A very good point, yeah. But scousers, you know!
The reshaping of the squad since EtH joined
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The funny thing is Rangnick wasn't too far off the mark, we did need about 10 players 
The funny thing is Rangnick wasn't too far off the mark, we did need about 10 players
Anyone could see that though. The problem with Rangnick is that he was shite. Uninspiring turd of an appointment
Ten Hag has got the balls though, hasn't he? He's identified the shite in the squad and they're actually being flushed away instead of popping back up the u-bend
This, right here. Ole and Jose had similar threads made for their rebuilds as well. Fans get excited in the moment and thing success is just round the corner from wherever they are at currently, but we will only know if we achieve success with this group or with ETH.
All managers (at ours or other clubs) come in and make a rebuild of some sort. Some replace older, less motivated players with younger more hungry ones, others fill up their teams with "winners" etc.
ETH deserves some credit for likely being a driving force behind this. But Arnold probably deserves a fair bit aswell for actually getting a fair amount of these deals over the line.
If Woodward was still around we would probably of signed De Gea up to another bumper contact and still have Ronaldo.
If Woodward was still around we would probably of signed De Gea up to another bumper contact and still have Ronaldo.
He was, but you'd be surprised, a lot of people here were saying there is no way we needed that many players.
I like what I’ve seen so far. Time to translate into success on the pitch!
We probably wouldn’t if teams around us (including those who were already better than us) didn’t keep signing players as well. ETH himself recently said we are doing not more or less than other teams in the league. But those other teams’ managers or whatever Ralf is/was supposed to be didn’t keep spouting the same shite Ralf did.
Of course he is. That's why we opted to go with Hojland and Greenwood rather than the whole lot on Kane.
The media will whine about why we didn’t go for Kane if we don’t start well or generally perform well this coming season, but feck it we used that money much more smartly to try and improve other areas of the squad.
And yeah how about you try negotiate a sensible price with Levy on behalf of United, pundits
And yeah how about you try negotiate a sensible price with Levy on behalf of United, pundits
The media will whine about why we didn’t go for Kane if we don’t start well or generally perform well this coming season, but feck it we used that money much more smartly to try and improve other areas of the squad.
And yeah how about you try negotiate a sensible price with Levy on behalf of United, pundits
Agreed, I hate the stupid narrative of "oh just go buy Kane" as if he's a fecking 12 pack of ale at the local supermarket with a price stuck on him. That's what the old United would have done, paying a world record fee for him with maybe one or two other mediocre signings and then wonder why we are getting pumped by Arsenal again as De Gea hoofs it out of bounds and we have two midfielders total in the squad.
People love to moan about Woodward but he gave a lot of posters here exactly what they (still) want every transfer window: spaffing almost the entire transfer budget on the most famous player available.
I think Arnold should take a huge credit. When Woodward was at the helm it seemed like he was content with following the whims of the manager and mostly disregarded the footballing/scouting side of things. As @Adnan has stated many times, Ole and Mourinho used to use their own personal scouts for instance instead of relying on the whole team. Under Arnold it seems like they (Arnold, Murtough, and Ten Hag) have formed a team and are working in harmony, which is exactly what is needed. There's no other big club around who indulged their managers like we did.
The big difference here however is, unlike under other managers our players actually improved as the season went on. For instance, I remember when Darmian came into the team he played very well and it looked like we had signed a great player. But, as the season went on he declined further and further, or similarly Schneiderlin who was the same. There are numerous other examples. Di Maria, Pogba, Mkhitaryan, Bailly, Lukaku, Maguire, AWB (improved last season though) etc.
The media will whine about why we didn’t go for Kane if we don’t start well or generally perform well this coming season, but feck it we used that money much more smartly to try and improve other areas of the squad.
And yeah how about you try negotiate a sensible price with Levy on behalf of United, pundits
They are going to make out the price for Bayern is what we could’ve paid. It’s going to be £100m and we’d have had to pay £120-130 I would guess.
It’s been a massive gripe of mine how, in the years post Fergie, our players always became worse the longer they played for us (for the most part).
But that’s by the by. In terms of this discussion, not necessarily convinced it was because Woodward followed the whims of the manager. I think for someone without the football background like Woodward, you are always looking transfers with more lenses than pure footballing guys. The big thing for me that’s changed now is that we have a group of people, who not only care about the now but also the 10 years from now, who not only care about who the current manager is but what the longer term strategy is, and who not necessarily weighing the commercial element and “marqueeness” of the signing as heavily.
Greenwood coming back is proper grim.
Ignoring all the things you shouldn't really ignore when discussing his future, he's not played for 18 months and will come back to a huge amount of media attention and backlash. Even if he stays, I can't see him having any involvement until January.
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It feels a lot more clinical especially this summer where it’s clear sentimentality is not going to get in the way of necessary decision making.
We’ve torn up the first phase of build up players completely for starters!
We’ve torn up the first phase of build up players completely for starters!
Judging by the video he will need at least 6 months to get his match fitness & sharpness back.
Hope he's utter shite and is given away in January
Agreed.
ETH only “fault” was taking in WW, albeit it was temporary and he did help us win a cup.
I don't blame Woodward for the players declining at United. I blame him for his overindulgence of the managers we have had. When you indulge the manager like we did there will never be a long term strategy as you are always going to be buying for the here and now. To me his biggest failings were his bending to the whims of the manager and his managerial selection. I never really bought into the idea that Woodward was going out buying players on his own whims.
The reason why players were declining at United unlike under Ten Hag is due to two factors in my opinion. The mentalities of the players who we signed were, for the most part, questionable at best. Once you add in the less than stellar coaching/management team players are going to decline. This all appears to be remedied today, with Ten Hag being a fantastic manager with a great coaching team, also with the scouting team actually being involved there's far more opportunity to form an opinion on whether a player has the mentality to be at a club like United. We now have a functioning football department.
