The RedCafe Boxing Thread

The Warrington-Galahad fight was one of the worst quality World title fights i've ever seen.

Galahad was negative and should have been docked for holding and Warrington was flat and had no clue how to get inside the southpaw stance. Just awful.

I enjoyed Zelfa Barrett beforehand - he's a big united fan too.
 
Didn't watch the fight but heard an interview with Fury on the Radio the other day. It's hard not to like him these days. He seems to be in a really good place at the moment and from listening to his interview I think he beats Wilder in the rematch now. I had thought that Wilder would beat him previously. Freddie Roach says boxing is 90% psychological and Tyson just seems so on point at the moment he's going to be bringing his A++ game I feel. He also framed Wilder's performance against him as embarrassing given how ring rusty Tyson was after all his issues and losing 10 stone for the fight, whilst Wilder had been busy. You can only really give Wilder a punchers chance against a fit and healthy Fury.

I do think that he needs to perhaps fight someone with a pulse if he has another warm up fight though.
 
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Did you guys watch Briedis vs Glowacki ? It went bonkers, that fight. Breidis got away with an elbow to the jaw in the 2nd; he retaliated to a blow to the back of his head. And once the bell rang, he and Glowacki went at it. The ref didn't do his job and Breidis beat the Pole up. The fight was done right there, 6-7 seconds after the bell.The knockout that followed was hardly surprising.
 
Nice little show from that temple of boxing the York Hall, Bethnal Green taking place Friday evening and live on Sky.
Conor Benn and Ted Cheeseman will both be in action but I'm most looking forward to seeing young American prospect Otha Jones III having just his second pro fight.

Lad will be something special reportedly.
 
Kazuto Ioka became Japan's first four weight world champion today by stopping Aston Palicte. He won the WBC title at straweight in his 7th fight from an unbeaten Thai boxer who was around 35-0, made a couple of defenses, in his 10th fight he unified against a very good champion in Akira Yaegashi for his WBA title which gave him The Ring title too. In his 11th fight won a title in a second division which he defended three times before losing on a split decision in Thailand to Amnat Ruenroeng. The following year (2015) won his third title against another good champion in Juan Carlos Reveco and then defended the title five times before retiring in 2017. He came back after attending one of the Super Fly shows and in his first fight back dominated the very capable McWilliams Arroyo before losing a split decision to a pound for pound level fighter in Donnie Nietes now he's won his 4th title against the much bigger Palicte who'd held Nietes to a draw in his previous title bid.

Titles at straweight (unified), junior flyweight*, flyweight (where he was the clear cut #1 when he retired) and junior bantamweight champion. He's been tested against other proven top fighters on a consistent basis and is a very attractive opponent for someone like Estrada or perhaps even Chocolatito. His journey to four titles isn't the Adrien Broner route, he's beaten the top guys and has earned #1 rankings, unified titles etc; The title he won at 108 was the regular WBA title whilst there was a "super" champion though.

This has been an incredible era for Asian boxing and it appears to be getting stronger and stronger as you've got Inoue looking like an absolute all-time great in the making plus the incredible Kosei Tanaka who equaled Lomachenko in winning his 3rd title in his 12th fight. He's only 24 and has already beaten credible fighters like Angel Acosta, Moises Fuentes, Ryoichi Taguchi, Sho Kimura. Donnie Nietes has been putting together a hall of fame career like Ioka too. All of these fighters are on the cusp of the pound for pound lists, in fact I've seen credible lists with them featured. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai of course has been a brilliant fighter and Wanheng Menayothin is 53-0 currently so according to Mayweather fanboys clearly TBE. Of course there's a certain Fillipino congressman who's still kicking ass at 40 years old too.
 
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Revan said:
Usyk will toy with either of them.
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I think he will. Looking back , i think it was Mairis Breidis who gave Usyk one of the toughest fights of his career. A bit strange, considering Breidis isn't a name that keeps coming up or is even rated.
 
I don't think there's a grasp of the difference between a cruiser and an actual heavyweight here.

