The negativity is unreal | Nevermind

Acquire Me said:
- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.
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These are all well and good but the thing that creates the most animosity (or love) towards the manager and the team is something that's missing from your bullet points, namely what actually happens on the pitch. I think most fans can recognize that we're in a better position today than we were before but team spirit and great bench players doesn't matter all that much when the performances and results are the way they are.
 
If Newcastle hire a manager who keeps them up, it’ll be good job, well done, now feck off.

Or they could stick with that manager, let him spend ridiculous amounts of money, have no identifiable playing style after three years and win nothing. At which point the fans will become negative towards him.

Ole did a good job until he reached his ceiling which was top four. Now we are back to panic buying ageing superstars in the absence of any cohesive long term plan.
 
Acquire Me said:
I have been a so called "Ole in" and I support our manager and players. Ole has done a lot of right things to build us up after Moyes, LvG and Mourinho.

He deserves credit for what he has done so far. I still stand behind him and our team. His in charge and I still hope he can find his and our teams way to become what we all know the can be.

I have serious doubts though, he might not have that "last bit" in him to guide us to become great. If we could get someone like Erik ten Hag now, I would take him. No doubt about it.

That said, why all the crazy negativity about him that just not make sense?

- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.

He has not been perfect all along, but no one are. He might not be the one in the end that brings glory back. But the man taking over will inherit something really good to work on.

So, why all the negativity on him. Even on him as player and legend. I find that extremely disgraceful.
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You can call it negativity all you like, but it is actually a call for change. We have had enough mediocrity at this football club and nobody embodies that mediocrity more than Solskjaer. So, let's address the little list of positives you've made there:

- He has built a fantastic team - Not sure it's got too much to do with him. He's been given practically unlimited funds and we brought some good players in. He was backed much more staunchly in the transfer market than any of his predecessors, even more than Sir Alex, I daresay, which is simply senseless.

- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment. - In some ways, yes, he has. However, he's pandered to the players too much. In turn, we lack discipline and you can see it in both the team and individual performances. Sir Alex or any other top manager would not stand for Bruno flailing his arms every two minutes, Greenwood having 10 long-range efforts every game and McTominay calling us underdogs.

- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut - Absolute rubbish. Are you aware we are still paying Mata, Jones, van de Beek, Lingard hundreds of thousands of pounds every week? Every one of them is a different case in terms of why they are not playing, but to say he's got rid of the deadwood is simply incorrect. These players, apart from Lingard's 20 good minutes here and there, contribute nothing. Jones was given a new contract having not played for a couple of years. Van De Beek treatment is shameful for us as a club and Solskjaer both as a man and a manager.

- He promoted youth into our first team - Apart from Greenwood, is there anyone else playing for us who hadn't played under Mourinho or van Gaal? Rashford and McTominay were already established players prior to his arrival.

- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall. - He started the process three years ago and is not any closer to completing it despite spending, what, 300mil + some pretty high-earning free transfers. We are Manchester United and we have not won a trophy for three years. How old are you? Do you know what Manchester United standards are? Apart from some decent Carabao Cut runs and a Europa League final (another embarrassment for Solskjaer), we have nothing to show for it. Unbeaten away for ages, yes, when the stadiums are empty and in a freak season.

He is a legend of the club, mostly for his goal in the CL final, but let's not put him in the same rank as Keane, Scholes, Robson, Vidic, Ferdinand, Bruce, Neville, etc. He was a bit-part player with an amazing goal record coming off the bench. He deserves all the respect in the world for his contribution in the playing days and should also be praised for stabilising a broken dressing-room after Mourinho, but he needs to be sacked if we are to go back where we should be. Solskjaer will never take us there.
 
I think most people can admit he has done an ok job with the squad. Nothing another top manager couldn't do with those funds, but we can give him that. But his time is up and he needs to go . He is not good enough. Thats the reason the negativity is at its peak. Its logical and we cant expect any less. People won't praise him non stop for doing a basic job while he keeps holding us back.
 
Judge Red said:
If Newcastle hire a manager who keeps them up, it’ll be good job, well done, now feck off.

Or they could stick with that manager, let him spend ridiculous amounts of money, have no identifiable playing style after three years and win nothing. At which point the fans will become negative towards him.

Ole did a good job until he reached his ceiling which was top four. Now we are back to panic buying ageing superstars in the absence of any cohesive long term plan.
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2nd. And reached a final which, the previous year, was apparently above his ceiling.
 
