The perennial struggle to sell

T00lsh3d said:
I remember Longstaff and thought about quoting him in my list :lol:
I see Conor Gallagher today being quoted at 50M. Is he really a difference in quality/age/contract length to McTominay? Different types of player obviously, but same level, both not quite good enough for a top club.
I think the problem we have as fans as we tend to look down on our own players a lot, undervaluing them.
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I agree on that front, but we are also such a badly run club that we grant them top player's contracts, which in effect makes them less valuable. With Gallagher, on the back of the Palace loan I thought he was outstanding, but he's had a poor season. I'd take him over both Fred and McTominay, but that could be, as you say, because of the negative bias towards our own.
 
FootyGirl88 said:
People are mentioning wages but Chelsea players are not on peanuts and they manage to sell their players just fine. I’ve seen that Havertz was on £300k and they manage to sell him for £60mil?
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No one credible has reported Havertz was on £300k per week. Spotrac has him at £150k per week, which is in line with reports that we paid him 4-5 times as much as he was making at Leverkusen.
 
Solius said:
Beckham to Real Madrid for £25m in 2003 is still our fourth highest sale ever.
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We got the same for Daniel James! Best bit of business this club has ever done. Both buying and selling wise.
 
Rozay said:
A number of reasons.

I think the narrative surrounding players shouldn’t be disregarded. By and large, our players are viewed as failures, as they were all brought in to help us win the league and we don’t. Sometimes we don’t even qualify for the Champions League. The conversation surrounding the club is always that of under achievement and that is the case with the players. In reality, these players are still better than, and finish above players viewed in a more positive light. But relative to expectation, all our players are seen as rubbish.

Someone like Maguire will have fans of any club outraged for going for him. He is seen as shit, but the reality is more a case of shit for United, not for West Ham. Those clubs want to sign promising players, while ours are all a bit damaged and judged.

If you compare that to City or Liverpool - their squads are seen as the standard, and clubs would love the opportunity to take even some of their fringe players who are title winners and simply unlucky to not be able to break into the best team in the league. Chelsea have a different model where they keep players on loan to retain value. But yea, even fringe players are seen as more valuable when you contribute to success rather than contribute to failure. Any player at Brighton will probably have a higher stock than those at United, despite United simply being better and finishing above them because Brighton are seen to have had an impressive season and not us. In fact, we are seen to be impressive this season, but even last season - we struggled to sell and were lambasted but still finished above teams like Brighton but just a different narrative.
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Agree with all of this but the only other addition to this would be the wages.

If we pay players according to their capability (assuming numbers based on my perception of players), McTominay (50k), Fred (50k), Maguire (80k) etc., these players would comfortably be able to get a raise if they move to a mid-table club and then stand out basis their relative quality. And there is no reason for us to overpay the players because in most cases, we have no competition.

In addition to the reasons you've listed in your post, we also expect mid-table clubs to break their wage ceilings as well as pay a large transfer fee. A club like West Ham should feel lucky if McTominay or Maguire could be part of their squads since both are a level above what they currently have. But our terrible social media fanbase (especially twitter) is also quite damaging to us in terms of how our players are perceived outside of our club.
 
This summer feels like the perennial struggle to both buy and sell due to takeover farce
 
I'd love to know what we do in the months leading up to the summer. Do we approach clubs and agents about selling our players? Do we tell our unwanted players to have their agents find them a new club? Or do we wait until the season ends and find ourselves behind all the clubs that have been planning their ins and outs for months?
 
Big Ben Foster said:
I'd love to know what we do in the months leading up to the summer. Do we approach clubs and agents about selling our players? Do we tell our unwanted players to have their agents find them a new club? Or do we wait until the season ends and find ourselves behind all the clubs that have been planning their ins and outs for months?
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I’d go with the last one and irrespective of sale. Year after year we are shit.
 
There's been 13 certified transfers so far this window in the premiership.
Everyone is struggling to sell currently bar Chelsea whom it's obvious needed to sell.

