessions.

Also, how does Kohler fit into the possession scheme? He is your best defender, but completely out of sync from the rest of the theme. I said it on page 1, if you go towards total football, you either commit fully or you simply play safer. Vasovic and Kohler are completely out of sync from each other in terms of style. A farcry from the natural fit both stylistically and coordination wise Scirea and Bergomi are.

Against a deadly attack as the one they face, one defender pushing up while the other who prefers defending deep against aerial threats and neither being able to cover up when they get beaten on the break is a recipe for disaster. If you watch the Figo that destroyed defenses at Barca, he was a proper modern day wing forward who would dart towards goal and has been set similarly in the graphic. I want all of those three to absolutely take off when they get the ball and not look back.

I don't need many such chances given the man who has goalscoring responsibilities for my team. 2 or 3 of those will be enough to finish the game.

I will judge the players on the ability that the system will get the best out of them. How does Kohler fit in? He is providing cover for Vasovic and he was great on the ball allowing both Vasovic and Alves to push forward. You're relying on back 4 and 2 midfielders to stop it while they will be constantly stretch all around the pitch.

You are also banging about being out of synch when pretty much the whole of my system is perfectly set-up while you're relying on faith that it will work out because they were great players. Also, lacking work-rate in the most important area leaving my midfield to put a stamp on the game.

Newsflash, there is no recipe for disaster here, it's the tight game in which I will have more on the ball with Cruyff dictating it. It's a game of tight margins in which I would certainly back the team who will have more of possession, more of a threat and more shots on the goal.

 

[MJJ]

Did Kohler ever play for a possession dominating team at his peak?

Pretty strange with the Iniesta preference over Zidane for a team that is set up with players who spent their best years in direct and/or counter attacking setups their entire careers and it being pretty much a no brainer go with that tactic.

Iniesta would be pretty great in a direct/counter attacking system though. Very press resistant and can thread passes through the midfield, I thought you took zidane so that others cannot have him.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Did Kohler ever play for a possession dominating team at his peak?

Pretty strange with the Iniesta preference over Zidane for a team that is set up with players who spent their best years in direct and/or counter attacking setups their entire careers and it being pretty much a no brainer go with that tactic.

Does it matter? We play 90% of the players outside their systems and the ways they played, if their talent palette fits i dont see an issue. Same applies for Iniesta, you will be hard to find a more hard working number 10, guy is pretty much a perfect player. Works hard, insane ability yet selfless enough to combine and work with another greats. Fitted perfectly for both Suarez and Ronaldo.

 

[Jim Beam]

I would take Iniesta btw...

 

[Moby]

while you're relying on faith that it will work out because they were great players

Excuse me?

There couldn't be a more tailor made setup built around Cristiano, who as his entire career suggests that when surrounded with ample creativity and service gets you what matters the most - goals.

The amount of links I have described in these two pages between my players all over the pitch are more than enough to suggest just how complimentary this setup is all over the pitch. Let me refresh your eyes one more time. Below are the partnerships that will work like an absolute charm:

Scirea - Bergomi
Scirea - Steilike
Lizarazu - Zidane ( @Ecstatic mentioned this duo couple of days in his thread about great partnerships as well)
Lizarazu - Cristiano
Steilike - Suarez
Gerets - Figo
Suarez - Figo
Figo -> Cristiano
Zidane -> Cristiano
Seeler -> Cristiano
Scirea -> Cristiano
Seeler -> Zidane
Figo -> Seeler
Figo <-> Zidane
Zidane <-> Suarez

Can absolutely see those bunch of players gel brilliantly under these tactics and be on the same page while elevating most of those combinations beyond the sum of the parts. Especially with extremely strong leadership presence all across the spine.

 

[Moby]

Does it matter? We play 90% of the players outside their systems and the ways they played, if their talent palette fits i dont see an issue. Same applies for Iniesta, you will be hard to find a more hard working number 10, guy is pretty much a perfect player. Works hard, insane ability yet selfless enough to combine and work with another greats. Fitted perfectly for both Suarez and Ronaldo.

Have already explained on the preference for Zidane over him in this setup. Can't go wrong either way but there's genuine merit in having a player more comfortable and natural in direct setups as I am looking to open up the game instead of getting into a possession deadlock against the opposition that is also looking to do the same.

 

[Moby]

Iniesta would be pretty great in a direct/counter attacking system though. Very press resistant and can thread passes through the midfield, I thought you took Zidane so that others cannot have him.

Iniesta's peak came under Pep in a tiki taka and in Spain under VDB. That's when he had the greatest moments in his career. That's the facts are. I don't want to go in that direction and have a clash of styles between my best players.

