Nonsense. Aganst Spurs we had 99% of our best team available. We had Casemiro, Hojlund, Mount, Eriksen, Amad on the bench.First 11 is fine, if it was a one off game, and not getting shagged playing every game.
The squad isn't deep enough to rest the first 11, leaving the first 11 looking poor.
We thinned the squad out alot over the summer and we're now paying for that. It was a calculated risk but if we were thinning the squad we needed to speed up the recruitment of a left back and a second CM.
Only in January/Summer can we now address having those players in that we need to keep the starting 11 rotating enough to be performing.
Good LB to replace Shaw/Malacia
Good CM to replace Eriksen
Good winger to replace Rashford, Sancho and Greenwood finally.
Those additions will make a difference irrespective of who the manager is. LCB cover, CDM replacement of Casemiro in the squad, Bruno being replaced by Musiala.....
They are all also desirable moves in the market to improve the squad.
Lots to do, to get to two good players in each position.
8th best starting XI.5/6th best squad. 7th best starting XI.
No player that would get in even a PL 3rd best XI.
8th best front 3.
£600m spent.
I've noticed that a lot of you are rating our squad around 5th-7th best.
How on Earth did we arrive at a situation where we have spent more money than most teams on this planet and finished up with a squad which is only 5th-7th best?
It has to be down to the incompetence of the people running the club - the manager also has to take some blame here, as he requested a lot of players from the Dutch league, who didn't turn out to be particularly good.
You're probably right. Certainly far more goal threat in Newcastle's forwards.8th best starting XI.
Amad and Höjlund are our most overrated players.
600m spent and still a very unbalanced team. Our goal threat is miniscule.
Problem is our attack. Just two young players as strikers who never scored enough goals and should be back ups for a seasoned striker. A left out of form winger who will never score as much as he did and two kids who are learning their trades in Garna and Amad.The question is should this squad be performing better.
Yes, it's a strong squad in many areas with a couple of glaring weaknesses still. Left back and striker. I don't count Shaw as present even though i rate his ability.
This squad over a long season should be comfortably in the mix for top 4.
It isn't. For the simple reason that their squads had goalscorers. How we've spent £600m to be reliant on this set of forwards is a disaster.Our squad is better than it was under Mourinho and under Ole. Ole didn’t get bought a DM. That’s what cost him his job. ETH has to show progress after the backing he’s had.
I think there is a problem with the controller, they just bought some replica on a cheap chinese shop, and now pressing x or y in the transfer menu doesn't work. They should get original hardware from the official vendor instead.There are countless discussions on ETH and his tactics, but I also think a proper discussion on the squad as a whole, down to their individual qualities is equally important. So even if we change manager, is our squad good enough?
How good is our squad, individually? I couldn't help thinking that if we had a couple of world class players on both ends, we might have won a few more than we have. Let's take the Liverpool game as an example. If we had one of the world's best strikers instead of Zirkzee, it's not inconceivable that we would have netted two. If it wasn't for Allisson, we also might have netted two, and that asks the question, if we had Allisson, would we have conceded two less?
Most top teams with some few exceptions have world class goal scorers either as strikers or wide forwards. We have Rashford, Højlund/Zirkzee and Garnacho/Amad. How would you rate each? If you go with FC25, which isn't a great metric, but still, it's not really great, is it?
Our midfield suffers from some of the same - Bruno can be world class, but his form lately is worrying. Mainoo is a top prospect, but he's not in the top bracket yet. Ugarte needs to prove himself. Casemiro looks done, sadly, and Mount hasn't been above average for us, at best.
Our defense looks fairly decent, but there are too many mistakes yet. We also lack athleticism at the back, which may be a little worrying. I find it strange that ETH didn't go with a very fast and physical defender next to Martinez. De Ligt looks good, Martinez can be class but has struggled a little. Shaw is too injury prone. Dalot has too many maybes to his name. Mazraoui looks quite good if not elite.
