The new United era: how long are you prepared to give the new manager, before you lose patience?

fastwalker

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By all accounts, United will shortly be appointing a new manager, who will be at the helm in time for the start of the new season and who is expected to lead the club back to glory.

Over the years, as United fans, we have come to accept that we are some way off from both City and Liverpool and therefore do not expect to be competing for the Premier League title in the near future. Conventional wisdom is that the United side needs to be rebuilt. Depending on who you speak to, as many as 12 players in the current squad need to be shown the door. Then there is the club culture to consider. Culture is not a quick fix and will not properly change until many of the current crop are shipped out. Then there is coaching and tactics. It is clear that a modern, intense, high-pressing style of football is what United will be aiming for. However, we are some way away from that. In fact if learning from City and Liverpool is anything to go by, this will be developed painstakingly through trial and error. Some players will get injured others will not fancy it, whilst others will be up for it. Time will tell. Then there are the performances. Whilst performances are no guarantee of results they are a very strong indicator of trajectory. Needless to say, eventually, as performances improve and become more consistent results will follow.

The corollary of the above, is that if we are realistic this is a journey that even if it were linear, could take a while. The likelihood however, is that it will not be linear and there will be ups and downs and periods when it may well seem like it is not happening. Remember Pep's first season at City, finishing 3rd (a distant 15 points off the top) and Klopp's first full season at Liverpool, finishing 4th (an even more distant 17 points off the top).

So here's the rub, how patient are you willing to be with the new manager, before you lose patience? Are you prepared to see things get worse, even much worse and put your hope in the new manager to turn things around?
 
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It would depend on how much "backing" he receives in the first 2 transfer windows, but generally, next season is mostly a "write off". If he could manage top 4 it would be great, but i will be patient if they can't - unless things get absolutely dreadful.

I'd guess the next manager would/should be afforded more patience as the players have mostly lost the backing of the fans. A massive clear out is needed in this squad, meaning at least 2-3 years away (if you're being optimistic) from competing for the title.
 
Same as with any other manager. If there is reasonable progress then they should continue to receive the support of the fanbase. The caveat to that, and this is where our fanbase falls apart, is that people aren't willing or able to reconcile what reasonable progress is, so there is no doubt that toys will be thrown out of prams every time we don't win a game.
 
Depends on who it is. ETH I will give more to as I expect he will want to overhaul this squad and it will take time. If it is Poch not sure that will happen to the same extent and as he has already got 'PL experience' he should be able to get us up and running quicker. A lot will depend on how much financial help the managers get, if they shift the trouble makers. Then it will all be down to the players attitude to a new managers methods, as it has been since SAF left. I want to see a new, hungier, fitter, more ambitious team. That will depend on if the club want the same.
 
More patience than most, I guess. There's never been a lengthy period where I've been desperate for the manager to go but the club's stuck by them. Things have to get pretty dire for me to lose faith.

fastwalker said:
Are you prepared to see things get worse, even much worse and put your hope in the new manager to turn things around?
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No, though. Things are really bad already. Them getting much worse isn't tolerable.
 
Realistically you’d have to say 2 seasons to sort most of the squad out and have a team that looks like it’s got a style and is pulling in the same direction. Do I expect trophies in those 2 years? No. Just improvements that are clear to see. If anyone is expecting a new manager is going to come in and magically start winning trophies they are very mistaken
 
This squad does not have the quality or mentality to suddenly transform into a title winning team.
We need to give the new manager 3 years to buy the players he wants and to let him implement his style. After those 3 years we can evaluate and decide whether or not we see enough improvement to extend his contract.
 
3 seasons with gradually improving over that time will keep me happy, we have to be realistic
 
People advocating for unlimited patience are probably expecting ETH. I'd imagine this would evaporate with a less favoured manager. This thread would be funny if we got lopetegui haha
 
I'm at the stage where I'm not that fussed about the new manager.

What I want to see is whether the club has changed. If the people running our club were running Liverpool, the likes of Luis Alberto, Lucas Leiva, Nathaniel Clyne and so on would still be hanging about. As the bean counters hang on to them endlessly to try and get transfer fees that never come.

For me, the acid test of how successful a manager can be at this club will be whether players like Andreas Pereira are still on our books after the summer. If the club isn't willing to cut its losses, and get rid of players who don't suit where we wanna go, why worry about who the new manager is? We know these players, we know what they're capable of. Expecting a new manager to come in and suddenly turn them into Barcelona 2011 is deluded.

If the club isn't backing the manager with outgoings, as well as incomings, then why get our hopes up? It'll be the same old s-t regardless of whether we, as fans, back the new manager or not.
 
I’d give ten Hag 5 years. He is someone whom I have very strong faith in, who could change our whole system into attractive attacking football, if time allows. Plus our squad need a long term massive rebuild anyway.

If it’s Poch, maybe 2-3 years at most.
 
18 months.

That is just a general ball park figure, obviously if we are playing shite and going backwards then that gets re-assessed butnI want it to look like it is heading somewhere after a year and a bit.
 
I think it's important the new manager puts a marker down early that things are going to change.

