The perennial struggle to sell

Well people on here are now wanting us to sign Latvia for three or four times as much, so I guess that initial fee was worth it?
City have a much better academy than we do and they'll produce better quality players overall.

Yes, evidenced by all the academy players that have broken into their first team set up over the last decade. Oh wait……

Even “academy” players like Lavia were bought in. He spent one year at city. They have great facilities but United’s record in producing players that go on to have professional careers, in second to none in England. And if it weren’t for external circumstances, right now we’d have the two hottest youth prospects in the country - Greenwood and Garnacho - in our attacking ranks. What other top team can say this? None.

Our record selling youth players isn’t great, because we hold on to them too long. But this is only because we actually develop them with the intention of integrating them into the first team squad. That often doesn’t work out and then their value plummets. City sell them before they even get that chance and their value is still high. It’s a business model, not an actual pathway to the first team.

I will always prefer the United way. Our tradition is built on that. And long May we prioritise that over getting 15m for a prospect that we are never going to give a chance. The only thing I would have is do a little differently, is sell a few of these players a little earlier but with buy back clauses. But never at the expense of offering a viable pathway to first team football.
 
The fact we cannot command a fee by selling players is astounding to say the least. I guess it goes down partly to incompetency. Maybe it improves this time as we have potentially a whole team for sale.

Henderson

B Williams Eric Bailley Mcguire Alex Telles

Mctominay Fred

Van de Beek

Martial Elanga Sancho

Maybe a starting 11 for a lower midtable team
Wages are a huge problem. Other teams that would be interested in the players you mentioned couldnt afford to match the financial pacakages the guys have at Utd.

Also we dont know how much involvement glazers have with the final say on buying/selling and they are notoriously slow to make decisions.

Anyway henderson leaving for forest on a permanent deal has been delayed until the keeper situatio has been sorted out.
 

There is literally a near 0% chance West Ham will pay 35, especially when we are scrimping wherever we can to make the Rice money go further (Zakaria loan instead of buying, using Flynn Downes as a make shift to make prices lower). FFP sadly means we don't have as much as many people think we do this season, hence why we wre being careful. Splurging in Maguire like that would be a joke.
 
Couldn't sell water in a desert. Our youngsters are leaving for next to nothing. No one wants our expensive dross and they have no reason to leave their cushy wages. The last 4 years we've had 19 departures. Of them, 13 left for free. For the rest we've got a grand total of £50 million, if that. Utter shambles, but hardly surprising, of course, when the incompetence is rife.
 
The fact we cannot command a fee by selling players is astounding to say the least. I guess it goes down partly to incompetency. Maybe it improves this time as we have potentially a whole team for sale.

Henderson

B Williams Eric Bailley Mcguire Alex Telles

Mctominay Fred

Van de Beek

Martial Elanga Sancho

Maybe a starting 11 for a lower midtable team
Come on.. MAGUIRE
 
The fact we cannot command a fee by selling players is astounding to say the least. I guess it goes down partly to incompetency. Maybe it improves this time as we have potentially a whole team for sale.

Henderson

B Williams Eric Bailley Mcguire Alex Telles

Mctominay Fred

Van de Beek

Martial Elanga Sancho

Maybe a starting 11 for a lower midtable team
But not worth their wages.
 
Couldn't sell water in a desert. Our youngsters are leaving for next to nothing. No one wants our expensive dross and they have no reason to leave their cushy wages. The last 4 years we've had 19 departures. Of them, 13 left for free. For the rest we've got a grand total of £50 million, if that. Utter shambles, but hardly surprising, of course, when the incompetence is rife.
This is so, so terrible... :wenger::nervous::(
 
It’s almost like City have a contact at Southampton that is ‘influenced’ into paying these huge sums for academy players to help balance the books.

Dodgy as feck.
Maybe you shouldn't drink so much.
 
It's too early to lay any of the blame for this on Arnold, Murtough and Fletcher.

It's widely accepted that-.

1) The wages we pay are too high and put-off potential buyers

2) We do not market our Academy players very well, because we are too slow in assessing their trajectory

If you acknowledge that both of those things are true, or somewhat true, then you must appreciate that those are not solvable overnight.

In fact, it could be 2/3 seasons before we can fairly judge the current exec. team on outgoings - because of the mess they inherited
 
Our fans publically put down players but want to sell them as shiny new toys. If we sold Rashford last season of Oles, we wouldnt get over 40-45mil. If we shut up about Maguire & just eased him out the starting XI - he would have been sold by now, a good player not playing great for us. The ones likely to be sold are less publically put down (but not completely) like fred & mctomminay , but we are a rich club underperforming historically in the CL that therefor overpays players contracts to make them sign for us & sometimes to even stay with us (de gea, ronaldo), effecting homegrown contracts as a result.

