If its Ten Hag I'm willing to wait 3-5 years. We would have to get worse to get better and that would include phasing the likes of Rashford, Maguire, DDG and Bruno out of the team, these names have been mentioned specifically because they do not suit the expectations ETH would demand from his players.
The new United era: how long are you prepared to give the new manager, before you lose patience?
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It's nuts. It's not just a problem with our fanbase - it happens all over. Keyboard warriors with too much time on their hands. Go outside loves, the sun is shining FFS.
I give it until the first time we drop points before people are calling for the new managers' head.
The trouble is, I think the mainstream media and social media whip people into a frenzy, pile unnecessary pressure on the club and the players and ultimately make every minor hiccup or every minor success seem far more important than it actually is.
Take this season, OK, I expected it to be better than it has been....but the media were talking about us winning the league! That's just ridiculous. We're miles off, we need to set our own realistic goals and understand it's not a linear progression path.
It wouldn't bother me, but the pressure leads to us taking shortcuts, and shortcuts invariably end-up setting us back further than when we started. You'd like to think senior DMs at the club don't think like fans and have a longer-term vision in-place, but Ed Woodward clearly did not.
I think we ought to be looking at a 5YR plan to win a title. Might sound frightening, but if we'd have taken that approach ten years ago, we'd have been a damn sight before off than we are now, a decade down the line and still no closer! In that time, we've tried to take shortcuts because 'we're Man United and we should be challenging'. Meaningless. You don't have a God-given right to challenge, you earn it.
The trouble is, I think the mainstream media and social media whip people into a frenzy, pile unnecessary pressure on the club and the players and ultimately make every minor hiccup or every minor success seem far more important than it actually is.
Take this season, OK, I expected it to be better than it has been....but the media were talking about us winning the league! That's just ridiculous. We're miles off, we need to set our own realistic goals and understand it's not a linear progression path.
It wouldn't bother me, but the pressure leads to us taking shortcuts, and shortcuts invariably end-up setting us back further than when we started. You'd like to think senior DMs at the club don't think like fans and have a longer-term vision in-place, but Ed Woodward clearly did not.
I think we ought to be looking at a 5YR plan to win a title. Might sound frightening, but if we'd have taken that approach ten years ago, we'd have been a damn sight before off than we are now, a decade down the line and still no closer! In that time, we've tried to take shortcuts because 'we're Man United and we should be challenging'. Meaningless. You don't have a God-given right to challenge, you earn it.
Depends…..
Just to add to this....people always try and justify their whingeing and impatience by saying things like 'no discernible style'....as if that takes like 15-minutes to implement.
It could/will take years to build a 23-man squad in a certain managers image. People always say 'well Chelsea chop and change' and they do....at 1st team coach level...but the people running footballing operations don't change and they've done a great job. Liverpool and City don't chop and change in either position and Arsenal have had some stability now for a few season and are benefitting after being brave enough to take their medicine and do a proper 'cultural reset'.
The very first time that we don’t win 5-0 playing perfect football, I will join the other idiots on here calling for sackings
It’s all about context. If we’re a young team who work hard play modern football and show improvement then I’m on board. The aim has to be to create and develop a side that can pounce once Klopp and Pep feck off. If there’s no signs of that happening then I’m out. However, I’m very confident there will be.
That's not entirely true though.
Liverpool appointed a DoF in 2016, after Klopp had signed, and this has recently been changed too.
City changed sporting director in 2012
Chelsea appointed Marina in 2013 and Cech got appointed in 2019.
Conte implemented a style in less than 1 season at Chelsea
Klopp implemented a style in a season
Pep implemented a style in a season
It should not take 3 years to implement a style of play. One season is more than enough as shown by other clubs.
Something like this. We are a not so hot mess. Players like Rashford and Pogba need to be sat down and spoken to before anything else can happen. Whoever is giving these contracts needs to be removed. There’s a lot that needs to happen behind the scenes before we get hungry and focussed again and I don’t really trust the club to be ruthless enough to be honest. This will take years and plenty of mistakes
It shouldn't but to shape a squad takes longer than one season, we are going to lose upwards of 6 first team player in the summer.
