The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Fortitude]

He did that after the last Wilder fight. This fight he made a guaranteed $25m plus PPV upside so I think he'll crack $30m for this one as it seems to have sold well. I believe the six fight deal with ESPN/Top Rank guarantees him $100m plus PPV % upside. It is why I don't think he'll fight Joshua within the next three fights and then once the contract is up he'll be able to command $50m or more for that one fight.

He seems to be a really good guy. Has said and done stupid things in the past and has turned it around. It's very hard not to admire the man.

Hope perfecting the Kornk style becomes Fury's new obsession and pre-occupation to keep his mind completely focused. If Wilder does activate, the motivation to do a better job - Fury has said he wasn't happy with a few things in his performance - might keep Fury100% where he needs to be.

re. the fight deal - there'll be a workaround as there's no way they won't capitalise on the hype and elevation of Fury's journey and performance ASAP. Hearn is talking about working with Top Rank, DAZN, ESPN, Sky and BT etc. to satisfy all parties... even the possibility of this all-British bout being taken to Saudi Arabia to offset costs and have them put up a compensatory package to all involved.

I hope that's not going to be the way of things from now on, with the Saudi's muscling in to scramble the boxing landscape - an all-British affair for the ages that should be held at Wembley going to Saudi Arabia, for example...

Wilder and his camp are very raw to all of this kind of stuff. Very ill considered to put that forward in haste. Keep your mouth shut, get your head straight and then offer up something diginified or that doesn't make you even more of a meme than you were before you said anything at all.

 

[Fortitude]

I amazed at those are still trying to conclude Fury has no power in his punches. How can you not see that the flicking and moving style on the balls of ones' feet is never going to display the full % power output of a man's punch (as it's all arm with no bodyweight behind it) compared to when he is teeing off with feet planted and putting full torque and extension into the jabs (in particular) from a solid base he's teeing off from to set up the straights and crosses?

Fury fighting long and through his punches is a really troublesome proposition given the guy is 6'9" tall and 280lb with the best reflexes, reaction times and head movement (he's the only big gun that can roll power punches and big shots) in the division from the outset. He's susceptible to the uppercut at the moment, but how long for? It's better for Joshua to be trying to fight him as soon as he can before more strings are added to Fury's bow (perfecting Kronk style), which will make him even more awkward and difficult to fight.

This is not to say Fury has skills comparable to Hearns, but the comparison drawn is of a Hearns in a division with no Hagler's, Duran's or Leonard's to counteract someone so long, mobile and reflexively fast - real experts in specific areas that can negate all those qualities of the Hearns in their own way. Due to the weakness of the HW division, you've got to wonder what happens from here out if Fury is hungry and motivated to stay.

Plonking Fury into imaginary matchups with the 90's stable is far more of a curiosity than visualising him up against what's out there now; that would be the fascinating thing from the above paragraph as you had your equivalencies to all those guys mentioned and more, where you have parodies now.

 

[Judas]

Wilder just pathetic excuses. He should have kept quiet, better for him.

What will he blame when loses for a 3rd time to Fury?

Real shame the division gets held up for a fight I don't think many people want to see again, but that's boxing.

 

[Thisistheone]

Wilder

I've heard a lot of excuses over the years but thats right up there. Apparently the 3rd fight will be July but Bob Arum is talking about pushing it back to Sept/Oct? They are hell bent on freezing Joshua out ever since those talks went sour 2 years ago between Hearn and Shelly Finkel.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I amazed at those are still trying to conclude Fury has no power in his punches. How can you not see that the flicking and moving style on the balls of ones' feet is never going to display the full % power output of a man's punch (as it's all arm with no bodyweight behind it) compared to when he is teeing off with feet planted and putting full torque and extension into the jabs (in particular) from a solid base he's teeing off from to set up the straights and crosses?

Look back over is career and he has stood and traded with plenty of fighters. The idea of Fury being this Willie Pep style fighter throughout his career is false.

He's traded with and gone the distance with straight bum punching bags like this guy who'd been stopped 9 times before he fought Fury

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/282407

 

[ivaldo]

Joshua has more depth to his resume but you'd have to say Fury's top two wins are better. I think Fury is the superior fighter and if they retired today would rank higher on the all-time list. The edge being the two huge wins and the fact Joshua was beaten up in his prime where Fury has won every fight and dominated his best opponents.

