Martial seems a prime target for a Saudi club surely. They will match (at least his wages) and be pleased to have a player of his profile at just 27.
The perennial struggle to sell
- Thread starter RedStarUnited
- Start date
This.
I think we're actually quite skint, and because we've made such a rod for our own back with paying stupid wages and transfer fees in the past, we're hesitant to let players go due to the likely cost of replacing them. Basically the Woodward legacy.
Oh yeah The Toy Story puppet strikes again
We keep players until they are worn off / everyone realizes they are shite.
Top club must be ruthless. We are everything except that. At this moment you have McT and Maguire for who we can get 50-60 mil fee combined. But both want "to fight for their place". In other words they are perfectly happy with 15 games per season in United instead being starters for Everton or Villa.
Also, unlike City and Liverpool, who sell their young players for top prices, we stick with them too long. We just lost Tuanzebe for free and we will be lucky if we will get 5 mil for Williams. Few years ago was the time to sell them
Actually moat clubs can pay the transfer fees. But absolutely nobody can pay the wages. So the players are settled here for live. Even when players move, they need to take cuts on salary.
It’s wages we pay full stop.
Mid table sides aren’t going to buy martial / Maguire / Fred on £200k+ a week would completely shatter their wage structure.
Sort out what we pay players who we sign and the problem of trying to shift them when we need to goes away.
Mid table sides aren’t going to buy martial / Maguire / Fred on £200k+ a week would completely shatter their wage structure.
Sort out what we pay players who we sign and the problem of trying to shift them when we need to goes away.
Fans are also certain factor in that. United fans are gentlemen. Sounds funny but we are. Regarding this topic, it is not something which is good. When was last time when some of our players got "booed"? They can steal a living, play like shit, not care and whatever but they will always get support during the game.
Real fans booed even Ronaldo and Benzema after few bad games. Umtiti (Barca's Jones) was bashed by fans for refusing to leave.
To be clear; i would also rather play 10 games per season for United for 100k (and win possible trophies) than be a starter for Leeds or Villa for 50k.
Wow
Brilliant this.
Giving mediocre players massive wages certainly doesn’t help, but I think when everyone knows your position it probably makes bargaining difficult.
We’re probably locked in negotiations with clubs right now who are lowballing the feck out of us, as the world and his dog knows we need to raise funds for a striker. Why wouldn’t you try and offer 10m for Maguire, when everyone connected with football knows your entire fan base want him gone and you need cash?
Plus unlike other clubs who are broke or need to sell to buy, such as your Serie A tightarses, we aren’t in the market for cast offs, ageing players whose legs have gone etc - we’re shopping for top quality players at their peak. There’s a lot fewer of them about, so less supply and lots of demand means big money.
So basically we’re in a bit of a shit situation whenever we sit down at a table to thrash out a deal, whether that player is coming or going. There’s exceptions obviously, when we sell a player we don’t want to sell we’ve gotten good money - see Ronaldo. The problem is we’re usually actively trying to shift a load of players, players who everyone has seen under perform at the most scrutinised club in the world.
We’re probably locked in negotiations with clubs right now who are lowballing the feck out of us, as the world and his dog knows we need to raise funds for a striker. Why wouldn’t you try and offer 10m for Maguire, when everyone connected with football knows your entire fan base want him gone and you need cash?
Plus unlike other clubs who are broke or need to sell to buy, such as your Serie A tightarses, we aren’t in the market for cast offs, ageing players whose legs have gone etc - we’re shopping for top quality players at their peak. There’s a lot fewer of them about, so less supply and lots of demand means big money.
So basically we’re in a bit of a shit situation whenever we sit down at a table to thrash out a deal, whether that player is coming or going. There’s exceptions obviously, when we sell a player we don’t want to sell we’ve gotten good money - see Ronaldo. The problem is we’re usually actively trying to shift a load of players, players who everyone has seen under perform at the most scrutinised club in the world.
We have a lot of issues making it difficult to sell including paying silly transfer fees which we can't recoup, crazy wages , injury prone players and players with low resale value due to their age.
We are also way too tentative in deciding to sell players when they still have value. You look at the likes of VDB, Henderson, Lingard, Bailly, Jones, Telles etc. We had the chance to sell all of them but instead kept them or loaned them out or waited for their contract to expire even when they were surplus to requirements.
Basically our entire recruitment strategy has been a shambles for many years.
We are also way too tentative in deciding to sell players when they still have value. You look at the likes of VDB, Henderson, Lingard, Bailly, Jones, Telles etc. We had the chance to sell all of them but instead kept them or loaned them out or waited for their contract to expire even when they were surplus to requirements.
