The RedCafe Boxing Thread

VorZakone said:
Surely Fury is just too big for Usyk?
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If Fury doesn’t knock him out – and he’s not the biggest puncher after all, then probably not.

For me it feels like the sort of fight that is almost won in the training camps. If Fury come in heavy and tries to bully him, then Usyk has a clear path to victory using his superior movement to outpoint him. If Fury also aims to use his footwork and movement in the ring, that could take Usyk’s edge away. It could be an incredible fight.
 
There's too many question marks with Tyson. Not many question marks with Usyk. My money is on Oleksandr
 
Gringo said:
There's too many question marks with Tyson. Not many question marks with Usyk. My money is on Oleksandr
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There’s a big question mark around Usyk as well, namely that he has to fight AJ again. Joshua will improve in fight 2, just as he did against Ruiz. As we’ve seen in the trajectories of Wilder and AJ in recent years, there are no guarantees that Fury and Usyk will ever fight.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Not really true though and it’s a stupid attitude that prevents education.
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It is true. If a grown man is racist, they’re racist and should be criticised for being so. Let’s not try and explain it away, that’s pathetic behaviour.
 
Raoul said:
There’s a big question mark around Usyk as well, namely that he has to fight AJ again. Joshua will improve in fight 2, just as he did against Ruiz. As we’ve seen in the trajectories of Wilder and AJ in recent years, there are no guarantees that Fury and Usyk will ever fight.
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And that's why it's all shit.... no one fights anyone at optimal time, maybe at a push Canelo-GGG in the last, what, 10-15 years? And that's why, if you ignore judging and the result.... those are 2 absolute all time classics, forget best of the modern era. I don't what the likes of The Rock is smoking thinking last night was anywhere close. Fury battered him.
 
ivaldo said:
Just one of those nice, genuine guys that thinks homosexuals will burn in hell and women belong in the kitchen, who accuses other boxers of being drug cheats while having previously taken nandrolone, and stated on record he would hang his sister if he discovered she was 'promiscuous.' Then there were his comments on Jews and comparing transgenderism to beastiality. And what of the mysterious charity donation he refuses to comment on? But other than that, nice guy.
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Im sure he’s made a lot of comments he regrets, he’s had some really awful mental health issues.
 
Raoul said:
There’s a big question mark around Usyk as well, namely that he has to fight AJ again. Joshua will improve in fight 2, just as he did against Ruiz. As we’ve seen in the trajectories of Wilder and AJ in recent years, there are no guarantees that Fury and Usyk will ever fight.
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Joshua improved but Ruiz came in worse. Uysk won't do that. But he will have to face a different version of AJ I'm sure, so I am still wary about the rematch. But on paper and on the eye test. Uysk is too smart, too much output, too much movement, adjusts too well, got the better gas tank.
 
NasirTimothy said:
It is true. If a grown man is racist, they’re racist and should be criticised for being so. Let’s not try and explain it away, that’s pathetic behaviour.
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Look it's a different debate. I'm not saying you shouldn't criticize someone for saying something wrong/stupid but equally immediately vilifying everyone for one-off statements (not saying that's the case here) is a dangerous game and really just serves to polarise people against just causes. If someone grows up in a racist household then they don't get the benefit of a good education so it's only natural that they should be allowed more chances when growing up. Anyway, it's not really the right thread for it and to be honest, Fury probably hasn't learnt much due to his almost fanatic religious views.
 
Zen said:
And that's why it's all shit.... no one fights anyone at optimal time, maybe at a push Canelo-GGG in the last, what, 10-15 years? And that's why, if you ignore judging and the result.... those are 2 absolute all time classics, forget best of the modern era. I don't what the likes of The Rock is smoking thinking last night was anywhere close. Fury battered him.
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Not sure that is a fair comment in the heavyweight decision since Klitschko vs Fury ignited it in 2015. The last six years have seen a lot of the objectively best heavies fight each other. We were going to get Joshua v Fury until Fury was, quite rightly, legally obliged to give a promised rematch to Wilder. Even then we got Joshua v Usyk and Fury v Wilder III instead.

The only top guy in recent years who has shown less willingness to fight the best is Wilder, who was happy beating lesser opponents in isolation from the rest of the division, until his plan to beat a seemingly washed up Fury blew up in his face. He’s surely now at a point where he takes the big fights or disappears too.
 
fergieisold said:
Im sure he’s made a lot of comments he regrets, he’s had some really awful mental health issues.
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And why are you sure of that? Because of all the work he's done to make amends, or how he's used his platform to educate his fans? Hmmm...
 
Tarrou said:
imagine if Fury got ripped, he'd be absolutely unstoppable
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You might think that. But it is counterintuitive because muscle tissue burns calories at a much higher rate than fat tissue for example.
And it is quite a bit heavier.
You need the weight to be able to 'lean on' the other boxer, but be as efficient cardiovascular wise.
 