Onana at the back also has so many question marks on him - although I will say he was very good last match and has been decent enough, but is he more than an average goalie? I have my concerns. Just for fun, these are the FC25 ratings this season:
- Bruno Fernandes – 87 (-1)
- Matthijs de Ligt – 84 (-2)
- Lisandro Martinez – 84 (+/- 0)
- Casemiro – 84 (-5)
- Andre Onana – 83 (-2)
- Diogo Dalot – 82 (+2)
- Luke Shaw – 82 (-1)
- Noussair Mazraoui – 81 (-1)
- Marcus Rashford – 81 (-4)
- Manuel Ugarte – 81 (+/- 0)
- Harry Maguire – 80 (+1)
- Alejandro Garnacho – 79 (+4)
- Joshua Zirkzee – 79 (+6)
- Christian Eriksen – 78 (-5)
- Rasmus Hojund – 78 (+2)
- Victor Lindelof – 78 (-2)
- Mason Mount – 78 (-3)
- Leny Yoro – 78 (+7)
- Kobbie Mainoo – 77 (+15)
- Antony – 77 (-4)
- Altay Bayindir – 76 (+/- 0)
Not even close to the truth IMO.
We have a much better squad now, and Ole was overperforming with our 20/21 team. Pogba, Martial, Greenwood and Cavani would improve our current side (their 2021 versions), but other than them, every important player from back then that should be an important player today is still here. Fred and McTominay rightly lost their first XI status so I don't think their departures can possibly mean we regressed.
Maguire, Bruno, and Rashford are still the same players, but they play in a much worse tactical setup than in 2021.
Martínez, Eriksen, Malacia, Hojlund, Mount, Onana, Yoro, Ugarte, de Ligt, Mazraoui, and Zirkzee would all either walk into the XI or be important players in that team.
And then you need to consider that we didn't have Garnacho and Mainoo back then. Amad and Dalot were nowhere near the players they are today, either.
And Newcastle? Their first XI or squad are nowhere near ours mate.
On a little more serious note: those fifaratings reflect their recent performances, not their quality. Taking these stats as the quality and therefore limitation of the players to explain the (under-)performances is circular logics and doesn't explain anything.I think there is a problem with the controller, they just bought some replica on a cheap chinese shop, and now pressing x or y in the transfer menu doesn't work. They should get original hardware from the official vendor instead.
Problem is our attack. Just two young players as strikers who never scored enough goals and should be back ups for a seasoned striker. A left out of form winger who will never score as much as he did and two kids who are learning their trades in Garna and Amad.
So our attack is very sterile. I like Garna but I don’t think he will score double digit in the league. Only Rasmus will maybe but it will be much closer to 10 goals then 20.
Ye we had goalscorers but no midfield or defence. In a proper system and style you can score team goals by many different ways than just having a goalscorerIt isn't. For the simple reason that their squads had goalscorers. How we've spent £600m to be reliant on this set of forwards is a disaster.
This midfield and defence has done nothing to suggest it's better than what we had under either.Ye we had goalscorers but no midfield or defence. In a proper system and style you can score team goals by many different ways than just having a goalscorer
Is this a serious post or extreme sarcasm? Honestly...
- Hojlund is strong, fast, energetic and can dribble. He's good enough to run through a defence on his own.
- Rashford is another quality player. Has had spells of great form, where he's scored 30 goals in a season. He has good shooting ability, is quick, great at beating an offside trap and has good strength.
On a little more serious note: those fifaratings reflect their recent performances, not their quality. Taking these stats as the quality and therefore limitation of the players to explain the (under-)performances is circular logics and doesn't explain anything.
Whatever, I don't even know what these stats mean, I just know that they are pretty meaningless. When the op said they say that there is no quality, I believed him and thought they are rather average stats. In fact, I don't know.Possibly at a tangent, those FIFA EA Sport ratings reflect the fact that Man Utd have millions of fans around the world and they want to play as their team and pretend they’re competitive. Therefore the numbers are juiced. That’s all.
Yoro - we have yet to see kick a ball granted he has massive potential. I am optimistic on this signing
Amad -was signed by Ole. Lets face it Ten Hag has only started playing him because Antony was so underwhelming shite. Ole would of given him a loan and then he would be playing a lot sooner than he has under Ten Hag.
De Ligt/Ugarte/ Zirkzee - I deliberately left out because very early to judge. But from so far what I have seen Ugarte doesn’t look any better than Mctominey or Fred.
Zirkzee doesn’t look better than Martial and not even close to Cavani.
