These 5, 6 teams does it include Arsenal, Leicester or Spurs? Maybe at the Europa cup level. At the CL level they are getting spanked
The relative strength of the Premier League
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One. If we're talking about spending power, it's not really a debate, the EPL blows every other league out of the water easily. However, I think you'll find Richarlison levels of quality outside of Bayern, Dortmund and Leipzig in the Bundesliga, too. And definitely in the Serie A and La Liga. Thing is, you don't watch these clubs play regularly just like we don't watch Everton or Astin Villa or something like that so you're more likely to oversee them.
that’s one of many many examples. Anyway, I think the PL is far more competitive than the likes of Germany.
In the last decade how many times have Bayern not won the league? Compared to the PL where United, City, Leicester, Liverpool, Chelsea have all won it.
I’m not going to get into a long running discussion about it, if we disagree.
But we are not talking about the elite, are we? We're talking about Everton, Leicester and the likes. Clubs who have significantly more spending power than their Bundesliga equivalents, perhaps even more spending power than all Bundesliga club bar Bayern and Dortmund, but IMO they're not better than their counterparts in other leagues. Just because they spill more money doesn't mean they have higher individual quality. And I'm not necessarily talking about Germany alone. Even more so, Spanish and Italian second tier clubs where players like Luis Alberto, Alejandro Gomez, Luis Muriel etc. reside, at times for the majority of their careers.
No Bayern player won the Ballon D'or! ususally the best team has the Ballon D'or. As I said, overrated.
Really? You'll find players with 30 caps for Brazil at age 23 or players the quality of James outside of the Bayern or Dortmund, who exactly?
weve gone off point... I mentioned that that were lots of clubs that could afford a £30-50m signing. I used Everton as an example, but the PL has United, City, Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool and Chelsea - I don’t see any other league being close to this cohort.
furthermore the likes of Palace and Villa can reject significant bids for players these days.
There is significant strength in depth, and the quality goes very deep down the league.
If you look back, I never said that were better. I made that point, that the league was far more competitive - and that that didn’t translate into success in Europe. One of the obvious reasons is that talent and resources are spread out amongst clubs, rather than concentrated into one or two clubs, which is the case in most leagues.
you have a handful of clubs that have dominated for a decade domestically, Juventus, Bayern, PSG. That’s not competitive. I’ve never said that Means PL sides are better than them.
Someone should let Basaksehir and Leipzig know they can't be competitive with PL clubs, because they don't spend 50m on Richarlison.
No Bayern player won it because they didnt gave one...every man and his dog knows if the Ballon D'Or was delivered it would have been for Lewandowski.
They're getting spanked by teams like Bayern and PSG (who just destroyed Barcelona) but do you honestly think that those three teams (who United earned only 1 point against out of a possible 9...) cant hang with the vast majority of CL teams? Teams like Salzberg, Lokomotiv Moscow, Monchengladbach, Shakthtar, Olympiakos, Marsaille, Midtgytland, Atalanta, Krasnodar, Porto, Sevilla, Rennes, Lazio, Brugge, Zenit, Ferencvaros, Kiev, or Istanbul? You think all of those CL teams are going to spank Arsenal, Leicester, and Spurs? I just don't see it.
This thread is about the relative strength of the Premier League--- And with the maximum of four allocations from our league, we still have another three or four teams that finished outside of qualification spots that could realistically compete with the majority of the CL teams. That is what highlights the strength of the league in my opinion.
Decades ago it was United, Chelsea, Arsenal, and Liverpool and then a huge gulf between the top four and the rest of the league. It's a much more competitive league from top to bottom now and there are more teams in the league with top players. The seventh place squads of Germany, or Spain, or France, aren't equal to those of England.
Why do you constantly misrepresent arguments in such a manner? Everton have better players and will hold onto more of their players than Basaksehir. That is obvious.
Sorry if I misrepresented the old "I'm comparing player names with other players I have never watched" argument.
Rather convenient excuse
Haha what? Lewandowski won the Fifa all Pro award, which is basically the Balon D'or given by fifa. But yeah I guess Bayern winning everything isnt proof enough, they must have a player which won the Balon D'or otherwise theyre overrated. Nice logic.
you clearly misunderstand the use of competitive in this context.
go back and read through.
He's trolling you. Don't waste your time.
Meh. There was a short period of time that the PL was the best in Europe. The Fergie-Jose-Benitez seasons.
The PL is entertaining but it’s littered with errors and doesn’t have as many good footballers.
I think a joint league of La Liga and the PL would see 10-14 PL teams in the bottom 15 spots.
You never know these days.
disagree with this a lot. The bottom ten in epl aren’t much better than the bottom ten in other leagues. We had Lyon knock out man city only last year. I think city are still the better team but there are some woeful teams in the bottom ten of the epl. As there are in all leagues. There difference isn’t very much.
no.
Point gap in prem 18/19 1st to 20th was 82 points. In la liga it was 55. 19/20 in prem it was 78 points. In la liga it was 62. Man city alone had more in league wins by 4+ goals than Barca, atleti, and real combined last season.