Raoul said:
He wouldn’t, because the extra muscle would come at the expense of cardio, which is a premium commodity in boxing.
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Getting ripped wouldn't be extra muscle though would it? His muscle is already under his flab. Getting ripped isn't putting on muscle, it's ripping off fat. It wouldn't make him unstoppable though cause then he'd be about 5 stone lighter :lol:
 
Summit said:
Getting ripped wouldn't be extra muscle though would it? His muscle is already under his flab. Getting ripped isn't putting on muscle, it's ripping off fat. It wouldn't make him unstoppable though cause then he'd be about 5 stone lighter :lol:
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If it was to his advantage, his camp would’ve done it long ago. He relies on his size for obvious reasons. Wilder also made a mistake of lifting weights too much going into this fight I thought (as mentioned by Lennox last night).
 
I'm not a huge boxing guy but from the fights I've seen from these 4 gentlemen, my rank would be along the lines of:

Fury
Usyk
Wilder
AJ

Is that fair or am I an idiot? (Could be both!)
 
Dirty Schwein said:
I'm not a huge boxing guy but from the fights I've seen from these 4 gentlemen, my rank would be along the lines of:

Fury
Usyk
Wilder
AJ

Is that fair or am I an idiot? (Could be both!)
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Wilder should be fecking nowhere near that.

Fury
Usyk
AJ
Whyte

I’m not convinced I’d even stick Wilder next, the only two fighters of any worth he’s fought are Ortiz (meh) and he’s been schooled 3 times by Fury and knocked out twice by his pillow hands, such a poor boxer he is. Usyk, AJ and even Whyte have better CV’s.

Considering that outrageous chin on Ruiz, I’d put money on him wiping out Wilder.
 
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Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Wilder should be fecking nowhere near that.

Fury
Usyk
AJ
Whyte

I’m not convinced I’d even stick Wilder next, the only two fighters of any worth he’s fought are Ortiz (meh) and he’s been schooled 3 times by Fury and knocked out twice by his pillow hands, such a poor boxer he is. Usyk, AJ and even Whyte have better CV’s.

Considering that outrageous chin on Ruiz, I’d put money on him wiping out Wilder.
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Not so sure i'd back wilder to beat AJ 9 times out of 10
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Wilder should be fecking nowhere near that.

Fury
Usyk
AJ
Whyte

I’m not convinced I’d even stick Wilder next, the only two fighters of any worth he’s fought are Ortiz (meh) and he’s been schooled 3 times by Fury and knocked out twice by his pillow hands, such a poor boxer he is. Usyk, AJ and even Whyte have better CV’s.

Considering that outrageous chin on Ruiz, I’d put money on him wiping out Wilder.
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Yeah, the sudden Wilder love is weird. He just got outboxed in his last 4 fights. You can almost count the rounds he won in 1 hand over that period as well.
Now other HWs with knockout power will push Wilder on his back foot and take advantage of the openings Wilder gave to Tyson.
 
cyberman said:
Yeah, the sudden Wilder love is weird. He just got outboxed in his last 4 fights. You can almost count the rounds he won in 1 hand over that period as well.
Now other HWs with knockout power will push Wilder on his back foot and take advantage of the openings Wilder gave to Tyson.
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Wilder was getting pushed back by the best heavyweight in the world who also happens to weigh 275lbs and has excellent footwork. It won’t be so easy for other heavyweights
 
Raoul said:
If it was to his advantage, his camp would’ve done it long ago. He relies on his size for obvious reasons. Wilder also made a mistake of lifting weights too much going into this fight I thought (as mentioned by Lennox last night).
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I was talking about fury, not wilder. You said the extra muscle would hinder fury if he ripped fat. I sat what extra muscle? You don't gain muscle during a cut, you'll know that as much as me.
 
cyberman said:
Yeah, the sudden Wilder love is weird. He just got outboxed in his last 4 fights. You can almost count the rounds he won in 1 hand over that period as well.
Now other HWs with knockout power will push Wilder on his back foot and take advantage of the openings Wilder gave to Tyson.
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Like I said, I'm no big fan of boxing but he lost to the best HW in boxing right now, I doubt many can do what Fury does plus don't have that same size advantage.

Everyone here always says Wilder is useless and now everyone will follow Fury gamelan... I'm sure these professional boxers and their teams already know what us posters here know, yet get KO by Wilder.

There are, I'm sure, many facets to boxing but having KO power must be one of the best tools, which is why Wilder got this far (regardless of competition)?

In UFC, Ngannou got to a HW title shot, and beat many top talents along the way due to one punch KO power, then faced a massive obstacle in Stipe wrestling... He had to learn more about TDD, which he did to win the second fight against Stipe.

AJ from what I've seen hasn't got the best chin, and seems to not like getting hit. That could easily affect his game plan against a guy who can KO most people with one shot... So is it that far-fetched to think Wilder can beat AJ?
 
