The Reality Draft: Round 1 - harms vs Joga Bonito

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

vs

...........................Team harms ................................................................................................... Team Joga Bonito........................

Team harms


Player profiles

My team is all about balance. It has a hardworking and creative core in Stielike-Bonhof-Falcao-Bergkamp, and absolutely devastating and pacey flanks in Roberto Carlos, Blokhin, Ortiz and Kaltz. Commanding presence of Ruggeri and Stielike would help Varane settle in nicely. All my players are in their preferable positions, so nothing will stop them from performing at their best level.

Key points about my team:
Stielike would play a crucial part in my set up. He is playing in his best role, allowing my fullbacks to roam forward without a second thought. This role requires a player with a perfect understanding of the game, otherwise the whole defensive formation can turn into havoc - luckily, I have just the one in Stielike. He is reunited with Rainer Bonhof here, with whom he won 3 Bundesliga titles in the 70's, which certainly helps.

Creative center in Falcao-Bergkamp. Unbelievable duo - technical brilliance, vision and passing ability, they would enjoy playing together, with all these little flicks and 1-touch play. Bonhof, who assisted for Gerd Muller's winning ball in WC 74 and provided 4 assists in semi-final and final of 76 Euro's, would certainly help too - though it won't be his first priority.

Pace, skill and directness - my flanks are frightening. Roberto Carlos and Blokhin is fit enough to run on a track, the Ortiz and Kaltz aren't out-of-this-world fast, but still is more than capable of beating their fullback. Ortiz (please, read the write-up if you don't know who am I talking about) won't leave his opponent alone with his endless efforts of beating his player 1-on-1, and Kaltz would provide his famous Bananenflankens (banana-shaped crosses).

Long distance threat. Blokhin, Falcao, Stielike, Kaltz and Ortiz all had a good shot on them, and Bergkamp perfected the perfectly-timed long-distance lobs, which Rooney now tries to imitate so desperately, but the main threat here are Roberto Carlos and Rainer Bonhof. Who had the hardest shot in the history of football? These two are genuine contenders. We will ask poor Zenga after the game.

Tactics:
I believe that I will dominate the game here, I have a perfect mix in the middle and I don't see how Joga can stop Falcao and Bergkamp from doing their magic. Control the ball, provide through-balls to Blokhin and Ortiz - my team will score if my opponent will shut down, due to my exceptional long-distance shooters, and great and various dribblers in my front three, and my team will punish opponents with an absolutely deadly counter-attacks.

The main threat for me is, apart from the mighty Baggio, Cafu-Figo duo. Carlos and Blokhin will keep them busy half of the time (Figo was good at tracking back, actually, but he would find it hard to keep up the pace), and the other half they would find Bonhof (who was asked to mark the great Muller out of the game on a numerous occasions) and Ruggeri in his World Cup winning position providing cover for my left flank.

Two great liabilities in Joga's team are Bernat and Keown.
The first one is, in my opinion, the weakest player from the youth round, and isn't up for the task of stopping the best Colombian player ever (who is helped by one of the best attacking fullbacks that Germany ever produced). He isn't a bad player, just another one of Valencia's converted wingers - he will become a very good player, no doubt about that, but his "peak" isn't comparable to others. My guess is that Lerby will be instructed to help him, which nullifies all the attacking threat from Joga's left flank and frees space for Falcao - and I'm not even sure that this would be enough to contain Ortiz-Kaltz.
But why Keown is a liability, you would ask me? Well, let's hear what his long-term partner and captain said has to said about it:

Adams:

I was… [clenches fist, makes war face, bangs forehead] WOOO-Aaarr! I would be that kind of pumped up. The adrenaline going. Motivation! Martin [Keown] was like that as well, but he didn’t calm down. He needed to calm down. Oh God, the number of penalties Martin gave away down the years with his impetuous tackles!

He is up against three man that made their name by fooling the defenders, he would lose his temper and would for sure go for another one of his "impetuous tackle" after Blokhin/Bergkamp/Ortiz's dummy or stepover.

And, for the desert, a quote about Weah for a further discussion

antohan:

As good a player as he was, he was no goal machine. In his best seasons he average about 12 goals in Serie A while the Serie A top scorers (the likes of Batistuta, Inzaghi, Bierhoff and Montella) averaged twice as many.

My notes is on the imaginary opposition though, maybe Joga will surprise me here.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Team Joga Bonito

Spoiler: Additional info

The 3-5-2 formation is a hard formation to execute with plenty of intricacies involved. However, if executed successfully, with the suitable personnel and tactics, it is well worth the hassle. One might even get the feeling of watching the team playing with an extra man on the pitch at times with this formation. This formation offers defensive solidity, ball retention capabilities, counter-attacking threat and offensive brilliance as well. Many mistakenly think this formation is too defensive and is boring with too many defenders. Although that could very well happen if the players are ill-suited this formation or if it is executed wrongly. I will outline the quintessential factors which are needed for this set-up to
function to its maximum potential which will also provide insight into my tactics.



Service from the deep

You could have Messi, Maradona and Pele as your front trio but if they don't get ample service from deep, then they are going to do jackshit. There is only so much you can rely on individual brilliance and that isn't what this set-up is geared towards anyway. It rather relies on cohesion and teamwork whilst serving to amplify individual brilliance rather than depending on it. You don't want your forwards frequently dropping deep to get the ball and be away from areas from which they can be dangerous.

By service I mean quality passing and good driving runs from deep to support the offense. Koeman is one of the best passing sweepers in the history of the game and has a passing range of a playmaker. Sanchis is a brilliant passer as well and can actively contribute to build ups. De Rossi and Lerby in midfield are great incisive passers of the ball, they may be no Pirlo or Xavi but their passing is excellent and underrated to say the least. Box-to-box midfielders stereotypically get associated with terms/phrases such as 'covers every blade of grass', 'tough tackling', 'commanding', 'destroyers' etc whilst their more subtle passing and technical qualities, unfortunately go largely unnoticed. Both these players would have probably received more plaudits for their passing and technique if they weren't such combative, dynamic and physical midfielders imo.



