The RedCafe Boxing Thread

redwhiteblack said:
if you spar with heavies, and you're a middleweight, and you've never gone down, get better sparring partners.

unless of course, you're the reincarnation of Jake Lamotta or Marvelous Marv' (which, without meaning to offend, i highly doubt).
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the people i spar have been boxing or years yesterday i got rocked by a 27 year old polish guy but thats it, i would like to think its a testament to myself being able to take a punch rather than them being poor
 
Floyd Sr. makes it clear Jr gets the nod over Hatton

A few days ago, Ricky Hatton made it known that he still craves for a rematch with Floyd Mayweather Jr. He faces current pound-for-pound king Manny Pacquiao on May 2 at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Hatton is banking that a possible win over Pacquiao will bring him a chance to avenge his December 07 knockout loss to Mayweather.

Last year, Hatton hired a new trainer, who happened to be Floyd Mayweather Sr. - the father of the younger Mayweather. For years the relationship between Floyd Sr. and his son was very strained. At one point he was willing to go against his own son by training Oscar De La Hoya and Hatton to beat him.

Recently Floyd Sr. informed Hatton that he patched things up with his son and the two were on actual speaking terms. If Hatton gets himself in position to fight a rematch with Mayweather, he won't have the support or the training help of Floyd Sr.

"He did say that he is back talking to Floyd Jr. now and obviously if a rematch comes off he can't train me for that one. I told him he didn't even have to explain himself. I said it was totally understandable. You can't expect him to go in the corner against his own son," Hatton told Sportinglife.

"It would be a shame if he (Mayweather Jr.) stayed retired. I would rather [fight him and] him knock me out again. I'm not looking past Pacquiao but as far as dreams in terms of what I want to do finishing my career I've got this nagging feeling in my head that I want to put the record straight."
 
If Hatton gets passed Pacquiao it's his right to want to face Floyd again. I would like to see it myself as long as its not Cortez again, maybe Hubert Earle or Kenny Bayless and see Hatton in a fairly contested scrap, although I still think the step up is too much for him and Floyd is just the better fighter.
 
kenny bayless is the exact ref that popped into my head as well, he lets shit flow but wont take no nonsense and its not like either will give him cause to get involved
 
there's no way Cortez should ever be given another huge ppv fight after the last Hatton/Mayweather fight.

every time Hatton got inside for the first 5 rounds Cortez would separate them (not that they were even clinching 90% of the time!), leaving Hatton to get back inside against, imo, the best defensive technician of our generation.

Ricky was outclassed, but those first 5 rounds really took their toll, and effectively sewed the story of the fight up.
 
redwhiteblack said:
there's no way Cortez should ever be given another huge ppv fight after the last Hatton/Mayweather fight.

every time Hatton got inside for the first 5 rounds Cortez would separate them (not that they were even clinching 90% of the time!), leaving Hatton to get back inside against, imo, the best defensive technician of our generation.

Ricky was outclassed, but those first 5 rounds really took their toll, and effectively sewed the story of the fight up.
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Agree, you could tell Ricky got frustrated and then went looking and Floyd just cut him down. If the fight was officiated correctly then I think Ricky would have gone the distance but ultimately still would have lost. Next time around though I think Hatton would make it a fighters fight instead, just got the small obstacle of Pac-Man to get by first :lol:
 
Its true Cortez and Mayweather both frustrated him and after he had the point deducted, he opened up instead of boxing started looking for a kayo.

I was going to ask that next, best defensive boxer YOU have seen (so everyone doesnt immediately say Willie Pep)
I would go with in roughly this order
Sweet Pea Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather
Ivan Calderon
 
Floyd Mayweather for me personally, the guy is just so hard to hit full on and most of the punches thrown just glance off of him at angles which ultimatley takes its toll on his opponent. I love his style of defense.

B-Hop in his prime was awesome too mind, but Jr shades it for me because he looks good doing it too.
 
Floyd Mayweather is the best defensive boxer for me. He is quick on his feet, forcing boxers to miss with his movement. Like Leg-end said turn a lot of his opponents punches into glancing blows with his movement etc. He also good at pawing them off and hit a counter.
 
I have never watched a Pernell Whitaker fight. Damn that boy can move.
 
CLK_FPC said:
Its true Cortez and Mayweather both frustrated him and after he had the point deducted, he opened up instead of boxing started looking for a kayo.

I was going to ask that next, best defensive boxer YOU have seen (so everyone doesnt immediately say Willie Pep)
I would go with in roughly this order
Sweet Pea Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather
Ivan Calderon
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that's my pick.

even though he's not in the same bracket of silky shoulder rolls and flawless head movement/footwork, surely avoiding defeat throughout an entire career must make one a defensive great? so Calzaghe and Marciano could arguably go in there?

i'm interested to see if anyone thinks that's a fair call.
 
