Cabrini for my money, both in a four or in a back five. Or Lizarazu.
It will probably cost him the game. That said, I suppose he also followed my same logic when looking into him: Viva ending up with Enzo and Kalle behind Romario would be game over.
The Reality Draft: Main Thread (Finals)
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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Cabrini for my money, both in a four or in a back five. Or Lizarazu.
It will probably cost him the game. That said, I suppose he also followed my same logic when looking into him: Viva ending up with Enzo and Kalle behind Romario would be game over.
Cabrini is a very specific pick as he was a left wing back, not a full-back and defensively he was at his best when he got to man mark the right winger. So he requires a certain set up which I don't think VJ could pull of whether he wanted to or not.
Don't think Zanetti is a bad pick, still incredible on the left as he was very comfortable with both feet. Obviously one of the things he has over the others is that he's such a vote winner in almost everybody's eyes. A Briegel/Bossis/Amoros or even a Cabrini aren't as popular.
Don't think Zanetti is a bad pick, still incredible on the left as he was very comfortable with both feet. Obviously one of the things he has over the others is that he's such a vote winner in almost everybody's eyes. A Briegel/Bossis/Amoros or even a Cabrini aren't as popular.
Yeah - I can see the logic in preventing that. Looking at the rosters, they could use a proper midfielder too, so Falcao makes a lot of sense in that regard. They have an abundance of alternatives in the final third - less so in other positions.
I can't see Rodriguez NOT becoming a target and a problem in this match, though - to the extent that I probably would've risked Viva getting Romario myself.
It's the Scirea situation again, ain't it? To me the known and proven best positions of these players aren't the main thing - the latter is a matter of historical systems, which can be highly idiosyncratic, so to speak, such as the Italian model both Scirea and Cabrini excelled in.
It's a bit like saying Keane was at his best in a 4-4-2 partnered with...Scholes. Yes, he was - but as an argument it's a bit irrelevant as there's no reason to believe his skill set wouldn't make him perform at the top of his game in other set-ups as well.
Cabrini's skill set would make him a brilliant player in any sort of system which requires a left sided defender who is also capable of contributing offensively.
Going into the round it was the obvious move, but losing Sammer changed that as it worked out. To cut a long story short on a best case scenario it became a choice between Carlos or Romario for one upgrade position. There are a number of reasons why I decided on Romario - and I think it was the better choice.
Partly it was because it's fecking Romario and how can you turn him down, but really Romario is just a far better player anyway. More importantly he's capable of winning a game of football by himself, Carlos won't do that, and seeing as these games are often so tight a moment of magic from someone like Romario will often decide the game. Then there was the partnership with Rivaldo, which is about as good as you can get. Then there was the fact that only really antohan had a proper winger there to face up against the left back, even without the fact that most teams are moving to a narrow system for this game (to avoid the penalty points).
Then there is the biggest point which is that I don't even see it as a huge, game losing problem. The defence has one young player in it, it's not the biggest deal in reality. Wingers come against 'weaker' fullbacks all the time and don't constantly come away with two goals and an assist, so whilst in terms of these drafts it'll lose some votes because voters take these 'individual battles' to extreme levels, in reality I actually think there's only around a 30% chance one goal would come from some sort of Rodriguez mistake - let alone the farcical three or four some people will try and imagine. Particularly when the rest of the defence is that good and Peter Schmeichel is in goal.
This is certainly true. I didn't consider Rodriguez much of a liability in the QF precisely for this reason - he wasn't up against anyone who would consistently rough him up. And that may hold true for the next match too - certainly.
The problem is obvious, though: IF the voters fixate on him - and they might - he will be regarded as a sore thumb, whether it's fair or not.
Certainly will mate. No illusions about that and I can imagine I'll be banging my head against the wall halfway through the discussions.
Wednesday it is then.
Depends on how Viva plays Savicevic though.
I think you are looking at it back ways. Someone training for and playing in a particular role their entire lives will have skill sets perfectly suited for that specific role. Gentile was officially a full-back, but you can't field him as a full back in a modern formation because all of his attributes were specific to a RCB/CB/LCB role.
Cabrini trained for and played as a left wing back his entire career and his skill set was as a complete left wing back - which is not the same role as playing as a "regular" full back. Cabrini can of course play as a regular full-back - but that was a role not suited for his skill set as he practically never played it. The Keane comparison isn't accurate either it is more like "Keane was good defensively - so I play him as a defensive midfielder".