Ability to transition to different phases

Vital to have multi-faceted players who can perform multiple roles fluidly and are tactically intelligent. Koeman is solid at the back organising things and sweeping up thing effectively whilst also being able to play out the ball from the back after regaining possession. The likes of Sanchis, Lerby and De Rossi are also equally capable of being ball winners and passing/driving the ball forward. Cafu and Bernat are able to contribute to the defensive phase of the game with their incessant hassling and workrate whilst seamlessly transitioning into the offensive phase by driving forward after regaining the ball. These players combined with the pacy front trio give my team a genuine counter-attacking threat and also gives my team a nice balance between offense and defense with so many all-round players.


Ability to stretch play

Opponents naturally tend to crowd their midfield by making it narrower and/or employ man-marking/closing down tactics on forwards to stifle play, restrict passing avenues and to prevent fluid interplay. Thus, it's necessary to have players who can stretch play with their sheer pace and/or their direct dynamic marauding style to create space and pull opponents out of position. Otherwise, play can become static and attacks will be stagnating (think of United the first few games).


Cafu and Bernat are extremely adventurous, pacy and technically gifted wing-backs who are good enough offensively to play as wingers and in fact started their careers as wingers. They are more than capable of providing width and pace down the wings and channels. Lerby and De Rossi are proper dynamos who can provide powerful driving runs forward when the situation requires it.

Figo and Baggio are magical dribblers and manipulators of the ball who can operate in the tightest of spaces. Their pace combined with their skills, deft touches and dribbling will make it a nightmare for the most stringent of man marking defenders. Weah was a truly brilliant complete forward who is a thorn in any defense with his ridiculous pace, power, dribbling and hold-up play. If these players can't stretch defenses then I don't know who else will.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Team Joga Bonito - Contd...

DEFENSE
In the centre I have Koeman playing the role of a sweeper, organising the defense and carrying the ball forward at times. Koeman is a genuine goal threat with his phenomenal long range shooting and set-piece prowess as well. He is also tasked with keeping things ticking along, playing long passes to forwards and initiating counter-attacks. Manuel Sanchis also shares some of the metronomic and creative burden with Koeman whilst being primarily an intelligent ball-winner. Sanchis is a ball playing defender who is a tenacious born leader who is also an influential rock at the back. One of the finest centre-backs Spain has ever produced, he was at ease playing as a sweeper, stopper and midfielder which only highlights his all-round game. Keown is charged with being the old-fashioned aggressive stopper who will be tasked with stopping forwards in their track and nipping promising attacks in the bud. Cafu, Keown, Koeman and Sanchis were captains/captain material and would truly form a impassable terrain in front of the goal with their sheer defensive prowess and mental fortitude.

WING BACKS
Cafu and Bernat would provide excellent workrate, width, hassling and marshalling of the flanks. They are required to contribute to both the defensive and offensive sides of the game which they more than capable of with their brilliant stamina. They might be no Zanetti or Maldini when it comes to the defensive side of the game but it is key to remember that they are wing-backs and not full-backs. As such they have different responsibilities with more emphasis on their workrate, stamina, dribbling, crossing, pace, over-lapping runs and on their offensive aspects rather than their defensive aspects which suits them to a tee. They will also get more room with opponents typically narrowing their system and crowding the centre.


MIDFIELD
This is a key area which needs to effectively bridge defense and attack. As such I needed tactically intelligent players who can function as aggressive ball-winners whilst also being able to contribute to the attack with good passing, long-range shooting and driving forward runs without necessarily being gung-ho. This naturally ruled out most midfielders such as Guardiola, Toure, valderamma and Albertini who couldn't really function in a midfield duo. Thus, I went with De Rossi and Lerby who are amongst the finest box-to-box to midfielders of their generation, capable of providing a dominating presence in the midfield with their all-round play and unyielding personalities. Tackling, marking, stamina, athleticism, tenacity, technique, thunderous long-rangers, passing, leadership, organisational skills and positioning. They simply had it all as midfielders and could dominate any midfield battles.



FORWARDS
A magical fluid forward line who at their peak were best players in the world and capable of tearing apart defenses single-handedly. These 3 Balon D'oR and FIFA World Player Of The Year winners offer the perfect blend of pace, technique, trickery, directness, unpredictability, vision, physicality, dribbling and goals. Figo and Baggio have the freedom to roam and find pockets of space with their intelligent movement, making it impossible to man mark them without drawing defenders out of position. They also need to go wide when needed, to support the wing-backs and make darting forward runs to create space for others or to finish off moves as well. The talismanic Figo and Baggio have the flair, dribbling and vision to unlock the tightest of defenses so creativity won't be a problem. Figo and Baggio were players who thrived when they were the key players of the side and this setup would certainly allow them to shine. These 3 players generally have a free role bar Weah who has a bit of a positional responsibility and has to spearhead the attack. He can roam and drop deep when he sees fit though. He is tasked with providing physicality,aerial threat, runs behind defense and hold-up play when required and also combine with Figo and Baggio when necessary. A powerful, explosive and complete forward to be the focal point of this team.

harms has formed a tremendous team which looks brilliant to say the least. So kudos to him. I just have a few debatable points I would like to highlight.

-Blokhin and Oritz and extremely pacy players who can trouble any defense on their day. However, I feel their effectiveness will diminish when they don't have plenty of space to manoeuvre in. Facing the deep lined defensive trio of Koeman, Sanchis and Keown is no easy task and they will find it really tough here.

