I do wonder how much it helped him with his durability too. The guy basically never got injured once Guardiola arrived. I remember he had some mad hyperextension impact injury in 2011 or 2012 that looked like it'd keep anyone out for a few months and he returned weeks later.
The Overlap | Fan Debate Christmas Special
- Thread starter Buchan
- Start date
We pretty much got the better of Juve almost every time we played them from 99 onwards. I can't recall a defeat or a bad performance against them after 99 in the 00s.
The games against Ac Milan in 2005 were where we got outclassed in two 1-0 defeats. Could be those games?
The games against Ac Milan in 2005 were where we got outclassed in two 1-0 defeats. Could be those games?
Keane's joke about Mick Hucknall starting absolutely ended me.
That's also because Pep has that doctor, Cugat, who all the City players use (literally they fly them out to Barca for injuries). Think he was Pep's doctor and also was when Pep was done himself for doping.
Weird observation, but I notice in the last few episodes they've started to curse. They didn't used to. Kinda thought Sky wouldn't let that fly.
Yeah that Milan side that dominated us in 05 & 07 were on another level in terms of intensity and aggression.
Gattuso, it was like he was on crack.
Gattuso, it was like he was on crack.
You do realise that Messi was doing what he did in his senior years even before he went to Barcelona for treatment. He played exactly the same way and was already a different level of talent to anyone else.
He had a growth hormone deficiency that required supplementation, nothing abnormal about that. And that growth hormone was only used in his teenage years. If you watch his games at 18/19, his principal weakness was lack of upper body strength; if HGH was being used to some illegal advantage, he'd have put on muscle much faster.
That's not what happened or what HGH does...you don't just get hench from taking PEDs unless you're training to get massive, which he wouldn't have been. He stopped when he was 14. Never said he wouldn't still have been a great player but when you look at all these great players, Neymar, Rooney, Ronaldinho who are the level below Messi, they were all exceptional as kids, scoring like 10 goals a game and just dominating, that's not unique to Messi at all.
Point being, I wonder if after some time and more understanding people will be able to prove (or disprove) it gave him a competitive advantage, going through puberty on a doping programme.
It wasn't a doping programme at all. It was replacement to bring his levels to normal.
And non of the players you mentioned actually dominated the way Messi did at a very very young age.
Yeah I'm not trying to get into a debate about how good or not he'd have been, it's just factual that this happened.
Funny how Neville & Carragher both got their make up done at the start in the latest episode....no one touched Keane though!
Wonder if he refuses to have make up done?
Wonder if he refuses to have make up done?
I have seen them touching his face up before episodes before, not the latest one though.
Rooney ep tomorrow.
Just seen it advertised. One of the best things to watch every week. Be interesting to hear about Rooney's football career as well as his managerial experience.
Found the stuff on Moyes interesting - I think it's easy and fair to criticise players for not respecting Moyes immediately/giving him a chance, but even still, sub-consciously, going from SAF to Moyes must be difficult for any player, and even if he had got a fairer crack, his methods still would have been found wanting in the long run.
Also, LVG is a properly fascinating (mad) bloke.
Also... is Rooney the greatest teenager in Prem history? Can only think of Owen or Fabregas that would be up there with him unless I'm forgetting someone?
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The X Factor tv story. 
I hope we get some more mad Louis stories one day 
They should invite him on for an episode
They should invite him on for an episode
It might have helped him physically but it's his brain that's doing the damage on the pitch. No amount of PEDs can make a player do what he does, that's pure unadulterated Autism.
Pep's Barca's squad around that time had very few injuries.
Didn't think it was the best interview. I wanted them to focus more on his playing career but most of it was centered around his managerial career. In saying that, he seems to say a lot Rooney without saying anything or essential repeating what he's just said with different words.
Listening to that mental LvG's post training routine, it isnt a surprise that he completely lost the dressing room.
Wrighty and Keane the prosecution lawyers heavy metal gegenpressing GNev about his billion pound bottle jobs line.