Not at all you can take a pasting and then get a lucky one punch kayo every fight lol.

Calzaghe is open to a good right hand if you watch Hopkins and Jones both caught him with it
 
CLK_FPC said:
Its true Cortez and Mayweather both frustrated him and after he had the point deducted, he opened up instead of boxing started looking for a kayo.

I was going to ask that next, best defensive boxer YOU have seen (so everyone doesnt immediately say Willie Pep)
I would go with in roughly this order
Sweet Pea Pernell Whitaker
Floyd Mayweather
Ivan Calderon
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As well as the ones you've mentioned, Roy Jones Jr was almost unhittable in his prime, although that was down to superhuman reflexes more than traditional defensive skills. Hopkins has a very crafty defense, and James Toney did some great work defensively. He was hittable, but very rarely got caught flush when he was on form. His performance against Jirov was astounding - for an old, fat and seemingly washed up super-middleweight to fight off the ropes against a murderous, volume punching cruiserweight like Vassily Jirov should have been suicide, but his defensive skills, counterpunching and chin wore him down and won Toney the fight.

He's not on the level of those guys and I hated watching him fight but Winky Wright had one of the more effective defenses I've seen lately. Very high guard, caught most punches with his gloves.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
As well as the ones you've mentioned, Roy Jones Jr was almost unhittable in his prime, although that was down to superhuman reflexes more than traditional defensive skills. Hopkins has a very crafty defense, and James Toney did some great work defensively. He was hittable, but very rarely got caught flush when he was on form. His performance against Jirov was astounding - for an old, fat and seemingly washed up super-middleweight to fight off the ropes against a murderous, volume punching cruiserweight like Vassily Jirov should have been suicide, but his defensive skills, counterpunching and chin wore him down and won Toney the fight.

He's not on the level of those guys and I hated watching him fight but Winky Wright had one of the more effective defenses I've seen lately. Very high guard, caught most punches with his gloves.
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Toney's punch rolling was legendary! almost turns his back completely at times. always with that hustler smirk on his face.

Jones Jr was highly elusive due to his freak reflexes. but, we've all seen what's happened since they slowed down...

i wouldn't put him in with the all time defensive greats.
 
CLK_FPC said:
Not at all you can take a pasting and then get a lucky one punch kayo every fight lol.

Calzaghe is open to a good right hand if you watch Hopkins and Jones both caught him with it
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of course, but not for 46 fights!

i think undefeated fighters must get a nod when talking about great defences.
 
redwhiteblack said:
of course, but not for 46 fights!

i think undefeated fighters must get a nod when talking about great defences.
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The little I've seen of Marciano supports what I've read - that he took alot of punches and relied on his incredible chin and toughness rather than any defensive nous.

Calzaghe has a good defense but he gets hit too often to call it great. Its more a style thing than a lack of skill imo - he wins his fights by swarming his opponents, and he's willing to take some punches because he'll almost always outland his opponent in any exchange.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
As well as the ones you've mentioned, Roy Jones Jr was almost unhittable in his prime, although that was down to superhuman reflexes more than traditional defensive skills. Hopkins has a very crafty defense, and James Toney did some great work defensively. He was hittable, but very rarely got caught flush when he was on form. His performance against Jirov was astounding - for an old, fat and seemingly washed up super-middleweight to fight off the ropes against a murderous, volume punching cruiserweight like Vassily Jirov should have been suicide, but his defensive skills, counterpunching and chin wore him down and won Toney the fight.

He's not on the level of those guys and I hated watching him fight but Winky Wright had one of the more effective defenses I've seen lately. Very high guard, caught most punches with his gloves.
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Forgot winky Wright great defence. Long arms that cover his upper body. when he goes into the shell hard to hit plus his jab is part of jis defence as well keepspeople at bay with it.

redwhiteblack said:
Toney's punch rolling was legendary! almost turns his back completely at times. always with that hustler smirk on his face.

Jones Jr was highly elusive due to his freak reflexes. but, we've all seen what's happened since they slowed down...

i wouldn't put him in with the all time defensive greats.
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If you want to see great James Toney watch his fight with Iran Barkley his roll was nuts that night, then the interview after only added to his legend lol

Pat_Mustard said:
The little I've seen of Marciano supports what I've read - that he took alot of punches and relied on his incredible chin and toughness rather than any defensive nous.

Calzaghe has a good defense but he gets hit too often to call it great. Its more a style thing than a lack of skill imo - he wins his fights by swarming his opponents, and he's willing to take some punches because he'll almost always outland his opponent in any exchange.
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His fight with Ezzard Charles is a good example almost TKO'D had his nose split but came back to KO charles.
And Calslappy (Im sorry I had to) has taken the notion the best form of defence is attack and ran with it continuously throwing and landing, even though many of his punches are with the inside of the glove and therefore should not be scoring punches
 
He makes me laugh, he is off his head. Fair play to Mihir Bose for continuing the questions.