-Bergkamp is quite simply a genius on the ball but once again he won't have the space to thrive in and display his supreme vision. It's not like he will struggle but he will find it tougher under tighter spaces and intense attention from my trio of defenders and midfield duo occasionally.

-My forward trio is more balanced and better equipped at beating his defense than his forward line imo.

-Falcao and Bonhof are illustrious and great players but I feel my more combative workaholic midfield duo would be able to come out on top of this battle. Imo Lerby and De Rossi are better defensively and his midfield duo would find it tough to win this intense midfield battle.

-Roberto Carlos vs Cafu promises to be a mouth-watering prospect. I will give Roberto Carlos the offensive edge here. He was capable of manning the flank single-handedly and would provide penetration and attacking capabilities. I do have the indefatigable Marcos Cafu who is more than capable of covering Carlos and keeping him under wraps. On the flipside, Roberto Carlos tends to be caught out of position further forward more often than not, something which Cafu would be able to capitalize on better than Roberto Carlos.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Team Joga Bonito - Player Profiles

Spoiler: Player profiles

Click on player's names for compilations

WALTER ZENGA - Known as 'Spiderman' for his unbelievable agility and reflexes, he was a legendary keeper for Inter and Italy. Set a record of five consecutive clean sheets, and a total of 518 minutes without conceding a goal in the World Cup 1990. A 3 time IFFHS World's Best Goalkeeper, UEFA and Serie A Footballer of the Year award winner as well.

RONALD KOEMAN - One of the leaders of the Barcelona dream side under Cruyff,who are rightly hailed as one of the most aesthetic sides ever. 'Tintin' is the highest scoring defender in the history of the game and had a goalscoring record a forward would envy. He was rather underrated defensively and his ability to marshal and lead from the back rather went unappreciated in light of his supreme vision and technical abilities. Renowned for his long-rangers and sublime free-kicks, he scored in 2 European cup finals and finished as Champions league top goalscorer 93/94 whilst also scoring 21 league goals in one season alone for PSV. Won countless trophies and was truly a legend of the game. A controversial character, he once wiped his arse with Olaf Thon's shirt after the semi-finals of the Euro 1988 which he went on to win.

MANUEL SANCHIS - A born and bred Madrista, 'Manolo' came through the youth system of Real before going on to make 710 appearances. He followed in the footsteps of his father who had already played for the Los Blancos and is one of only three father-son pairs who have won the European Cup/Championships League. A charismatic leader, one-man club Sanchis was the captain of Real for a cool 13 years and won numerous trophies for them including 2 Champions leagues and 8 la ligas. Only Raul has made more appearances than this legend who in his 16 years at the club, only appeared in less than 30 matches in three seasons. One of the finest defenders Spain has ever produced. Never quite got the recognition he deserved with flashier/attacking players of his batch such as Butragueno and Michel getting the plaudits.

MARTIN KEOWN - Truly underrated and an indomitable classic no-nonsense stopper. An integral part of George Graham's brilliant English defensive backline of the early nineties and a prominent figure, alongside Tony Adams, of the successful Wenger sides as well. Getting into those immensely successful and brilliant Arsenal sides and gaining 43 caps for England as a centre back in that particular era, was no easy feat and is a testament to his understated quality. He was probably the best English player at EURO 2000 and was a fan favourite with his dominating displays. An epitome of physical domination and mental fortitude for Arsenal, he made 449 appearances for them and he was one of the club's greatest defenders ever.

CAFU - This Brazilian Flanagan needs no introduction and has a legitimate claim to being the best right back ever to grace the game. The 'Express Train' is the most capped player for Brazil and leaves a unrivalled legacy behind. The indefatigable marauder on the right flank is the only player ever to appear in 3 WC finals whilst winning 2 of them and also boasts winning the most WC matches(15) ever. A legend for Roma and Milan he has won 21 trophies at club level as well. Fergie even once jokingly queried if Cafu had two hearts, such was his ability to keep on running up and down the flanks without getting tired.

JUAN BERNAT - 21 year old wing-back who has tremendous potential and is a fine young player. Good enough to start for reigning champions Bayern Munich as a left wing back, he is one of the best young wing-backs in the game right now. Had a breakout season for Valencia in 13/14 where he made 49 appearances for the first team and was an excellent performer. The next top youth prospect to come out of the famed Valencia academy which spawned the likes of Silva, Alba and Mata in recent years. A willing runner and an extremely adventurous wing-back, he is only going to get better under Guardiola at Bayern and is one to look out for.

DANIELE DE ROSSI - The Roman Gladiator is a fierce competitor and an immense player who is one of the finest midfielders of his generation. Currently the highest paid player in the Serie A, he is a one-man club who is revered by Romans as a true Giallorossi legend. He resisted the advances of Real, United, City, Inter and many more to stay at his beloved Roma. He was as complete as midfielders came and he combined tenacity and charisma with technique, vision and tactical intelligence. Has won the World Cup with Italy and has been capped 99 times whilst also appearing 332 times for AS Roma. The fact that he inherited the No 10 shirt for Italy after Totti's retirement shows his status and value within the Italy squad. Made headlines for his genuine exhibition of fair play in 2006 when he told the ref he handled the ball for his goal when Roma were trailing 0-1. They went on to win 2-1.

SOREN LERBY - Søren Lerby was at the height of his powers in 1986, representing a terrifying cocktail of an impressive psyche, footballing ability and a will to win bordering on the brink of insanity. With this man you could count on every last inch of blood being sacrificed for the sake of the victory. Nothing was more important. And if the team mates wouldn't follow him to the end and obey his every order as the leader he was born to be, they might as well just feck off for all he cared. A strutting ego of pride and determination encapsulated this midfield Viking who never backed down for anyone. Playing without shin pads as it was still possible in the 80's, he would come charging into anyone who would stand in his way to the final victory. I mean how many players play two competitive matches in one day? During a qualifying match against Ireland on 13 November 1985, Lerby left in the 58th minute as he had to catch a private jet to fly back to Germany to play, as a substitute, for Bayern in a cup match on the same day Need someone who was willing to tear out your spinal cord, eat your liver and feast on your soul in order to win a game? Look no further. Soren Lerby was quite simply the embodiment of winning attitude.