Results themselves don't have to be brilliant immediately but the message that things are changing absolutely has to be sent straightaway.

One of the biggest disappointments under Ragnick has been the fact the team is still as directionless as ever on the pitch.
 
Depends on a) How much backing they get from the board, and b) who the manager is.

I'd be willing to give ETH a few years to get the squad aligning to his vision. I'd be less patient with Poch.
 
Also we will need to ignore the media and pundits trying to pick fault with everything happening. They will do their best to stir things up and cause unrest.
 
I side with the 'reasonable progress' crowd. But it'll all depend on how much authority the new manager is given in terms of players coming in and more importantly players being shipped out. If things off the pitch were well executed, my expectations would be as follows-

By the end of the first season-Players know how to actually pass the ball. I'm sick of seeing United players completely fail at the basics of football. I want most of our players to show that they can take good first touches, make precise passes that aren't over/under hit and make partnerships in various areas of the pitch. I understand that some players like AWB and Fred might always be poor technically, but the majority of the team should know how to pass properly under pressure. I'd sacrifice top 4 for a proper football team.

Second season-Top 4 minimum. I'd also expect to win a cup if we had two good transfer windows. FA cup, league cup, one of the lesser european trophies-doesn't matter.

Third season-Challenge for one of PL/CL.
 
Honestly I think you can tell pretty quickly if a manager is the right man in most cases. It was painfully obvious after a few months of Moyes/LVG/Mourinho that they would never succeed but unfortunately sacking a manager after 3 months isn’t the done thing. On the other hand Klopp at Liverpool finished 8th in his first season yet every single game you could tell they were a team going places. There are very few miraculous turnarounds from managers and steady progress is usually clear to see.
 
Faith should probably be incremental. At the end of the first season, if we don't win anything or achieve top 4, is there still a clear plan in place? Is there progress? If so, we keep going.

For instance, with David Moyes, by the time he was sacked, there was no plan, we had no tactic other than "get to the byline". He was deservedly replaced. We were going nowhere with him, and the players weren't on board either. Under LvG, first half of the season was rocky, but the 2nd half of the season we had found a way to play. There were positive signs, and we played some decent stuff, even in some of the games we didn't win. The 2nd season went backwards, even he loosened the shackles on his possession approach, and we looked as directionless as we did under Moyes. I believe a 3rd season of that would have been a disaster.

Setting in stone that a manager gets X amount of time doesn't seem wise. It has to be reviewed along the way. There has to be clear incremental progress. That doesn't mean winning trophies yet, but there has to be a positive style of play, improvement on an individual level, and signs that a good squad is being built (though the latter doesn't entirely fall to him)
 
Probably 3 years depending on the progress of the type of football and results. If ETH for example finishes 8th or 10th in his first season I wouldn't be bothered but you know the knives will be out. We need to change our football philosophy and it could mean a drop before we come back which I can take, as well as someone like ETH getting to grips with everything else.

The pressure of top 4 or bust needs to go, it can quickly turn managers into playing very risk averse style.
 
3 to 4 seasons as long as they have a coherent identity of style of play and playing attractive entertaining football if they have no meaningful trophies to offer during that spell
 
Ish said:
It would depend on how much "backing" he receives in the first 2 transfer windows, but generally, next season is mostly a "write off". If he could manage top 4 it would be great, but i will be patient if they can't - unless things get absolutely dreadful.

I'd guess the next manager would/should be afforded more patience as the players have mostly lost the backing of the fans. A massive clear out is needed in this squad, meaning at least 2-3 years away (if you're being optimistic) from competing for the title.
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Yeah, I was thinking something similar re the backing part. I'm thinking (hoping) the lack of spending in January was to ensure the new manager + transfer department gets a huge transfer kitty to play with this summer.

Beefing up the horribly neglected midfield would go a long way to solving some problems. Rice is a no-brainer for me, along with a bonus like Franc Kessie would be ideal.
 
Hope the fanbase has learned a few things after so many years of failure.
1 - Any manager who comes in takes time to implement their style of play.
2 - Progress is seen when we watch the team play, not by goals or numbers or shots or possession or xGs

Just because we're winning does not mean the manager is doing a good job and deserves time (example Ole), by the same token, if we're not winning, does not necessarily mean we're not improving (example Klopp).

So yes, time given to the manager depends on the progress we're showing on the pitch, if we have a defined style of play, if we're trying to do the right thing, even if we're not doing that successfully, progress is visible watching the team play. Time given to a manager depends on progress.
 
Its not a case of "how much time am I willing to give him" its a case of "how much time does he earn". Ole earned about 6 months before it was clear he was completely over his head and taking the team nowhere.

Its a combination of everything. How does the manager behave, how does the manager communicate his ideas to the fans and the team. How does the team play, are they improving, is there are clear style that he is trying to achieve. I will give them as long as they need as long as they are moving in the right direction. If that takes 3 years then so be it.

Honestly, if this appointment goes badly and I don't believe that its the managers fault I will probably be largely done with United for a while. This isn't the club I knew growing up. Its not the lack of success its the complete mismanagement of the club. The lack of ambition. Prioritising marketing over football and creating a team that is just fundamentally unlikeable at the moment. Even the youth talent seems pretty toxic these days.