The issue is not whether he could do the defensive midfielder role, most probably he could. But everybody knows that isn't Keane at his very best, like restricting Cabrini's offense means it isn't Cabrini at his best.
Annah, if Evra can be a leftback in a four then sure as feck Cabrini can.
A wing-back who plied their trade in 1980s Serie A will likely have stronger defensive skills than your typical 2010s winger-masquerading-as-defender full-back.
Agree with Annah on Zanetti - he was immense there early on for Inter.
Agree with Annah on Zanetti - he was immense there early on for Inter.
Of course you can play Cabrini or Evra in a back four. Will they be picked because they are the defensively most sound full back options or because they are great at going forward though? I love Cabrini, but defensively both Argentina and Brazil tore a hole through his side repeatedly and his 1 vs 1 game wasn't nearly as great as a defensively more balanced full back.
Either you can afford Cabrini to push forward like an Evra or a Carlos would do - in which case he's one of the best - or you can't in which case you should go for a defensively more sound option. He's more a Roberto Carlos than a Maldini to put it straight.
Completely disagree. Cabrini was much better defensively than you seemingly give him credit for. I don't get your obsession with the specificity of his role either.
You clearly didn't understand the Keane comparison.
You clearly didn't understand the Keane comparison.
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You are being blinded again by what the players' roles were in the zona mista. Cabrini is no Maldini, but is certainly a much better defender than Roberto Carlos. Sure, there are more defensive options, but I don't think someone with Kohler and Vierchowod as the defensive pair needs one.
Zanetti will do a competent job, but it's ridiculous that we are discussing whether Cabrini could do as good a job as Zanetti, at left back. Absurd.
If Viva doesn't use Rummenigge/Savicevic with Breitner and Reuter to constantly expose Rodriguez in defense, then he's an idiot. Theon/MJJ might not be up against a classic winger, but he's got 4 players who are all brilliant at attacking the space in behind Rodriguez. It's an accident waiting to happen.
Not much to do then. I've watched plenty of full matches of that Juventus and Italy side since this draft started and my conclusion is that Cabrini is unique in the way he had to dominate the left side on his own most often. He wasn't an overlapping wing back/full back who was primarily supporting a winger instead Graziani and Boniek had very free roles - leaving Cabrini on the left.
Defensively he's not looked anywhere near the greatest defensive full backs. Still one of the very greatest full-backs/wing backs in history, but I don't think it is accurate to portray him as defensively rock solid as well. Like Roberto Carlos is one of the best as well, without being defensively rock solid too.
Precisely what I thought. I get most of Theon's explanation on why he picked Romario and how much he can be a match-winner (his team was my favourite to play against until he picked him!), but not the part where only I could expose Rodríguez. Viva has Reuter/Breitner/Kalle on his right side and TRV has Robben. "Yeah, but he cuts inside and runs into Campbell" is a dangerous game to play at this stage.
Yeah, I don't think it's as big a problem as that Balu. You never seem to say nice things about my team so I'm sure you'll disagree, but Rodriguez isn't even a poor player - Some consider him the best left back around at the moment despite playing in a pretty average team, which aint saying much in truth as there's no great options there - but he's quite clearly not a poor player.
I've been pretty fair with Rodriguez and I'm fully aware hes still young and learning. But the idea that two or three goals are going to come from his mistakes is a load of nonsense IMO. Match ups like that come about all the time and it doesn't happen.
And actually, usually when you get these matchups where a great player is against someone 'weaker', it's a situation in which the great player is playing for the much better team. A team which will have more of the ball and dominate the game, but still around 95% of the time a fullback won't be responsible for conceeding two goals or so.
I swear, he created more goals for us by going down the line and passing the ball back with his right foot in the past 2 seasons than he scored by cutting in and shooting. Robben has been an outstanding right winger.
You should have stopped there. That's Cabrini for you, and Zanetti won't dominate that left flank the way he does the right one.
I thought you would have exposed him the best, so the draw I least wanted was against your team. With RV and Robben I thought he was sure to move to a diamond or a 3-5-2, whereas you would stick with that winger system.
Zanetti was better defensively even on the left, which is the most important in these drafts which we see every time Carlos plays and gets slated and underrated like hell. Most importantly Zanetti is one of the vote winners in these drafts, everybody on this forum has basically seen him play and rate him highly. Compared to Briegel/Cabrini/Carlos who doesn't get the same sort of love, I'd even say the latter two are incredibly underrated always.