If Usyk doesn't carry his mobility over, whilst also bringing some genuine heavyweight power up with him, he hasn't a prayer.

You've just seen Ruiz walking through a big, heavy-handed, heavy-hitting heavyweight's punches to land shots. Not only that, he completely absorbed them and hit back harder(!) and that's vs. Someone 20kg+ naturally heavier than Usyk.

Wilder said it, and I'm inclined to agree:
"If [Usyk] was smart, he would stay at the cruiserweight division because when you start coming up in weight, you are going to have to gain some more weight and you are going to be slower than what you was already," Wilder said. "Tony Bellew was tearing him up and was already hitting him and when Usyk was pawing out with that jab, a lot of guys like me with longer arms is not going to take that jab to your face just pawing it. And you ain't touching him, just pawing him. We are going to take advantage of that."

Usyk should stay where he is if he's smart, or do a Roy Jones and fight the light fighters in the Heavyweight division.

If he does take his mobility up with him, it will be interesting to see how he approaches fighters who dwarf him and will knock him into next week if/when they connect - and that's not necessarily regarding headshots, either; a few proper heavyweight punches to the body and his legs will be gone and then he's a sitting duck.
 
I think he's just so much better than the heavies and he's smart to go after them within 2-3 fights whilst he's still absolutely in his prime. I think Fury is a style mess though and that would be too difficult fighting someone who's also elusive, can move and his huge.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I think he's just so much better than the heavies and he's smart to go after them within 2-3 fights whilst he's still absolutely in his prime. I think Fury is a style mess though and that would be too difficult fighting someone who's also elusive, can move and his huge.
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It's crazy that cruiser to heavy is the only time that the masses advocate a much smaller guy going up against relative behemoths.

I know that the cruiser then has carte blanche to add tons of mass, but in past eras, the heavies weren't heavy like they are now and the Holyfield's and Haye's could go up and weigh round abouts the same as the majority they'd fight.

Wilder and Usyk may end up being similar on the scale if Usyk can add the mass, but the guy is built for the division below and the potential damage he could be in for if his mobility and/or stamina is compromised is, or at least should be, a serious concern.

Ruiz, Joshua, Wilder, Whyte have zero reason to respect his power or play technical games with him. It's going to be fun and games until he realises these guys hit with force he can't absorb or withstand...

Fury, I don't think Usyk's camp would make that fight, although a technical bout is better for him than getting clubbed like a baby seal in there by guys walking him down all night.

Usyk should be facing off against the likes of Dubois, Parker, Chisora, Joyce, not the aforementioned, imo.
 
Fortitude said:
I don't think there's a grasp of the difference between a cruiser and an actual heavyweight here.

If Usyk doesn't carry his mobility over, whilst also bringing some genuine heavyweight power up with him, he hasn't a prayer.

You've just seen Ruiz walking through a big, heavy-handed, heavy-hitting heavyweight's punches to land shots. Not only that, he completely absorbed them and hit back harder(!) and that's vs. Someone 20kg+ naturally heavier than Usyk.

Wilder said it, and I'm inclined to agree:
"If [Usyk] was smart, he would stay at the cruiserweight division because when you start coming up in weight, you are going to have to gain some more weight and you are going to be slower than what you was already," Wilder said. "Tony Bellew was tearing him up and was already hitting him and when Usyk was pawing out with that jab, a lot of guys like me with longer arms is not going to take that jab to your face just pawing it. And you ain't touching him, just pawing him. We are going to take advantage of that."

Usyk should stay where he is if he's smart, or do a Roy Jones and fight the light fighters in the Heavyweight division.

