The Quality of Manchester United's Squad

Rossa

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There are countless discussions on ETH and his tactics, but I also think a proper discussion on the squad as a whole, down to their individual qualities is equally important. So even if we change manager, is our squad good enough?

How good is our squad, individually? I couldn't help thinking that if we had a couple of world class players on both ends, we might have won a few more than we have. Let's take the Liverpool game as an example. If we had one of the world's best strikers instead of Zirkzee, it's not inconceivable that we would have netted two. If it wasn't for Allisson, we also might have netted two, and that asks the question, if we had Allisson, would we have conceded two less?

Most top teams with some few exceptions have world class goal scorers either as strikers or wide forwards. We have Rashford, Højlund/Zirkzee and Garnacho/Amad. How would you rate each? If you go with FC25, which isn't a great metric, but still, it's not really great, is it?

Our midfield suffers from some of the same - Bruno can be world class, but his form lately is worrying. Mainoo is a top prospect, but he's not in the top bracket yet. Ugarte needs to prove himself. Casemiro looks done, sadly, and Mount hasn't been above average for us, at best.

Our defense looks fairly decent, but there are too many mistakes yet. We also lack athleticism at the back, which may be a little worrying. I find it strange that ETH didn't go with a very fast and physical defender next to Martinez. De Ligt looks good, Martinez can be class but has struggled a little. Shaw is too injury prone. Dalot has too many maybes to his name. Mazraoui looks quite good if not elite.

Onana at the back also has so many question marks on him - although I will say he was very good last match and has been decent enough, but is he more than an average goalie? I have my concerns. Just for fun, these are the FC25 ratings this season:

  • Bruno Fernandes – 87 (-1)
  • Matthijs de Ligt – 84 (-2)
  • Lisandro Martinez – 84 (+/- 0)
  • Casemiro – 84 (-5)
  • Andre Onana – 83 (-2)
  • Diogo Dalot – 82 (+2)
  • Luke Shaw – 82 (-1)
  • Noussair Mazraoui – 81 (-1)
  • Marcus Rashford – 81 (-4)
  • Manuel Ugarte – 81 (+/- 0)
  • Harry Maguire – 80 (+1)
  • Alejandro Garnacho – 79 (+4)
  • Joshua Zirkzee – 79 (+6)
  • Christian Eriksen – 78 (-5)
  • Rasmus Hojund – 78 (+2)
  • Victor Lindelof – 78 (-2)
  • Mason Mount – 78 (-3)
  • Leny Yoro – 78 (+7)
  • Kobbie Mainoo – 77 (+15)
  • Antony – 77 (-4)
  • Altay Bayindir – 76 (+/- 0)
 
It's a bit pointless for me to rate all these youngsters here and now.

The rebuild is for the future, so you find talent, give the talent time.

Many of these are only on the beginning of their curve. Garnacho, Amad, Zirkzee and to some extent Mainoo should just play week in week out and in 1-2 years time you'll see them flourish. Takes a good manager and a squad that plays consistently the same way though.
 
I think our back 5 are good enough to play for any title challenging teams.

the main problem is in our front 6.

Rashford Hojlund Amad/Garnacho
Mainoo Ugarte Bruno

If I have to give FC25 ratings, they shall be like this:

Rashford (78) Hojlund (78) Amad (80)/Garnacho (80)
Mainoo (79) Ugarte (81) Bruno (80) (Mount (77); Casemiro (80); Eriksen (80))

it is a legit mid table front 6. It is more demoralising if we list out their predicted league goals:

Rashford: 7-8
Hojlund - 10
Amad + Garna: 10
Mainoo: 3
Ugarte: 0
Bruno: 7-8
(backups: Zirkzee - 5; Mount - 2; Eriksen - 3; Antony - 2; Casemiro: 1)

It is 50 league goals a season. Adding our back 4, it is never more than 60.

The main problem with our sqaud building is that we keep buying (1) unproven teens (2) proven 2nd class players (3) world class but old players who are on decline can play no more than 2 seasons)
Hence we are stuck with 2nd class players

In our last 10 seasons, we only purchased two real world class players in their prime - Pogba and Di Maria, unfortunately both were not arsed to play for us.
 