Just like that overrated Liverpool did not have a Ballon dor
When you said 5 to 6 teams who can challenge anyone in Europe, I don't see how Arsenal Leicester and Spurs fit this
Anyone includes anyone right? Even the likes of Bayern PSG Madrid Juventus
The top teams in Europe won't break a sweat vs Arsenal Leicester Spurs or lets say the top teams will be overwhelming favourites e.g Bayern will be 70% favorites to go through in a 2 legged tie vs Arsenal Leicester or Spurs
They can be competitive vs the tier below the elite. The teams that usually play in the Europa like Sevilla, Mochengladbach Atalanta
I find arguments like this so strange to be honest. And the team which currently sits top of la liga just lost 1-0 to the team in 5th in the premier league.
I mean, what point do they think it actually shows?
Lyon sitting 10th in Ligue 1 beat Man city last season
Atletico was sitting 6th in la liga last season when they beat Liverpool home and away including at a packed Anfield
Chelsea vs Atletico could have been 4th place Sevilla beating 1st place City in a one off game played in Romania
Taking isolated games to make points like this will always be strange
Well exactly. It works both ways of course. Its such a silly line of argument.
Well we have to connect the dots and come up with lower league team is better than CL winning team.
That's why I always advocate for the coefficients as the best measure. It eliminates those facile kinds of arguments that could go on forever. Individual results can give a lot of noise, the coefficients will give you a lot more signal.
That's why i reacted with posting that tweet, every time there's a stat that's makes the PL look good (like as you say us beating Leti) the "PL's amazing and everything else is a farmer's league" crew are unbearable but when something happens that really doesn't put the 'wonderful' PL in such a good light (like the 3rd place team losing at home to a side in a minor league) all of a sudden there's either silence or some excuse like "it's only one game" is trotted out.
My personal opinion is the PL is overrated to almost cringy levels, when there's outstanding teams they make it look easy and chalk up 90-100 points and when there isn't a manager who never won a title in 17 years in Italy, 4 years in Spain and 3 years in France wins it with a 5000/1 shot, the so called farmers league's get laughed at for a lot less.
I don't really follow. When Monaco won the league against the might of PSG, nobody laughed or mocked the league for that but thought it was amazing.
The PL is overrated to some degree but the reality is it is always one of the top 3 leagues in the world at worst and has some of the best and most famous teams. The coefficients from the past 5 years seem to suggest it is at least as good as la liga, as @Classical Mechanic has pointed out in that time frame. Anyone who genuinely thinks it was as good as la liga when Real and Barcelona were dominating it and had Ronaldo and Messi at their peaks is probably a bit dim. Then again, most football fans aren't exactly known for their well reasoned and objective arguments.
Probably the reason some people struggle to stomach some of the other leagues is the total dominance put over them by one club, as has been the case for almost a decade now in Germany, Italy and France.
For reference, that person seems to support an Italian team and live in Italy.
The league is great though. If Leicester result shows up England then that is nothing in comparison to what the other major leagues came up with this last week. Its an exception to the rule in many ways.
What about last years runaway Champions being dumped out by a watered down Leti? Or 2nd place losing to 10th in France? Or the FA Cup winners being trolled at home by Olympiakos?
There's just as many examples that make the PL look bad to one's what make it look good.
Yep, those defending CL champions losing last year. Disgraceful!
The problem with that argument is nobody said English clubs are unbeatable. Theyre just at a higher standard than other leagues.
Everything you can post about England (theres a reason why you have to go back so far to get examples, lets be honest) is much worse in other major leagues. Why not go back 2 seasons? Does that not tie into your point?
The PL will top the 5 year coefficients at the end of the season when it's very poor season 5 years ago is taken off the rankings. The 2018/19 season from the PL was very dominant, although not as dominants as the 15/16 from Spain which was crazy. I think no Spanish side lost a game that wasn't against another Spanish side!
"So far back" well i've already given an example for this year but as you wish here's another one, the 2nd placed team in the prem dumped out of the group stage largely thanks to losing to the 18th place Turkish League team.
The point I'm making mainly is the PL is put on a pedestal it doesn't warrant. Many players have come to this league and done better than they did in supposedly interior league's.
I would like to see a sheffield united vs schalke 04 match
No you wouldn't. The only point that this would prove is that bad teams playing each other guarantees that you will never want to watch football ever again after enduring that...
I would say that Spurs, Leicester, or Arsenal have as good of a chance against Bayern/PSG as United, Barcelona, or Chelsea does against them... That doesn’t mean they can’t compete at the same level though. I think you’re missing my point. While those teams listed aren’t going to lift the cup over the very top clubs in the world, no other league has as much quality down the table as England does.
I've been of the idea that English football could benefit of exporting more players and managers as well. Not that it isn't a top league but the years of dominance of Spain in european competition it felt the english teams were not quite there in terms of tactics. Currently I think the league has gotten stronger since the arrival of Guardiola and Klopp and even if the top spanish teams are in decline I think our league still produces quite a few good players. So while teams in other european leagues don't have as much money as english teams I think they can still make up for it, to certain degree, by producing their own players and exporting them to richer teams.