The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Bored shitless at home but enjoyed watching Tyson/Holyfield 1 and 2

Great stream as well.



 
MalcolmTucker said:
They're all on PEDs.

If doping was endemic in a sport as inconsequential as bicycling, you can be sure that in a sport as lucrative and dangerous as boxing then it certainly will be.
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You're spot on here. Boxing is now like cycling was (and maybe still is) in that you've little to no chance of being successful if you don't juice as you know everyone else is, especially in the heavyweight division. And its also the reason why most top level boxers need a 12 week training camp nowadays. Its so they can start their cycle prior to the camp and then continue it a few weeks in, dropping of it in just enough time to avoid a detection from the testers but still have enough benefits from it on fight night.

More and more its becoming common practise for a champion to fight just twice a year. Contenders can sometimes squeeze in 3 fights a year as they don't need to be at absolute beast level to beat secondary level fighters such as Price, Wallin, Schwarz, Szpilka, Arreola, Browne etc. etc.

Great example is Jarrel Miller - 300lbs plus heavyweight who oftend threw more punches per round than your average lightweight. Gets caught out by a drug test showing traces of GW501516 and immediately comes out denying any involvement with drugs and claiming its a false reading. Further tests reveal high levels of EPO and HGH and Miller then all but comes clean and admits he "messed up" and "made a bad call". Fast forward 18 months and he's now under the top rank banner and trying to convince people that he never knowingly took drugs.

Kownacki is another hugely suspect fighter - he's basically the definition of obese but his punch output is phenomenal (even by lighter weight standards) and he's also a close friend of Miller. He got beat a couple of weeks ago in what could be called a big upset (thankfully) so its back to the drawing board for him. I guess his face first defence eventually caught up with him and then ventured into The Verve territory where "The drugs don"t work they just make you worse"

And don't even get me started on VADA....the most corrupt and fake drug testing organisation in the history of sports.
 
Port Vale Devil said:
Bored shitless at home but enjoyed watching Tyson/Holyfield 1 and 2

Great stream as well.



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I’m going to go through Holyfield’s career set in the next week or two since I’ll be home so much.

I did watch one of my all-time favorite heavyweight fights the other day - Bowe vs. Golota II. Had some friends over and we watched some old fights and I put this one on. People had forgotten how crazy it was.
 
jimmyb2000 said:
You're spot on here. Boxing is now like cycling was (and maybe still is) in that you've little to no chance of being successful if you don't juice as you know everyone else is, especially in the heavyweight division. And its also the reason why most top level boxers need a 12 week training camp nowadays. Its so they can start their cycle prior to the camp and then continue it a few weeks in, dropping of it in just enough time to avoid a detection from the testers but still have enough benefits from it on fight night.

More and more its becoming common practise for a champion to fight just twice a year. Contenders can sometimes squeeze in 3 fights a year as they don't need to be at absolute beast level to beat secondary level fighters such as Price, Wallin, Schwarz, Szpilka, Arreola, Browne etc. etc.

Great example is Jarrel Miller - 300lbs plus heavyweight who oftend threw more punches per round than your average lightweight. Gets caught out by a drug test showing traces of GW501516 and immediately comes out denying any involvement with drugs and claiming its a false reading. Further tests reveal high levels of EPO and HGH and Miller then all but comes clean and admits he "messed up" and "made a bad call". Fast forward 18 months and he's now under the top rank banner and trying to convince people that he never knowingly took drugs.

Kownacki is another hugely suspect fighter - he's basically the definition of obese but his punch output is phenomenal (even by lighter weight standards) and he's also a close friend of Miller. He got beat a couple of weeks ago in what could be called a big upset (thankfully) so its back to the drawing board for him. I guess his face first defence eventually caught up with him and then ventured into The Verve territory where "The drugs don"t work they just make you worse"

And don't even get me started on VADA....the most corrupt and fake drug testing organisation in the history of sports.
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Spot on with the cycling. Mayweather used to be in training, you’d know his opponent but they laid off announcing the fight until as late as possible so he could cycle. Canelo has started to do the same. He messed up with the GGG one of course but not fooling anyone by “passing” their tests.
 
