The new United era: how long are you prepared to give the new manager, before you lose patience?

I would be willing to give them a few seasons. obviously the amount of backing could speed or slow things down.

i would really like some consistency. I would not expect to consistently win against the top 4, but playing well and being competitive in the first season or two, and not dropping 5 out 6 points against teams like Watford is not too much to ask in the first season. obviously implementing a new system takes time, but just based on overall squad talent, we should be beating bottom tier teams.
 
Fans on a football forum will always over-react to a bad performance...so to answer the questions probably about 6 games haha.

But what's more alarming is the fact that the media and sky sports panel won't give the new manager much longer than that before moaning about the club. United sells papers so as soon as the buzz dies down for the new manager they will be pushing the drama and unrest again.

Its the most impressive characteristic Ralf has displayed...his ability to never get drawn into any dullshit and I hope the next manager can learn from him in that aspect.
 
If the club make no real efforts to rid us of the Shaw’s, Maguire’s, AWBs, McFred’s then I won’t blame whoever comes in honestly. Bar the product on the pitch Id like to see a huge overhaul of the squad in the next few years which would show people are moving on from our mistakes. If we’re still shoehorning in players who’ve shown us they’re not good enough then there’s not much a manager can do.
 
Progression has to be seen, improvement has to be seen and a clear identity of how he's going to play. This won't come in the first season. If the new Guy is ETH it's a new league for him so he will have to get used to it. How long we'll it's up to the new guy to prove how long .
 
unfair but I would give Ten Hag more time then I would Poch. (3 seasons to 2). that bias just comes from an expectation that Poch would do more of the same from what we have seen from post fergie hirings. spend money on big name players, get us back in the top 4 with above average play in spells for a season or two and then have a falling out after a weaker summer of transfers.
 
I'm all for giving new managers time, but if he hasn't sorted this shitshow out by September 1st he's a failure.
 
2 months after he is announced. and make sure it is announced more than 2 months before he joins. it would be a real power move to fire him before he even begins for not pulling his weight and would show future candidates and players that we’re not here to be taken for a ride and not to feck about.
 
Eckers99 said:
:lol:

If it's the latter, hopefully you'll do the right thing and post at least 10 critical posts a day on any and every thread about how you knew he was the wrong guy and all opposing views are just top reds being stuck in the past.
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Oh no doubt!
 
We all know who fans have set their heart on and we'll probably be more inclined to give EtH more time to implement his style than any other manager. It'll be like a more popular and less cantankerous LvG and he'll get two years of patience.

The interesting question is, how long would people give Poch given the fact that no one other than those in the media seem to want him? He'd get my full support as I like him a lot but i suspect some fans would never get on board with him from the start.

It is tricky and as easy as it is to say 'get behind the club and stand by the manager' as fans we're only human; we want the club to do well but if you have absolutely no confidence in the appointment it can be hard to keep faith. Moyes was a disaster, and personally I just had no faith in Ole at all from very early on. I hope if we do get Poch that people give him some time but as I said, that could be tricky with no belief.
 
Need a genuine title or CL challenge within the first 2 seasons.

If the new manager cannot achieve that, then I think it would be difficult for them to survive the 3rd season, as we have seen with Mourinho and Solskjaer, both of whom finished a distant 2nd.
 
First season is a bye for me as long as by the end say the last 3 months we can see improvement. After 2 windows the manager should have got at least 6 suitable players through the door and a substantial out the club.
Second season with another 2 windows should bring at least another 4-5 players in and some out, then we need to be looking at top 4 finish or a domestic cup at least.
Third season should be the big improvement by then the manager should have a team and half he can call his own. If we are still trophyless and not hitting top 4 then he needs moving on.
Whoever we pick (hopefully TH) and it is a failure, the club should stick to the principles and bring in another manager with at least 80% of the ethos of the sacked manager, so the players know what style positioning tactics etc is expected of them
 
horsechoker said:
Summer, Autumn, Winter?
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3 football seasons. In the 3rd season I want good results, challenging for PL and CL. I think the first season is going to need huge changes and is a write off to a certain extent.
 
I just want a manager that comes in and approach games like a big club. We are not the worst run club in football but our managers seem to be under the cloud of results and success to a point, they lose the direction they set out on.
Till that day I'll back him or her.
 
Given the amount of changes to the squad that are likely this summer I think next season is pretty much a free hit as long as we can see a clear playing style developing I don’t think a top 4 spot is a must.
The following season I think all we need to see is improvement from the previous and top 4 would be not a must and see signs that we can mount a proper title challenge.
So I’m short 3 years I think is about right
 
I think it depends on how astute we are in the market. Its not just a matter of money. You could spend 150m and still have only 3 players in. That will do nothing to this team which is in severe need of a transformation. We need to be able to bring 5-6 quality players in a single window and things could turn around within the first year. Alternatively, we continue our slow rebuild approach from the last 10 years and we may not transform in the next 2-3 years.
 
fastwalker said:
By all accounts, United will shortly be appointing a new manager, who will be at the helm in time for the start of the new season and who is expected to lead the cup back to glory.