If we get ETH that will be the first manager I am truly excited to see at United since Fergie. Rangnicks appointment was good because it seemed to signal a change in tact from the club but who knows. I don't trust the Glazers as far as I can throw them. It makes zero sense to me how they run the club but they clearly do it for a reason and a big part of me thinks that nothing will truly change until they are gone.
 
2 years to implement their style on the shape of the squad and it’s personnel, with improvements on the field but no pressure for trophies.

3rd year, genuine challenge on all fronts.

This is assuming they are backed by the board of course.
 
Random Task said:
Yeah, I was thinking something similar re the backing part. I'm thinking (hoping) the lack of spending in January was to ensure the new manager + transfer department gets a huge transfer kitty to play with this summer.

Beefing up the horribly neglected midfield would go a long way to solving some problems. Rice is a no-brainer for me, along with a bonus like Franc Kessie would be ideal.
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Yeah, a massive overhaul in 1 window is almost unheard of, but if we're smart, we could get a large part of the required overhaul done with a combination of transfer kitty funded by some sales, free signings and some youth additions to the squad. I'm hopeful as well. So let's see.
 
I think it depends on results and performances really. There's no need to give a manager a lengthy period of time if the ship is clearly sinking.

Season 1: Serious challenge for top 4 and clearly showing signs of implementing style of play that is good to watch. If results aren't good in the PL, there has to at least be positive signs in our football. I remember when Klopp took over their performances were generally good in terms of chance creation and could match up to other top teams in one off games but they were way too wasteful and leaky at the back.
Season 2: Make top 4, where the quality of football has to also improve
Season 3: Comfortable 3rd or 4th placed finish (similar to Chelsea this season) with indications that we can compete with the best (in CL and or PL)

I think those are reasonable expectations, though they could change depending on our opposition (managerial and transfers changes), our transfer activity or a freak injury crisis.

With Moyes it was towards the end of his first season, LVG during his 2nd season, Jose during his 2nd season, with Ole while I liked him I never bought into him as a manager to be honest and would have happily seen him replaced at the end of every season he was in charge and was concerned with our dip in form immediately after he got the job full time.
 
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If after 1 season there's a cohesion and defined patterns in how we play then I'll give him two more seasons to see results. If there's lack of cohesion, players not knowing what to do after one season, then he has to go.
Basically just copying what we should have done with Ole.
 
I am very surprised we are giving the manager 3 years to challenge, I expect a title challenge in his 2nd year.

1st year to work on his method, get the 5/6 players
2nd season he has to challenge
 
Who are you fecking joking, they’ll be posters dissatisfied after the first pre match interview.
 
Depends on the football. I hate to talk about Liverpool, but when Klopp took over their results weren't changing at first, but you could see that there was a definite style of play that was putting them in the right direction. If our new manager comes in and we can see that we are playing in a way that is moving in the right direction but not getting results, then we need patience. If we are seeing some results but the style of play hasn't improved, then we have a problem
 
2-3 years unconditionally. Well, relatively. In that time, I would like him to have us playing in a way that is true to his philosophy, even if we are still not quite there in terms of quality. We would still need to be in and around the top 4. I don't see how it is acceptable to be finishing outside the top 6 or 7.
 
Give one season for signs of a style of play emerging
Give two seasons for consistent style of play and squad rotation
Give four seasons for winning consistently

Less patience for recruitment - expect that to be on point immediately.
 
altodevil said:
Give one season for signs of a style of play emerging
Give two seasons for consistent style of play and squad rotation
Give four seasons for winning consistently

Less patience for recruitment - expect that to be on point immediately.
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If we think the Utd reset is just about the manager we will be disappointed and allowing the board off the hook. It should be a coherent football structure and philosophy, with similar styles of play across all age groups to allow players to transition upwards. Also a clear recruitment strategy that stops overpaying, rewarding mediocricy and crucially delivers a balanced squad that survives changes in manager.
 
Obviously there will be a while where there is patience just with the understanding that it's difficult to come in to a new club, especially United right now, and there is bound to be a period of settling in. All I really want from next season is to get the sense that there is a clear direction and to at least see some evidence that it's being put into action.

That was never there under Solskjaer, even ignoring that his track record was underwhelming. He never convinced in what he said about his plan (it was mostly vague, Manchester United buzzphrases bullshit) and the signings he made in his first summer, the way the team played and the vision he spoke about never aligned. With Mourinho and Van Gaal it felt like they were always going to be short term appointments but it seemed like the only people who didn't know that were the people running the club, so there should have been concern earlier about the fact that they weren't getting anywhere in the major competitions and clearly weren't building anything for the long term either.

Whether it's Ten Hag or Pochettino it's just as important that the club are clearly working to the same vision as well. If the summer incomings and outgoings make sense for the new manager and we get some flashes of a brighter future next season then for me that would suffice even if the league position isn't as good as hoped, however if there seems to be jumbled up thinking in the recruitment again this summer and then we're only seeing flashes next season then it's going to be harder to have faith not so much in the manager but in things getting better generally.
 
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