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I would rate them in brackets as it's hard to say for sure with such an incompetent manager in charge. I feel like a decent manager would get a lot more from some of them.

Good: Mazraoui, De Ligt, Martinez, Mainoo, Amad,. Onana

Potentially good: Zirkzee, Hojlund, Garnacho, Bruno (still I hope)

Average: Dalot, Casemiro, Eriksen (can still be good), Maguire, Evans, Mount, Ugarte

Poor: Lindelof

Very poor: Antony, Rashford

Not rated: Shaw (RIP) Yoro (not seen enough to judge)
 
ROFLUTION said:
It's a bit pointless for me to rate all these youngsters here and now.

The rebuild is for the future, so you find talent, give the talent time.

Many of these are only on the beginning of their curve. Garnacho, Amad, Zirkzee and to some extent Mainoo should just play week in week out and in 1-2 years time you'll see them flourish. Takes a good manager and a squad that plays consistently the same way though.
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The problem is that we rely too much on these youngsters, so we have to rate them accordingly.
 
Front four is main issue - Bruno is woefully out of form, Rashford as well, then it’s just kids with potential.

Would like to see us drop Bruno/Rashford and play a much more controlled game. We still might struggle to score but we might as well start planning for the future and it’s clear whatever the idea is now doesn’t work with players who can’t keep the ball in basic situations.
 
5/6th best squad. 7th best starting XI.

No player that would get in even a PL 3rd best XI.

8th best front 3.

£600m spent.
 
I don't think it's particularly important to look at the individual players and their strengths and weaknesses at the moment.

The reason for saying that is that we have a bunch of young and developing players who are first choice most weeks when they shouldn't be. A couple, (Mainoo and Garnacho) I expect will turn into top class players, the others I'm not so sure.

The top teams do tend to have a few word class players throughout their teams, it allows them to be far more consistent and is ultimately what gets them challenging for the top positions.

Where we are just now though? A world class striker for me would just paper over cracks, he might take the odd chance that Zirkzee or Garnacho are not at the moment and we'd maybe see some more positive results. However, with the performances the way they are, it'd be more get out of jail stuff than us actually getting results on merit and I don't see it making a massive difference overall.

The very strange set ups and in game management from our current boss, along with the lack of confidence, belief and inspiration and belief in the squad I feel serves to blunt the strengths of players and amplifies any weakness. I genuinely don't think I could offer a fair assessment on the actual level of any of our players at this time.

It's pretty clear we'll not be challenging for the league or champions league due to inexperience and a lack of world class players. Top 4 you would think should be about the level, but if not, it's hard to say which players/positions are truly holding us back from achieving that when near enough the whole squad looks abject for large parts of every match.
 
Our attack is woeful. Not one of them is a natural goal scorer. Hojlund probably the best but his overall game needs massive improvement
 
I think it's more that profiles are missing that make a top team, rather than actual quality.

If you're going to play with a 10 that takes a lot of risks, then the rest of the midfield has to be set up to balance that. We lack a controller from deep and a sitter.

Instead we've got Mainoo who links by dribbling rather than passing, and has instead been used high anyway. And then Ugarte who likes to press all over the park or Casemiro who even when his legs hadn't gone he played more attacking than you'd expect.

In attack we have 2 wingers that would rather score than create, and although Zirkzee sort of fits the profile that we need he's the main player that I'd say lacks quality (so far) Hojlund doesn't fit the profiles at all, but I think is of higher quality.

Defence seems quite balanced and it stacks up in the numbers really.
 
If we’d scored half of our clear cut changes we’d be much higher up the pitch. We’re not ruthless enough.
 
We're mid 2000s Liverpool.

Lots of promising youngsters who will never quite get where they need to be, a sprinkling of experienced players who are only good enough in their own minds, and the odd future star who may or may not leave us as soon as they've made it. And a handful who are genuinely good enough.

We even have our own Roy of the Rovers Stevie Me who can win games on his own but overall makes the team worse.


The positive is we've already been through the Spice Boys era of Lingard and Pogba. Now we've got to wait for our Salah to show up.
 
The question is should this squad be performing better.

Yes, it's a strong squad in many areas with a couple of glaring weaknesses still. Left back and striker. I don't count Shaw as present even though i rate his ability.