It says it all really that when Bayern Munich in 1983 were looking for a replacement for their captain and leader trotting off to Real Madrid, the fearsome Paul Breitner, the choice to be the new engine and Kampfschwein in the German club's central midfield fell on Lerby. Truly a sign upon which to mark how fearsome qualities the Danish midfielder possessed to be chosen as Bayern Munich's leading man, even more so at a time when foreigners in domestic leagues still were a rarity and especially the Germans still held their homegrown players in higher regard when it came to selecting players for a team's most vital leading positions. But for three years, Lerby dominated the Bundesliga from his role as midfield instigator with the South German giants. Never ever giving up an inch of the field. It was his to command, and only his. Confront this Great Dane at your peril.

LUIS FIGO - A Seleccao great and the world's best player at his peak. The 'Lion King' was a irresistible player who could repeatedly confound opponents with his phenomenal repertoire of dribbling skills and array of flicks and tricks. His vision and passing ability combined with his directness and charisma were unrivalled and was truly a global phenomenon at his peak, 1997-2001. Once the world's most expensive player, he went on to win 4 la liga, 4 Serie A, 1 Champions league and plenty of domestic trophies as well. At the international stage, he was the captain of the 'Golden Generation' team which went to the semi-finals of Euro 2000 and WC 2006 whilst also leading them to the final of Euro 2004.

 

[harms]

My quotes aren't visible, @Edgar Allan Pillow

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Spoiler: Player Profiles - Contd...

ROBERTO BAGGIO - So much talent. So few actual trophies to show for it.

To an extent, the 'Divine Ponytail's problem was timing. Despite proving himself one of the most prolific Italian penalty-makers, for example, he went and missed the most infamous spot-kick in the country’s history. Shortly after that, he fell out with Marcello Lippi just as Juventus embarked on the most successful era in their history. And he then joined Milan in 1995 just as theirs was coming to an end.

If Baggio didn’t exactly lift many trophies, however, he did lift a lot of spirits. Not least at USA 94. In effect, Baggio dragged Italy to the final. He scored the last-minute equaliser against Nigeria in the last-16, the late quarter-final winner against Spain and then tore Bulgaria apart in the semi-finals. In terms of match-winning influence in latter-stage games, there have been very few players who have matched Baggio’s in that World Cup. It remains one of the competition’s great individual displays, whatever followed in the final.

The dribbling ability, technique and vision he possessed bordered on obscene and were outrageous to say the least. Baggio was an artista on the pitch and had the ruthless efficiency to go with it. He was equally at home racking up assists and slotting the ball into the net. In the 452 Serie A matches he played, he scored 205 goals and 118 assists which is frankly ridiculous for a Second Striker/Playmaker. Of the 205 goals 96 were decisive, meaning that they were either equalisers or match winners. He also scored the most goals for Italy in the World Cup as well and is the only Italian to score in 3 WCs.

Roberto Baggio is considered one of Italy's greatest and most beloved players of all time. Gianni Brera, a famous Italian sports writer who had seen both the Italian Legends Giuseppe Meazza and Gianni Rivera play, stated that Baggio was the best and most talented Italian player he had ever seen.

GEORGE WEAH - The best African player of all time. Weah has the unprecedented feat of winning a Balon d'Or, African Player of the Year and FIFA World Player Of The Year in 1995. At his peak he was the complete forward who could score some truly mind-boggling spectacular goals. Renowned for his exceptional dribbling ability, technique, heading, athleticism, shooting and work ethic, he was an absolutely glorious footballer at his prime. Many point to his not so impressive goalscoring record but think about how good his all-round game must have been to win those individual accolades and to be acclaimed the best player on the planet. He averaged about 20 goals a season in his prime but brought so much more to the table than just sheer goals. Also awarded the African footballer of the century, no easy task with the likes of Milla and Abedi Pele in contention.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Seem to be something wrong with my laptop. Let me restart...

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

My quotes aren't visible, @Edgar Allan Pillow

Have put it in manually. Laptop's gone all crazy!

 

[harms]

@Joga Bonito voting for my self to see the score.
Good luck!

 

[antohan]

Now I'm getting quoted on posts about stats? Can't you just write them?

 

[harms]

Well, as I stated, the biggest mismatch here is Bernat against Ortiz and Kaltz - he would be simply non-excistant in that game. Therefore, as Lerby is playing in the middle, my right flank is running at Sanchis/Koeman at full speed - at good as Sanchis was, it's a little too much for him, imo - and Koeman isn't a great cover for him as he is defensively questionable (well, he poked Roberto Carlos too).

He decided to play only Cafu from the right, switching Figo to a more central role - his choice, but, then again, the cover for a Brazilian is a rush Keown, who is a liability too, as I stated in the write-up (look for the Adams quote). I have my doubts about Keown's adaptability to a 3-man defense - Varane, for example, played as CB and RB, which gives me a reason to think that he will do ok here, but I don't think that Keown has it in him.

I feel that De Rossi isn't used properly in the box-to-box tole - his best role is an anchor man with a fair playmaking share, but he can't play there because he they would operate in the similar area of the field with Koeman.

Also, I can't see how Bergkamp would struggle to find space while Joga doesn't have a specialized DM on the pitch (at least he isn't playing the one he has as a DM), and only has a sweeper in Koeman, who isn't going to disturb Bergkamp much.

As the main threat in from the center, I think my guys are well-equipped to fought his attacking trio - Bonhof will, as I said earlier, keep an eye on Figo and Stielike would make sure that there isn't any free space in front of my defenders - the role that he is much more equipped to do than Koeman.