Except that he'd actually done an awful job.

500m and nothing to show, in 3 years time we're due another big rebuild with only prospects are greenwood, rashford, shaw, and sancho. The rest are and should be replaced. Some squad building that is
 
The environment only seems toxic because everyone is posting their thoughts on an underperforming manager and creating multiple threads per day. And the media is always gonna be media. There’s only one way for the negativity to stop , and it’s for Ole to step his game up and deliver the results. I don’t know what OP is expecting really, this happens to any underperforming manager. Does Ole deserve less negativity because he used to play for our club and all that DNA jazz?
 
Acquire Me said:
I have been a so called "Ole in" and I support our manager and players. Ole has done a lot of right things to build us up after Moyes, LvG and Mourinho.

He deserves credit for what he has done so far. I still stand behind him and our team. His in charge and I still hope he can find his and our teams way to become what we all know the can be.

I have serious doubts though, he might not have that "last bit" in him to guide us to become great. If we could get someone like Erik ten Hag now, I would take him. No doubt about it.

That said, why all the crazy negativity about him that just not make sense?

- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.

He has not been perfect all along, but no one are. He might not be the one in the end that brings glory back. But the man taking over will inherit something really good to work on.

So, why all the negativity on him. Even on him as player and legend. I find that extremely disgraceful.
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Excellent post. I’m not sure what age demographic you fall into, but assuming that you didn’t just discover the internet yesterday, does it really come as much surprise to you when you see some of the comments? There will be people on every fan forum in the world who are supporters of rival teams, masquerading as supporters of the forum they are on, and stirring the pot with negativity/sarcasm etc. We live in a world where you can say anything you want online and where no one wants to change their opinion, regardless of the data they are presented with. For your own benefit, I suggest you just remind yourself that other people have opinions and no matter how wrong they may appear to you, you have to respect it and not enter into senseless debate when you can easily identify when someone is too far on the other side of your thoughts.

Personally, I want the team and the manager to do well and I believe there is enough talent on the field and off the field to be successful, I just dont know to what degree. I believe that this club needs to be winning the biggest trophies otherwise there will always be scrutiny, and I can’t say I’m convinced that Ole and his team will be the ones to take us that next step. I think the great job they are doing is being overshadowed by his contemporaries across the city and in Liverpool, because they are just at a different level these last few years and it seems like the fan base wants a tried and tested manager in terms of style, because a lot of people think that a very good tactical coach can unlock the ability of our squad. Personally, I think Ole has the respect of the team and seems to be well liked (no real press stories about a player revolt or divided dressing room) and he has demonstrated tactical smarts, so it’s a case of stick or twist with neither being a sure solution to our needs.

Ole is like the financial advisor who grows your portfolio a little year on year, and you can see the potential for a big windfall a few years down the line, but he keeps getting you to invest in some stocks that have a line resembling a roller coaster a little too much. Whereas over at the rival stockbrokers, there are two guys making record returns and have been on an upward trend for years with no signs of dipping. It’s only natural to go after what appears to be more of a guarantee, but just like the finance world, trends change in football and nothing lasts forever. I think every fan of our club would love if it if Ole could indeed turn it around and win us the big trophies, but I can totally understand and respect the people who think he never will.
 
90 + 5min said:
There were those who did that and wanted other coaches. Even wanting to bring back Benitez.
My point is that things take time.
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They absolutely do take time. But surely you can see why Klopp might have got out more time than Ole?

Other than obviously being a better manager (that's not debatable is it?), if Klopp went 3 years without even coming close to challenging after spending the money he did on Alisson, Van Dijk and Fabinho, he probably would've started to feel the pressure.

Ole has spend big money every year, it's not unreasonable to expect serious challenging now is it?
 
Micky Targaryen said:
The environment only seems toxic because everyone is posting their thoughts on an underperforming manager and creating multiple threads per day. And the media is always gonna be media. There’s only one way for the negativity to stop , and it’s for Ole to step his game up and deliver the results. I don’t know what OP is expecting really, this happens to any underperforming manager. Does Ole deserve less negativity because he used to play for our club and all that DNA jazz?
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Nail on the head
 
Acquire Me said:
I have been a so called "Ole in" and I support our manager and players. Ole has done a lot of right things to build us up after Moyes, LvG and Mourinho.