Zidane played in direct setups in France, at Juve and at Madrid. Is a quicker release of the ball with a bigger penchant for direct hollywood passes and pulling them off effortlessly most of the time. That is what is best suited for my attack.

Clearly the fact that I am starting Zidane negates the last statement. Hardly a worry others playing him given just how underrated he is in drafts. In terms of match winning ability very few come close.

 

[Jim Beam]

There couldn't be a more tailor made setup built around Cristiano, who as his entire career suggests that when surrounded with ample creativity and service gets you what matters the most - goals.

It is. That's why I will shut down the routes to Cristiano. Congested midfield around Suarez and Zidane with Cole on Figo.

Your idea is to give possession to Bastian, Voronin, Litmanen, Alves, Gullit, Stoichkov, and Cruyff hoping they are not likely to get through.

 

[Jim Beam]

It is. That's why I will shut down the routes to Cristiano. Congested midfield around Suarez and Zidane with Cole on Figo.

Your idea is to give possession to Bastian, Voronin, Litmanen, Alves, Gullit, Stoichkov, and Cruyff hoping they are not likely to get through.

Oh and Litmanen on Stielike.

 

[Moby]

That's why I will shut down the routes to Cristiano.

It's definitely what you'd hope to. But absolutely not happening, neither with your tactical approach nor with the quality of the players on show. And most importantly, not with the sheer amount of out-balls that have been presented on the pitch.

 

[Moby]

Your idea is to give possession to Bastian, Voronin, Litmanen, Alves, Gullit, Stoichkov, and Cruyff hoping they are not likely to get through.

In their own half. Highly doubt they'd score from there.

 

[MJJ]

Iniesta's peak came under Pep in a tiki taka and in Spain under VDB. That's when he had the greatest moments in his career. That's the facts are. I don't want to go in that direction and have a clash of styles between my best players.

Zidane played in direct setups in France, at Juve and at Madrid. Is a quicker release of the ball with a bigger penchant for direct hollywood passes and pulling them off effortlessly most of the time. That is what is best suited for my attack.

Clearly the fact that I am starting Zidane negates the last statement. Hardly a worry others playing him given just how underrated he is in drafts. In terms of match winning ability very few come close.

I think I rate the both on par, not much between the two. Zidane's peak was higher but Iniesta contributes more to the midfield. Werent spain 2008 pretty direct as well? Still a wonderful side btw just the last iteration felt a bit more natural and suited defensively.

 

[Jim Beam]

In their own half. Highly doubt they'd score from there.

Why the heck will Litmanen, Bastian, Stoichkov, Cruyff, Gullit would be in my half? There is no press from Zidane, Figo or Ronaldo, so why exactly would they stay there?

 

[Moby]

I think I rate the both on par, not much between the two. Zidane's peak was higher but Iniesta contributes more to the midfield. Werent Spain 2008 pretty direct as well? Still a wonderful side btw just the last iteration felt a bit more natural and suited defensively.

Yeah they are pretty much par depending on what you want for the team.

Iniesta probably looked more natural alongside Suarez but Zidane is definitely a better provider for Cristiano. Both will be a lot closer in terms of synergy and that partnership being fruitful will turn this game.

 

[Moby]

Why the heck will Litmanen, Bastian, Stoichkov, Cruyff, Gullit would be in my half? There is no press from Zidane, Figo or Ronaldo, so why exactly would they stay there?

You are the one who has the idea that somehow Gullit Stoichkov are enjoying possession in my half. I haven't conceded possession in that area once in this thread.

 

[Jim Beam]

You are the one who has the idea that somehow Gullit Stoichkov are enjoying possession in my half. I haven't conceded possession in that area once in this thread.

But, you said you're giving me possession. I don't intend to use it my own half when 3 of your players will wait on the counter and won't do much defensive work.

So, you will rely on back 4 and 2 of your DM (one of which isn't really a DM) to stop them. It's practically an open invitation.

 

[Moby]

But, you said you're giving me possession.

Please read the posts again. I said I will not ask my forward line to waste their energy in pressing your players in your own half. I want them to be fresh and take the transitions on express pace.

So, you will rely on back 4 and 2 of your DM (one of which isn't really a DM) to stop them. It's practically an open invitation.

Will anyday have that as opposed to having Alves and Vasovic join the midfield (as per your instruction) leaving Kohler and Cole in 3v2 situation at the back, especially against the quality and skill of those attackers and the speed of transition of my team.

Clear as day which team has the easier route to goal.

 

[Moby]

Think we have made most of the points Jim. Will revisit this in a while. Good luck!

 

[Jim Beam]

Please read the posts again. I said I will not ask my forward line to waste their energy in pressing your players in your own half. I want them to be fresh and take the transitions on express pace.

