That's on aspect of a season. OP explores much more than that
The Premier League is Crap
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That's on aspect of a season. OP explores much more than that
Terrible examples. 2012/13 saw the greatest manager of all time win the league in his final season and 2015/16 was one of the great underdog stories.
Arsenal basically sacrificed every other competition this season to focus on the league and they won't even come close to winning it in the end.
Football is about more than just the number of points accrued and crazy high point totals from one or two teams actually point to a league that isn't very competitive overall.
You are right it should be about how competitive it was but your last title winning season was not competitive. 11 points clear is not competitive. It wasn’t even a vintage United side, you had better seasons with that same squad. Absolutely no one will remember that particular year besides United fans because it was dull as dishwasher.
Leicesters title winning season was only memorable for them winning it from nowhere, Poch crying that no one wanted them to win it and Spurs actually fecking themselves up. Was it a strong league that year? No.
If you weren’t a fan of any of these 3 particular teams in this case they were pretty crap seasons for the league as a whole. One team dominating doesn’t make a good league and an underdog winning it, that’s nice sure but nice isn’t always good.
The level at the bottom is truly atrocious this year which is what makes it incredibly frustrating to be in that group.
Football was more exciting with more world class players and more imagination and wow moments from players.
Been enjoying watching the battles the last few weeks, last nights game and Leeds / Leicester in particular.
Maybe lower on quality but proper contests.
Have completely lost interest in the top end, it’s almost anti-sport and likely going to get worse.
That happens when one club wins year after year essentially by cheating.
It's like that one kid at school whose parents are rich. You're enjoying talking about GameBoy with your classmates and then he turns up with the actual thing. It's alright at first but then he keeps showing up with the things you wanted so effortlessly. Then they lose all meanings since you know this fecker is going to have them.
A World Cup in Qatar, held in the middle of winter, was football's saving grace? Christ, we really are buggered.
In terms of football quality it was the best World Cup in a while.
City play what most would argue is the highest quality of football. It's impossible to separate success from the means of how it is reached.
Best quality of managers in all leagues.
Entertainment yes, actual quality no. There were no great teams on display and the final was contested by a France that was a step down from 2018 and a fairly pedestrian Argentina side.
As club team tactics have overtaken individual brilliance we have lost the flair players from the game. On the international stage they don't have time to nail the team tactics so we're left with a bunch of average sides with few great players to make a difference.
Not me, I've been rooting for Arse and you can quote me on that in the sexual posts thread
It's the least interested I've ever been in a season.
Every conversation on the forum around how we kick on and improve is like 'depends if we get a 500m or a 800m budget this summer'.
Football has boiled down to one dimension. I'm wondering if the best outcome is now a Super League to take the teams that are happy for every match to be an exhibition to leave behind something better. Then it is up to fans to vote with their feet.
Every conversation on the forum around how we kick on and improve is like 'depends if we get a 500m or a 800m budget this summer'.
Football has boiled down to one dimension. I'm wondering if the best outcome is now a Super League to take the teams that are happy for every match to be an exhibition to leave behind something better. Then it is up to fans to vote with their feet.
I'm probably a good deal less emotionally invested in much of this than you seem to be (and nothing wrong with that), but I also find it striking how badly run so many clubs seem to be at present. PL clubs are collectively in a uniquely favorable situation, with the money side of things giving opportunities to even lowly PL clubs that even big clubs in other big leagues don't have. So far, that seems to be making most of them more dysfunctional. Chelsea, Spurs, Everton, Leicester have all descended into shitshow status, Forest is a free-spending joke, Southampton have slipped, Leeds and Liverpool have lost their way, Wolves are stuck in neutral (or worse) after years of heavy investment. Not 12 months ago, things were looking every bit as bad at United as it now does at, say, Spurs. A record number of managers have been sacked, three teams have sacked two managers and before long there'll probably be four (Leeds). At the 30-game mark, 9 teams were involved in the relegation race.
All things considered, it now looks as if the trailblazing example much of the league is emulating is.....Watford.