Over the years, as United fans, we have come to accept that we are some way off from both City and Liverpool and therefore do not expect to be competing for the Premier League title in the near future. Conventional wisdom is that the United side needs to be rebuilt. Depending on who you speak to, as many as 12 players in the current squad need to be shown the door. Then there is the club culture to consider. Culture is not a quick fix and will not properly change until many of the current crop are shipped out. Then there is coaching and tactics. It is clear that a modern, intense, high-pressing style of football is what United will be aiming for. However, we are some way away from that. In fact if learning from City and Liverpool is anything to go by, this will be developed painstakingly through trial and error. Some players will get injured others will not fancy it, whilst others will be up for it. Time will tell. Then there are the performances. Whilst performances are no guarantee of results they are a very strong indicator of trajectory. Needless to say, eventually, as performances improve and become more consistent results will follow.

The corollary of the above, is that if we are realistic this is a journey that even if it were linear, could take a while. The likelihood however, is that it will not be linear and there will be ups and downs and periods when it may well seem like it is not happening. Remember Pep's first season at City, finishing 3rd (a distant 15 points off the top) and Klopp's first full season at Liverpool, finishing 4th (an even more distant 17 points off the top).

So here's the rub, how patient are you willing to be with the new manager, before you lose patience? Are you prepared to see things get worse, even much worse and put your hope in the new manager to turn things around?
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Great thread. I think how we all react as ‘fans’ is going to be pretty important in giving a tone to the context for this major transformation.
I am inclined to say around three years, since realistically that’s what it going to take. But as others have observed, it will depend on backing from the club etc.
In addition, I think patience will -and I think should- be nurtured by the signs of progress in how we play and who we sign. Without some sign that we’re being well-coached people will lose it. Many will probably lose it anyway.
But yeah, three years and we should be contenders, given the provisos already pointed out in the thread.
Edit- one of the key factors to take us with the management will be that players are being bought to play together, ie on their suitability for the team, not shiny new accessories.
 
It's mostly about how the quality of football progresses at least for the first year or two.
 
Two years. No trophy or finals played and no top4 at the end of that window has to mean the sack.
 
So here's the rub, how patient are you willing to be with the new manager, before you lose patience? Are you prepared to see things get worse, even much worse and put your hope in the new manager to turn things around?
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The usual, about 3 weeks.
 
Given the squad and I hope 150mil or so investment, top 4 and a decent attacking style of play for the first season. Second season to be up there though not necessarily competing till the end for the title. Year 3 compete for the title.
 
It's not about the manager. It's about the people hiring (the people who hire) the manager.

If nothing has changed there, it doesn't matter. It's basically just luck. And it would take a tremendous amount of luck to hire a "manager" capable of simply transcending a dysfunctional setup.
 
If it’s clear that there is a genuine sense of direction with the club; building a style of play, a coherent transfer strategy etc, then I’d happily give the manager the time he needs to build the team to where it needs to be.

The obvious comparison is Klopp. He immediately gave Liverpool a style of play, he just started off not having either players able to do it week in week out, or the defence to cover for the attacking mentality. He built it up, got a few marquee signings and is now reaping the benefits.

That’s the model, we just need to find the right man to spearhead it.
 
fastwalker said:
The corollary of the above, is that if we are realistic this is a journey that even if it were linear, could take a while. The likelihood however, is that it will not be linear and there will be ups and downs and periods when it may well seem like it is not happening. Remember Pep's first season at City, finishing 3rd (a distant 15 points off the top) and Klopp's first full season at Liverpool, finishing 4th (an even more distant 17 points off the top).
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The key lesson here is to know what the best measures for progress actually are.

Take the 17/18 league season, for example. Liverpool finished 4th, 25 points off first. Whereas we finished 2nd, 6 points ahead of them.

Yet it wasn't hard to see which team was building towards something if you actually watched both teams play. It was certainly being pointed out by many on this forum at the time. And even if you were reluctant to recognise that through the eye-test, the underlying stats were spelling it out too. Liverpool were second only to City in terms of the expected stats that season.

It was similar with Pep in his first season. You could see the progress with the way he had them playing but even if you couldn't tell just by watching how much better they were in general play, the expected stats had them as the best in the league even as they finished third.

Whereas in the two years we finished second under Solskjaer and Mourinho both what we were watching in terms of general play and also those same expected stats were screaming that our apparent progress was built on sand. And so it proved.

So in terms of how much patience we give the new manager, I'd have a lot of patience when it comes to judging their results but a lot less patience when it comes to judging performances (whether measured through eye-test or stats). Because in terms of measuring long term progress, the latter is both more important and a more immediate way of judging manager impact. Which also means that if immediate results were good but without the performances backing it, I'd be sceptical.

In the long run, performances > results. And we should note improvements in performance within a few months. Even in the case of Rangnick (who isn't all that as a manager and has only been here for half a season) you can at least point to performance improvements if not results. I would expect the same from the new manager too.
 