I like both fighters. Hopefully they fight one day. It's too big a fight/event to miss out on.

I wonder if he wasn't gifted that McDermott fight and he had that loss on his record if he would be viewed any differently.

 

[Oggmonster]

Apparently Fury has given his entire 9 million purse to helping the homeless which is an amazing gesture. How can anyone not root for him ?

He did that after the last Wilder fight. This fight he made a guaranteed $25m plus PPV upside so I think he'll crack $30m for this one as it seems to have sold well. I believe the six fight deal with ESPN/Top Rank guarantees him $100m plus PPV % upside. It is why I don't think he'll fight Joshua within the next three fights and then once the contract is up he'll be able to command $50m or more for that one fight.

He seems to be a really good guy. Has said and done stupid things in the past and has turned it around. It's very hard not to admire the man.

I like Fury but do people actually believe this donating to charity stuff? It was said the last time and there's never any proof of it. I'm not saying it has to be declared but it just seems like a throw away comment that spreads on stuff like Facebook and Twitter with no proof at all and is taken as gospel.

 

[Fortitude]

Look back over is career and he has stood and traded with plenty of fighters. The idea of Fury being this Willie Pep style fighter throughout his career is false.

He's traded with and gone the distance with straight bum punching bags like this guy who'd been stopped 9 times before he fought Fury

https://boxrec.com/en/proboxer/282407

He's being taught how to punch in that style now; he's shots are going to have the pop they should have from the base Kronk will give him.

I would also say Fury's career is really divided between the fighter who was all over the place mentally and on the fringes, not training properly, saying controversial/outrageous things etc. and the guy who is trying to refine himself and make the best of the talent he has.

Time will tell, as well as if he adopts the style more often, but I expect to see an uptake in his power from now on, personally.

 

[ivaldo]

He's being taught how to punch in that style now; he's shots are going to have the pop they should have from the base Kronk will give him.

I would also say Fury's career is really divided between the fighter who was all over the place mentally and on the fringes, not training properly, saying controversial/outrageous things etc. and the guy who is trying to refine himself and make the best of the talent he has.

Time will tell, as well as if he adopts the style more often, but I expect to see an uptake in his power from now on, personally.

He’s never going to have genuine punching power though, and there’s always going to be a trade off when he tries to generate more power. It’ll be interesting to see how he adapts for when he eventually faces Joshua. I wouldn’t be surprised if he reverted back to how he fought before.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

He's being taught how to punch in that style now; he's shots are going to have the pop they should have from the base Kronk will give him.

I would also say Fury's career is really divided between the fighter who was all over the place mentally and on the fringes, not training properly, saying controversial/outrageous things etc. and the guy who is trying to refine himself and make the best of the talent he has.

Time will tell, as well as if he adopts the style more often, but I expect to see an uptake in his power from now on, personally.

Personally I think it's a lot less sexy than all that. He went into the fight fat in order to improve his own punch resistance, to put more weight behind his own punches and so he could lean on Wilder to drain him and his punch resistance. Add that to the long rumoured glass jaw of Wilder and you have the result we saw.

I find it hard to believe that someone that has boxed for 25 years doesn't know how to sit down on their punches.

 

[Fortitude]

Personally I think it's a lot less sexy than all that. He went into the fight fat in order to improve his own punch resistance, to put more weight behind his own punches and so he could lean on Wilder to drain him and his punch resistance. Add that to the long rumoured glass jaw of Wilder and you have the result we saw.

I find it hard to believe that someone that has boxed for 25 years doesn't know how to sit down on their punches.

You can go to specific gyms to improve specific aspects, and nowhere more renowned than Kronk for jabs and followups off that jab.

There's always going to be a difference between throwing punches or generally being a pro and as a specialist at aspects - same goes for parrying, footwork, shoulder rolls etc. etc.

But we'll see going forward; I'm just surprised how Fury is still being called paper-fisted and a soft puncher.

 

[Fortitude]

Much more interesting after the fact:



John was 100% despite sounding partisan prior to the event.