It's all impatience, quick fixes, perpetual panic. This is what the money seems to bring, with the exception of a few standouts who either are so secure in their finances they're not much affected (City, Newcastle), or know they must expect to have so little of it they've built their whole model around other things (Brentford, Brighton).I think the quality is high, but bigger gaps though.
<Really long post disagreeing with everything you write>
A lot of these issues are actually football-related, in general, and not restricted to the Premier League, to be fair. Lack of individuality (notable players) etc. has really stemmed from the existence of that dominant Barcelona and Spain side; too much was put into systematic play ever since those teams existed. I would say football doesn't seem as set towards this as it was, though, with the re-emergence of strikers once more, which is an improvement.
A lot of the ones related to PL aren't even new (and they exist in the other top leagues, also):
I know people have a lot of criticism for City around how many titles they are winning, but, in that respect, it is not really any different to Manchester United. If they win the title this year, Man City would have won the league 7 times out of 11. Manchester United won 8 out of 11 titles in the 90s. We then won 5 out of 7 PL titles in the 2000s. We are the only club to win 3 PL titles in a row, and we have done it twice. It is not like this kind of dominance is anything new to the Premier League.
In fact, if you take out the purchase of Man City and Chelsea, there is a good chance that Manutd would have won 8 Premier League titles in a row. This is the same level of dominance experienced in the Bundesliga and has been seen Serie A in recent times. Barcelona have also had a stranglehold over the La Liga for a fairly long period, which seems to recently have come to an end.
City are the dominant side, at the moment, but they will see a drop off when Guardiola leaves. It just happens that they have the best manager at this time. Just like we had the best PL manager with Ferguson. Once managers like that get into a flow, it is very hard to stop them from winning.
The issue about lower clubs and where they are heading has been an issue ever since football started to grow financially. Again, Manchester United are at the forefront of this for the Premier League; it became unrivalled financially and likely would have assumed a position of the Bayern Munich of the Premier League, hoovering up all the best players from lower teams. It is not something new; it is something that has existed for the last 30 years. Remember us taking Rooney after his first season at Everton? Perhaps they would have achieved top four on more than one occasion if they could keep him.
A lot of the ones related to PL aren't even new (and they exist in the other top leagues, also):
I know people have a lot of criticism for City around how many titles they are winning, but, in that respect, it is not really any different to Manchester United. If they win the title this year, Man City would have won the league 7 times out of 11. Manchester United won 8 out of 11 titles in the 90s. We then won 5 out of 7 PL titles in the 2000s. We are the only club to win 3 PL titles in a row, and we have done it twice. It is not like this kind of dominance is anything new to the Premier League.
In fact, if you take out the purchase of Man City and Chelsea, there is a good chance that Manutd would have won 8 Premier League titles in a row. This is the same level of dominance experienced in the Bundesliga and has been seen Serie A in recent times. Barcelona have also had a stranglehold over the La Liga for a fairly long period, which seems to recently have come to an end.
City are the dominant side, at the moment, but they will see a drop off when Guardiola leaves. It just happens that they have the best manager at this time. Just like we had the best PL manager with Ferguson. Once managers like that get into a flow, it is very hard to stop them from winning.
The issue about lower clubs and where they are heading has been an issue ever since football started to grow financially. Again, Manchester United are at the forefront of this for the Premier League; it became unrivalled financially and likely would have assumed a position of the Bayern Munich of the Premier League, hoovering up all the best players from lower teams. It is not something new; it is something that has existed for the last 30 years. Remember us taking Rooney after his first season at Everton? Perhaps they would have achieved top four on more than one occasion if they could keep him.
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In retrospect, we dominated for a time yes. But there were always question marks over us every season, it was always "the end" for Fergie, this and that player was always past it, the opposition had always caught up, and it was nearly always the end of the line for us. We operated in cycles and our squad was never perfect. We had a lot of filler from the academy and elsewhere to fill in the gaps, players we had to rely on stepping up when it mattered and the great man was able to achieve that. The league was rarely a foregone conclusion before a ball was kicked and we never had the kind of loaded squad that City have for the last decade.