If he does take his mobility up with him, it will be interesting to see how he approaches fighters who dwarf him and will knock him into next week if/when they connect - and that's not necessarily regarding headshots, either; a few proper heavyweight punches to the body and his legs will be gone and then he's a sitting duck.
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In fairness Usyk has a decent bit of size though - he's taller than Ruiz and if he's training properly can add on a few kilos of muscle (I don't think he needs to add that much) and keep his range of movement/stamina. His punch power is also underrated for me, it's very crisp and whilst I don't think he's got that one hit ko in him, he'll outwork any of the current HW's and anything going into later rounds will suit him perfectly.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
In fairness Usyk has a decent bit of size though - he's taller than Ruiz and if he's training properly can add on a few kilos of muscle (I don't think he needs to add that much) and keep his range of movement/stamina. His punch power is also underrated for me, it's very crisp and whilst I don't think he's got that one hit ko in him, he'll outwork any of the current HW's and anything going into later rounds will suit him perfectly.
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You're talking at CW not heavy, though. Add 20lb+ to him and you're really running the gauntlet against natural heavies.

I know we lambast the division and mark it down heavily compared to itself from the past, but it's still the heavyweight division and relative to cruiser's, these guys are monsters.

I just don't buy into the notion Usyk can make a mockery of these guys, even if he is an unquestionably better boxer than most of them. It really doesn't matter if you are getting walked down with next to no respect or regard,
and Usyk isn't the kind of brilliant that keeps these guys on the end of his jab all night.
 
I'm only here to ask one thing: Do you think Floyd will ever fight again or is he really done ?
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
He won’t have any serious fights. Maybe a fight with another MMA fighter but that’s it.
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Well he is a fantastic bussinessman, and knows that taking on Canelo at this stage would be very difficult...but man, he is probably still one of the best even at an advanced age...
 
Fortitude said:
It's crazy that cruiser to heavy is the only time that the masses advocate a much smaller guy going up against relative behemoths.

I know that the cruiser then has carte blanche to add tons of mass, but in past eras, the heavies weren't heavy like they are now and the Holyfield's and Haye's could go up and weigh round abouts the same as the majority they'd fight.

Wilder and Usyk may end up being similar on the scale if Usyk can add the mass, but the guy is built for the division below and the potential damage he could be in for if his mobility and/or stamina is compromised is, or at least should be, a serious concern.

Ruiz, Joshua, Wilder, Whyte have zero reason to respect his power or play technical games with him. It's going to be fun and games until he realises these guys hit with force he can't absorb or withstand...

Fury, I don't think Usyk's camp would make that fight, although a technical bout is better for him than getting clubbed like a baby seal in there by guys walking him down all night.

Usyk should be facing off against the likes of Dubois, Parker, Chisora, Joyce, not the aforementioned, imo.
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I agree though I think Joshua is vulnerable and on paper a tailor made fight for Usyk to show he can fight at this level.

I’d be a lot more concerned against Fury/Wilder.
 
Raees said:
I agree though I think Joshua is vulnerable and on paper a tailor made fight for Usyk to show he can fight at this level.

I’d be a lot more concerned against Fury/Wilder.
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Do you just really rate Usyk, or not rate Joshua?

There's at least two fights at HW, below top 5 (even) before Usyk should be taken seriously as a heavyweight who should get bouts at the top-end of the division and entertain bouts against the likes of Joshua.

What's funny about this is, although Usyk isn't the talent equivalent of Jon Jones, the argument against him going up to face genuine heavies is the same - what both of them bring to the table has little bearing on guys who will gladly walk straight into them and trade power for power and hit for hit. Neither of them are even bangers at their natural weight, let alone going up to face considerably heavier men that are.

Like I said before: cruiser/lhw(mma) is the only weight class in combat sports where people advocate someone going up to face an opponent who could have as much as 20kg over them! At all other times it's said 'we have weight classes for a reason,' but not wrt this.

When Bellew (pre-Usyk) was asked if he's going up to fight Wilder he shut that notion down swiftly stating the size, reach and power differentials were too great 'have you seen the size of him!" He exclaimed. This is the same guy who looked fine in there vs. Usyk until he ran out of gas at which point, the fight turned completely in the Ukrainian's favour.

I think there's a long way to go before considering Usyk a threat to any of the top fighters in the division, and someone like Whyte would quickly and brutally put the reality check on him.
 