Of course you won't because they never did waste much energy. It's not tactical instruction, it's just the way they are.

Will anyday have that as opposed to having Alves and Vasovic join the midfield (as per your instruction) leaving Kohler and Cole in 3v2 situation at the back, especially against the quality and skill of those attackers and the speed of transition of my team.

Clear as day which team has the easier route to goal.

Now you're twisting what I said. The fluidity of position applies to defense as much as offense. If Vasovic joins the midfield, Alves won't, if he goes further, Voronin will pull back a bit. There will never be in any scenario 3 vs 2 situations on the field.

 

[Jim Beam]

Think we have made most of the points Jim. Will revisit this in a while. Good luck!

Yeah, do agree. Same to you!

 

[Don Alfredo]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand all the talk about Gerets being great defensively? I always thought he was known as pretty attacking and not as some kind of defensive Great like Djalma or Lahm, who were imperious at 1v1 defending.

 

[Theon]

Am I the only one who doesn't understand all the talk about Gerets being great defensively? I always thought he was known as pretty attacking and not as some kind of defensive Great like Djalma or Lahm, who were imperious at 1v1 defending.

All of Moby’s players seem to be great at everything, judging by those ‘Gulf in Class’ posts!

 

[Physiocrat]

This is again a really tight match with little in quality overall between the sides. Still not sure which was it will go.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

It's definitely a well built attack, but so is the one on the other side. With far greater overall quality in the entire front 6. Players proven to deliver on the biggest of stages time and again.

That attack is also facing the far better defense of the two on show, while against Cruyff there is the incredible duo of Scirea and Bergomi (hardly gets better in terms of a stopper sweeper combo).

In midfield Suarez and Zidane provide far greater ability to unlock the defense as compared to the opposition and that is again that is incredibly crucial in deciding a big game.

All the absolutely critical factors tile heavily in my favour here, as much as one can try to convolute it.

Its definitely one of my favorites sides I've seen using CR7 but ultimately I just don't think that front three can do the damage in combinations as Cruyff-Stoichkov-Gullit.

And that Schweiny-Voronin-Litmanen midfield is also a greater than the sum of their parts combination imo. I like your defense better as a unit but I just can't see the Cruyff combos not gaining advantage

 

[Skizzo]

When I had Henry as my main striker in a decent draft, someone commented and raised a point that Henry wasn’t the biggest fan of playing with Zidane, as he sometimes lingered on the ball and didn’t release it as quickly as Henry would have liked.

With that in mind, swapping Iniesta for Zidane doesn’t lose much in terms of quality, but thought the former worked for the system better in terms of focusing on Ronaldo. Not that Zidane is ever a bad pick, mind.

 

[Isotope]

Picking out CRonaldo or Messi is a risky business, @Moby . You're losing out a set of fans there.

 

[Moby]

Picking out CRonaldo or Messi is a risky business, @Moby . You're losing out a set of fans there.

Yep that's a big factor.

 

[Don Alfredo]

Yep that's a big factor.

You are unlucky with Ronaldo vs Alves. I am far from the biggest Alves fan myself and have said multiple times that he is very reliant on the system around him. Beam‘s system however is tailor made for him and he had some decent showings vs Ronaldo as well.

 

[Moby]

You are unlucky with Ronaldo vs Alves. I am far from the biggest Alves fan myself and have said multiple times that he is very reliant on the system around him. Beam‘s system however is tailor made for him and he had some decent showings vs Ronaldo as well.

Those showings were based on Ronaldo playing in highly defensive line ups with the likes of Pepe in midfield and providing Ronaldo with hardly any service to work with.

There's no chance of restricting service for Ronaldo here, the entire team is absolutely brimming with creativity and this game will see Ronaldo probing across the entire backline with Seeler and Figo constantly dovetailing with him and finding himself wherever the easiest route to goal is, with the entire supporting cast playing him in with ease.

The difference between those games and this one is night and day and those duels hold literally no relevance here.

 

[MJJ]

Went for Moby in the end, think a superior defense and the front three should just edge the game.

 

[Himannv]

I somehow don't like the fullback upgrades that Jim Beam has made. Alvez isn't the best defensively and Cole is just so easy to dislike for some reason.

Will give this one to Moby.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Picking out CRonaldo or Messi is a risky business, @Moby . You're losing out a set of fans there.

dont see who voted but i dont think anyone apart cal? is following drafts

 

[Indnyc]

I somehow don't like the fullback upgrades that Jim Beam has made. Alvez isn't the best defensively and Cole is just so easy to dislike for some reason.

Will give this one to Moby.

I hated Cole.. Always had a good game against us.. Easily on the best left backs of the generation