But United in recent history have never been a selling club, we have never looked to make a profit from a player, pretty sure Sir Alex alluded to this in one of his autobiographies.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
- Absurdly high wages
- Hanging on to players for too long instead of "failing fast", resulting in their market value eroding
- Giving players the comfortable option of remaining as a squad player instead of telling them "leave or you don't play at all"
- Judging by how reactive we are with buying players, I assume we're the same way with selling. Meaning we're not approaching agents and clubs during the season, and instead end up scrambling in July and August.
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Yep this mostly nails it. The second part especially for me. We've had numerous opportunities to sell in the past but much like our buying we like to wait until the value is no longer there. Maguire last summer a perfect example: We could have told him to feck off to Chelsea and they would have gladly paid us 50m. Lingard after his loan at West Ham would have been a great piece of business selling for 20m or so. McTominay has been coveted for a while but we've kept him around years longer than we should have until now we finally HAVE to sell and thus the price is lower. Wan Bissaka and Dalot have both had good value in the market. And yet none of these players have been sold at all let alone for a good fee when the reality is we wouldn't really miss any of them (besides the RB's, and let's be honest both are replaceable).

It's the overarching theme of the club for the past decade. They are reactive with everything, instead of being proactive. Wait until scouted players become genuine superstars before trying to buy them. Let our own failed transfers fail for years decimating their value before trying to sell. Never look to sell anyone until we are absolutely strapped for cash. All symptoms of a club ran like shite.
 
I think the problem with Sancho is his wages.

Maguire if you sold in 2021before the cat got out of the bag you may have got a decent fee for him.

You haven't always failed at it though, you managed to get your money back for Lukaku before the world finally caught on to how big a chancer he is.
 
1) Paying 35% more than the market rate on pretty much all salaries (which has to be offset by a reduced fee), often because we let contracts run down and fear losing them on a free.

2) Holding onto players (sometimes because of unrealistic valuations linked to 1), sometimes on the flawed belief that something will miraculously change in their 3rd season) until in the eyes of a potential buyer they've become unequivically, demonstrably and almost certainly irreversibly shite.

3) Not having shady relationships with Chinese, Russian or now Saudi representatives.
 
Arsenal has difficulty to sell unwanted players as well. It happens to every club and nothing new. Arsenal paid up Ozil, Aubameyang and release them for free. Mkhitaryan, Mustafi, Papastathopoulos, Cambers, Willian, Luiz, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Lacazette, Maitland-Niles all left for free. Pepe, Mari, Soares probably will be release for free as well. Arsenal sold Torreira for 6m, and Guendouzi for 11m.
 
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We need to cash in on Greenwood. We'll probably catch a bit of shit for cashing in on him but he's an asset and there are clubs who won't give a shit about his deeds, so it's on them not us as far as I'm concerned.

It would go a long way to helping support transfers in this summer.
 
Solius said:
Beckham to Real Madrid for £25m in 2003 is still our fourth highest sale ever.
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And didnt they pay in installments? I also recall some stat about them making the money back in shirt sales almost immediately

People used to say that the "only way is down" after leaving United, but that's just not the case. A good player, is a good player. Maguire would do a top job in Italy (or in any team that defends deep for that matter). Martial with his pace and skill should be attracting attention. Sancho bags of potential. Fred has had a top season, the list goes on.

The bottom line is that other clubs see United as a bottomless pit who will pay over the odds and sell cheap. No idea how you change that perception without several years of missing out on all the best players?!?
 
It's not very confusing or strange in the examples given.

Havertz is better than Sancho. Simple. That's why he had a willing buyer and Sancho would have speculative buyers that may be willing to loan him but nobody is interested in him on his ludicrous wages because he's been that poor. You can think what you want on Havertz but he has shown more ability than Sancho.

Maguire - we don't really know the situation. It's still quite early in the window. He may not want to actually leave, which makes it harder when he's on high wages. We're relying on him wanting to leave to play first team football but if he's not playing that hand it makes it extraordinarily difficult because we can't sell him to a rich club. We're relying on a lesser team plucking up the money and that situation needs compromise from Maguire.

The Rashford one is imagination. Rashford isn't on the market.
 
sugar_kane said:
We need to cash in on Greenwood. We'll probably catch a bit of shit for cashing in on him but he's an asset and there are clubs who won't give a shit about his deeds, so it's on them not us as far as I'm concerned.

It would go a long way to helping support transfers in this summer.
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Or even his alleged ones.
 