Spending more time in doors now so got a bit more time to read books, watch old fights. I had never read "The 16th round", which was written by Rubin "Hurricane" Carter about 7 years into his imprisonment. Incredible book. I've seen the movie, read the book by James Hirsch etc; but this autobio his penned was incredible. Very smart guy, great story teller, great descriptions and a grim and sad story at times. Highly recommended for anyone (not just boxing fans) to read. One of the best books I ever read. So good I decided to get the second autobiographical book he released about 20 years after his release and the book Lazarus and The Hurricane, which of course was part of the story from the movie.

Another gem was Tony Zale: The Man of Steel written by Tony's nephew Thad and (mainly), Clay Moyle. One of my favorite historians and the owner of the worlds biggest boxing book collection. Fantastic story on a great fighter and even better man. Whilst waiting on these other books to arrive I've decided to revisit one of my all-time favorite books in Rocky Graziano's "Somebody up there likes me", which of course was later a movie starring Paul Newman in his breakout role. This book is harder to find these days but if you need a copy I think I can probably help point you in the way of it at a cheaper price than the astronomical one's you see on amazon and abebooks.
 
Here's a bunch of fights well worth checking out. Most (probably all) are on YouTube. A good mix, from heavyweight slugfests down to some flyweight wars. Technical firefights and outright slugfests.

Aaron Pryor-Alexis Arguello I
Danny Lopez-Mike Ayala
Bobby Chacon-Bazooka Limon IV
Bobby Chacon-Cornelius Boza-Edwards II
Felix Trinidad-Fernando Vargas
Matthew Saad-Muhammad-Marvin Johnson I & II
Matthew Saad Muhammad-Yacqui Lopez II
Muhammad Ali-Joe Frazier I & III
Wilfredo Gomez-Lupe Pintor
Ruben Olivares-Kazuyoshi Kanazawa II
Marco Antonio Barrera-Erik Morales I
Rafael Marquez-Israel Vazquez III
Diego Corrales-Jose Luis Castillo I
Michael Carbajal-Chiquita Gonzalez I
Evander Holyfield-Dwight Muhammad Qawi I
Marvelous Marvin Hagler-Thomas Hearns
Salvador Sanchez-Wilfredo Gomez
Riddick Bowe-Evander Holyfield I
Riddick Bowe-Andrew Golota II
Juan Manuel Marquez-Juan Diaz I
Salvador Sanchez-Azumah Nelson
Julio Cesar Chavez-Meldrick Taylor I
James Toney-Vasiliy Jirov
Eder Jofre-Jose Medel I
Eder Jofre-Fighting Harada I
Carlos Zarate-Alfonso Zamora
Joe Frazier-Jerry Quarry I
Alexis Arguello-Ruben Olivares
Ruben Olivares-Chucho Castillo I & II
Bob Foster-Chris Finnegan
Jose Luis Ramirez-Edwin Rosario II
Steve Cruz-Barry McGuigan
Arturo-Gatti-Micky Ward I
Arturo-Gatti-Ivan Robinson I
Micky Ward-Emmanuel Augustus
Robert Quiroga-Akeem Anifowoshe
Sugar Ray Leonard-Tommy Hearns I
Roberto Duran-Sugar Ray Leonard I
Roberto Duran-Iran Barkley
Juan Manuel Marquez-Marco Antonio Barrera
Juan Manuel Marquez-Manny Pacquaio I, II, IV
Marco Antonio Barrera-Erik Morales III
Erik Morales-Manny Pacquaio I
Masao Ohba-Betulio Gonzalez
Arturo Gatti-Gabriel Ruelas
James Toney-Mike McCallum I & II
Ricardo Lopez-Rosendo Alvarez II
Vicente Saldivar-Howard Winstone II
Jose Medel-Jesus Pimentel
 
I see David Allen has signed for MTK global does this mean he will be fighting on BT sports now instead of SKY boxing?
 