De Ligt I think will be good and definitely better than Maguire and Lindelof. I give you that
Garnacho/Mainoo- both in the academy and always going to make it. Granted Ten Hag gave them both their break credit where its due. But I think most managers would as they were stand outs along with Gore in our Youth Cup winning team
Onana - not an upgrade on De Gea
Mount- is just not good he is slowly becoming the new Van de Beek so thats no change . Chelsea had our pants down with this transfer . I would of kept Sabitzer for half the price
Hojlund - sorry but Greenwood is twice the player but obviously he did what he did and I am not going to argue his case to stay as it opens up a deeper issue which I think goes beyond football.
Malacia- no better than Telles another duff at Full back
Mazaroui- upgrade on AwB ill give you that
Martinez- He is definitely not the worst. But there was and is better left sided Centre backs we could of signed for less money.eg Van de Ven . I can’t see him ever being anything more than a squad player at a top club.
I agree Mcfred was never good enough neither was Lindelof/Maguire but my point is we needed to replace them with better quality not something similar or worse. Which on the whole we have. The Sancho, Ronaldo, Varane window was definitely a missed opportunity. Ten Hag then followed it with more expensive flops. EG Antony, Casemiro ,Mount and Onana.
I could name 6 Villa and Newcastle players that get in our team. We have fallen behind with bad recruitment .
You’re both forgetting Yoro. He’s not slow
We’re slow.I mean wingers*
Hojlund is pacy too.
Sorry but using FC25 as the benchmark for rating our players is genuinely insane. Forget the fact that EA purposely downgrade Utd due to their partnership with Pes and the fact they are just generally a terrible judge of ratings and you could easily have gone with a much better idea for ratings.There are countless discussions on ETH and his tactics, but I also think a proper discussion on the squad as a whole, down to their individual qualities is equally important. So even if we change manager, is our squad good enough?
How good is our squad, individually? I couldn't help thinking that if we had a couple of world class players on both ends, we might have won a few more than we have. Let's take the Liverpool game as an example. If we had one of the world's best strikers instead of Zirkzee, it's not inconceivable that we would have netted two. If it wasn't for Allisson, we also might have netted two, and that asks the question, if we had Allisson, would we have conceded two less?
Most top teams with some few exceptions have world class goal scorers either as strikers or wide forwards. We have Rashford, Højlund/Zirkzee and Garnacho/Amad. How would you rate each? If you go with FC25, which isn't a great metric, but still, it's not really great, is it?
Our midfield suffers from some of the same - Bruno can be world class, but his form lately is worrying. Mainoo is a top prospect, but he's not in the top bracket yet. Ugarte needs to prove himself. Casemiro looks done, sadly, and Mount hasn't been above average for us, at best.
Our defense looks fairly decent, but there are too many mistakes yet. We also lack athleticism at the back, which may be a little worrying. I find it strange that ETH didn't go with a very fast and physical defender next to Martinez. De Ligt looks good, Martinez can be class but has struggled a little. Shaw is too injury prone. Dalot has too many maybes to his name. Mazraoui looks quite good if not elite.
Onana at the back also has so many question marks on him - although I will say he was very good last match and has been decent enough, but is he more than an average goalie? I have my concerns. Just for fun, these are the FC25 ratings this season:
- Bruno Fernandes – 87 (-1)
- Matthijs de Ligt – 84 (-2)
- Lisandro Martinez – 84 (+/- 0)
- Casemiro – 84 (-5)
- Andre Onana – 83 (-2)
- Diogo Dalot – 82 (+2)
- Luke Shaw – 82 (-1)
- Noussair Mazraoui – 81 (-1)
- Marcus Rashford – 81 (-4)
- Manuel Ugarte – 81 (+/- 0)
- Harry Maguire – 80 (+1)
- Alejandro Garnacho – 79 (+4)
- Joshua Zirkzee – 79 (+6)
- Christian Eriksen – 78 (-5)
- Rasmus Hojund – 78 (+2)
- Victor Lindelof – 78 (-2)
- Mason Mount – 78 (-3)
- Leny Yoro – 78 (+7)
- Kobbie Mainoo – 77 (+15)
- Antony – 77 (-4)
- Altay Bayindir – 76 (+/- 0)
Your assessment is way off. You're underrating our current players because they're underperforming in a shit system, compared to 3 years ago when the tactical approach actually enabled our players to actually resemble a football team and perform well together.