Basically our entire recruitment strategy has been a shambles for many years.
I think if you'd look at it differently you'd likely value them less highly. Imagine McTominay or Fred playing at Fulham. I can understand why Fulham are trying to price Palhinha out of a move, because he's midfield destroyer who has played very well for them and has always looked good when I watched them (I also thought he looked good at Sporting and for Portugal).
Maddison is England tax and he's in a bracket above both Fred and McTominay. Leicester won't get that amount for him, but they're trying all they can to recoup some money for the storm in the Championship. Neves has always been linked to United, Barca, and even City I think, and Wolves have for a long while massively overpriced their players (there was talk 3 years ago or so that Traore wouldn't be sold for less than 150m, so they like to take the p). That's not worked for them though, as no one has come knocking with huge fees.
The major anomaly I remember here is Longstaff rated at 50m (which would likely translate to 75m or so in today's market).
I think McTominay is a decent squad player for a none elite side to have, so Newcastle for 30m is a pretty fair deal in my view. Fred with a year left on his deal on a wage around 120k which would make him the top earner for most clubs is a hard sell. If we manage to get 10m for him I'll be impressed, but he's a decent squad option too and likely a very good player for a midtable club.
It is of course most important to get decent fees for Henderson, Williams, McTominay and Elanga, as they'll offset quite a lot in terms of FFP. McTominay and Henderson are the obvious money makers here, hopefully we can get around 55-60m for the pair of them. If we can somehow get 10m for Williams and Elanga, each, that would be great business.
Self inflicted
It’s been mentioned before that United don’t know how to play the dark arts that other top clubs play in the transfer market (like Chelsea have with the Saudi thing)
It's no great mystery - Sancho is on crazy wages, more than twice what Havertz earns, for example. Martial is on crazy wages and always injured.
There has to be a willingness on the part of the player to move too, don't forget. If you were Sancho, why would you force a move? I wouldn't, I'd sit and take my £20m a year.
I doubt were struggling to sell Maguire, I'm sure there will be 5 or 6 offers once the window opens from the likes of Spurs and West Ham. Likewise McTominay, sure the likes of Everton, West Ham + others will be interested.
Finally...many of the players Chelsea have sold have gone for minimal fees. Kante, free. Ziyech, £8m. Kovacic, £25m. If players of that quality left us for those fees, people would complain.
Also...I don't think its fair that the current regime are tarred by the same brush as Woodward/Judge.
In technology, people talk about "technical debt', in relation to mistakes or workarounds in software code that compound and cause problems years down the line.
We're effectively going to be paying our technical debt for Woodward's sheer incompetence for at least 2/3 seasons yet.
For example, it was Woodward who sanctioned £350K per week for Sancho. It was Woodward who resigned the likes of Bailly on long term deals. It was Woodward who paid Martial £250K per week.
These are not decisions Murtough and Arnold can just undo. They will have to live with those mistakes.
I do like what I am seeing so far from Arnold and Murtough. We seemed to have learnt a few lessons and are moving in the right direction
In technology, people talk about "technical debt', in relation to mistakes or workarounds in software code that compound and cause problems years down the line.
We're effectively going to be paying our technical debt for Woodward's sheer incompetence for at least 2/3 seasons yet.
For example, it was Woodward who sanctioned £350K per week for Sancho. It was Woodward who resigned the likes of Bailly on long term deals. It was Woodward who paid Martial £250K per week.
These are not decisions Murtough and Arnold can just undo. They will have to live with those mistakes.
I do like what I am seeing so far from Arnold and Murtough. We seemed to have learnt a few lessons and are moving in the right direction
You say that but according to this place Antony is on 200k a week. How is that we got fleeced by both Ajax and the players agents, when we were the only team in for him?
Probably the high wages we pay is the cause of poor sales records. Who wants to pay 180k basic for Sancho even if his transfer fee is affordable?.
I think we should counter this problem in our contract structures, maybe by offering less years on the contract offers or we could structure the deal in such a way to balance out the high wages with even more add on clauses.
Either way the current situation has to change, I think holding onto players for too long absolutely affects their sell on value because their performances could drop during their 'For Sale' period.
I think we should counter this problem in our contract structures, maybe by offering less years on the contract offers or we could structure the deal in such a way to balance out the high wages with even more add on clauses.