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Jericholyte2 said:
If it’s clear that there is a genuine sense of direction with the club; building a style of play, a coherent transfer strategy etc, then I’d happily give the manager the time he needs to build the team to where it needs to be.

The obvious comparison is Klopp. He immediately gave Liverpool a style of play, he just started off not having either players able to do it week in week out, or the defence to cover for the attacking mentality. He built it up, got a few marquee signings and is now reaping the benefits.

That’s the model, we just need to find the right man to spearhead it.
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Yeah and if ETH comes to United, I think he really needs about 1-3 years too. To make a possession football system needs over 1 year to master at it. He must changes a lot of things like players mindset, transfers, tactics etc. I doubt that his first season in EPL will face a lot of new experiences that he‘ve never met before in his life like English media, pressure in locker room and stars powers.

For me, he wants 2-3 years to build his squad especially understanding the positional-play( very important in possession football), passing and great off-ball movement( which some United’s midfielders lack) and he wants some support from Glazer family in transfers markets.

United biggest advantage over Liverpool( my team) is Glazer family is a lot richer than FSG . They should hire a right man in the right job ( like football director or anything beside manager).
 
The main problem at United is the transfer purchase system that gave us Ronaldo, Sancho and VDB when what we needed was Rice. Unless that is dismantled and replaced with one subject to football needs not commercial needs then it won't matter who the manager is. The danger is that the Glazers appoint a manager who does not demand that.
 
First season just needs to see progress in general play, second a top four place and continued progress.

For me it's as much about maintaining hope of progress rather than demands for immediate trophies. I can live with slow progress.
 
"Needs time" was, is and always will be complete nonsense. I wish that we stop living in the past and using SAF example all the time.
Manager of Man Utd must deliver. Period.
In first season he must win one cup, implement his style and finish in top 4 with being close to the top. In second season he must challenge for PL.
 
sullydnl said:
The key lesson here is to know what the best measures for progress actually are.

Take the 17/18 league season, for example. Liverpool finished 4th, 25 points off first. Whereas we finished 2nd, 6 points ahead of them.

Yet it wasn't hard to see which team was building towards something if you actually watched both teams play. It was certainly being pointed out by many on this forum at the time. And even if you were reluctant to recognise that through the eye-test, the underlying stats were spelling it out too. Liverpool were second only to City in terms of the expected stats that season.

It was similar with Pep in his first season. You could see the progress with the way he had them playing but even if you couldn't tell just by watching how much better they were in general play, the expected stats had them as the best in the league even as they finished third.

Whereas in the two years we finished second under Solskjaer and Mourinho both what we were watching in terms of general play and also those same expected stats were screaming that our apparent progress was built on sand. And so it proved.

So in terms of how much patience we give the new manager, I'd have a lot of patience when it comes to judging their results but a lot less patience when it comes to judging performances (whether measured through eye-test or stats). Because in terms of measuring long term progress, the latter is both more important and a more immediate way of judging manager impact. Which also means that if immediate results were good but without the performances backing it, I'd be sceptical.

In the long run, performances > results. And we should note improvements in performance within a few months. Even in the case of Rangnick (who isn't all that as a manager and has only been here for half a season) you can at least point to performance improvements if not results. I would expect the same from the new manager too.
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Yep, spot on post.

They were clearly building from not far into his reign, albeit helped massively by that very dodgy Coutinho 140m sale.
But they had the system built, and slotted in the attackers first and I remember a distinct period under Klopp, that they were outplaying the best teams away from home, but were let down by their defence.

Once they got the keeper and Van D in place, they were ready to compete.

So like Michael Owen of all people said, we need to get a proper system in place, and let players show they can fit into it. If not, ship them out and get someone who is effective in that role.
 
In the words of Blue, we can take it nice and slow, we gots until tomorrow.
 
Because of the overpaid dross, 2 years. He has to be given licence to kick the parasites out. Unfortunately a bunch of other parasites make that decision
 
Let's face it, of the four candidates on the poll in the other thread, none of them look remotely likely to be up to the job of winning trophies at the highest level. Nevermind them having to do it with with a squad lacking in winners.
I imagine they'll get top 4, then regress in the second year, and they'll be gone half way through the third season.
 
Threads like this just confirm what I've thought for a while. Manchester United are a huge club, who have somehow ended up with a fanbase worthy of a club like Stoke or Burnley.
 
Whoever we get, get them in early none of this July start nonsense like moyes had, RR should fully brief him on the squad and back him to make some tough decisions.
Get any new signings in so we can implement them into a full pre season and he can begin to get his message across and how he wants to play.

I don't expect miracles straightaway, but as long as there is no repeat of 0-5 at home and we begin to look like a proper team again ill be happy.Of course there will be bumps along the way but I'm pretty sure most of us will be OK with it as long as we see progress especially in our playing style.

Season 2 I'd expect a cup though and a decent challenge instead of being out of it by October!
 
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