 

[harms]

Now I'm getting quoted on posts about stats? Can't you just write them?

No, it wouldn't be that convincing

 

[harms]

And to say that Lerby and De Rossi (who isn't playing in his preferred position) will win the midfield battle over Bonhof (who is less combative and workaholic than De Rossi somehow?) and Falcao (one of the best midfielders ever, and not a luxury [edited, but still not sure that this is the right word] one like Pirlo or Socratis - can it be said about any other midfielder on the pitch?), even if we exclude Koeman and Stielike out of the equation is, well, at least strange for me.

 

[antohan]

Mmmmm... Harms' defence fills me with confidence a lot more. Roberto Carlos vs. Cafú will be an interesting battle but the rest of it harms looks much better.

The midfield pairs are a bit weird, but harms gets brownie points for having someone who can dictate play and run the show there if needed. I miss having Lerby-Falcao Stielike also influences midfield play a lot more than Koeman will (that said, Koeman is probably the best guy joga could have when he will surely be looking at bypassing the midfield altogether).

Upfront joga has more oomph about him at first glance but Blokhin is more dangerous than Figo there, Bergkamp and Baggio both geniuses but Bergkamp probably more in his element in that frontline, and Weah-Ortiz a bit meh AFAIC. Harms is more likely to trouble joga than viceversa though. Varane will need to have the game of his life against Baggio but has great support all around him if beaten. At the other end I agree Kaltz and Ortiz will own that flank more than what will happen in any other, and a banana-cross to Blokhin is the most obvious route to goal on the pitch.

 

[Raees]

Star studded game this.. Carlos v Cafu haha

 

[antohan]

No harms, I don't think lucrative is the right word, but not sure what you mean either.

 

[harms]

No harms, I don't think lucrative is the right word, but not sure what you mean either.

I'm trying to find one.

Oh, it was an association from a phrase "luxury signing/player". Well, a man like Pirlo - who is enormously talented, but needs the whole team to be built around him as he isn't contributes much in defense, for example, and it would be stupid to ask him to

 

[Mani]

Good write up guys.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Well, as I stated, the biggest mismatch here is Bernat against Ortiz and Kaltz - he would be simply non-excistant in that game. Therefore, as Lerby is playing in the middle, my right flank is running at Sanchis/Koeman at full speed - at good as Sanchis was, it's a little too much for him, imo - and Koeman isn't a great cover for him as he is defensively questionable (well, he poked Roberto Carlos too).

You are underrating Sanchis a lot here. He would have been more than capable of handling it. Like I've stated earlier, Bernat might not be the best full back around but as a wing-back he is excellent. He has the industry to not give Kaltz space and time whilst also providing penetration that is crucial and wouldn't be non-existent like you've stated. Koeman was an underrated defender and he largely got credit for his passing/goals whilst his defensive skills went unnoticed. Roberto Carlos on the other hand has the tendency to get caught out of position more often than not being gung-ho. Something you could never accuse Koeman of.

He decided to play only Cafu from the right, switching Figo to a more central role - his choice, but, then again, the cover for a Brazilian is a rush Keown, who is a liability too, as I stated in the write-up (look for the Adams quote). I have my doubts about Keown's adaptability to a 3-man defense - Varane, for example, played as CB and RB, which gives me a reason to think that he will do ok here, but I don't think that Keown has it in him.

I feel that De Rossi isn't used properly in the box-to-box tole - his best role is an anchor man with a fair playmaking share, but he can't play there because he they would operate in the similar area of the field with Koeman.

Figo was always of an attacking midfielder than a winger or a wing-forward. Imo he would be at ease with the role in this team. Keown has the ability to play successfully in a back 3 which he did for England more often than not. Though primarily a centre-back, he was deployed as a defensive midfielder at times for Arsenal when the situation demanded it.

De Rossi in his pomp was more of a box-to-box midfielder than a defensive midfielder. He wasn't exactly an anchor man in his earlier days but he is an anchor man now due to his excellent defensive ability. Heck he can even play as a centre back or a sweeper. In his prime he was as dynamic as any box-to-box midfielder and wasn't a deep lying playmaking anchorman like Busquets/Pirlo/Alonso that you are making him out to be.

If anything Falcao isn't being utilized properly. He would have been more at ease in a midfield trio and playing him in a midfield duo against Lerby and De Rossi wouldn't be ideal. He was defensively competent but his game was about his grace, technique and vision. He was one of the best Brazilian midfielders ever but he wasn't exactly a grafter was he. There was a reason why the Brazilian midfield in 1982 world-cup failed even though it had talents like Socrates and Falcao...

Also, I can't see how Bergkamp would struggle to find space while Joga doesn't have a specialized DM on the pitch (at least he isn't playing the one he has as a DM), and only has a sweeper in Koeman, who isn't going to disturb Bergkamp much.

As the main threat in from the center, I think my guys are well-equipped to fought his attacking trio - Bonhof will, as I said earlier, keep an eye on Figo and Stielike would make sure that there isn't any free space in front of my defenders - the role that he is much more equipped to do than Koeman.

Bergkamp I feel would thrive when he has the space and time on the ball to show his vision and technique. I just feel he wouldn't be at ease against a team with such has such a crowded central set-up. He isn't the most mobile of player and can't always rely on sheer ball-control and technique to create space for himself.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

The old "is Ronald a defensive liability?" debate is clearly on the horizon. Two points: He isn't a defensive liability in any meaningful sense of the term. And he surely becomes even less so in a three-man backline.

