Messi will probbaly go down as the greatest ever. Gotze is ome of the worlds best young players but he's not that.
The next Ballon d'Or winner that isn't Cristiano or Leo
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Messi won his first Ballon d'Or when he was 22.Classy @Balu. Im a FAN. Not every comment from me is neutral and 100% proved. If you dont like that, fine. But leave me alone then. You arent my former school teacher(although I think that you would like that
And you should think about the stuff you post. Annoying is one thing, offensive is another one.
And to all the guys who laugh at my Götze Messi comparison; dont compare the 27 year old Messi with the 22 Götze. Do it with the 22 year old and tell me that I cant get the idea of similar talent.
Hating(ignoring of facts) is happening by some in relation to Götze here. But Im the one who had fun so far with him.
Having fun....you should try it.
...until the next greatest ever, of course. Maybe not this decade, but within 30 years somebody will overshadow them all - for a while.
Not guaranteed to be the case, but if that happens were in for a treat.
No, not guaranteed - although you could argue that with infinite time there will always be somebody better eventually. 30 years ago we couldn't see past George Best.
I would love to see how good footballers in 2050 will be, I guess we'll just have to wait for the treat
If Madrid reign: Bale. If Barca reign: Neymar. If Bayern reign: Gotze.
Well I've been alive for 28 years and he's probably the best sportsman I've ever seen so ill be delighted if I ever see one better!No, not guaranteed - although you could argue that with infinite time there will always be somebody better eventually. 30 years ago we couldn't see past George Best.
I would love to see how good footballers in 2050 will be, I guess we'll just have to wait for the treat
Götze won the WC with 22 and can still have a Ballon d`OR level season with 22.
true that!
I'll bite.Götze won the WC with 22 and can still have a Ballon d`OR level season with 22.
Scoring in WC final doesn't mean you deserve to win the Ballon d'Or... and do you genuinely believe Gotze has a chance of winning the Ballon d'Or this year ahead of Ronaldo and Messi?
Eden Hazard
What...
No. Dont use my words. He is 22 this season and can work for the award of 2015.
But to your Ballon point. Messi winning that with 22 is mega but a WC win(scoring that goal too etc) is bigger.
Then what does "can still have a Ballon d`OR level season with 22.
" mean? I must've misunderstood what you were trying to say.Going by that logic Erik Durm and Matthias Ginter must also rival Messi, since you're using the point that WC is a bigger achievement than Ballon d'Or to say that "Only Messi rivals what he has done to his age." OK.
Arguably Gotze was the goal scorer in the final but that alone also doesn't mean Gotze rivals Messi like you said.
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Then what does "can still have a Ballon d`OR level season with 22.
Going by that logic Erik Durm and Matthias Ginter must also rival Messi, since you're using the point that WC is a bigger achievement than Ballon d'Or to say that "Only Messi rivals what he has done to his age." OK.
Arguably Gotze was the goal scorer in the final but that alone also doesn't mean Gotze rivals Messi like you said.
Come on now. You know what I mean. With the other parts of his career so far Marios achievements are similar to those of Messi at this age.
And in context of the career of a great player a WC win like Götzes (scoring the winning goal, having great games and so on) is bigger then one Ballon Dor.
You seem to put a lot of emphasis on club/int'l achievements ahead of individual ability to judge an individual player. While you shouldn't discount them, when it comes to Ballon d'Or goals and individual performances matter more. Not to mention international popularity which is gained from great individual performances. Again, going by your logic of WC > Ballon d'Or, the likes of Kleberson and Guivarch are comparable to the likes of Nedved and Baggio (in terms of individual abiltiy), which is a ludicrous suggestion.
As I've said Gotze is a great player by himself, no one here is saying he's mediocre or whatever (or at least hope not), but Messi at 22 was on another level, having already helped his side clinch the treble in addition to scoring 42 goals in all comps in the 08/09 season.
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I disagree. The guy is phenomenal. He's more than proved his leadership capabilities (at such a young age) for Brazil. When Messi falls off, he'll do the same for Barca. As for questioning his talent...I mean come on.
I agree. Dunno why he gets so much stick.
I tend to think that future generations won't idolize Messi as much as we do. After he retires and the dust settles down, he'll mostly likely be placed behind Maradona and Pele still, and more on the level of someone like Cruyff (or maybe slightly ahead depending on how the rest of his career goes).
Still, there's no question that he's a couple tiers above Gotze, even when he was Gotze's age.
I think it will be the opposite. Future generations will see the Youtube videos, the stats, his trophies, his ballon d'or's and think "how the feck can anyone not rate him as the greatest of all time?" All Maradona and Pele have over Messi is the WC.
Gotze is a very overrated player. I rate all of Bale, Neymar, Hazard ahead of him.
The YouTube videos and stats aren't what influence people the most. It's seeing him play. We watch Messi play week in and week out, and that more than anything affects our opinions of him. We can't look at him objectively because we're kind of experiencing his journey with him, we're too much in the moment to properly judge the moment, at least not in the same way that we judge past legends.
Very difficult to guess who could overthrow Messi or Cristiano but i'll go with Neymar. Bale, Hazard and Gotze are next in line I believe.
If Manchester rains?
On the other hand we see their flaws far more whereas the greats of the last seem to morph into a collection of their best bits. And I'm not sure why you think "we" can't look at current players objectively, unless you're a big fan of messi's or something?