Either way the current situation has to change, I think holding onto players for too long absolutely affects their sell on value because their performances could drop during their 'For Sale' period.
as usual like the past 10 years every manager had to fight with the board about selling players and its not changing now.
As we all know Joel and his cnut siblings are forcing the sales(mainly the ones with greater value) and purchases of some players that Erik and Murtough wants in and out.
As we all know Joel and his cnut siblings are forcing the sales(mainly the ones with greater value) and purchases of some players that Erik and Murtough wants in and out.
I remember Longstaff and thought about quoting him in my list
I see Conor Gallagher today being quoted at 50M. Is he really a difference in quality/age/contract length to McTominay? Different types of player obviously, but same level, both not quite good enough for a top club.
I think the problem we have as fans as we tend to look down on our own players a lot, undervaluing them.
Just read somewhere we are selling Iqbal for a million euros?
I swear when we were negotiating contracts we were literally looking for the players to be our best friends because it defies all logic. In the case of Sancho and Maguire, both were desperate to leave their clubs and we were the only ones willing to pay the fees. There was no reason to offer such a massive pay increase to what they were getting at their previous clubs. Even De Gea who at most would’ve gotten 225K from Madrid, we had to pay to keep him, I don’t think we would’ve had to pay him 375K to keep him.
The caf could probably crowdfund that to have him do tricks for our entertainment or something. Actually we should do that and get into the agent business as a hivemind.
Our biggest problem is that we dilly-dally for too long. If Havertz had stayed for one more season, he would have probably gone for half that fee. The likes of Maguire and De Gea could have been sold for very high fees if we had tried seriously two seasons back.
We dilly-dally with incompetence.
We dilly-dally with incompetence.
Our problem is not selling.
Our problem is overvaluation of players wage
When we give the likes of Sancho 300k that sealed our hope of ever selling them.
Forget decent price, clubs wont even entertain bidding them for free due to their wages.
Our problem is overvaluation of players wage
When we give the likes of Sancho 300k that sealed our hope of ever selling them.
Forget decent price, clubs wont even entertain bidding them for free due to their wages.
You have totally nailed it
Pay too high a transfer fee
Pay too much as wages
Keep hold of players too long
Indecisiveness across the board
Mediocre quality executives
Glazers
Pay too much as wages
Keep hold of players too long
Indecisiveness across the board
Mediocre quality executives
Glazers
Yeah has been awfully run for years
Definitely the biggest issue. It’s emblematic of being poorly run in general. Who is going to even consider signing Martial and Sancho with their wages? Clubs have better and easier options than getting into that mess.
I’ve accepted that nothing will fundamentally change until new owners come in. I’ll happily take top 4 next season if offered right now. Hard to see us making enormous strides with this lot on charge. Just hope ETH isn’t a casualty of their ponderous sale.
We hold onto shit players on high wages for far too long, I've said it before, if a player can't make it here within 2 (big money signings) or 3 (young players with "potential") then they likely never will and we should get rid.
Look at Havertz, Chelsea getting what they paid for him when he was highly rated in Germany, he didn't make it in three years so sell while his stick is still somewhat high.
I have no doubt that we'll give Sancho a new contract sometime soon, with a nice big bump in his wage too.
Look at Havertz, Chelsea getting what they paid for him when he was highly rated in Germany, he didn't make it in three years so sell while his stick is still somewhat high.
I have no doubt that we'll give Sancho a new contract sometime soon, with a nice big bump in his wage too.
Are you serious? That's just astonishing.
I don't think £200K is that out of whack. It's on the higher side but it's not ludicrous to the point it makes selling him prohibitive. Remember in OGS' final season we handed out £350K to Varane, £350K to Sancho and £500K to Ronaldo. We also paid Sanchez £500K per week and DDG was on £375K.
Our wages
And we are giving Rashford £375k a week
we never learn
And we are giving Rashford £375k a week
we never learn
200K is not even accurate figure, it was reported by mirros and these crap sites copied it and somehow it became gospel.
Wages. Nothing more to it really.
The problem is not just wages, we are not brave enough in the market and always hold on to players too long in the hope of them getting better or with a fear of the deal will bite us in the future. Our transfer moves are too cowardly and also we are not ruthless when it comes to trimming the squad.
We keep loaning out the players and I don't know if any of the decision makers are held responsible for squandering so much money.
We keep loaning out the players and I don't know if any of the decision makers are held responsible for squandering so much money.
People are mentioning wages but Chelsea players are not on peanuts and they manage to sell their players just fine. I’ve seen that Havertz was on £300k and they manage to sell him for £60mil?