Nickelodeon said:
If we pay players according to their capability (assuming numbers based on my perception of players), McTominay (50k), Fred (50k), Maguire (80k) etc.
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When we sign a player for £60m, £70m or £80m, that player will demand a salary commensurate with their purchase price. Secondly, we wouldn't sign high earning players with high transfers fees if we knew they were rubbish when they were signed. The issue is we had rubbish managers who signed the wrong players at expensive prices on large salaries.
 
Erik the Red said:
When we sign a player for £60m, £70m or £80m, that player will demand a salary commensurate with their purchase price. Secondly, we wouldn't sign high earning players with high transfers fees if we knew they were rubbish when they were signed. The issue is we had rubbish managers who signed the wrong players at expensive prices on large salaries.
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Don’t really agree with it. Had we told Maguire that we’ll pay him 100k a week, would/could he have said no? Chelsea have paid big fees for players like Mudryk and Enzo but they aren’t paying them Sancho or even Maguire level wages. It’s a problem which is our own making.
 
Should the club sell, or sell the club. That is the question.
 
Erik the Red said:
When we sign a player for £60m, £70m or £80m, that player will demand a salary commensurate with their purchase price. Secondly, we wouldn't sign high earning players with high transfers fees if we knew they were rubbish when they were signed. The issue is we had rubbish managers who signed the wrong players at expensive prices on large salaries.
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They can demand whatever they like, but we can also say no. What's their option then? Either stay where they are and earn far less anyway, or choose another club and still earn less than the obscene amounts we've been offering. Either way there's absolutely no reason to be paying players like Sancho, Maguire, Martial and De Gea the wages they're on
 
I was happy with the money we got for Lukaku and Dan James. Di Maria to an extent as well. Other than that, not really. Pogba (twice), Matić, Mata, Herrera they all left for free. Was obvious with Mata for years that his time at United is up but he only left last year.
 
DevilRed said:
Nobody wants Martial. He's just shite and on too high wages.

I'm sure if we flogged Maguire we'd get a decent fee back.

But teams know we are desperate to sell in order to buy. Every summer we have very little leverage due to our amateurish approaches for players and lack of planning.
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yeah but Chelsea has been desperate to sell as well and they’ve managed to get on with it.
 
It's embarrassing. That's all. Same goes for transfers in. We just kinda fold and accept the top valuations selling clubs places on their players. 60 mill for Mount with one year left on his contract? We suck.
 
ThierryHenry14 said:
Arsenal has difficulty to sell unwanted players as well. It happens to every club and nothing new. Arsenal paid up Ozil, Aubameyang and release them for free. Mkhitaryan, Mustafi, Papastathopoulos, Cambers, Willian, Luiz, Kolasinac, Bellerin, Lacazette, Maitland-Niles all left for free. Pepe, Mari, Soares probably will be release for free as well. Arsenal sold Torreira for 6m, and Guendouzi for 11m.
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Yeah it's pretty much only Man City who are decent with sales. But that's because the players who are leaving them are wanting play time, not because they've been bad. Easy to sell Sterling for as much as they did when he's got a good track record.

Havertz being sold for as much as he has been sold for is an anomaly.

All the big clubs struggle to offload players. The ones they do sell for a good amount are in the similar vein to Man City players or youth players who've shown potential and want playing time so another club will willingly pay a good fee for them.
 
The Stain said:
It's embarrassing. That's all. Same goes for transfers in. We just kinda fold and accept the top valuations selling clubs places on their players. 60 mill for Mount with one year left on his contract? We suck.
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It's not embarrassing. Some of you are sensitive :lol:
 
It’s the wage structure for me. Why was Sancho given over £350k per week based on his performances with Dortmund? That’s top level, prime player wages. He looked a good prospect but it’s obvious even £150-200k he would have joined United.

Same with Maguire. He came from fecking Leicester to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. Do we need to double his salary to persuade him to join?

The club negotiators can’t negotiate.
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s the wage structure for me. Why was Sancho given over £350k per week based on his performances with Dortmund? That’s top level, prime player wages. He looked a good prospect but it’s obvious even £150-200k he would have joined United.

Same with Maguire. He came from fecking Leicester to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. Do we need to double his salary to persuade him to join?

The club negotiators can’t negotiate.
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It is actually so ridiculous. We were the only ones in for him, and he wanted to come here. Somehow, the people responsible for negotiating decided it was a good idea to just give a 20-21 year old £375k a week. I'm not even joking when I say that these people should be fired, if they haven't been already.
Like you already pointed out, he'd easily come for £150k a week, but now we're stuck with him until his contract expires.