Raoul said:
Wladimir or Vitali ?
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I would pick Vitali in a head to head fight even though Wladimir is the the more skilled boxer and harder hitter. Wlad has more weaknesses and nowhere near the chin his brother has. Vitali, also is even bigger than Wlad and awkward as hell. As far as who's more accomplished and had the better career? Wladimir by a long way but I do find both to be overrated especially Vitali who IMO deserves to be nowhere near the hall of fame.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I would pick Vitali in a head to head fight even though Wladimir is the the more skilled boxer and harder hitter. Wlad has more weaknesses and nowhere near the chin his brother has. Vitali, also is even bigger than Wlad and awkward as hell. As far as who's more accomplished and had the better career? Wladimir by a long way but I do find both to be overrated especially Vitali who IMO deserves to be nowhere near the hall of fame.
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It’s a hard one to call and I suspect it would be an epic fight, but I would guess Vitali is a touch more cerebral than his brother. It’s absolutely amazing that Vitali only lost twice during his career.
 
I think that Vitali was far better Wladimir. Wladimir had more punching power and better footwoork, but Vitali of course had his granite chin (never being knocked down in his amateur or professional career - that monstrous uppercut that he took from Lennox Lewis would have stopped Wlad without a doubt), the size and reach advantage, superior mental strength, was far more durable etc. That's not to say that Vitali didn't have tremendous power himself alongside his long jab. Maybe it's a reach to say that Vitali had all of Wlad's strengths and none / few of his weaknesses, but I don't think that would be too wrong.

Also let's face it, for long periods Vitali sacrified his career due to not wanting to fight Wlad, and often 'stepped aside' to allow Wlad to take the glory and limelight. That was I was always sceptical of Wlad's success when he held multiple belts and felt that it kind of had an asterisk next to it.
 
Anybody got a short list of prospects they think will be champs or fun fighters in the future?

Mine:

Ryan Garcia
Vergil Ortiz
Fiodor Czerkaszyn
Otha Jones III
Sonny Conto

3 dead cert future champs, 1 intriguing kid and a Rocky Balboa type guy. All fun to follow.
 
Gentleman Jim said:
Anybody got a short list of prospects they think will be champs or fun fighters in the future?

Mine:

Ryan Garcia
Vergil Ortiz
Fiodor Czerkaszyn
Otha Jones III
Sonny Conto

3 dead cert future champs, 1 intriguing kid and a Rocky Balboa type guy. All fun to follow.
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Xander Zayas from Puerto Rico more than likely. It's so easy to be a "champ" these days but I do think Garcia and Ortiz will be very good fighters.

Jaron Ennis I view as almost a sure thing. Top notch welterweight out of Philadelphia. IMO better than Ortiz (and I like Ortiz a lot). Brock Jarvis from Australia too. The featherweight division will probably be his in the future especially as Shakur Stevenson outgrows the division.

I haven't seen Czerkaszyn. I'll keep an eye out though. Hasn't fight in America yet?
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Xander Zayas from Puerto Rico more than likely. It's so easy to be a "champ" these days but I do think Garcia and Ortiz will be very good fighters.

Jaron Ennis I view as almost a sure thing. Top notch welterweight out of Philadelphia. IMO better than Ortiz (and I like Ortiz a lot). Brock Jarvis from Australia too. The featherweight division will probably be his in the future especially as Shakur Stevenson outgrows the division.

I haven't seen Czerkaszyn. I'll keep an eye out though. Hasn't fight in America yet?
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No, purely E European but tearing it up there.
I actually prefer following the rise of fighters to what happens when they get there.
 
Raoul said:
Wladimir or Vitali ?
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Vitali for me - much more resourceful fighter than his brother, more difficult to hit and had a great chin. What's underrated about Vitali was his cardio; he could easily go 12 rounds without a problem. He was also good to brawl, slug it out when needed like the fight vs Corrie Sanders for instance.