He's done a good job of clearing the deadwood and putting us in a position where most of the starting XI is now at a pretty good standard. It feels like the first phase of the rebuild is close to being completed and Ten Hag has navigated the Ronaldo, De Gea and Maguire situations really well.
If we manage to get rid of a couple more players before the window is out - Henderson and McTominay being the main ones who can command good fees - and sign a couple more like Pavard and Amrabat, it'll be the best place this squad has been in for about a decade. I still think we'd be a few more players off seriously challenging City, but if we continue this progress and push hard for someone like Kane next summer, it'd be the first time in years that I'd believe we have half a chance.
If we manage to get rid of a couple more players before the window is out - Henderson and McTominay being the main ones who can command good fees - and sign a couple more like Pavard and Amrabat, it'll be the best place this squad has been in for about a decade. I still think we'd be a few more players off seriously challenging City, but if we continue this progress and push hard for someone like Kane next summer, it'd be the first time in years that I'd believe we have half a chance.
I dont think you understand how organisations and org structures work.
I think it partly comes from the credibility the manager garnered . He gave the impression he had a measure of control as soon as he walked through the door. It gives confidence to upper management when you see that. I think he'd planned things for months in advance of that first window which would have sent the right message for investment.
I think there was also a natural crossover point of Woodward leaving and Murtough and Arnold wanting to make their mark. ETH has a bit of fortune here compared to previous managers because if he'd have been under the old execs it would have made life trickier. They may have fought some battles in the boardroom to hurry up some of our decision making in the market allowing us to be more efficient. I think Woodward was rather stuck in a rut and was hoping for things to resolve themselves and the manager to bail him out rather than doing anything different. Every summer was like groundhog day where we saw the same patterns of mistakes repeat themselves.
So its a bit of both ultimately. A credible manager and likely better leadership in key positions. Not to give Arnold and Murtough untold credit at this point, but simply to acknowledge that there does seem to be a difference.
I think there was also a natural crossover point of Woodward leaving and Murtough and Arnold wanting to make their mark. ETH has a bit of fortune here compared to previous managers because if he'd have been under the old execs it would have made life trickier. They may have fought some battles in the boardroom to hurry up some of our decision making in the market allowing us to be more efficient. I think Woodward was rather stuck in a rut and was hoping for things to resolve themselves and the manager to bail him out rather than doing anything different. Every summer was like groundhog day where we saw the same patterns of mistakes repeat themselves.
So its a bit of both ultimately. A credible manager and likely better leadership in key positions. Not to give Arnold and Murtough untold credit at this point, but simply to acknowledge that there does seem to be a difference.
The funny thing is Rangnick wasn't too far off the mark, we did need about 10 players
Oh please, let's not get there. I know I should ignore this shit by now but ragnick was a tool of the first order. I can also sit here and say that climate change will destroy the world. It does not make me a genius of any sort.
On the squad, it's incredible what we have done and the credit has to go beyond ETH too, the larger pool of executives involved have been good.
If all planned transfers go through, then we would have let go all deadwood within one year (except martial). Take into account the situations the club has dealt with in terms of Ronaldo and greenwood and it's quite an incredible year.
The driving force behind United's disjointed transfer policy was Ed Woodward, whose sole criteria for hiring managers and acquiring first team players was marketing. The players acquired since EtH arrived fit into a coherent tactical philosophy and even if he crashes and burns this season there's nothing stopping the club from hiring a new manager who won't require another complete squad teardown.
The funny thing is Rangnick wasn't too far off the mark, we did need about 10 players
Yeah but publicly stating that about a group of people working for him directly was very stupid and probably a big part of the reason all the players tuned him out completely by the end of the season.
Inform me then. If I am so wrong and you are correct. And don't come out with the whole "it's not my job" or "google it". If you say something have the balls to stand by it.
The top of the pyramid is the CEO. Buck stops with him --- and he sets the policy, resources and strategy etc and co-develops the org chart's roles & responsibilities for over 1000 employees.
Meantime he has financial and operation targets (football and non-football activities) to meet set by the BOM or owners.
Those below him will have targets, resource constraints and parameters to work within and execute.
It doesn't take a lot to identify the crap but it takes a lot of effort to find good players to replace them with, in a budget. For me, that's an even greater achievement few managers can accomplish in this short a period.
Fans boo Maguire for breathing, so I can only imagine what they'll do when Greenwood's on the pitch.
Not to be a party puffer i love erik as much as the next united fan who is not a member of class of 1958 but didnt all of our permanent managers post fergie reshape the squad? pretty easy to notice since we kept changing styles
Sure. The good point was that time often needs to pass before you can really judge the success of a transfer, and that things usually look good at the stage in the cycle we're at right now. Not that I think there's much chance of signings like Casemiro or Martinez looking any worse five years from now. Also I agree with your point about signings being linked to a coherent philosophy, which is really making the recruitment under Ole and Woodward look quite shabby by comparison.
Good post.
In terms of wage reduction, I think Ronaldo was an outlier in world football and ddg was simply at the end of his prime. It is more a function of the club trying to attract big players without any on pitch success for ten years. ETH has moved to signing younger players so much higher fees but lower wages. Unclear if it will pay off yet as our finish last year was consistent with prior years bar Ralf experiment. Hopefully we are dramatically improved this year though.
Disagree. Woodward was a disaster - great at bringing in money, useless at transfers, getting the right players/deals. An absolute stain on our club
Also for a former investment banker he was absolutely horrible in negotiating and closing deals. Shouting to everyone that you have a ton of money didnt help either. Other clubs saw us as a cash cow waiting to be milked dry. Random people working in a market has better bargaining and haggling skills compared to him.