Guardiola could stay on for another 10 years and probably hoover up 70% of league titles in that time, as long as Abu Dhabi remain invested. And they'll probably do that even if he leaves. The rest of the league are incapable of ever catching up. The only thing that is going to long-term challenge them is another state actor, ie Newcastle or a Qatar-backed United. That's the sad state of PL football today.
Depends on what you define best as
The PL is not the best in terms of quality football but I would argue it's the best entertainment
La Liga and Serie A have lots of technical quality but personally I find most games boring, Ligue 1 and the Bundesliga are virtually 1 team leagues, I haven't watched either recently so I've no idea if they're as entertaining as the PL but I suspect not
It's because it's now American chocolate
Yeah some of those Messi Goals and assists were proper Tony Pulis hoofballs...
there was plenty of quality this world cup. The nature of the games are different than well drilled tactical sides. The France vs England game was some of the best football I've seen in a while.
I actually prefer it because players can use more of their individual skill and teams aren't drilled to a certain playing style
Case in point really. Messi at 35 is a shadow of his best yet he was arguably the best player at the World Cup. The quality just was not there.
This world cup he was really good. I don't know what it was but some of his play was pure genius.
billions of pounds later, after selling half of the league to oil states and businessmen from around the world, one of the biggest English talents prefers to go to Madrid rather than to City that offered him more money. This is football heritage.
in fact it's less about Premier League being crap, more about City who dominate it being a hollow team no-one wants to commit to
in fact it's less about Premier League being crap, more about City who dominate it being a hollow team no-one wants to commit to
The Premier League has never been better or more popular. The only minus is the dominance of City, but so far at least one club has managed to compete with them each season and that needs to continue.
Compared to other leagues the average quality of the teams from top to bottom of the table in the PL is miles better than all the other top leagues in Europe and all the other top 5 leagues has experienced dominance from 1-3 teams the last 10-20 years.
We've had 6 different winners the last 20 years.
Ligue 1: PSG (the most unbalanced one when it comes to squad strength and resources) All other results than a PSG win is a PSG failure with the resources and squad they have compared to their competitors.
Serie A: Juve 2011-2020 (100 points season) The last 21 years there's only been 3 different winners (Inter, Milan and Juve) with Napoli breaking that curse this season.
Bundesliga: Bayern (total dominance with the exception of Dortmunds two wins with Klopp more than 10 years ago). Battle between the two this season.
LaLiga: RM and Barca (...and Athletico)
Worst season 11/12:
#1 Real Madrid (GF: 121-32) 100 points
#2 Barca (GF: 114-29) 91 points (also has had a 100 points season)
#3 Valencia (GF: 59-44) 61 points
Real and Barca literally played fodder in 36 out of 38 games that season (and most seasons between 2008 and 2023) The rivalry between Messi and Ronaldo kept it a good product (I dont think many outside of Spain watched many games of other teams though). Since Valencia won LaLiga in 2004: Barca - 10 wins (on their way to 11 this season), Real Madrid - 6 wins and Athletico - 2 wins.
Compared to other leagues the average quality of the teams from top to bottom of the table in the PL is miles better than all the other top leagues in Europe and all the other top 5 leagues has experienced dominance from 1-3 teams the last 10-20 years.
We've had 6 different winners the last 20 years.
Ligue 1: PSG (the most unbalanced one when it comes to squad strength and resources) All other results than a PSG win is a PSG failure with the resources and squad they have compared to their competitors.
Serie A: Juve 2011-2020 (100 points season) The last 21 years there's only been 3 different winners (Inter, Milan and Juve) with Napoli breaking that curse this season.
Bundesliga: Bayern (total dominance with the exception of Dortmunds two wins with Klopp more than 10 years ago). Battle between the two this season.