Something crazy has to happen for him to make it here.
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s the wage structure for me. Why was Sancho given over £350k per week based on his performances with Dortmund? That’s top level, prime player wages. He looked a good prospect but it’s obvious even £150-200k he would have joined United.

Same with Maguire. He came from fecking Leicester to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. Do we need to double his salary to persuade him to join?

The club negotiators can’t negotiate.
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You do know Sancho was on £200k a week before joining United, right?
 
All the saudi clubs buying/wanting to buy Neves, Kante, B. Silva, Mendy, Koulibaly, Ziyech and so on...

Can someone please inform them of Telles, Bailly, Martial and some other players that are under contract with us?

How come they want to buy half of Chelseas deadwood for massive amounts? Smells fishy
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s the wage structure for me. Why was Sancho given over £350k per week based on his performances with Dortmund? That’s top level, prime player wages. He looked a good prospect but it’s obvious even £150-200k he would have joined United.

Same with Maguire. He came from fecking Leicester to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. Do we need to double his salary to persuade him to join?

The club negotiators can’t negotiate.
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Weren't City also apparently in for him. That is why we paid him those wages, which doesn't reflect well on Harry Maguire actuallu, us for money or Pep and trophies. We also gave him the captaincy, which City wouldn't have.
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s the wage structure for me. Why was Sancho given over £350k per week based on his performances with Dortmund? That’s top level, prime player wages. He looked a good prospect but it’s obvious even £150-200k he would have joined United.

Same with Maguire. He came from fecking Leicester to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. Do we need to double his salary to persuade him to join?

The club negotiators can’t negotiate.
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Because it's United?

His last contract with Dortmund was £190k/w (BBC report)
 
You can count on two hands the genuinely impressive fees United have obtained: Daniel James (£25m rising to £30m) Chris Smalling (£13.6m rising to £18m), Morgan Schneiderlin (£22m rising to £24m), Memphis Depay (£16m rising to £21.7m), Adnan Januzaj (£9.8m), Sam Johnstone (£6.5m rising to £10m), Daley Blind (£14.1m rising to £18.5m).

A precedent was set with David Beckham in 2003. Beckham was 28 at the time, one year into a five-year contract, he had the right foot to sow onto the Frankenstein's Monster of a footballer and he was the most marketable and recognisable soccer player on the planet.

The Real Madrid negotiator, Jose Angel Sanchez, struggled to keep his poker face in check during lunch with Peter Kenyon in Sardinia when informed of the asking price. He telephoned his boss, Florentino Perez: “Peanuts, they’re asking peanuts!”

"Push them lower!" Perez advised. Beckham was sold for £25m at the behest of Sir Alex Ferguson, weary of his celebrity. Only four United players have left for outright higher fees (Cristiano Ronaldo, Angel di Maria and Romelu Lukaku).
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Strange contracts, indecision and Van Gaal - why Manchester United struggle to sell players
 
Normally if we are selling someone it’s because they have failed or aged out. Which you’re unlikely to get vast amounts of money for.
However Sancho per example even if he is on 300k a week I’m sure we would fetch at least 60 mil for him if we decided to sell, he still has huge potential and has shown previously that when on it he can be one of the best in the world. Similar to Havertz, he’s shown previous form and is still at a good age.

Probably players worth taking a punt on for other clubs when available.
 
Josep Dowling said:
It’s the wage structure for me. Why was Sancho given over £350k per week based on his performances with Dortmund? That’s top level, prime player wages. He looked a good prospect but it’s obvious even £150-200k he would have joined United.

Same with Maguire. He came from fecking Leicester to join one of the biggest clubs in the world. Do we need to double his salary to persuade him to join?

The club negotiators can’t negotiate.
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Yeah this is totally down to Toy Story puppet and his old uni mate Judge. They have been making a rod for their own backs with this for too long
 
Karel Podolsky said:
Because it's United?

His last contract with Dortmund was £190k/w (BBC report)
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So you think a players wages should be doubled because he joined us? He’s in his early 20s and achieved nothing in his career. Paying nearly £400k per week I’d expect De Bruyne levels of consistency.
 
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