 

[poleglass red]

I think Fury himself realised he could hurt Wilder from the last round in their 1st fight. After Fury rose from the dead, he piled on the pressure but there is one exchange in particular in that round where Fury hurts him. You can see Wilder is visibly hurt. That was really the 1st time Fury rocked him as before on that he hadn't really been sitting down on his jab. I think at that point Fury himself knew he needed a change of direction in his game plan for teh rematch hence the coach change. I see Davison his ex coach was surprised by Fury winning by stoppage, yet Fury said all along pre fight he would stop him. This more aggressive Fury was ideal for this fight, his body shots have largely gone unnoticed but Fury caught him with some excellent body punches. I've no interest in a 3rd fight to be honest, I 'd much prefer we had a unified champ, but easier said than done.

 

[ivaldo]

You can go to specific gyms to improve specific aspects, and nowhere more renowned than Kronk for jabs and followups off that jab.

There's always going to be a difference between throwing punches or generally being a pro and as a specialist at aspects - same goes for parrying, footwork, shoulder rolls etc. etc.

But we'll see going forward; I'm just surprised how Fury is still being called paper-fisted and a soft puncher.

He still comparatively speaking, no? You look at the other top heavyweights in the division. Wilder, Joshua, Whyte, Usyk, Ruiz, Ortiz, Povetkin, Chisora etc. are all rightly considered harder punchers.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Wilder sacked his coach for throwing towel. Guy saves Wilder's health ( and who knows, maybe career) and gets sacked.

 

[DVG7]

Wilder Blaming his entrance costume for the defeat

 

[Oggmonster]

Wilder sacked his coach for throwing towel. Guy saves Wilder's health ( and who knows, maybe career) and gets sacked.

It's crazy but not surprising. He will surround himself with yes men.

He should of taken a leaf out Joshua's book and just owned the defeat. Better fighter won and you learn from it etc. The same thing will happen again in the rematch, probably a lot sooner would be my guess.

 

[Andycoleno9]

It's crazy but not surprising. He will surround himself with yes men.

He should of taken a leaf out Joshua's book and just owned the defeat. Better fighter won and you learn from it etc. The same thing will happen again in the rematch, probably a lot sooner would be my guess.

Best way to go down for boxer...

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

https://www.boxingscene.com/wilder-...ible-bayless-let-him-get-away-with-it--147087

Concussion+ being a terrible sport = the lamest excuses following a loss in modern memory. Wilder ALWAYS fights dirty. He was the one throwing rabbit punches as he did last time. It's ok for him to fight dirty and apply the "no excuses" policy but he has free reign? Pathetic.

Here's a list of some of his excuses so far:

Costume tired him out
Had bad legs
Had a bad hand
Bayless let Fury fight dirty
Breland was acting under the instructions of Fury's trainer telling them to stop fight early
He wasn't hurt and fight shouldn't have been stopped
Complications in training camp
Too much media work
Walked around his dressing room too much and got tired
Got too re-hydrated after the weigh-in and needed to piss so bad couldn't focus on Fury

Fight I he had some gems too:

Broken arm
Broken hand
Pressure of PPV
Tampered scales
Long count,
Referee Jack Reiss was on Tyson’s side
He was 50% and Tyson was 100%
Tyson did some voodoo magic
Tyson was covered in baby oil
Fury's height advantage
Fury's weight advantage
Wilder claims he clearly won 10 rounds
Wilder had the flu day of the fight
He didn’t KO Fury because he’s scared of his own power
Celebrated too early and got gassed
Bias commentary
Americans not wanting a black guy to succeed

Funny because he said before fight I. "I don't want to hear excuses how he was fat and addicted to drugs", you know things that actually did happen. Before this fight he said he wanted "no excuses about his training being interrupted by Fury's cut" which did happen. When Hearn said he heard Fury had a bad camp he insisted "no excuses". Interesting that policy only goes if the result is bad for him.

In all my years of watching boxing honestly speaking he's been the fighter I cared least for for multiple reasons. I am glad his true colors are showing more and more and people who were conned into liking him see what he's about. He's a front runner and a bully and he's not that good of a fighter.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

The worst excuses heard in boxing since David Haye's poorly toe.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Hope perfecting the Kornk style becomes Fury's new obsession and pre-occupation to keep his mind completely focused. If Wilder does activate, the motivation to do a better job - Fury has said he wasn't happy with a few things in his performance - might keep Fury100% where he needs to be.

re. the fight deal - there'll be a workaround as there's no way they won't capitalise on the hype and elevation of Fury's journey and performance ASAP. Hearn is talking about working with Top Rank, DAZN, ESPN, Sky and BT etc. to satisfy all parties... even the possibility of this all-British bout being taken to Saudi Arabia to offset costs and have them put up a compensatory package to all involved.