He deserves credit for what he has done so far. I still stand behind him and our team. His in charge and I still hope he can find his and our teams way to become what we all know the can be.

I have serious doubts though, he might not have that "last bit" in him to guide us to become great. If we could get someone like Erik ten Hag now, I would take him. No doubt about it.

That said, why all the crazy negativity about him that just not make sense?

- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.

He has not been perfect all along, but no one are. He might not be the one in the end that brings glory back. But the man taking over will inherit something really good to work on.

So, why all the negativity on him. Even on him as player and legend. I find that extremely disgraceful.
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Well said.
 
red thru&thru said:
Not disputing anything you've said. Agree with it. Just for me, not saying it's you, but fans don't need to be toxic.

You last line should sum it up nicely...he has taken us far as he can. That's it.
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Yep agreed. He's done a great job so far. My only criticism is not offloading some players (Jones bailly Jesse mata etc...those he never ever plays) and signing a midfielder.

I was never convinced about his coaching attributes, I just wanted him to steady the ship, and improve the squad. He's definitely done that.

It's now time to fine a COACH to take this team to the next level.
 
Bubz27 said:
And no Liverpool fans were calling for his head. Maybe they're better than some of us? Maybe they could feel something building? Who knows. Tune in next week to find out.
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They could see something building. Heck everyone did. There's no one here with a straight face could say they weren't getting worried about Liverpool as those early years progressed.
 
Ole outters need to stop being so knee jerk with their long held opinions based on watching us play over the duration of his tenure and remember we won the last game
 
This is false praise. Utd may have beat PSG in 2019, finished 3rd and then 2nd, but Ole outers don't credit Ole with a lot of that.

Building a fantastic team; I assume you mean assembling world class players? Doesn't take a genius to sign the players he's got. I can credit him for Fernandes and Maguire. But it was irresponsible signing 3 wide players when he already has 2 (I count Greenwood). My guy wants to catch them all.

Varane and Ronaldo... Yeah, who's going to credit him for those? It's like having a millionaire shop at your local store, and the salesman gets a huge commission just for being there. There's nothing particularly special about Ole as a coach that they joined Utd for. Cavani was great but (to my unqualified knowledge) that was a Woodward thing.

I don't consider Wan-Bissaka a creditable signing, he's a poor player.

If by 'fantastic team' you mean the style, yeah it's great that he can counter-attack, but he's repeatedly shown himself to be tactically lacking. The players look lost.

It's the combination of (i) a player's ability and (ii) good instructions from the coaches that makes a player like Sancho shine at Dortmund. My personal take is that if (ii) is seriously lacking, the less and less you'll see of (i). It's like a flower that needs watering, and dies instead.

I credit 3rd and 2nd with good players and Ole's counter-attack, but nothing more. He's incapable of giving them more useful instructions and we'll be left trophyless for the 5th successive season for it. A squad and a budget to match anyone in Europe, and nothing to show.

Creating good values; yeah I think this is fair. It doesn't take much to look approachable next to Jose, but Ole isn't like him, to Utd's benefit.

Getting rid of players not making the cut; yeah he did that, not perfectly, but noone does. Should've kept Herrera and sold Fred instead, maybe needs to think about selling McTominay and Martial by now. Should've sold van de Beek in the summer, because the guy can't catch a break and it's hugely irresponsible to manage a young player's career like he has.

Promoting youth into the first team; no, not really. Greenwood was always going to be a hit, I believe most coaches would've played him in eventually. There's nobody else. McTominay was already in the squad when he came.

Started an excellent process; this sentence doesn't mean anything.

Acquire Me said:
- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.

He has not been perfect all along, but no one are. He might not be the one in the end that brings glory back. But the man taking over will inherit something really good to work on.

So, why all the negativity on him. Even on him as player and legend. I find that extremely disgraceful.
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BrilliantOrange said:
The idea is not that he hasnt done good stuff for us. I think he was the right manager at the right time, getting back the United feeling/atmosphere, giving youth chances, etc...

The negativity that he must leaves comes from the believe that he is - from here onwards - not the right manager to make the next step with us to become a genuine title contender. There is plenty of reason to believe he is tactically not up there and therefore not the right man to get the most outof this squad, which is really required if you want to beat this Liverpool and City..
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Totally agree. Could not be clearer than that.
 
we will be challenging for top 4 and will be there or thereabouts at the end of the season, that's good enough for now innit

Also Ole's suits are nice, looking sharp on the bench
 
arnie_ni said:
They could see something building. Heck everyone did. There's no one here with a straight face could say they weren't getting worried about Liverpool as those early years progressed.
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They were arguably one of the most exciting teams in Europe to watch along with that superb Monaco and Dortmund teams. If I recall they just ran out of steam after Christmas and couldn’t maintain the intensity they had previously.
 