We know the Glazers spend money but are parsimonious also, there is no way we are able to replace all the talent we are losing this summer in one window or maybe even 2 and that is where patience needs to come from.
Ay new manager here is going to need 3 transfer windows and backing in all of them. We need to see progression with each window. It's going to be a challenge a I really hope the fans will give them support.
Unfortunately there are fans on here who will immedicably be against anyone who isn't their first choice and find reasons to stir the pot and be ultra negative.
Unfortunately there are fans on here who will immedicably be against anyone who isn't their first choice and find reasons to stir the pot and be ultra negative.
Yes, losing upwards of 6 players is good, it allows the new manager coming in an easier task. I mean, why should it take more than a season ?
I mean we've had all this talent and it got us nowhere, so maybe we do not need the best talents, we need players that fit the system the best. Liverpool did not sign the best talents when Klopp came in, he signed players that fit his way of playing.
If you want to do this, it can be done within a season, a top class manager gets us challenging or near enough in 2 seasons.
YOu are being again too simplistic. This is not just about one individual, be it the manager of the DOF. It is the whole structure, process and people behind them. So these approaches survive a change in manager and DoF. Look at what City had already bult before Pep came along. United have literally nothing. Sadly Fergie was given way too much power by the Glazers and much of the football structure whithered away and was definitely not modernised. Since then we have tried a bit but Woodward was always enthral to the manager so what limited processes we had were ignored.
So it begins, a bit earlier than expected if i might add.
Also, there are so many agenda collisions, like top 4 nonsense, same rules not being applied to all managers which is kinda funny.
Personally will do same shit regardless of who the manager is, there will be things we like about new manager and things we dont, miss me with whole give 10 years time and all that bullshit, majority will start panicking the moment they think that top 4 is out of reach because for some reason they love more top 4 thing than anything.
Also, there are so many agenda collisions, like top 4 nonsense, same rules not being applied to all managers which is kinda funny.
Personally will do same shit regardless of who the manager is, there will be things we like about new manager and things we dont, miss me with whole give 10 years time and all that bullshit, majority will start panicking the moment they think that top 4 is out of reach because for some reason they love more top 4 thing than anything.
Ten...
nine
Eight
Seven...
Eight
Seven...
They have to be given time to rebuild that's for sure. The trouble is if they go on a bad run like Solskjaer did before he was sacked what happens then.
To be honest I think giving time to win major honours is fair enough but I’d want to see an improvement in performances instantly with the strong suggestion they’re going to lead to results by the end of next season.
Clubs and managers change sporting directors and that and still manage to be successful. Why should it take 3 years for a style to be implemented? What is the reason for that?
Oh the board is not sorted? is that why? It is simple actually, look at clubs in the PL. Wolves got a new manager, the season is not over and they play Lage's style.
Conte is at Spurs for same time as Ralf, they play a Conte style.
Villa play the Gerrard way.
Only at United it takes 3 years to implement a style.
As long as there are signs of continual improvement. I'm not expecting magical scenes straight away, but there does have to be signs of improvement, and then further signs of improvement as time goes on.
LVG is a good example. His first season was ok. There were obvious issues, but we could see what he was trying to implement and it was understandable that it wasn't working perfectly as we didn't have the players to do it. However, the second season got significantly worse. He'd proven unable to get the players that we already had at the club to really work with the style that he wanted, he'd proven unable to sign the right players that would help move towards that style, and he'd proven unable to change his tactics to get the best out of the players. It doesn't matter how great in theory what you want to implement is, if you fail at all three of those attributes then you're gone.
LVG is a good example. His first season was ok. There were obvious issues, but we could see what he was trying to implement and it was understandable that it wasn't working perfectly as we didn't have the players to do it. However, the second season got significantly worse. He'd proven unable to get the players that we already had at the club to really work with the style that he wanted, he'd proven unable to sign the right players that would help move towards that style, and he'd proven unable to change his tactics to get the best out of the players. It doesn't matter how great in theory what you want to implement is, if you fail at all three of those attributes then you're gone.