Wlad had the bigger punch and maybe was a bit more polished but i'd pick his elder brother to win a fight between them. No disrespect to Wlad, he had the better career in the end and ended on a great albeit losing note vs AJ.
 
I watched the first Holyfield-Tyson fight from 1996 recently (I was only 6 when it took place), and wow after the first round which I think Tyson won, Holyfield really dominated and battered him for the rest of the fight. It=f I was watching the fight live in real-time, I would have been shocked that Tyson was even able to extend it into the 11th found.
 


I reckon Hearn must regret signing him, prob try get him that Canelo fight and probably feck him off somehow after that, there's not much interest in him at the best of times.
 
Oggmonster said:


I reckon Hearn must regret signing him, prob try get him that Canelo fight and probably feck him off somehow after that, there's not much interest in him at the best of times.
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Did you watch the video what an idiot, hope Canelo puts some manners into him really don’t like the fool.
 
Deery said:
Did you watch the video what an idiot, hope Canelo puts some manners into him really don’t like the fool.
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Yeah I saw it, I find him painful to be honest always have done. Even weirder is there is people making excuses for him saying it was a "joke" etc...he's done it a few times now thought he'd of learnt from the first joke really when no one laughed then...
 
Oggmonster said:
Yeah I saw it, I find him painful to be honest always have done. Even weirder is there is people making excuses for him saying it was a "joke" etc...he's done it a few times now thought he'd of learnt from the first joke really when no one laughed then...
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Definitely, didn’t he offer a crackhead drugs for sex or something and made a video of it complete scumbag and those defending him a idiots too.
 
I've just read a piece on the night Michael Spinks beat Larry Holmes. Wasn't it a bit crazy that a guy as good as him retired after Tyson and never was tempted to come back ?

Most competitors would probably have that loss burning inside them. By the way, just how good was peak Spinks?
 
Billy Joe Saunders is a good good fighter, but deserves to be banned for a few years. He is in a position of being a public role model to children and he does this BS!! This is not the first time, the video with the crack addict was terrible too. He needs to learn the hard way and deserves a 3 year ban from the sport.

There are women in violent relationships around the world with no hope and he has made a joke out of this, it's shocking and he needs to learn the hard way, because there are people stupid enough to copy his appalling behaviour.

His managment team should make him go on a 6 month learning problem, meeting women who are/have been in relationships with domestic violence.

Just ridiculous!!
 
I don't understand where the joke is during the whole video. There is no 'punchline'. There is no humour. There's nothing. He's an idiot and should be banned for a long time but won't. Reminder that Eddie Hearn pushed through for the Youtuber fight to be on DAZN where one of the competitors filmed a dead body and made 'jokes' about it. BJS will be back too which is shite.
 
SilentWitness said:
I don't understand where the joke is during the whole video. There is no 'punchline'. There is no humour. There's nothing. He's an idiot and should be banned for a long time but won't. Reminder that Eddie Hearn pushed through for the Youtuber fight to be on DAZN where one of the competitors filmed a dead body and made 'jokes' about it. BJS will be back too which is shite.
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Yeah there isn't...it's not his first time saying stuff like this either which is a bit weird. He's always seemed to have no filter at all and most his opinions are at best odd.

Them YouTube fights generated big interest and viewers unfortunately for BJS he doesn't do the same.
 
Deery said:
Definitely, didn’t he offer a crackhead drugs for sex or something and made a video of it complete scumbag and those defending him a idiots too.
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Made a crackhead woman punch a random bloke in the face for £150 then drove off.



Pulled a guy over and made him strip on the motorway (feck knows why the bloke went along with it but still pathetic from BJS)



Got his son to punch his opponent in the balls



He also filmed his son go up to a random bloke and punch him in the balls.

He's a good boxer but he is complete pondlife.
 