I hope that's not going to be the way of things from now on, with the Saudi's muscling in to scramble the boxing landscape - an all-British affair for the ages that should be held at Wembley going to Saudi Arabia, for example...


Wilder and his camp are very raw to all of this kind of stuff. Very ill considered to put that forward in haste. Keep your mouth shut, get your head straight and then offer up something diginified or that doesn't make you even more of a meme than you were before you said anything at all.

It would be awful to see the fight anywhere but the U.K. Honestly, I'd LOVE to see it at the new Raiders stadium in Las Vegas for selfish reasons but it feels only right in England. It's the biggest all U.K fight maybe in history and it's two guys with great fan bases and would sell out Wembley multiple times over.

If Fury can keep improving at this style and of course we know he's excellent on his feet that's two dimensions that are a nightmare for most. One of the two styles would beat every heavyweight currently and he's smart enough to execute either one depending on the opponent. I am also interested to see Joshua fighting 2-3 more times with a smaller frame and continue to evolve and it's part of the reason I am not necessarily demanding Fury-Joshua this year. I am actually fine waiting 18 months or so as it builds and builds and they improve.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

The worst excuses heard in boxing since David Haye's poorly toe.

Haye's was great but I think the outfit excuse is genuinely the best I've ever heard.

 

[Fortitude]

He still comparatively speaking, no? You look at the other top heavyweights in the division. Wilder, Joshua, Whyte, Usyk, Ruiz, Ortiz, Povetkin, Chisora etc. are all rightly considered harder punchers.

That's a wide range of fighters with very different power shots; most of them being stocky and squat (relative to these 6'5"+ fighters), which lends itself to short, circular shots (powerful hooks in particular), due to their style and full commitment in brawling range, but not much else. I don't think a man as big as Fury is ever going to fully commit to a hook so we'll never really know what he could do with one with all his weight going through his twisting body and out into the punch, but what I would like to compare would be the power of the jabs and straights these guys have.

I think Joshua has the most powerful jab of the lot, and his straight would be just behind Wilder's, but after that, I'm not sure there's much difference - DuBois should be in this conversation, imo as he's got heavy hands and throws with intent; I'd put him above those guys for jabs and straights and his crosses have some serious power behind them, too. I'd remove Usyk until he shows any kind of effectiveness in the power stakes in the HW division, personally. Takam would have something to say in the power stakes as well.

Fury has the biggest scope and room for improvement (let's write Wilder off as he's not going to learn anything at his age) in those two punches because he was never trained to throw them as he's picking up now - he's not gone to the Catskills or anywhere that's going to have him circular punching like tornado, but by learning how to put all his 20st. through his jab on the offensive rather than flicking it out with the intention of pivoting out (ergo never committing fully) it's a whole different story, and heaven help anyone who gets hit by a proper straight thrown by a 6'9" 20st Goliath!

 

[Fortitude]

It would be awful to see the fight anywhere but the U.K. Honestly, I'd LOVE to see it at the new Raiders stadium in Las Vegas for selfish reasons but it feels only right in England. It's the biggest all U.K fight maybe in history and it's two guys with great fan bases and would sell out Wembley multiple times over.

If Fury can keep improving at this style and of course we know he's excellent on his feet that's two dimensions that are a nightmare for most. One of the two styles would beat every heavyweight currently and he's smart enough to execute either one depending on the opponent. I am also interested to see Joshua fighting 2-3 more times with a smaller frame and continue to evolve and it's part of the reason I am not necessarily demanding Fury-Joshua this year. I am actually fine waiting 18 months or so as it builds and builds and they improve.

Problem is money talks and the Saudi's have more of it the're willing to part with than anyone. They'll gladly put up the cash to make a lot of these broadcast and contractual issues disappear, and Hearn/Joshua have already shown they'll gladly take what's on offer, and I guess if Fury really wants the fight, he will, too.