Mayweather loses style points by hanging around with Ray-J though if you ask me.
 
redwhiteblack said:
Toney's punch rolling was legendary! almost turns his back completely at times. always with that hustler smirk on his face.

Jones Jr was highly elusive due to his freak reflexes. but, we've all seen what's happened since they slowed down...

i wouldn't put him in with the all time defensive greats.
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I do consider him an all-time great defensively simply because he took so few punches in his prime, but there's no denying that his disregard for traditional skills caught up with him badly in the end.

Good to see that I'm not the only one that appreciates Toney. Joel Casamayor was another modern fighter with some good, sneaky defensive moves. A dirty cnut of a fighter, but he fought very effectively against stronger, harder punching opponents.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
I do consider him an all-time great defensively simply because he took so few punches in his prime, but there's no denying that his disregard for traditional skills caught up with him badly in the end.

Good to see that I'm not the only one that appreciates Toney. Joel Casamayor was another modern fighter with some good, sneaky defensive moves. A dirty cnut of a fighter, but he fought very effectively against stronger, harder punching opponents.
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Until he met JMM, never in a million years would I have guessed Marquez would knock him out
 
CLK_FPC said:
Vic Darchinyan vs Jorge Arce on saturday as well Vic is one of if not the best Super Flyweight and really isnt a fan of Arce
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:lol:

Great video. I hope Darchinyan wins. I love brawlers, especially big punching ones. Speaking of which, has anyone heard anything about Michael Katsidis lately? He immediately became one of my favourite fighters after the Graham Earl fight. Gutted when he lost to Casamayor and Juan Diaz.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
:lol:

Great video. I hope Darchinyan wins. I love brawlers, especially big punching ones. Speaking of which, has anyone heard anything about Michael Katsidis lately? He immediately became one of my favourite fighters after the Graham Earl fight. Gutted when he lost to Casamayor and Juan Diaz.
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i think i saw him get ktfo against Carl Cat Thompson. might be thinking of someone else though. CLK will know, i'm too lazy to wiki it right now.
 
Despite suffering a bad cut in Saturday night's bout against Freudis Rojas in Jalisco, Mexico, former three-division champion Marco Antonio Barrera plans to move forward with his bout against Amir Khan on March 14 at the MEN Arena in Manchester. Rojas, a late replacement with a record of 1-7, struck Barrera with a missile-like head shot that opened up a cut above Barrera's left eye in the third round. The ringside doctor felt the cut was too severe to allow the fight to continue and stopped the contest. The ref disqualified Rojas.


There was a lot of talk backstage that Barrera would not be able to have a proper training camp for the bout with Khan, but promoters Frank Warren and Don King have discussed the situation and the fight will still proceed on the 3/14 without any postponement.

“Frank has spoken to Don King and the fight will definitely go ahead. Frank was told it was a gash above the eye, but Barrera will still be able to fight Khan,” a spokesman for Khan’s promoter Warren told The Daily Star.

More than 15,000 tickets have already been sold for the Barrera-Khan showdown.
 
CLK_FPC said:
he also got blown away by casamayor people are calling him the new Gatti but Im not so sure why.
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He was very close to stopping Casamayor. Sadly it looks like he doesn't have the world class chin needed to get away with his no defence whatsoever style. He makes for fantastic fights though and he's as brave as they come. That's where the Gatti comparisons come from.
 
I get the fact that he has no defence but for some reason I don't find him interesting, I wasn't enthralled by his Diaz fight either.

The same weight i walk around with is the same weight i carry in ring i cant put on weight lol
we were talking about this today, my trainer and one polish guy i was sparring with thought i was a light heavy they were shocked as feck to learn i weigh 73kg.
 
I did not realise Khan has had 20 fights already. I am glad this is still going ahead though, this is almost make or break for Khan even at his age.
 
CLK_FPC said:
I get the fact that he has no defence but for some reason I don't find him interesting, I wasn't enthralled by his Diaz fight either.

The same weight i walk around with is the same weight i carry in ring i cant put on weight lol
we were talking about this today, my trainer and one polish guy i was sparring with thought i was a light heavy they were shocked as feck to learn i weigh 73kg.
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73kg! :eek:

I'm about 90kg and you look at least as big as me. Although in fairness I'm a slightly rotund powerlifter and kebab lover.

I'm a sucker for brawlers in fairness which is why I like Katsidis so much. The sensible part of me guessed he'd struggle at the highest level because he takes so much punishment even against the Graham Earls of this world.
 
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