SilentWitness said:
I don't understand where the joke is during the whole video. There is no 'punchline'. There is no humour. There's nothing. He's an idiot and should be banned for a long time but won't. Reminder that Eddie Hearn pushed through for the Youtuber fight to be on DAZN where one of the competitors filmed a dead body and made 'jokes' about it. BJS will be back too which is shite.
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It is dark humour. A wife could make a video about how to KILL your husband when he pisses you off and talk about reversing over him in the front drive and it would be seen as completely comedic although we are talking about murder.
 
Stacks said:
It is dark humour. A wife could make a video about how to KILL your husband when he pisses you off and talk about reversing over him in the front drive and it would be seen as completely comedic although we are talking about murder.
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I'm all for dark humour, no topic is out of bounds but delivery is important. There was no comedic conceit, punchline or wit - if he did it humourously he'd get a lot more leeway but it was just weird tbh. If you compare it to Tony Thompson's interview after the David Price fight, where he talks about crippling his wife when he gets home (which is an even darker subject when written down without context) yet he did it with obvious, disarming humour which renders it far more palatable to most sane people.




There's the difference. Also you have to factor that BJS is a complete cock with a puerile and nasty sense of humour so the benefit of the doubt is gone thanks to his previous antics.
 
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MalcolmTucker said:
I'm all for dark humour, no topic is out of bounds but delivery is important. There was no comedic conceit, punchline or wit - if he did it humourously he'd get a lot more leeway but it was just weird tbh. If you compare it to Tony Thompson's interview after the David Price fight, where he talks about crippling his wife when he gets home (which is an even darker subject when written down without context) yet he did it with obvious, disarming humour which renders it far more palatable to most sane people.




There's the difference. Also you have to factor that BJS is a complete cock with a puerile and nasty sense of humour so the benefit of the doubt is gone thanks to his previous antics.
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I could tell he was joking. Life is a joke to BJS. He seems the type that is a wanker about everything and a right piss taker.
 
Anthony Yarde has lost his Dad and Grandfather to Coronavirus in the last 2 weeks. So very sad.
 
MalcolmTucker said:
I'm all for dark humour, no topic is out of bounds but delivery is important. There was no comedic conceit, punchline or wit - if he did it humourously he'd get a lot more leeway but it was just weird tbh. If you compare it to Tony Thompson's interview after the David Price fight, where he talks about crippling his wife when he gets home (which is an even darker subject when written down without context) yet he did it with obvious, disarming humour which renders it far more palatable to most sane people.




There's the difference. Also you have to factor that BJS is a complete cock with a puerile and nasty sense of humour so the benefit of the doubt is gone thanks to his previous antics.
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I'm with Stacks here. FYI, I think BJS a class A cnut, but clearly he is joking here. The nuance of his comedy should not be the determining factor as to whether his actions are acceptable or not.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I’m going to go through Holyfield’s career set in the next week or two since I’ll be home so much.

I did watch one of my all-time favorite heavyweight fights the other day - Bowe vs. Golota II. Had some friends over and we watched some old fights and I put this one on. People had forgotten how crazy it was.
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Was so bizarre. Golota was winning both fights (though probably cause he hurt Bowe early with illegitimate punches), and then he did that. What an idiot!
 
ivaldo said:
I'm with Stacks here. FYI, I think BJS a class A cnut, but clearly he is joking here. The nuance of his comedy should not be the determining factor as to whether his actions are acceptable or not.
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I've not said he wasn't joking or that the video, in isolation, deserves a ban. It is stupid but if someone else did it, I'd probably give them the benefit of the doubt even though it's completely unfunny. I was just explaining as to why it's gone down badly and the difference in between successful and unsuccessful humour.

I personally think the other things he's done are far worse and prove that he has a nasty streak and is always punching down - much like his record.
 
Bit daft to do a video about beating a woman up at a time when there's real concern over a rise in domestic violence regardless of how comedic it's meant to be.
 
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