Whether or not Amad was signed by Ole, or he would be playing under him now or not, we were comparing our squad now and 3 years ago...and Amad wasn't the player he is today, so I'm not sure his hypothetical squad role if Ole was still here matters a lot in this discussion. Btw Ole didn't know who Amad was and thought he would be coming in as an academy signing. It doesn't matter who was manager when he was signed because he would've been signed no matter what. And what you said regarding Antony isn't true either IMO. ETH doesn't want to not play Amad. It's just a myth made up by United fans who cannot comprehend the idea that Amad struggled with a lot of injury issues last season and might not have been ready to jump back in immediately and play every week.
Zirkzee should not be compared to Cavani. Completely different profiles and roles in the team. Cavani's role was mainly scoring goals, whereas Zirkzee has way more responsibilities in the team.
Onana not being an upgrade on De Gea is an outrageous take, sorry. If you don't appreciate his passing, ball-playing skills, high claims, commanding of his defense etc. and you're only focused on shot-stopping (in which De Gea was a shadow of his former self for the last 3-4 years of his United career anyway), then that's your problem, but all the other things matter a lot.
Same with Malacia not being better than Telles. It's just reeks of you not remembering how bad Telles was. And that actually Malacia was decent in his first season for us.
Likening Mount to van de Beek is once again just a lazy comparison IMO. Van de Beek never played because he was not needed and wasn't good enough. Mount has barely played because he's been always injured. Whenever he did, he was good and certainly has a role to play here. The things he provides are clear to see and they're actually valuable to this United side. Van de Beek is just an average raumdeuter who didn't really offer anything to the team that was needed for him to even get some play time, let alone to even have a small chance of displacing Bruno or anyone else in the starting lineup.
Hojlund is great and will almost certainly turn out as a huge long-term success for us. Greenwood might be a bit more talented overall, but similarly to Zirkzee vs Cavani, it's a totally different profile of player that you are comparing. Greenwood also mostly played on the right for us, whereas Hojlund is only a #9.
The only Newcastle players who get into our strongest XI are Guimaraes and maybe Isak but he's not a given tbf. They've been bad and a dysfunctional side this season, and immediately some of their best players look like a shadow of their former selves, like Isak. Interesting how that doesn't change the opinions of United fans on rival players, but for our own players it's not an excuse, but rather they suddenly forgot how to play football according to them.
From Villa it's Onana and depending on form, Watkins/Durán but they're not givens either. A few other midfielders and wingers are arguable, like Rogers, Bailey, etc. but once again they're actually playing in a good tactical system, whereas our players aren't.
I don't think most United supporters realize how much ETH's suicidal setup used since the start of last season actually handicaps every single one of our players. There's nothing else stopping this group of players at the moment, from comfortably finishing top 4. The only thing to suddenly change and compensate for this is for his ideas and setup to suddenly click and start working. Otherwise this same squad will suddenly have a huge uptick in performances under a new manager, be that interim or permanent. I don't think most fans realize how low ten Hag has set the bar for improvement, for over 12 months now. And it's looking less and less likely with each passing day that the high upside and big reward will ever happen that made him throw away last season, and this season too, so far.
I have to strongly disagree with you. I would take Ben White/Timber, Walker, Trent, Porro, and even Reece James over him without a doubt.Mazraoui is definitely one of the best in the league
Malo Gusto and Rico Lewis are also miles better.I have to strongly disagree with you. I would take Ben White/Timber, Walker, Trent, Porro, and even Reece James over him without a doubt.
Agree.
Our front 4 are wildly overrated by some of our fans.
No one can convince me that our front 3 would start for any of the top 5 or 6 premier League sides.
I think with Yoro and the other new additions, our defence is nearly there, apart from left back.
And hopefully Onana can keep up this form.
But front 3/4 is way below the quality required.
It’s comfortably worse in my opinion with the caveat that India are clearly planning for many of our first team to be (hopefully) elite in 2-3 years.Our squad is better than it was under Mourinho and under Ole. Ole didn’t get bought a DM. That’s what cost him his job. ETH has to show progress after the backing he’s had.