This squad over a long season should be comfortably in the mix for top 4.
 
Talent wise i think we are fine.

We just lack that fighting spirit, the togetherness. We dont work together as a team. Individuals dont make teams - it cannot work. Even Messi, for all his brilliance individually, was part of a Barcelona team which worked together - they had a brilliant team alongside the immense talent.

Talent and ability without the right mentality is worthless.

Teams with a lot less individual talent than us have outplayed us on the pitch as a team, both home and away. That's damning

We dont have a team identity and spirit. We do not do the basics well enough for our individual talents to produce any form of consistency.

Yes, we have a young pool of talent. But would we do any better with other players into replace ours? I doubt it. Until we have a style of play, and every member of the squad starts to work harder, make better decisions and play for the team we will be in the same boat as we are now.

Rashford can either give you 20+ goals a season or 2. His talent is there. His application to making the most of his talent is woeful. Its worse than that, its We are so lacking in identity talent doesn't even matter for our team.
 
I would agree that our squad quality probably falls quite at bit below the other teams contending for the top 4-6 places at the moment. Which of course makes it even more important to attract a manager, who can work as a force multiplier if you like. And clearly we don't have that at the moment :wenger:

I'm still fairly positive about the talent mass in the squad looking a few years down the line, assuming we can plug the main gaps within the next few windows (DM/CM, LB, RW). For me, Højlund looks potentially very promising in the right setup. The same could be said of Garnacho IMO and possibly Amad...though I was really disappointed to miss out on Olise this summer and have Amad made an "integral part of the squad" or whatever the line was. Man, Olise...just for the random off pitch moments that kid would have provided, it would have been so worth it. But for Amad I still have concerns about his physicality. My ideal United side has explosive wing play, and he doesn't quite fit that role. I'm liking what I see from Zirkzee so far aside from the finishing. I would like to see him play alongside Højlund somehow. If he was brought in to offer a different tactical option to Højlund that automatically rules him out, I wouldn't like that.

Rashford has been poor and inconsistent for years now, but part of me is still not ready to give up on him. It's not just the romance of it, but I think he needs a more deft, human touch from the manager and a better environment to thrive. That could happen with a different manager. Also if we're going to persist with him a bit longer, we need to play to his strengths more. He is not really a forward in the style of City or Arsenal who will keep the ball while pushing the defender back at the same time. He needs overlaps, movement around him etc. when he gets the ball. I could see it working out with him still, but it has to come soon.

Bruno is an issue for me. Not because he doesn't have qualities and moments - oh, the moments - but he is such a limited player for the role he is given. Can't take on a man, no physicality, struggles to receive the ball on the half-turn and in small spaces, erratic pressing and passing. Just too chaotic and hot-headed in his style. Maybe some of it is instruction and tactics, but yeah...imagine having a player like Palmer in that free role? Instantly it's a different team almost.

Antony...I pray something can happen there, but it just seems like a complete failure. Disasterclass honestly :o

For the midfield, I love Kobbie, really do. I also worry he is being hyped and pushed forward too soon even for someone with his mentality. The rest is pretty bad honestly with the jury still out on Ugartes qualities and possible fit for the squad. Eriksen and Casemiro are done at the top level and can barely be trusted to play bit part roles for a club with ambition. Collyer I like, but maybe I don't rate him if that makes sense. Mount would be a good utility player for the squad if he could get fit, but never more than that I don' think. We desperately need new blood here, but I worry about recruitment if there is truth in the rumours that we're going for top talents like Wharton next year. Everyone wants that type of player, so can we compete without pointing to a succesful recent trajectory? Again, we can't let this season slide and become another write off.

Defence I think we're setup pretty well, once we get a starting left back, Branthwaite or whatever the plan is. Again recruitment could be difficult for the best players here if we're up against our main rivals for those positions. That could hamper our progress towards building a squad to compete in a few years time.

Goalkeeper is difficult. I still don't know if Onana is good enough for a top team, so maybe thats another hole to plug down the line. Not an immediate concern though.

I don't play FC25, so the ratings don't mean much to me. Maybe you can add some context just for fun. What do the current Liverpool squad ratings look like for instance to compare?
 