I think he's already at the point, given his age, where he's going to be in the absolute top tier. Whether it's ahead of the others in that category or alongside them is probably what remains to be seen. The lack of World Cup might mean that it's alongside rather than ahead of. That's the feeling I get. Feck knows how all this pan out.
I think the script says it will be Neymar, provided he survives at the top level for long enough. He can do great things with his club and he's got the chance to "save Brazil."
But, of course, there are so many ifs and buts. No one knows how long the Messi-Ronaldo duopoly will survive. That it has survived this long isn't just a tribute to their talent, it's a tribute to their consistency.
They are freaks in that category. I can't make meaningful comparisons to Pele or Di Stefano, but I can compare them to Maradona, Cruyff, Best and many others. Their decision to fight on all fronts (club wise at least) makes them extraordinary. That they have owned the Ballon D'Or for 6 seasons (and probably 7) fits that pattern.
However the vote isn't an objective thing. It's subjective and emotional, there's a lot of inertia in the system, and a fair amount of politics. Boredom is a factor and so is guilt (I think last season's vote for Ronaldo was guilt over the 4:1 Messi win ratio not feeling quite right for example).
Behind Neymar, I guess there are a few - Gotze, Suarez maybe even James or Di Maria (I hope), but they've got a lot of catching up to do.
But, of course, there are so many ifs and buts. No one knows how long the Messi-Ronaldo duopoly will survive. That it has survived this long isn't just a tribute to their talent, it's a tribute to their consistency.
They are freaks in that category. I can't make meaningful comparisons to Pele or Di Stefano, but I can compare them to Maradona, Cruyff, Best and many others. Their decision to fight on all fronts (club wise at least) makes them extraordinary. That they have owned the Ballon D'Or for 6 seasons (and probably 7) fits that pattern.
However the vote isn't an objective thing. It's subjective and emotional, there's a lot of inertia in the system, and a fair amount of politics. Boredom is a factor and so is guilt (I think last season's vote for Ronaldo was guilt over the 4:1 Messi win ratio not feeling quite right for example).
Behind Neymar, I guess there are a few - Gotze, Suarez maybe even James or Di Maria (I hope), but they've got a lot of catching up to do.
I don't think Hazard will ever win it at Chelsea. At least not under Mourinho.
Surprised there's been no mention for Fabregas. If he keeps up his current form it's possible, even though unlikely.
He's the same age as Messi, so it's really hard to see him even competing for it.
Not really. Players like Fabregas can improve with age and keep their level up a lot longer than your flair dribblers like Messi can. Plus at the end of the day if Chelsea go on to win the lot and he plays his key role it could happen.
Messi is more than just a flair dribbler though. He has so much to his game that it's hard to see him diminish for a few years yet, by which time other players will have overtaken Cesc.
Messi is even a better playmaker than Cesc, one of the few in the world who can play a better final ball than him.
Not going to happen, and regardless of how good Fabregas is, Messi is the best playmaker in Europe. In fact, slot him anywhere along the attacking line and he's the best in that position.
I also don't think Fabregas will get the credit he deserves because of how his stint at Barcelona turned out, when in actual fact he was just badly misused there.
Yes but Barcelona are in decline, cant sign anyone for 2 years. Chelsea are ever improving, so I wouldn't bet on Messi winning that trophy again unless he moves clubs, which he won't.
Also I'd disagree slightly with the last bit. I thought Fabregas was a coward who hid when the going got tough. I think he was guilty of it a fair bit at Arsenal too. He was misused too though, thats true.
He was played out of position and never utilised properly. Unlike Xavi and Iniesta, who are quite contempt keeping it safe to amass a 100% pass competition ratio, he makes the more difficult pass, defence splitting ones, with no runner in that side he couldn't even do that when he played in midfield. Fabregas looks back to his best with us, controlling games and searching for runners, looks miles ahead of anything Barcelona have, and it's worrying for them they're now relying on Messi to do a dual role in midfield and attack cause Iniesta isn't pulling his weight anymore.
He didn't fit the system, so it's true that his direct style didn't really work out in the long run. Guardiola wanted him to provide 'anarchy ' as he put it, someone who could confuse defenders by providing a different approach. Which worked for a while, but then his form dropped and Guardiola left.
After that he played well for about half a season, against the smaller sides. He was useless against teams that pressed him hard though, because he couldn't turn away from them like Xavi can or accelerate away like Iniesta. He needs space to work and that's why he's better off in England, no one gives Barcelona time on the ball and more importantly no one gives much space in behind where Cesc can play his passes into.
Don't agree that he wasn't utilised right though. Iniesta was moved out to the left wing just so Cesc could play in the middle - even under Martino last season when Iniesta was off form it was amazing how Barcelona suddenly stepped it up in big games when Cesc got subbed and Iniesta went back into the middle.
The whole "Cesc always played false 9" thing is a myth created by people who don't watch Barcelona (not saying you fall into that category, know you watch them). He only played there when Messi was out.
Or in the case of a lot of the tougher games, he never made any pass at all because he was too busy hiding from the ball.
It's great to see Fabregas showing his talent and dominating in that Chelsea midfield the way we know he can, but he shat himself at Barca too many times, don't care what anyone says.