Fortitude said:
Do you just really rate Usyk, or not rate Joshua?

There's at least two fights at HW, below top 5 (even) before Usyk should be taken seriously as a heavyweight who should get bouts at the top-end of the division and entertain bouts against the likes of Joshua.

What's funny about this is, although Usyk isn't the talent equivalent of Jon Jones, the argument against him going up to face genuine heavies is the same - what both of them bring to the table has little bearing on guys who will gladly walk straight into them and trade power for power and hit for hit. Neither of them are even bangers at their natural weight, let alone going up to face considerably heavier men that are.

Like I said before: cruiser/lhw(mma) is the only weight class in combat sports where people advocate someone going up to face an opponent who could have as much as 20kg over them! At all other times it's said 'we have weight classes for a reason,' but not wrt this.

When Bellew (pre-Usyk) was asked if he's going up to fight Wilder he shut that notion down swiftly stating the size, reach and power differentials were too great 'have you seen the size of him!" He exclaimed. This is the same guy who looked fine in there vs. Usyk until he ran out of gas at which point, the fight turned completely in the Ukrainian's favour.

I think there's a long way to go before considering Usyk a threat to any of the top fighters in the division, and someone like Whyte would quickly and brutally put the reality check on him.
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It is more a case of style match up wise, I don't think Usyk would be an easy opponent for Joshua... he would be a more elusive opponent than a Wilder. Not saying it is a guaranteed win for Usyk, but if he loses to Ruiz again or wins marginally and his confidence is low, he could be vulnerable to an Usyk brimming full of confidence.

I think Usyk would struggle against guys like Fury/Wilder because I don't think he can hurt them and they would eventually land on him and it would be telling.
 
Fortitude said:
You're talking at CW not heavy, though. Add 20lb+ to him and you're really running the gauntlet against natural heavies.

I know we lambast the division and mark it down heavily compared to itself from the past, but it's still the heavyweight division and relative to cruiser's, these guys are monsters.

I just don't buy into the notion Usyk can make a mockery of these guys, even if he is an unquestionably better boxer than most of them. It really doesn't matter if you are getting walked down with next to no respect or regard,
and Usyk isn't the kind of brilliant that keeps these guys on the end of his jab all night.
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Yh what I mean is he's 6 '3 so I think he'd do ok against guys like Ruiz, Whyte, Povetkin etc. I think he should stay well clear of Fury and Wilder and I would have said Joshua but watching the Ruiz fight I feel Joshua is just so static that Usyk's got the brain to navigate taking the fight into later rounds and then go to town on a knackered AJ.

I think it's a case of overestimating HW ability vs underestimating Usyk, he's got an excellent chin and his punching accuracy will hurt big guys if they come in and just try and lean on him, bully him with weight advantage. I don't think he'd make a mockery of any of the top HW but he's an interesting addition to the fold. Definite boxing ability, good chin, supremely fit comparatively to most HWs - he'll give a different dimension to the division that's for sure.
 
Raees said:
It is more a case of style match up wise, I don't think Usyk would be an easy opponent for Joshua... he would be a more elusive opponent than a Wilder. Not saying it is a guaranteed win for Usyk, but if he loses to Ruiz again or wins marginally and his confidence is low, he could be vulnerable to an Usyk brimming full of confidence.

I think Usyk would struggle against guys like Fury/Wilder because I don't think he can hurt them and they would eventually land on him and it would be telling.
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I think Usyk would make Wilder. He'd have him loading up after 2-3 rounds and falling over his own feet. All Wilder has is a right hand, I'm sure Usyk would just take it away and shit him out.
 
I'm going to reserve comment until he shows he's a threat in the division.

There's a long way to go to be talking about the top-end of the division for him.
 
Canelo looking at Callum Smith and Sergey fecking Kovalev for his September fight

“Weight bully”
 
I heard all the hype about Usyk pre Bellew and he didn't impress me at all in that fight. He didn't look elusive at all, Fury is an actual heavyweight and is more elusive.