True about the whole of your second paragraph, and it was a real pleasure to see Joshua going back to basics and looking like a much better prospect for it. Joshua is playing catch-up for boxing exp. so more time would be beneficial, but one thing he'll not be able to do is prepare for someone like Fury by getting rounds in with others, as none of them are 6'9" or able to move or react like Fury does, plus all those double and triple feints to someone who already has poor head movement, you have to wonder how they'll replicate that in camp, unless they get some cruisers in, but then you're back to the issue of size and length just not being the same. Finding someone who outreaches Joshua is difficult enough, let alone with the added counter punching and movement.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Problem is money talks and the Saudi's have more of it the're willing to part with than anyone. They'll gladly put up the cash to make a lot of these broadcast and contractual issues disappear, and Hearn/Joshua have already shown they'll gladly take what's on offer, and I guess if Fury really wants the fight, he will, too.

True about the whole of your second paragraph, and it was a real pleasure to see Joshua going back to basics and looking like a much better prospect for it. Joshua is playing catch-up for boxing exp. so more time would be beneficial, but one thing he'll not be able to do is prepare for someone like Fury by getting rounds in with others, as none of them are 6'9" or able to move or react like Fury does, plus all those double and triple feints to someone who already has poor head movement, you have to wonder how they'll replicate that in camp, unless they get some cruisers in, but then you're back to the issue of size and length just not being the same. Finding someone who outreaches Joshua is difficult enough, let alone with the added counter punching and movement.

I think the best thing he could do is perhaps get Wladimir as a consultant of sorts but may be hard given the good relationship between Wlad and Sugar Hill. I say Wlad because he's been in with both and seen the best of both and has a great boxing brain and has been the boxer and the banger so knows the angles from different aspects. As far as sparring? That's really difficult. There's only one Tyson Fury.

 

[Fortitude]

I think the best thing he could do is perhaps get Wladimir as a consultant of sorts but may be hard given the good relationship between Wlad and Sugar Hill. I say Wlad because he's been in with both and seen the best of both and has a great boxing brain and has been the boxer and the banger so knows the angles from different aspects. As far as sparring? That's really difficult. There's only one Tyson Fury.

Good point. He'll probably do that. If he can get right inside, the fight can definitely be turned in his favour with that uppercut of his. Fury can't lean on him so readily as he did with Wilder, that's for sure.

 

[Fortitude]

So for a bit of fun, where would you rank Fury, Joshua and Wilder amongst this lot from the 90's:

1. Lewis
2. Holyfield
3. Bowe
4. Tyson
5. Ruddock
6. Vitali
7. Tua
8. Moorer
9. Golata
10. Foreman

Slot them in where you think there'd go and the reckoning and whys of who would beat them.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Since nobody asked for it here's my new and updated pound for pound list. Some moves. Unfortunately Spence, in spite of coming off a big win is probably not in the frame for a big fight this year nor likely to be the same so he takes a hit. I think Golovkin's best days are numbered too.

1. Vasily Lomachenko - I think the best two fighters are him and Crawford. His talent is more unique and at his best he's more untouchable plus his competition has been far better.

2. Terence Crawford - I think he's the most complete boxer in the sport. I think his mega fight will be the Taylor-Ramirez winner.

3. Naoya Inoue - Been proving himself with big title fights and now has a unification coming up to further solidify his ranking. The most entertaining fighter in the world.

4. Olaksandr Usyk - Unforunately injuries have hurt his momentum but he's got to be top 5. He's a boxing genius and I think he has a great chance against all heavyweights apart from Fury who's a bad style match for him.

5. Canelo Alvarez - I don't believe he beat GGG (or Lara) but he has been improving and there's not many fighters as rounded as him or with as deep a resume.

6. Tyson Fury - His biggest moments he stepped up and delivered. Would probably be higher had he been more active. Seems to be active now though. Maybe he's the least likely boxer on the list to lose a fight in the next 2-3 years. Maybe.

7. Juan Francisco Estrada - Personally, he's got the style I enjoy the most purely from a technique standpoint. Very deep resume to match his blazing skills. Masterclass against Rungvisai in the re-match means only man who's bettered him as a peak Chocolatito when Estrada when young.