If he had never played for us, was just some guy that managed Cardiff and Molde and then we gave them a £7.5m a year contract and 100s of millions to spend and after 3 years was looking down the barrel of being in the bottom half of the League after 10 games...I think a lot of the defenders of Ole would have a different tune. His playing days should have no bearing on how he is judged as a manager.
 
He's done a bang average job.

He's basically done a worse job than Mourinho but hasn't had a meltdown and actively tried to get himself the sack yet.
 
I am Ole out. I was against this appointment from day 1 not because of Ole but simply because I knew that the moment a former player gets the job then sentimentalism would cloud our better judgement making it next to impossible to sack the man if he is not good enough.

Returning to Ole I think that he was the perfect temporary manager. He improved the mood at OT and within the dressing room almost instantly, he brought results in and our performances improved. He also allowed United to bring in much restructuring at board level, something all other managers including SAF was against. I have very mixed feelings about the people involved at that level but that's an argument for another day and it doesn't concern Ole.

However once he got the job permanently he turned out to be a bit too cautious to get it done (and I am being very politically correct here). He kept McCarricky and he brought his people in from Cardiff/Molde despite them not being good enough. Under his tenure United gave contract renewals to the likes of Jones, Mata, Heaton, McShane, Grant and Matic despite having so many young players at our disposal. The signings made were often safe and popular signings. Due to their nature we ended up massively overspending on these players (that blame is to be shared with other people at board level who also caters for such things). Ultimately we ended up with an overpriced, unbalanced and overrated side, whose poorly coached and poorly lead (tactics wise). Ole inners keep mumbling about patience and the future which is silly considering that we're relying heavily on players who are either at the end of their 20s or the beginning of their 30s (DDG, Maguire, Varane, Pogba, Bruno, Ronaldo, Cavani etc). This squad is built for instant success not success in 3-4 years time.

I don't mind if we keep Ole at United but not as our manager. Many clubs have a jolly ie a loyal staff member who understand the club, who can aid the board on football matters and who can cover a role when someone suddenly leave. Inter had Giuseppe Baresi, Milan had Mauro Tassotti and we could have Ole in the role. So having Ole replacing Sir Bobby wouldn't be that bad especially if that means that he could slot as a temp manager if needed
 
It's not negative to state the obvious that we are winning feck all under Ole. Nor are you being positive by burying your head under the sand regarding his capabilities. As long as we have fans like OP whose expectations are on the floor and are happy for us to continue our perpetual state of transition, we will continue being a circus on and off the pitch.
 
stw2022 said:
Ole outters need to stop being so knee jerk with their long held opinions based on watching us play over the duration of his tenure and remember we won the last game
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Unsure if I detected sarcasm or not, but did you just use the terms “knee jerk” and “long held opinions” in the same sentence?
 
Ixion said:
If he had never played for us, was just some guy that managed Cardiff and Molde and then we gave them a £7.5m a year contract and 100s of millions to spend and after 3 years was looking down the barrel of being in the bottom half of the League after 10 games...I think a lot of the defenders of Ole would have a different tune. His playing days should have no bearing on how he is judged as a manager.
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Exactly! Replace Ole with Roy Hodgson over the last three years, with the same squad, same results and how many fans do you think would be screaming to give him more time?
 
I’m not going to say it’s three years wasted by any means. The nature of how he was made permanent was truly kneejerk as feck but luckily for the board, it hasn’t backfired massively.

He has done okay to decent and has probably overachieved compared to what his CV is, but its starting to look like that 2nd place league finish was his peak and he should have left in the summer with his kudos high… but I think its going to come crashing down this season sadly.

And I don’t think OGS cares that much about a managerial career. Judging by his career choices, I would be hugely surprised if he takes a role that isn’t Molde or the Norway job. He seems content managing his hometown club or maybe his country. We need a manager who fights for his reputation and will do anything to not look bad. OGS has a successful playing career so doesnt need to prove his self worth as a manager, has enough money in the bank to not need manager gigs that badly, seems like he’s living the dream of managing his other favourite club and ‘yay I can be Fergie now… how hard can it be?’
 