3/4 years
Not really a time frame. I don't know why people keep going on about 3 years. That's been the mistake we have been making. We've been giving managers far too much time and support. The manager has to prove with performances and results that he belongs at the club. We don't have to coddle him. The key performance indicators should be style of play, man management of the squad and the ability to address the media and fans. I think we are good enough to get top 4 with this squad and potentially even challenge when all things go well. We need to see he also has an eye for bringing in the right type of talent; this is what hurt LVG. Once we start being able to control and dominate games, even if we don't win trophies as of yet, we would know we have the right manager. He has to prove that in the first one and a half seasons; and show signs of that happening over the course of the first season. By December, unless we have a plague of injuries, we should be able to identify a winning style.
Depends who it is. The really big risk is that ETH says I need ten new players and Poch says I can do it with five and so the Glazers give it to Poch. And then we never get out of mediocrity and gas lighting the fans.
Michael Edwards joined Liverpool in 2011 and his impact and influence was evident before Klopp joined, and was integral to his selection as manager.
Likewise, Txiki Begiristain was a long-standing target of City's owners who were keen to lure Pep Guardiola. Txiki was doing the groundwork for Pep's arrival from the moment he arrived and it still took Pep £600m+ and virtually two players in most positions to implement his style.
Again, Chelsea had Michael Emenalo from 2011-2017 and were also perhaps one of the first clubs to go with the 'Sporting Director' model in England.
The point is, Sporting Directors provide continuity of vision and strategic direction. When managers arrive at Chelsea, Liverpool or City, they have a functioning football club to work with, with players and staff carefully recruited to deliver a certain style.
In contrast, we've had Ed 'Adult Disneyland' Woodward bouncing from one idea to another season-on-season signing players almost at random. You probably couldn't get a bigger bunch of misfits than we've signed if you were just drawing names at random. Not to mention the antiquated scouting department, our failure to generate revenue from player sales, the huge contracts we hand out to players we are then lumbered with, the 'star' signings who come in and disrupt the harmony within the squad....it's all absolute chaos.
No manager in the World could have delivered trophies at United under Ed Woodward, because the platform wasn't in-place to deliver the right players, the right coaches, analysts, medical staff etc....sure....some would do better than others....but ultimately the jobs been a poisoned chalice, were managers go to have their reputations destroyed.
Couldn’t agree more. We need to learn to walk before we can run
We’ve seen time and time again that the 3 year message is just nonsense. By Christmas our style of play should be overhauled. The league is too competitive to expect trophies, but again this is something other managers have delivered, even Lego Pep.
I expect us to be competing and competing soon. We are a midfield away from being competitive, the rest of the squad has room from self improvement.
I expect us to be competing and competing soon. We are a midfield away from being competitive, the rest of the squad has room from self improvement.
I'd expect year one to be transitional, so some signs of progress but a few setbacks.
By year two I'd want us to have a very clear style of play and be good to watch. Silverware would be nice. At least a cup.
Year three, challenging for major honours.
I'd want us to have shifted the deadwood by next summer and to see a few of the younger players getting regular first team chances.
Ideally the average age of the first team would have come down along the way.
By year two I'd want us to have a very clear style of play and be good to watch. Silverware would be nice. At least a cup.
Year three, challenging for major honours.
I'd want us to have shifted the deadwood by next summer and to see a few of the younger players getting regular first team chances.
Ideally the average age of the first team would have come down along the way.
18 months to 2 years. Many coaches have shown they can get a team playing well in that time frame. We’re doomed if we continue the ‘we’re man United we give everyone time and loyalty more than anyone’. The days of Ferguson are long gone.
If he is doing well then extend the contract.
If he is doing well then extend the contract.
They just need to be good all the time.
Good =
1. Compete in single matches against City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. A 50% win record is the metric pass/fail.
2. Finish in the top 4
3. Go deep in every cup
4. Improve year on year
We will not win the league for at least 3 years. So sign lots of 23 year olds. Build a system. Create a playing style. Lose less than 3 home games a year.
If a new managers does all that, 5years is fine. 5 years following a club that is stabilising is enjoyable.
Yes we’ll be envious of better teams, but wait for Pep and Klopp to go. Be ready. Be next up. Don’t be a disorganised mess.
Good =
1. Compete in single matches against City, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool. A 50% win record is the metric pass/fail.