I don't buy the argument that X looks out of place in a three-man line simply because he didn't feature in one too often during his playing days. That's historical necessity, not a matter of theoretical suitability (which is what this game is all about). Unless you're stating explicitly that you will operate with a so-and-so defense which will positively emulate a specific historical combination of players with specific roles, you're free to assume that if LVG can make three mediocre feckers perform to a reasonable level, then you can make three very good central defenders do the same. If we're to insist on historical facts there's a great deal we cannot assume - and it would destroy the game, simply put.

 

[antohan]

He was one of the best Brazilian midfielders ever but he wasn't exactly a grafter was he. There was a reason why the Brazilian midfield in 1982 world-cup failed even though it had talents like Socrates and Falcao...

There's all sorts of wrong in this statement. Complete and utter nonsense to imply Falcao was "part of the problem". Shows you never saw that Brazil side sans Falcao, it was horrific and completely shapeless.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Figo was always of an attacking midfielder than a winger or a wing-forward.

Hm. That is debatable, in my opinion.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

There's all sorts of wrong in this statement. Complete and utter nonsense to imply Falcao was "part of the problem". Shows you never saw that Brazil side sans Falcao, it was horrific and completely shapeless.

Aye, true enough. There wasn't much wrong with the old magic square. The weaknesses of the side lay elsewhere, I think most would agree.

Bonhof and Falcao work for me - as such. Bergkamp could even be regarded as part of that midfield, as an AM of sorts - to make it even more plausible. It raises certain other questions, though. I personally think there's something over-killish about both teams in terms of fielding an extra body in defense. A bit too heavy in the arse, is my immediate impression.

 

[Joga Bonito]

There's all sorts of wrong in this statement. Complete and utter nonsense to imply Falcao was "part of the problem". Shows you never saw that Brazil side sans Falcao, it was horrific and completely shapeless.

I am not claiming he was part of the problem. I am just stating that he was a classy elegant player who would have been more suited to a midfield trio than a midfield duo.

 

[Joga Bonito]

@Joga Bonito voting for my self to see the score.
Good luck!

Me too, good luck. May the best team win

 

[2mufc0]

Baggio-Weah-Figo, what a front 3.

 

[antohan]

Bonhof and Falcao work for me - as such. Bergkamp could even be regarded as part of that midfield, as an AM of sorts - to make it even more plausible.

I was a bit puzzled by the Bonhof-Falcao arrangement. I actually had issues throughout the draft trying to work out what harms planned for Bonhof as he was primarily a wingback. Could see him on the right of midfield supporting Kaltz while Falcao would be better suited to the left role, but I suppose his primary concern is covering Carlos. Falcao would be a bit hamstrung having to worry about Carlos' cover so it makes sense if Bonhof is primarily there to do the dirty work. I do wonder why Bonhof specifically, but hey...

It raises certain other questions, though. I personally think there's something over-killish about both teams in terms of fielding an extra body in defense. A bit too heavy in the arse, is my immediate impression.

And that's where I like the setup with Stielike more than the other, he can push up and play as a midfielder, anchoring things alongside Bonhof and further freeing up Falcao.

 

[harms]

You are underrating Sanchis a lot here. He would have been more than capable of handling it. Like I've stated earlier, Bernat might not be the best full back around but as a wing-back he is excellent. He has the industry to not give Kaltz space and time whilst also providing penetration that is crucial and wouldn't be non-existent like you've stated. Koeman was an underrated defender and he largely got credit for his passing/goals whilst his defensive skills went unnoticed. Roberto Carlos on the other hand has the tendency to get caught out of position more often than not being gung-ho. Something you could never accuse Koeman of.

Bergkamp I feel would thrive when he has the space and time on the ball to show his vision and technique. I just feel he wouldn't be at ease against a team with such has such a crowded central set-up. He isn't the most mobile of player and can't always rely on sheer ball-control and technique to create space for himself.

That's the thing - with Bernat as an attacking wing-back, Sanchis is against both Ortiz and Kaltz - and while he was very good player, it's too much - and they're running at him at full speed, this is not a duel in static.

In Koeman - I just feel that you shouldn't use him as an argument to minimize Bergkamp's influence, he surely is capable enough of covering and not looking out of place here. Not a world-beater in the defensive aspect, but very solid. Just that he won't hurt Bergkamp at all.

On a Keown point - I always thought, that LCB and RCB in 3-man formations should be more fast and agile - he would be exposed against Blokhin's pace and dribbling and would make on of his rush tackles - just because this position doesn't really benefit his strengths.


Bergkamp didn't need space, he was a master (on of the best) of creating it. I like this quote, even it isn't from a football expert:
Om David Winner’s analysis of the way in which Dutch football and Dutch culture blend, the sculptor Jeroen Henneman analyzes the effect of Bergkamp’s passes and how he can split a defence:

“It’s a miracle. One moment the pitch is crowded and narrow. Suddenly it is huge and wide.”

His move to a n. 10 position was crucial to his career and a brilliant piece of management by Louie Van Gaal - he exploited the space like no other, he moved astutely between the lines, confusing his opponents and waited for the perfect moment to pick a through-ball or to score himself. As Chester said, he is partly an AM here - and there is a space between your box-to-box's and your center-backs, especially when Koeman needs to help Sanchis with a threat on the left.

 

[antohan]

I am not claiming he was part of the problem. I am just stating that he was a classy elegant player who would have been more suited to a midfield trio than a midfield duo.

Complete midfielders like Falcao are a rarity these days, they didn't need to play in trios. Mind, Stielike makes it a trio of sorts when in possession.

 

[Balu]

I was a bit puzzled by the Bonhof-Falcao arrangement. I actually had issues throughout the draft trying to work out what harms planned for Bonhof as he was primarily a wingback. Could see him on the right of midfield supporting Kaltz while Falcao would be better suited to the left role, but I suppose his primary concern is covering Carlos. Falcao would be a bit hamstrung having to worry about Carlos' cover so it makes sense if Bonhof is primarily there to do the dirty work. I do wonder why Bonhof specifically, but hey...