8. GGG - Dereyvchenko fight could go either way and the opponent is an excellent fighter but can't help feel GGG has been on the slide for a while. The fact I believe he beat Canelo twice keeps him alive for me.

9. Josh Taylor - Tempted to put him higher. He's been on a hell of a run. Davies, Baranchyk, Postol, Martin were all considered tough matches and of course Prograis was a mega fight. He stepped up and won with class. My dream fight in boxing now (along with a certain Heavyweight fight) is him and Ramirez. If Taylor wins then he could have a claim almost anywhere on the list.

10. Artur Beterbiev - The calm and class he showed against such a high class opponent in Gvozdyk shows why it's a shame this guy has been so poorly managed. He's a quality fighter. I just hope we see him with Bivol, Smith, Ramirez etc;

On the cusp: Errol Spence, Anthony Joshua, Kosei Tanaka, Manny Pacquaio, Jose Ramirez, Mikey Garcia

 

[Andersons Dietician]

How long do we suppose Wilder was wearing that 40lb (18kg) get up for before the fight. I mean I’ve done hour long obstacle courses with a 20kg weighted vest on and managed alright so I mean a professional athlete walking 100 m from the changing room to the rings, I mean come on man.

Best excuse in boxing. More likely he let the nerves get to him and he had an adrenaline dump and his legs just went to jelly. By the end of round one he honestly looked terrified.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

How long do we suppose Wilder was wearing that 40lb (18kg) get up for before the fight. I mean I’ve done hour long obstacle courses with a 20kg weighted vest on and managed alright so I mean a professional athlete walking 100 m from the changing room to the rings, I mean come on man.

Best excuse in boxing. More likely he let the nerves get to him and he had an adrenaline dump and his legs just went to jelly. By the end of round one he honestly looked terrified.

When they interviewed him before the fight he sounded far more nervous then I've heard previously. I think Fury got into his head and he started to doubt himself. I mean, if he was logical, he'd understand he probably knew he lost the first fight (you don't mind that many excuses if you "won") and how badly he was getting schooled by Ortiz.

I think he'll take a third fight to save face and because it's the only way he'll every get paid that type of money again and just roll out with a bunch more excuses and retire a broken fighter.

Regarding these excuses. It's embarrassing. Maybe he's too stupid to realize how bad they look and so delusional that he is buying them and thinks others will.

 

[CallyRed]

 

[Dan]

I’d love to see Wilder’s reaction to that.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

I’d love to see Wilder’s reaction to that.

Ducked him for 600 days already so probably won’t be an offer for a fight

 

[pocco]

You got the wrong Klitschko, mate. Del boy fought Vitali.

Ah yeah, my bad.

 

[Melbourne Red]

Since nobody asked for it here's my new and updated pound for pound list. Some moves. Unfortunately Spence, in spite of coming off a big win is probably not in the frame for a big fight this year nor likely to be the same so he takes a hit. I think Golovkin's best days are numbered too.

1. Vasily Lomachenko - I think the best two fighters are him and Crawford. His talent is more unique and at his best he's more untouchable plus his competition has been far better.

2. Terence Crawford - I think he's the most complete boxer in the sport. I think his mega fight will be the Taylor-Ramirez winner.

3. Naoya Inoue - Been proving himself with big title fights and now has a unification coming up to further solidify his ranking. The most entertaining fighter in the world.

4. Olaksandr Usyk - Unforunately injuries have hurt his momentum but he's got to be top 5. He's a boxing genius and I think he has a great chance against all heavyweights apart from Fury who's a bad style match for him.

5. Canelo Alvarez - I don't believe he beat GGG (or Lara) but he has been improving and there's not many fighters as rounded as him or with as deep a resume.

6. Tyson Fury - His biggest moments he stepped up and delivered. Would probably be higher had he been more active. Seems to be active now though. Maybe he's the least likely boxer on the list to lose a fight in the next 2-3 years. Maybe.

7. Juan Francisco Estrada - Personally, he's got the style I enjoy the most purely from a technique standpoint. Very deep resume to match his blazing skills. Masterclass against Rungvisai in the re-match means only man who's bettered him as a peak Chocolatito when Estrada when young.