Think he will get demolished in that division. I can't help but think a younger Bellew would have beaten him.
 
pocco said:
I heard all the hype about Usyk pre Bellew and he didn't impress me at all in that fight. He didn't look elusive at all, Fury is an actual heavyweight and is more elusive.

Think he will get demolished in that division. I can't help but think a younger Bellew would have beaten him.
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One could say it was strategical to exploit Bellew in the latter rounds, but it didn't look like much of a plan with how Bellew was going about his business until he ran out of gas.

If an actual heavyweight was wailing on him like that, the fight wouldn't have gone 6 rounds.

I mentioned Whyte before because he's the type who will go in and absolutely brutalise a smaller man and won't let up for a second. It's the kind of test Usyk needs to come through before he can be considered anything in the division, imo.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
We'll see. Doubt either happens and I bet IF either did it would be at a catch-weight with another bogus re-hydration clause which would be truly and utterly pathetic.
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In fairness Smith and Hearn have been calling Canelo out for ages. I'd argue its more pathetic doing that considering Smith naturally fights in the weight class above him. If it wasn't Canelo he was calling out Smith would probably get a lot more criticism
 
A fairly busy but not entirely thrilling weekend of action.

Commey vs. Beltran tonight. Beltran didn't make weight so can't win the title. He wouldn't win it anyway. He's a spent bullet and Commey is on the up. Commey likely wins handily and then will face Teofimio Lopez and the winner would get Lomachenko vs. Campbell winner. I have no doubt Lopez would duck Lomachenko and pretend he can't make weight and move up but Commey is sort of obligated to face Lomachenko. Lopez has sold his name off of Loma's but once Loma mentioned his name and said he knows what he'll do exactly with Lopez, Lopez has gone dead mute on Loma. Funny how that goes isn't it?

Carlos Adames is on the undercard. He's a good young Dominican fighter who should be able to work his way into a title shot this year or early next. He fights Patrick Day, who I don't know much about. Seems like a showcase fight.

Tomorrow we've got a fairly putrid looking PBC card with Jermall Charlo in yet another mismatch vs. Brandon Adams. However, laughably the WBC have installed Charlo as champion now because they've promoted Canelo to "franchise champion". I think the WBC are by far the worst and least credible of the four "major" titles these days. Mauricio Suliaman is even worse than his father who was a pathetic crook. Think about it. He stripped Sergio Martinez for demanding his #1 contender Chavez JR step up and face him and then gave the title to Chavez. They let Canelo choose a weight for a junior middleweight title against a fighter who'd never fought there and wasn't even top 20 at welterweight in Matthew Hatton. Fails to make the weight, still fights for the title anyway. They've lobbied and demanded that Canelo's cheating be overturned, defended him and then gave him a "diamond" belt, a "mayan" belt and now the "franchise" belt. Charlo hasn't fought a live body in years and never at 160 yet because Al Haymon is friendly with the WBC he's in just like that. How sad that a sport were men like Charles Burley, Sam Langford, Packey Macfarland, Jim Driscoll, all-time greats and pioneering fighters never even got title shots now we get this shit on the regular? Yuck. On the undercard Erikson Lubin is fighting some patsy from France.

The DAZN card is solid at least. Demetrius Andrade vs. Maciej Sulecki is a good match. Andrade, a clear favorite no doubt but Sulecki gave Jacobs a good fight and has built a credible resume. Kal Yafai is on the undercard vs. a Dominican fighter who's on a big winning streak. The guy started his career with 4 losses and was 2-8-1 to start out but now is 29-8-4. His fights all in D.R but his previous title shot he got a draw in Japan vs. a Japanese fighter. I have a feeling this could be a decent fight.
 
Juan Francisco Estrada has signed with Eddie Hearn and will exclusively be on DAZN now. He has a title defense in August and then I'm assuming a unification fight or Nietes at the end of the year. Future would more than likely include a rubber match with Sor Rungvisai too. Perhaps the potential for a fight with Yafai in England maybe next year. He's got a great line-up potentially.
 
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