LaLiga: RM and Barca (...and Athletico)
Worst season 11/12:
#1 Real Madrid (GF: 121-32) 100 points
#2 Barca (GF: 114-29) 91 points (also has had a 100 points season)
#3 Valencia (GF: 59-44) 61 points
Real and Barca literally played fodder in 36 out of 38 games that season (and most seasons between 2008 and 2023) The rivalry between Messi and Ronaldo kept it a good product (I dont think many outside of Spain watched many games of other teams though). Since Valencia won LaLiga in 2004: Barca - 10 wins (on their way to 11 this season), Real Madrid - 6 wins and Athletico - 2 wins.
A bit of an exaggeration, the 2012/13 was still somewhat memorable because it was the Van Persie year, and SAF's last year. Saying "absolutely no one will remember it" is incorrect, but you are right that the quality was mediocre.
The Leicester one is a vintage PL season - not necessarily in terms of the actual quality on display, so many sides were poor, but just because of who won it and how the season developed. I'm actually not sure what you're arguing here beyond the quality point, surely you agree it's a massively memorable season?
It was still a mediocre WC in terms of quality.
Agree with all of this. I’ve never been as disinterested with the league, even with United playing better. I think the main reason is City effectively cheating to the top and now in a position of dominance. There isn’t even a title race any more.
And as you say there is a case against them and it’s not mentioned by any one, just as the previous case wasn’t mentioned. No doubt there is concern about how the UAE owners will react. There is clear manipulation in the media around them and now Newcastle. The League Cup final was as if the big mighty United were playing the underdog. Every journalist were writing as if they wanted them to win.
Club Football is shite now really. Many things are better in isolation of course but the actual competition is the least compelling I can remember. City might be the best side English football has ever seen, but so what, their achievements are hollow, are we supposed to be in awe of Haaland smashing records while playing in a super team beating up on hugely outmatched teams? Or PSG/Bayern/Real/Barca? What is the point? No wonder so much of fandom has moved to the NBA model of following individuals over teams.
Do you know what is overlooked a lot is the fact that City’s dominance is our fault and only ours. Klopp has done well challenging with Liverpool, Chelsea come strong every 3 seasons or so.
Since Pep has been at City we have nearly spent as much as him but awful board, managers and signings we haven’t got near them
Since Pep has been at City we have nearly spent as much as him but awful board, managers and signings we haven’t got near them
Money and Pep, take one away they shall fall! Prob for one season though then back again
Which is even more disappointing if you remember how Fergie saw off the challenge of the last club to try and financially dope its way to PL domination.
In my highly impartial opinion. the Premier League was absolutely wonderful and the place to be from 1992/1993 until 1998/1998 and from 2001/2002 until 2011/2012, but was terrible in all other seasons.
That’s the thing though SAF did that especially during a time we were saving money yet now we spend on stupid transfers for wrong managers. We should be the challengers to City over the last few years not Liverpool.
As with SAF you can see with Klopp what a good manager can do yet we didn’t spend much during the end of SAF reign and when we did we had nowhere near the level of manager
Getafe beat Real last year and Real also lost against Levante who relegated. City haven't lost against a team fighting for relegation since 2019...
What a horrific title 'race' that was. One team stayed in second gear, pretty much certain theyd win the title since day 1, then decided when to kick on. Was there a single dramatic moment? Beyond arsenal winning a couple of games late.
Thats 5 in 6 years and they're winning them more easily than PSG win Ligue 1.
Thats 5 in 6 years and they're winning them more easily than PSG win Ligue 1.
Arsenal 'bottling' it has become more of a headline than City 'winning' another title with a squad depth most clubs would dream of.
It really isn't a competition as much as Sky likes to paint it.
We all knew City would reel Arsenal in, and Arsenal would stumble. I think until Pep gets bored and decides to f off, nothing will change.
Liverpool will be back next season you can bet on it if they spend and invest well in midfield maybe another better defender, with money we have spent over the years we should have been challenging which is down to our dreadful recruitment its upto us to make the correct decision on a striker and the away games we struggle to win will be turned to victories and with out home record we wont be far off.
City will continue winning long after Pep leaves if they are allowed to keep on cheating. Pep has changed their culture but he isnt the difference between the other teams.
Arsenal bottling it is a big story because they were 8 points clear at one point. It’s nothing like Liverpool getting 97 points and still not winning it.