8. GGG - Dereyvchenko fight could go either way and the opponent is an excellent fighter but can't help feel GGG has been on the slide for a while. The fact I believe he beat Canelo twice keeps him alive for me.

9. Josh Taylor - Tempted to put him higher. He's been on a hell of a run. Davies, Baranchyk, Postol, Martin were all considered tough matches and of course Prograis was a mega fight. He stepped up and won with class. My dream fight in boxing now (along with a certain Heavyweight fight) is him and Ramirez. If Taylor wins then he could have a claim almost anywhere on the list.

10. Artur Beterbiev - The calm and class he showed against such a high class opponent in Gvozdyk shows why it's a shame this guy has been so poorly managed. He's a quality fighter. I just hope we see him with Bivol, Smith, Ramirez etc;

On the cusp: Errol Spence, Anthony Joshua, Kosei Tanaka, Manny Pacquaio, Jose Ramirez, Mikey Garcia

Haha I was just about to ask people to post their lists, so this is timely. I'm a very casual watcher of the sport so these lists help me gain a better grasp over what's going on. Personally I think Lomachenko is a phenomenon, he simply takes the piss sometimes with his elusive footwork. Don't know if I've seen anyone else dominate without letting the opponent get a glove on him like he does.

 

[Fortitude]

Warren talking about paying Wilder off to step aside and not activate the rematch clause. If they offer him enough, he's going to take it and run.

Perhaps even get himself a contractual agreement to fight Fury further down the line, which would be better for Wilder as he could then try and prepare for that bout as best he can.

 

[Oggmonster]

Warren talking about paying Wilder off to step aside and not activate the rematch clause. If they offer him enough, he's going to take it and run.

Perhaps even get himself a contractual agreement to fight Fury further down the line, which would be better for Wilder as he could then try and prepare for that bout as best he can.

I'd be massively surprised if they can offer him more than he would get to take the fight.

I reckon we get Wilder vs. Fury 3 later in the year

Joshua fights Pulev

At best we get AJ vs Fury next year but I'm always scepital of any big fight in boxing happening.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Warren talking about paying Wilder off to step aside and not activate the rematch clause. If they offer him enough, he's going to take it and run.

Perhaps even get himself a contractual agreement to fight Fury further down the line, which would be better for Wilder as he could then try and prepare for that bout as best he can.

One thing that crossed my mind if that Wilder may claim he’s got to get “surgery” on an “injury” maybe from the costume and therefore have an excuse and get out of the re-match as I think they’d only take it for money reasons. Seems they are sticking to these excuses but knowing the truth know he’ll get killed again. So if they pretend to do injured they somehow justify their loss to (so they think) and get out of another beating. Maybe they try to go back to fighting dross and Fury-Joshua fight and the winner owes him.

 

[poleglass red]

I don't usually read too much into fighters behaviour in dressing room pre fight. In hindsight though, that image of Wilder pacing up and down incessantly in his room, in his shorts and hands wrapped up, then they went to Tyson's dressing room and he's shirtless in his trousers dancing to a song being played, kind of prophetic now.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

I'd be massively surprised if they can offer him more than he would get to take the fight.

I reckon we get Wilder vs. Fury 3 later in the year

Joshua fights Pulev

At best we get AJ vs Fury next year but I'm always scepital of any big fight in boxing happening.

I think we'll see Joshua-Pulev for sure. Usyk is a mandatory too. If both promoters are genuinely trying to make the fight it may make sense to have Usyk step aside or let him have the WBO and be there for the winner. Harsh on Usyk and would be a dick move from Hearn as I am sure he assured him he'd get him Joshua but Joshua-Fury would likely make both sides $60-70m I think.

I think Fury will do three fights as he is contracted to that from ESPN and Top Rank. Massive money too. Wilder III, maybe Miller and whoever the mandatory is, maybe Whyte? I hope he fights twice more this year because a Wilder re-match will be a quick win and easy, pointless (aside form the money) match.

Usyk can ruin it because he can beat Joshua. I think as long as he's kept out then we'll see Fury-Joshua. Hopefully by the end of 2021 at the latest but I think sometime in 2022 given how boxing works. I'd be fine with Usyk stepping aside and getting the winner because that would be a superfight after a superfight. Joshua-Usyk won't get the buzz it deserves because everyone will be complaining it's not Fury.