Summit said:
I was talking about fury, not wilder. You said the extra muscle would hinder fury if he ripped fat. I sat what extra muscle? You don't gain muscle during a cut, you'll know that as much as me.
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Why would he do that though, when he has an obvious size advantage in his present form. As long as he has the cardio to match his size, he wouldn't be incentivized to change anything.
 
Raoul said:
Why would he do that though, when he has an obvious size advantage in his present form. As long as he has the cardio to match his size, he wouldn't be incentivized to change anything.
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Christ, I'm not saying he would. I was replying to your reason about him having too much muscle if he did. :lol:
 
Futy vs Whyte and assuming fury comes through that we should in theory then get a unification fight with the winner of Uysk vs aj

After that I think fury might retire as unified champion... (presumably all the belts would get split again)... fury will probabky pop up in the wwe or go on a massive bender for a couple of years before popping up on YouTube to smash jake paul
 
sun_tzu said:
Futy vs Whyte and assuming fury comes through that we should in theory then get a unification fight with the winner of Uysk vs aj

After that I think fury might retire as unified champion... (presumably all the belts would get split again)... fury will probabky pop up in the wwe or go on a massive bender for a couple of years before popping up on YouTube to smash jake paul
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That sounds quite feasible in all honesty.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Like I said, I'm no big fan of boxing but he lost to the best HW in boxing right now, I doubt many can do what Fury does plus don't have that same size advantage.

Everyone here always says Wilder is useless and now everyone will follow Fury gamelan... I'm sure these professional boxers and their teams already know what us posters here know, yet get KO by Wilder.

There are, I'm sure, many facets to boxing but having KO power must be one of the best tools, which is why Wilder got this far (regardless of competition)?

In UFC, Ngannou got to a HW title shot, and beat many top talents along the way due to one punch KO power, then faced a massive obstacle in Stipe wrestling... He had to learn more about TDD, which he did to win the second fight against Stipe.

AJ from what I've seen hasn't got the best chin, and seems to not like getting hit. That could easily affect his game plan against a guy who can KO most people with one shot... So is it that far-fetched to think Wilder can beat AJ?
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Fury didn’t even know how to adjust to Wilder until the last round of his first fight. It’s a cliche now but maybe nobody could do It is because he was fighting nobodies up until Ortiz who out boxed Wilder every bit as good as Tyson did until she caught up with him in the home stretch?
Let’s not forget that this isn’t Fury’s style. I’ll bet any money he won’t swarm opponents like this in the future since other top HWs can box from the back foot.
 
Kazi said:
Wilder was getting pushed back by the best heavyweight in the world who also happens to weigh 275lbs and has excellent footwork. It won’t be so easy for other heavyweights
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He also got beaten up by Ortiz, and would've lost, if Ortiz didn't have the stamina of a 90- year-old heavy smoker.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Everyone here always says Wilder is useless and now everyone will follow Fury gamelan... I'm sure these professional boxers and their teams already know what us posters here know, yet get KO by Wilder.
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Who’s he fought that’s even in the top 10? Yup, one fighter and got absolutely battered each time, knocked out twice by pillow hands.

This isn’t new information on Wilder, many have called it for years, the second he steps in with real quality he has a puncher’s chance and nothing more, he’ll be utterly schooled. Now we’ve been proven correct three times against the only top boxer he’s faced, and plenty are confident the same will happen if he steps in vs. AJ, Usyk, Whyte.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
Like I said, I'm no big fan of boxing but he lost to the best HW in boxing right now, I doubt many can do what Fury does plus don't have that same size advantage.

Everyone here always says Wilder is useless and now everyone will follow Fury gamelan... I'm sure these professional boxers and their teams already know what us posters here know, yet get KO by Wilder.

There are, I'm sure, many facets to boxing but having KO power must be one of the best tools, which is why Wilder got this far (regardless of competition)?

In UFC, Ngannou got to a HW title shot, and beat many top talents along the way due to one punch KO power, then faced a massive obstacle in Stipe wrestling... He had to learn more about TDD, which he did to win the second fight against Stipe.

AJ from what I've seen hasn't got the best chin, and seems to not like getting hit. That could easily affect his game plan against a guy who can KO most people with one shot... So is it that far-fetched to think Wilder can beat AJ?
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Which boxers are these? Despite having 45 fights on his record he's only ever fought 3 boxers in the top 10. Prior to fighting Fury he could barely got 5k people to turn up to his fights. Most Americans wouldn't have even been able to tell you who he was. There was a reason for that. He was considered a bit of a joke before he fought Fury.

AJ punches almost as hard as Wilder and is a markedly better boxer. Wilder will always have that knockout power, but he's never going to be favoured against AJ.
 
sun_tzu said:
Futy vs Whyte and assuming fury comes through that we should in theory then get a unification fight with the winner of Uysk vs aj

After that I think fury might retire as unified champion... (presumably all the belts would get split again)... fury will probabky pop up in the wwe or go on a massive bender for a couple of years before popping up on YouTube to smash jake paul
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Yeah that seems very plausible. He seems the type, great talker, loves a costume and a bit of pantomime
 
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