Ive said it before, if i could trade a prior Cl win to swap our fanbase for liverpools then i would instantly - the way they support their players of varying quality is delusional but beautiful & is why they win CLs like vs Milan in 2005 through complete fluke because of support of their average squad. We would never win that Cl vs milan because of a lack of support, we only win a CL when we are no doubt the best team in the world (notice first citys treble & our treble, best itw only with shit support). We win less cls than capable & then overpay for contracts as a result.

Rinse & repeat.
You think clubs listen to what other clubs fans say? You think that's how any of this works?
 
Yes, evidenced by all the academy players that have broken into their first team set up over the last decade. Oh wait……

Even “academy” players like Lavia were bought in. He spent one year at city. They have great facilities but United’s record in producing players that go on to have professional careers, in second to none in England. And if it weren’t for external circumstances, right now we’d have the two hottest youth prospects in the country - Greenwood and Garnacho - in our attacking ranks. What other top team can say this? None.

Our record selling youth players isn’t great, because we hold on to them too long. But this is only because we actually develop them with the intention of integrating them into the first team squad. That often doesn’t work out and then their value plummets. City sell them before they even get that chance and their value is still high. It’s a business model, not an actual pathway to the first team.

I will always prefer the United way. Our tradition is built on that. And long May we prioritise that over getting 15m for a prospect that we are never going to give a chance. The only thing I would have is do a little differently, is sell a few of these players a little earlier but with buy back clauses. But never at the expense of offering a viable pathway to first team football.
That's an amazing bias view of Greenwood and Garnacho, and I think you would struggle to find many non United supporters who agree.
 
That's an amazing bias view of Greenwood and Garnacho, and I think you would struggle to find many non United supporters who agree.
Even most United fans would rate Saka and Foden quite a bit higher.
 
We need to be less concerned about the struggle to sell our deadwood than whether we're loading up more problems for the future in the here and now.

We can't do anything about mistakes already made under Woodward, and will just have to ride it out until these problems resolve themselves (which in most cases will involve running down contracts)

The question is are we making mistakes now which will give us problems in the future? I'd argue in the most case not. The biggest clangers on our books currently were all created under Woodward. Even beyond the obvious eg. Sancho, we supposedly pay Telles 100k a week and Henderson 120k! Madness.

Case and Varane stand out as older, highly paid players but they're still at their peak and clearly hungry to succeed.
 
Even most United fans would rate Saka and Foden quite a bit higher.
Garnacho had only one season. Do you rate Saka after his first season higher? His breakthrough was 19/20 season at the age of 18 with 38 appearances and 4 goals - now Garnacho also at 18 just had 36 appearances with 6 goals (and 6 assists)
 
Even most United fans would rate Saka and Foden quite a bit higher.
Hang on - you’re comparing United’s youngsters with the best young players at two other clubs.

To have produced Greenwood, Garnacho, Henderson, Rashford and even Williams in the last few years is testament to the strength of our academy.
 
Hang on - you’re comparing United’s youngsters with the best young players at two other clubs.

To have produced Greenwood, Garnacho, Henderson, Rashford and even Williams in the last few years is testament to the strength of our academy.
Garnacho was bought from Atletico Madrid a couple years back. Bit of a stretch to say we produced him
 
Hang on - you’re comparing United’s youngsters with the best young players at two other clubs.

To have produced Greenwood, Garnacho, Henderson, Rashford and even Williams in the last few years is testament to the strength of our academy.
Hang on, I am saying that United does not have the two best/most exciting young players in the league, which was what the other poster said. Nothing more, nothing less.

Williams is actually a testament of his bad the club is run that despite everyone knows he has no chance in hell on making it here, he is still here. Same for Elanga. Players that we should have cashed out when their stock was higher than ‘will they make it in Championship?’.
 
Williams is actually a testament of his bad the club is run that despite everyone knows he has no chance in hell on making it here, he is still here. Same for Elanga.
This is certainly true. Two players that must have been disposed of long ago
 
Hang on, I am saying that United does not have the two best/most exciting young players in the league, which was what the other poster said. Nothing more, nothing less.

Williams is actually a testament of his bad the club is run that despite everyone knows he has no chance in hell on making it here, he is still here. Same for Elanga. Players that we should have cashed out when their stock was higher than ‘will they make it in Championship?’.

Yeah think a few arguments are getting conflated here. Sorry about that.
 
Garnacho had only one season. Do you rate Saka after his first season higher? His breakthrough was 19/20 season at the age of 18 with 38 appearances and 4 goals - now Garnacho also at 18 just had 36 appearances with 6 goals (and 6 assists)
FYI, Saka broke into our team as LB due to injuries (under Emery). Arteta then moved him to the wing, which is where he played in youth team.
 