And that's where I like the setup with Stielike more than the other, he can push up and play as a midfielder, anchoring things alongside Bonhof and further freeing up Falcao.

??? What gave you that impression?

Also, the Stielike, Bonhof, Falcao combination is pretty similar to Gladbach's set-up in the 2nd half of the 70's with Falcao a brilliant upgrade on Wimmer (who's underrated though, brilliant player as well).

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Again Varane on Baggio is a crucial mismatch. With baggio's aptitude to roam all over, I dont think Kaltz ot Stielike would be doing much of support up the field. harms clearly has a better midfield, but again upfront, Blokhin is positioned to the left. Is he playing the Henry role here? I think if he is expected to support the flanks, it will take away much of the bite from your attack and reduce the effectiveness of bergkamp too.

This

The main threat for me is, apart from the mighty Baggio, Cafu-Figo duo. Carlos and Blokhin will keep them busy half of the time (Figo was good at tracking back, actually, but he would find it hard to keep up the pace),

is a very simplistic and an opverly optimistic view imo, If Carlos ever gets caught upfield Figo will score and with Baggio roaming there, there definitely is a goal there for JG. JG's front 3 is way better than harms. Falcao definitely is the best player in the middle and gives the playmaking edge to harms, but then Lerby and Di Rossi have the workrate to negate them to a extent.

 

[harms]

I was a bit puzzled by the Bonhof-Falcao arrangement. I actually had issues throughout the draft trying to work out what harms planned for Bonhof as he was primarily a wingback. Could see him on the right of midfield supporting Kaltz while Falcao would be better suited to the left role, but I suppose his primary concern is covering Carlos. Falcao would be a bit hamstrung having to worry about Carlos' cover so it makes sense if Bonhof is primarily there to do the dirty work. I do wonder why Bonhof specifically, but hey...



And that's where I like the setup with Stielike more than the other, he can push up and play as a midfielder, anchoring things alongside Bonhof and further freeing up Falcao.

Bonhof-Falcao was planned to be the other way, yes, but after the draw I thought that the main threat was from the Cafu/Figo vs Carlos. He played as a DM and CM a lot, all over the pitch, actually, on the left side and on the right. He is better on the right, because he can provide width, but I needed his presence on the left more that I needed his attacking contribution on the right, where it is already a massacre.

You got the idea of how my system was supposed to work, yes.

 

[harms]

Again Varane on Baggio is a crucial mismatch. With baggio's aptitude to roam all over, I dont think Kaltz ot Stielike would be doing much of support up the field. harms clearly has a better midfield, but again upfront, Blokhin is positioned to the left. Is he playing the Henry role here? I think if he is expected to support the flanks, it will take away much of the bite from your attack and reduce the effectiveness of bergkamp too.

This


is a very simplistic and an opverly optimistic view imo, If Carlos ever gets caught upfield Figo will score and with Baggio roaming there, there definitely is a goal there for JG. JG's front 3 is way better than harms. Falcao definitely is the best player in the middle and gives the playmaking edge to harms, but then Lerby and Di Rossi have the workrate to negate them to a extent.

A bit like Henry, yes, or today's Ronaldo - he isn't a winger, I just prefer him to have a more early start. He is definitely a forward, and a main one - he played most of his career like this and I consider this to be his best role. He won't need to contribute much in defensively here, as Figo isn't a winger in Joga's team and I only have Cafu to worry about.

If Carlos ever get caught, I have Bonhof running around, who will be looking after Figo, who was a great man-marker and a much more physical player than Figo and Ruggeri covering the space. Varane won't be against Baggio on his own (it would've been a tragic mismatch indeed), I don't understand why do you think that Stielike and Kaltz won't help him - they will, that's why they are here.

Why is Falcao dealing with Lerby and De Rossi alone? I have Bonhof and Stielike there, while I'm in possession - and, as Balu said, it is based on a very successful and existing set-up.

 

[Joga Bonito]

That's the thing - with Bernat as an attacking wing-back, Sanchis is against both Ortiz and Kaltz - and while he was very good player, it's too much - and they're running at him at full speed, this is not a duel in static.

In Koeman - I just feel that you shouldn't use him as an argument to minimize Bergkamp's influence, he surely is capable enough of covering and not looking out of place here. Not a world-beater in the defensive aspect, but very solid. Just that he won't hurt Bergkamp at all.

On a Keown point - I always thought, that LCB and RCB in 3-man formations should be more fast and agile - he would be exposed against Blokhin's pace and dribbling and would make on of his rush tackles - just because this position doesn't really benefit his strengths.


Bergkamp didn't need space, he was a master (on of the best) of creating it. I like this quote, even it isn't from a football expert:
Om David Winner’s analysis of the way in which Dutch football and Dutch culture blend, the sculptor Jeroen Henneman analyzes the effect of Bergkamp’s passes and how he can split a defence:

“It’s a miracle. One moment the pitch is crowded and narrow. Suddenly it is huge and wide.”

His move to a n. 10 position was crucial to his career and a brilliant piece of management by Louie Van Gaal - he exploited the space like no other, he moved astutely between the lines, confusing his opponents and waited for the perfect moment to pick a through-ball or to score himself. As Chester said, he is partly an AM here - and there is a space between your box-to-box's and your center-backs, especially when Koeman needs to help Sanchis with a threat on the left.

You are heavily ignoring Lerby's and De Rossi's impact on the game. They were top notch when it came to defensive work and shielding the defence arguably better than Bonhof and Falcao IMO.

Firstly, Bernat isn't exactly going to abandon his position and go all gung-ho. He has excellent work-rate and can contribute defensively. He reminds me a lot of Jordi Alba and isn't that easy to go past. Even if you go past him he has terrific recovery pace and can keep pressing Kaltz incessantly and not give him room to deliver his bannaflakens. He is a starter for reigning champions and one of the best teams in the world, Bayern Munich if you forgot that.