Some stinker transfers recently have left us with some glaring holes. Not signing a left back and then Casemiro, Sancho, Antony and Mount that's like 250 million wasted on dross. Whoever was responsible from the recruitment under ETH needs sacking it's a truly abysmal waste of resources

Oh and not signing a left back and proven striker.
 
Our attack is the biggest problem. A few promising youngsters, but overall it is extremely weak for a team hoping to fight near the top of the table. It's also an astronomically expensive area to fix so we are screwed if the youngsters don't work out. Before we spunked away 600 million pounds we were probably the 3rd or 4th best squad, now we are probably 5th. So great work there.
 
Why does this club refuse to sign a world class creative CM who can pull strings from the middle and control the midfield? One of our biggest weaknesses for a long, long time.
 
Yoro was the CB with pace, just unlucky that he got injured. We didn’t pay 60m for him to sit on the bench.

My opinion is that the long term pair will be DeLigt-Yoro and particularly if another head coach is appointed.
 
Let Garnacho, Mainoo, Amad, and Hojlund mature for 2 more years, and we add a new world class CAM and a quick world class LM, we will be fine.

We should stop buying teenagers or washed world classes
 
Our players are too slow.

Dalot - not slow per se but not the fastest RB either. He's often done by quicker players. Also brainless.
Mazraoui - slow
De Ligt - slow
Maguire, Lindelof - slow
Martinez - slow(ish)
Shaw - he had decent pace once, now he plays* like a CB, always tucking in because he can't keep up with the wide forwards. Also fat
Casemiro - slow
Eriksen - slow
Mainoo - slow
Bruno - slow mind, headless chicken
Zirkzee - slow
Hojlund - not slow but he's not pressing or running in behind like he did in his first few games when he arrived. He looks sluggish

The only players with a bit of pace are Rashford, Garnacho, Amad and Antony. Rashford only runs forward, his defensive work is pathetic.

*- not actually playing

When our pressing fails we have no recovery pace and our defense is always deeper than it needs to be because they are slow.

Slow ride, take it easy
 
It's a good squad, best we had in many years. The front 4 is moving like 4 individuals, what could've worked in prime Marcus / Martial / Mason and Bruno days, but current attackers need a coach. Doesn't need to be Pep, just a coach that knows what he's doing.
 
It’s a mishmash of players bought at different times to play different styles of football plus a smattering of talented potential plus far too many players bought from other big clubs who those clubs were only too happy to let go.

All coached by a manager who isn’t trusted by the top brass but has been kept on in a marriage of convenience due to a perceived lack of alternatives, is being micromanaged from above due to this, and is out of his depth.
 
Fantastic potential, a big ask for this team to deliver immediately.

If the recruitment follows the model of latest signings we will have a very good team within 2 seasons.
 
Mediocrity in midfield can be overcome if the mediocre players are at least fighters/runners. If they dont fight or run then it is pretty bad.
From Mainoo aside i see nothing promising in midfield and even Bruno is, besides rare moments of brilliance, pretty average most of the time.

I bet Rasmus and Joshua would look much better with a great midfield behind them.
 
FreakyJim said:
Our players are too slow.

Dalot - not slow per se but not the fastest RB either. He's often done by quicker players. Also brainless.
Mazraoui - slow
De Ligt - slow
Maguire, Lindelof - slow
Martinez - slow(ish)
Shaw - he had decent pace once, now he plays* like a CB, always tucking in because he can't keep up with the wide forwards. Also fat
Casemiro - slow
Eriksen - slow
Mainoo - slow
Bruno - slow mind, headless chicken
Zirkzee - slow
Hojlund - not slow but he's not pressing or running in behind like he did in his first few games when he arrived. He looks sluggish

The only players with a bit of pace are Rashford, Garnacho, Amad and Antony. Rashford only runs forward, his defensive work is pathetic.

*- not actually playing

When our pressing fails we have no recovery pace and our defense is always deeper than it needs to be because they are slow.

Slow ride, take it easy
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Antony is very slow as a ball carrier as well.
Rashford's burst of pace is losing.
Amad got a nice small burst of pace but he is not very quick at winger's standard.
Garnacho is our only pacy player.
 
Now we know the importance of Martial. How he kept the ball and pass back for Bruno to score. Bruno even became the highest scoring midfielder in a calendar year.