FYI, Saka broke into our team as LB due to injuries (under Emery). Arteta then moved him to the wing, which is where he played in youth team.
But why should it matter? Due to injuries or otherwise - but he was given 38 appearances and proved himself. Garnacho has been just given 36 appearances and also proved himself at same age. Surely current Saka is better than current Garnacho, but Saka 3 years ago - perhaps not
 
But why should it matter? Due to injuries or otherwise - but he was given 38 appearances and proved himself. Garnacho has been just given 36 appearances and also proved himself at same age. Surely current Saka is better than current Garnacho, but Saka 3 years ago - perhaps not
But that's true of many players, other youngsters have had better seasons and turned out crap.
 
But why should it matter? Due to injuries or otherwise - but he was given 38 appearances and proved himself. Garnacho has been just given 36 appearances and also proved himself at same age. Surely current Saka is better than current Garnacho, but Saka 3 years ago - perhaps not
It matters because Saka playing at LB would obviously not have as many goals/assists, which is the direct comparison you made with Garnacho. Not taking anything away from Garnacho he's obviously a great talent, but just pointing out comparing with Saka at the same age who was playing in defence is not a like for like comparison.
 
Wages are a huge problem. Other teams that would be interested in the players you mentioned couldnt afford to match the financial pacakages the guys have at Utd.

Also we dont know how much involvement glazers have with the final say on buying/selling and they are notoriously slow to make decisions.

Anyway henderson leaving for forest on a permanent deal has been delayed until the keeper situatio has been sorted out.


That is true unless the player decided to go for less salary which they usually dont. The other option is Manutd being a subsidizing company for their wages and they can go on loan. It is still might be better than nothing as the club may save half their wages.
 
They had Joe Shields at Soton last summer, which would account for quite a few of those 9, Lavia, Bazunu, etc.

He was only there for like 4 months I think, but he did have a hand in one or two of them, Lavia being the main one.
 
They didn’t have similar (let alone better) seasons than Garnacho
Januzaj definitely have at least a similar season to Garnacho. After De Gea and probably Rooney, he might have been our best player that season.

Macheda scored a great goal and then the next match the ball hit him and ended in the goal. That was essentially his contribution, so I agree that Garnacho had a far better season.
 
Januzaj definitely have at least a similar season to Garnacho. After De Gea and probably Rooney, he might have been our best player that season.
In 13/14 Januzaj had 35 appearances with 5 goals and 6 assists. Comparable
 
In 13/14 Januzaj had 35 appearances with 5 goals and 6 assists. Comparable
Yep. But I think his all-round game was quite better and the team was seriously dependent on him, unlike in case of Garnacho which is used more as an impact sub.

For large part of that season, the Moyes strategy was: a) cross and b) pass the ball to Januzaj.
 
There is bigger more troubling issue at hand here, rather than just the immediate response to the poor selling business, which is: unlike most of the other major clubs we have a terrible revenue stream from selling youth players. This isn't because of inflated salaries or exorbitant contracts but more to do with the fact that the youngsters coming out of our academy are not good enough for the PL or even championship.

I have had this view of our academy going back to the SAF days...we recruited coached or trainers more on their loyalty or 'Utd DNA' than modern coaching techniques or ability. Hence the output is also dated and not up to current PL standards, and I will not be convinced that a club of Utd's stature has difficulty attracting the youngsters for the academies who choose to go to City! I was very pleased to hear that ETH was also going to take overall charge of the under 21s and youth academies as only this will ensure that we move away from the tired trope that the youth coaches have to have the 'Utd DNA' whatever on earth that is meant to imply! Perhaps in time this will improve the quality of the youngsters both the first team and our transfer activities.
 
Yep. But I think his all-round game was quite better and the team was seriously dependent on him, unlike in case of Garnacho which is used more as an impact sub.

For large part of that season, the Moyes strategy was: a) cross and b) pass the ball to Januzaj.
So he saw more of the ball, played about 1000 more minutes than Garnacho and didn't suffer a potentially season ending injury yet he still had fewer goals and assists. Context is important if we're going to compare the two.

That Januzaj season is wildly overrated because of the 2 goals against Sunderland and how bad we were in general.
 
Wouldnt it be nice if we could get on with our business ins and outs quietly and efficiently like our major rivals.

Everytime we are in for a player it becomes a long drawn out saga and we end up overpaying. Teams will always reject our first bid and demand much more. We are just too predictable.
Likewise when we want to move players on, because of inflated wages, full sales just dont appeal and we end up having to loan players out or give them away. Again too predictable.

Its all to do with planning and strategy for me. We need a complete revamp of our transfer team and policy--- we cant be the laughing stock forever.