Next you have tremendous pace and creativity in your team. Firstly Blokhin and Oritz provide a lot of pace whilst Falcao and Bergkamp ooze class and creativity but you have to see that I have 2 extreme work-horses in De Rossi and Lerby who you are clearly ignoring in most of your points above and 3 excellent defenders. You also have to remember that this is not an open-game and against a deep well-drilled defense of mine, the effect of pace and defense-splitting passes would be negated to a large extent. If anything I really think my forward trio is better and more well-equipped to facing a team with a 3-5-2 than your team. I am struggling to see how you can contain my forward trio here.

 

[harms]

You are heavily ignoring Lerby's and De Rossi's impact on the game. They were top notch when it came to defensive work and shielding the defence arguably better than Bonhof and Falcao IMO.

Firstly, Bernat isn't exactly going to abandon his position and go all gung-ho. He has excellent work-rate and can contribute defensively. He reminds me a lot of Jordi Alba and isn't that easy to go past. Even if you go past him he has terrific recovery pace and can keep pressing Kaltz incessantly and not give him room to deliver his bannaflakens. He is a starter for reigning champions and one of the best teams in the world, Bayern Munich if you forgot that.

He is a starter because he has Alaba behind him, not Sanchis - not that I'm saying that Alaba is a superior player, of course not at the moment, but he is a completely different one.

I don't get how are you playing De Rossi and Lerby then. If you're playing them as a box-to-box midfielders, than you will most certainly have a free space in the middle, that Falcao and Bergkamp would occupy. If you're playing them in a more conservative role, than I will dominate the game completely in the middle - and you are forgetting that I have Bonhof and Carlos, ready to unleash their cannons. Again, if you're playing defensive, than how do you play on getting the ball forward? Cafu's runs and Koeman's long passes from the inside the box? I don't get it, actually.

And they are better at shielding their defense than Bonhof + Falcao. That's why I don't sit back - it's pointless. But the creative gap between them is much bigger.

When I'm defending, I have back five with one relatively weak point in Varane and a DM ahead of them. This isn't enough to beat your front three? And Ortiz and Falcao are around too.

 

[harms]

Baggio-Weah-Figo, what a front 3.

 

[VivaJanuzaj]

Not too sure about Varane's capability to handle Baggio here.
On the other hand, I haven't seen enough of Bernat to judge him here, all I know about him comes from a couple of Bayern games and FM 2014, so it's really hard for me to judge.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I was a bit puzzled by the Bonhof-Falcao arrangement. I actually had issues throughout the draft trying to work out what harms planned for Bonhof as he was primarily a wingback. Could see him on the right of midfield supporting Kaltz while Falcao would be better suited to the left role, but I suppose his primary concern is covering Carlos. Falcao would be a bit hamstrung having to worry about Carlos' cover so it makes sense if Bonhof is primarily there to do the dirty work. I do wonder why Bonhof specifically, but hey...

He played in midfield (as what we'd call a defensive midfielder I reckon) in the '74 team, didn't he? Still, I agree he was first and foremost a wide man - one of those seventies boys who were versatile like that, I suppose. But, yes - if you want a DM first and foremost, why go for Bonhof?

EDIT Saw the explanation. Yes - it makes some sense, I suppose. But it's highly specialized - you couldn't know you'd be up against Cafu, @harms, or any other specific threat on the right?

Point being - why go for Bonhof to begin with considering you also have Carlos? The former is arguably better as a wide man/wing back - and as a DM/CM there were numerous alternatives who arguably would've been more tasty?

 

[harms]

I don't like bad-mouthing a young and promising player, but what's his peak is supposed to be? The one when he managed to score one and assist 2 in 32 games while playing partly a winger and partly an attacking fullback? And he is responsible for the full flank himself, unlike Varane, who isn't playing against Baggio personally, but is covering his zone and has Kaltz, Stielike and Ruggeri to help him out.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Mmmmm... Harms' defence fills me with confidence a lot more. Roberto Carlos vs. Cafú will be an interesting battle but the rest of it harms looks much better.

The midfield pairs are a bit weird, but harms gets brownie points for having someone who can dictate play and run the show there if needed. I miss having Lerby-Falcao Stielike also influences midfield play a lot more than Koeman will (that said, Koeman is probably the best guy joga could have when he will surely be looking at bypassing the midfield altogether).

Upfront joga has more oomph about him at first glance but Blokhin is more dangerous than Figo there, Bergkamp and Baggio both geniuses but Bergkamp probably more in his element in that frontline, and Weah-Ortiz a bit meh AFAIC. Harms is more likely to trouble joga than viceversa though. Varane will need to have the game of his life against Baggio but has great support all around him if beaten. At the other end I agree Kaltz and Ortiz will own that flank more than what will happen in any other, and a banana-cross to Blokhin is the most obvious route to goal on the pitch.

I have already alluded to why I don't have a metronomic passing presence in the midfield in my write-up. I went for the more combative, aggressive and defensively excellent duo of Lerby and De Rossi for a couple of reasons. In Koeman I have a brilliant passer who has the passing range and vision of a playmaker. He can dictate the tempo of the game from deep and can completely change the complexion of the game by completely bypassing the midfield with one great long pass. Sanchis also was a terrific passer who actually capable of playing as a central midfielder and a sweeper which he did later on in his career. Thus, it made more sense to go for some steel, dynamism and dominance in the centre of the park rather than a silky playmaker with decent defensive skills and covering. Lerby and De Rossi were excellent and underrated passers as well who were truly complete as midfielders. Add to the fact that I have the magical Figo and Baggio in front who could drop deep when needed and were sensational passers of the ball. They could also wreak havoc with just the simplest of passes for service mind you.