Newcastle are relegation fodder this season, but I bet Ole isn’t even on their top 50 list of potential managers.
 
McGrathsipan said:
Wanting to view the world via the good things he's done is just as bad as looking at the negatives.

So let's be objective shall we.

The man has done well in getting things settled behind the scenes. This is true and he should rightly be praised.

Football wise, which is the bread and butter, it's been poor and appears to be getting worse. That's his main job and he's not done nor does he look like doing his main job. Win titles and trophies.

Lose today and the PL is gone but its probably gone anyway by now

So I think he's not the man to take us back to the top so he has to go unless somehow he wins the CL. I don't think the FA cup is enough

Sack him now or at the end of the season is the only question for me. Probably leave him there until the end of the season and only leave him in place if he wins a major title which is highly unlikely

Will always be a legend
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I think your view was certainly true in the immediate aftermath of Oles appointment.

Now though? Not so sure.
 
Garethw said:
Exactly! Replace Ole with Roy Hodgson over the last three years, with the same squad, same results and how many fans do you think would be screaming to give him more time?
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For me the results and squad developments over the last years are enough to warrant Djemba-Djemba to stay in the manager seat for the season if it was him. (Or pick any no-name person that wasn't a player here before. Though they would be unlikely to be given the chance like Ole was.)

Compared to where we have been post Fergie I have the most positive outlook on the future with this squad and setup. For me that means Ole deserves the season to deliver a title challenge or CL run. If we fail completely then it's time to approach a different manager in the summer. But there's nobody available right now that I think would do a better job.

I don't want Conte here, similar to how I never wanted Mou. I don't think Zidane would be able to turn things around here either, he seems a better fit for Spain/Italy/France.

If it was up to me I probably would have given Moyes another season, but he made a lot of wrong choices, starting with removing most of Fergie's remaining backroom staff. Add on to the nosedive in the league I understand why the club chose to be ruthless.
I would have supported LVG for another season, even though I found the football excruciatingly boring. I just thought that would have been better than Mourinho.
 
Cafe in 5 years time

Give Ole time, he's done :
- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.
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Meanwhile Liverpool, Chelsea and City are winning more titles and CL's.

I'm sick of it Robbie, when will it end
 
I think it's the frustration. I will be most happiest guy if Ole would win the PL or CL. I want him to win today.
 
Acquire Me said:
I have been a so called "Ole in" and I support our manager and players. Ole has done a lot of right things to build us up after Moyes, LvG and Mourinho.

He deserves credit for what he has done so far. I still stand behind him and our team. His in charge and I still hope he can find his and our teams way to become what we all know the can be.

I have serious doubts though, he might not have that "last bit" in him to guide us to become great. If we could get someone like Erik ten Hag now, I would take him. No doubt about it.

That said, why all the crazy negativity about him that just not make sense?

- He has built a fantastic team
- He has created good values and got rid of a very toxic environment.
- He got rid of players clearly not making the cut.
- He promoted youth into our first team.
- He started a process that imo has been excellent overall.

He has not been perfect all along, but no one are. He might not be the one in the end that brings glory back. But the man taking over will inherit something really good to work on.

So, why all the negativity on him. Even on him as player and legend. I find that extremely disgraceful.
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Good values?? Do you know what that phrase means?

Lets have a look. (Numbers from Transfermarkt.com)

Maguire €87m - Good value?
Bruno €63m - Very good value! We got what we paid for and a little bit more.
AWB 55m - Good value?
Daniel James - €18M - We sold him with profit so he represent OK value.
Ighalo - €12m loan fee - Good value?

DvdB - €39m - Good value?
Diallo €21m - Early days but so far his impact is close to zero. One cameo against Milan is our only ROI.
Telles -€14m - OK value from my perspective.
Pellistri €8m - Early days but so far zero impact in a United shirt.
Cavani Free transfer - Good value!

Sancho €85m - Very early days but so far this is not good value.
Varane - €40 - Now we talking about really good value.
Ronaldo €15m - So far so good but his arrival comes with on field challenges.
Heaton - Free transfer - OK value!

Renewing contracts - Phil Jones? Juan Mata? Nemanja Matic at least contribute on the pitch.

Contract negotiations - Paul Pogba?? Jesse Lingard??


Highly debatable, probably a little bit of exaggeration to say Ole has created good value. (some would say he has failed in more then 50% of his transfers)
 
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