Whilst their opinions are definitely relevant in regards to mentality, the game in the 90s/00s etc, it does feel a bit like the older generation preaching to the younger. The game when they were playing compared to now is completely different. Gnev talking about how he played right back 20 years ago is completely different to the way fullbacks play now. The prime United teams had structure but not to the level of today, when they say things like "just ask the attacking mid to sit in for 10 minutes" etc yeah they may have been empowered to do that on the pitch when things were more fluid but I doubt if you're playing for Pep that you can tell a player to not follow the instructions of Pep for 10 minutes. These system teams rely on players playing their positions/roles specifically and following the instructions of the manager to a T. Even the discussion about Kobbies positioning in the beginning of the Fulham match, if Martinez was playing he would have been on the player behind Kobbie as he plays way more aggressive than Maguire (which this system requires) to then allow Kobbie to push up. When they commentate they do it from lens of 20 years ago, would be good if they could get add someone who is a bit younger and has experience of playing/coaching these system teams to give a different perspective.
Yet there is quite a difference between a Doping Program and a Health Treatment.
Doping might have faced later like I trully believe any major Pro Sport athlete faces when it comes to deal with recovering of injuries. But it's a mere speculation, legal and illegal durgs have been used and will be used since and for ever, in some caseswith the player not entirely understanding how and for what they are treating them.
Personally I think Neville’s comments were pathetic and it’s a shame that he doesn’t realise it.
Firstly, it’s just crass for a commentator on a major supposedly impartial network to be using derogatory phrases like that to put down one of the team’s. I don’t care about Chelsea but if my team had conceded in the last minute of a cup final would be a real punch in the gut and I certainly wouldn’t want the commentator adding salt to that particular wound.
Secondly, as Keane correctly says, teams miss opportunities and lose games they should have won, all the time. It happens to the best. To attach this label to what was also a very young team - albeit at dysfunctional club - is in very poor taste - because he didn’t say that they had let this match slip or froze on the night, but attached a label to them as if that is just who they are.
Is it sexist to say get rid of Jill Scott? I can't relate with anything she says. I know all the other players but not her. That's why this show has become popular because these are all well known ex players.
I actually think Chelsea did bottle it but at the same time I also think it was very harsh for Neville to say this about them, especially in the way he delivered that line. Keep in mind, despite all the talk of Klopp's kids, the average age of Chelsea's team was younger than the Liverpool team that finished the game, the one with all the kids on the pitch. So he's talking about a bunch of 20, 21 and 22 year olds here mostly.
I don't think it was that big of a deal personally but I understand why he got criticism for it.
It's a weird one as she actually has good banter and is decent about speaking about football but she doesn't have the same rapport that the rest of them do which is understandable.
I think she's great on here, think her and Keane seem to have a great relationship
I like Jill Scott and she seems to have a good bond with the rest of the guys, but she doesn't add much value to the show. I feel sorry for her in that a lot of the conversation drifts her by and when she does have input, it's not ignored, well not entirely, but equally it very rarely leads to one of the others adding to or debating on a point she's just offered.
They definitely do, like hearing that.
I think she may be there more for her gender than anything else i.e represents female football. She adds nothing much.
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End of the day, Neville was pissed off Liverpool won it, and took it out on Chelsea. Carragher actually said that on the show.
Adds nothing and largely gets ignored. Don’t think the show needs more than five people. When they have a guest on and there’s six of them it seems a bit awkwardly crowded. Just have Neville, Carragher, Wright Keane + guest.
Obvious they want to promote women’s football but they’d probably have been better having some of the female players and manager on as a guest and have a focussed episode on women’s football.
Emma Hayes there instead would be brilliant
She seems a nice and funny person but yeah she has little to say and really no woman footballer could have much to say to relate in a room with those guys. Anyway Sky no doubt wanted a woman and she's the best of the women pundits/football personalities.
Pretty much. That's the only reason, and why viewers don't have a rapport.
I'm not sure that would have many views, no disrespect