2. Finish in the top 4
3. Go deep in every cup
4. Improve year on year
We will not win the league for at least 3 years. So sign lots of 23 year olds. Build a system. Create a playing style. Lose less than 3 home games a year.
If a new managers does all that, 5years is fine. 5 years following a club that is stabilising is enjoyable.
Yes we’ll be envious of better teams, but wait for Pep and Klopp to go. Be ready. Be next up. Don’t be a disorganised mess.
People saying 3 to 5 years is ludicrous and I suspect they are older posters from the beginning of Fergies era. You don’t need years to evaluate if a manager is going in the right direction (See Ole). In the modern game, no club can afford to lose years of progress to experiment on one person. You just allow the manager to keep going as long as their is progress, there’s no magic amount of time.
Show up, clean house, sign and promote the right players, and shake up the status quo of the mediocre last decade.
Create a culture of accountability an competitiveness. No one’s spot should be safe or guaranteed.
Create a culture of accountability an competitiveness. No one’s spot should be safe or guaranteed.
I’d say the next manager will have some pretty low expectations from the realistic side of our fan base.
A glut of players will be leaving the club and he will need to be supported in the transfer market. There won’t be enough cash for expensive luxury players so that should also keep expectations low.
Like most, I want to see both the new manager and directing staff moving the club forward and sensibly whilst achieving some attractive football. If that happens gradually and continues to grow then the new manager will be given plenty of support from understanding fans.
A glut of players will be leaving the club and he will need to be supported in the transfer market. There won’t be enough cash for expensive luxury players so that should also keep expectations low.
Like most, I want to see both the new manager and directing staff moving the club forward and sensibly whilst achieving some attractive football. If that happens gradually and continues to grow then the new manager will be given plenty of support from understanding fans.
The honest answer is the following:
If it's the guy that I want then three years. If it's anyone else, about three weeks.
If it's the guy that I want then three years. If it's anyone else, about three weeks.
If it's the latter, hopefully you'll do the right thing and post at least 10 critical posts a day on any and every thread about how you knew he was the wrong guy and all opposing views are just top reds being stuck in the past.
I’ve given up on the new manager already. His bosses are the Glazers.
Realistically I think the new manager needs two years at least for grass routes to begin to show. The clubs an absolute mess, in terms of squad make up and culture. Not to mention before Rangnick we hadn’t really had a manger who could work with and improve players in 5 years.
So From where we are to competing for trophies on a regular bases I think it’s a minimum of 3 years before we should be starting to even think about it.
Thats 3 years of good squad building decisions and good coaching and manager who atcually works to improve players and coaches players in how to move the ball quickly, how to break teams down, attacking positioning and movement. Not to mention breeds a good squad culture
Of course I don’t expect any manager to get the chance to do any of these things if they don’t win in the 1st season the majority of the fanbase will have a tantrum and demand super star signings. Plus I have no faith in Murtough and Arnold managing the selection process and the squad building.
But for me if it seems like the recruitment is sensible and I can atcually begin to see the team functioning as a unit and players beginning to improve I’m prepared to give a manger who makes that happen at least 3 years before I would expect the results to begin to follow.
So From where we are to competing for trophies on a regular bases I think it’s a minimum of 3 years before we should be starting to even think about it.
Thats 3 years of good squad building decisions and good coaching and manager who atcually works to improve players and coaches players in how to move the ball quickly, how to break teams down, attacking positioning and movement. Not to mention breeds a good squad culture
Of course I don’t expect any manager to get the chance to do any of these things if they don’t win in the 1st season the majority of the fanbase will have a tantrum and demand super star signings. Plus I have no faith in Murtough and Arnold managing the selection process and the squad building.
But for me if it seems like the recruitment is sensible and I can atcually begin to see the team functioning as a unit and players beginning to improve I’m prepared to give a manger who makes that happen at least 3 years before I would expect the results to begin to follow.
It's over for any manager once the players stop responding. We've seen it happen with all the previous managers, and managers never recover. So for me I'll be fine with poor results if I believe that he still has the backing of the players and is trying to build something.
4-6 months should be enough to show a tangible on field impact.
Three years. More depending on progression.
4 to 6 months from now, or are you being generous and letting him have a walk around Carrington first?
Is this a serious question?