Just how these drafts works, Romario is also always underrated in comparison to a Messi or a Ronaldo. All in all I think Zanetti was probably the right choice for him in terms of winning votes as someone like Briegel wouldn't have been massively better either.
Yeah, fair enough, I did wonder too how two sides set up as 4-3-3 would go about adjusting to the bonus. I dismissed it with my last game and could afford to, but it did decide a quarter-final, as you well know.
Then we agree. I said there were better left backs but none of them called Zanetti. Why the need to go off on one about Cabrini when ultimately your point is about kudos?
It's nothing personal though, I like you as a poster, it just seems like we have a very different understanding of the game quite often. Also I completely agree with the bolded part. The notion that a weak link leads to 2 or 3 goals in a game with so many all time greats next to him is completely stupid and I've never said anything like that. If you play Rodriguez, I expect him to be the weakest link and the most obvious route to a goal for Viva though, which clearly is a problem and you should have a very good plan to cover for him.
I disagree with what you wrote about Rodriguez by the way. He's bad defensively, not average or decent or something like that, he's as bad in defense as he's great going forward and he is damn great going forward, absolutely brilliant. Anyone who rates him as the best leftback around at the moment is insane and only judges him on higlights which focus on his attacking contribution. You were unlucky to miss out on Alaba, but I'm not even sure he would be a good enough option at this point in the draft with the players you're up against. Keeping Rodriguez is a crazy risk if you play him as fullback in a back four, it's less of a problem as a wingback in a back five, but still a questionable decision.
To finish this with something positive about your team. I honestly believe that Falcao is the better fit in your team than Sammer and believe that you don't need someone from midfield to cover for Passarella. Don't think I need to say anything about reuniting Romario and Rivaldo
. I already can tell you that I'll like your team a lot more if you play a 532 with Passarella as libero and Romario, Rivaldo, Totti in attack than if you stick to the 4222. But I won't start a long discussion in the thread , in case you're stubborn and stick to what you believe in. I actually like that you're stubborn and don't start changing stuff just to please some 'know it all better'-idiots in the game threads .Might've made a mistake here, but I don't agree there's a problem here. Yeah, mate Lizarazu or Cabrini would've been perfectly comfortable here, but Zanetti is a better player and has played at LB a lot and done it greatly, so I'm not worried against any attacker with him there tbf. I'm not getting right flank's Zanetti but I'm still getting a Zanetti.
I agree about Rodriguez, I thought of keeping Alaba but decided it might be crazy against a top right side. Breitengge is a bloody top right side, with Reuter there even more.
@Theon @MJJ Tuesday?
I agree about Rodriguez, I thought of keeping Alaba but decided it might be crazy against a top right side. Breitengge is a bloody top right side, with Reuter there even more.
@Theon @MJJ Tuesday?
Friday works best mate, if that is at all possible? I have a horrible project on at the moment so I am finishing work at around 9pm Monday-Thursday, then I have to eat and spend time with the family before bed. Would Friday be okay, or the weekend either.
@Balu Cheers for that post mate
Because the first replies about the Zanetti pick were very over the top negative. There were a slightly better defensive option about in Briegel but I think it was fair enough from VJ to pick Zanetti over Briegel - I was quite certain Zanetti would go ahead of Briegel. There was little need to say Zanetti is a worse left back than Cabrini, Carlos, Amoros, Lizarazu or Junior as they are different type of full-backs and fair fecks if VJ wanted a primarily defensively solid one.
I didn't go "off on one" about Cabrini. I called him "one of the best" at what he did, which was operating as a left wing back - or in a modern system a very offensive full back.
I wouldn't call Zanetti a better player than Cabrini. Zanetti on the right versus Cabrini on the left are extremely even, but different players.
Has anyone had a meltdown yet?
Save some debate for the matches as well. 
I am currently preparing my team to dive hard against @antohan and make him go batcrazy so that the ref sends him off to the stand and his team lose their heads.
I am currently preparing my team to dive hard against @antohan and make him go batcrazy so that the ref sends him off to the stand and his team lose their heads.
Draft Kids Wife (in that order)
@Theon I don't like Friday as it brings little votes, but if you have no other options so be it @Edgar Allan Pillow
Bump.
Sent
With the time changes, I wake up around 11 GMT so a 12 GMT start would be fine for me (to catch start and end).