At least the defence and midfield is fixed now with De Ligt, Martinez, Yoro, Mazra, Dalot, Shaw, Maguire, Mainoo, Ugarte, Casemiro.
 
Once the new defence and midfield bed in over the next few months, I think we’re fine there as we are in goal. There’s some very good players in those positions now; a big upgrade in a 12 month period.

Our real issue is the front 4. It’s a mismatch of young potential, a has been, a giant flop, & a captain erratic. It really lacks genuine champions league level quality and clearly the goal scoring knack. We obviously don’t have a Haaland, Salah or Kane type superstar, but our current options are at least two bands below that. Our goal scoring record over a long period of time now proves it. Simply not good enough unless your ambition is to finish between 6th & 8th every season.
 
Captmfla said:
Now we know the importance of Martial. How he kept the ball and pass back for Bruno to score. Bruno even became the highest scoring midfielder in a calendar year.

At least the defence and midfield is fixed now with De Ligt, Martinez, Yoro, Mazra, Dalot, Shaw, Maguire, Mainoo, Ugarte, Casemiro.
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Our midfield is far from fixed.
 
Hammondo said:
Our midfield is far from fixed.
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Neither is the defence.

ten Hag spent/was given over €650 million worth of players. And that doesn't even include Eriksen, Evans, Mainoo and Garnacho who all count as free.

The definition of a chequebook manager.
 
It's potential and mediocrity.

We haven't got a good cycle of ages or profile of players to rely on, so much money spent as always and nothing much to show for it. In a few years we might have some of these produce.

We need to be rotating in and out established scorers, potential and experience much better. We're kind of fecked if Marcus purple patch is not scoring and Bruno resembling a flogged horse with nothing left but insists on carrying on. Casemiro was a 4-6 month respite, expensive and risky transfer, brilliant for a short time.

A change of tactics can help though, ETH resists a compact midfield. We go into games with one or no midfielders, two are pushing too high trying to force transitions and turnovers that statistically for most teams don't even produce goals. A new manager can create a compact disciplined 3 man midfield that can control and create better. Mainoo and Bruno performed brilliantly in the FA Cup final by being close to each other and controlling the space to limit the other team and launch attacks. ETH wants to play like there's 5 mins left most games. To make it work we'd need too many top players in their prime and it would still be an exhausting way to go about it.
 
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Fallon d'Floor said:
Neither is the defence.

ten Hag spent/was given over €650 million worth of players. And that doesn't even include Eriksen, Evans, Mainoo and Garnacho who all count as free.

The definition of a chequebook manager.
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I think we have a very good defense, would be nice to have another left back, but we have some great center backs and right backs. Good ages also.

He's not picking the players anymore.
 
Our 600M worth of player is not good enough? Probably not for topping City but surely we can play better football than fecking twente

Half the EPL can only dream of having our squad.

Every good player comes to United and suddenly becomes deadwood. At what point will we point the other way?
 
Hammondo said:
I think we have a very good defense, would be nice to have another left back, but we have some great center backs and right backs. Good ages also.

He's not picking the players anymore.
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I don't rate most of the signings made. Lisandro is one of the most overrated players in the league, for example.

And he has clearly still had a say in this summer's window. The Atheltic (Mitten and Laurie) have even said as much.

I'd classify Yoro as a club signing. de Ligt, Mazraoui and Zirkzee clearly have some sort of ten Hag influence.
 
I just never know where the goals are going to come from, moments of magic from kids is all well and good. But the rest of the squad can’t seem to contribute consistently.
Manchester United should always have the best attacking players possible, we can’t be relying on potential to get into the top four, it should be a mix of great players and potential, for me it’s players like Bruno and Rashford that let the team down, they should know by now how to effectively get the team ticking, but it’s like they’re still learning like the kids are.. we should be going all out for players like Olise… we’re desperately missing game changers
 
I think there's definitely some good players here, and a better manager could easily pick an 11 to have us playing decent football. However, given he's spent a feck tonne of money, it's a squad with massive deficiencies and yet more deadwood. So, same as the last 11 years basically.
 
It’s incredibly hard to judge the individual merits of players when the system is such a mess. We don’t set up to get the best out of anyone. Cole Palmer would struggle in this ETH team.
 
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