Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I think most people will find Maradona as the more traditionally aesthetic player.
The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Well beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I think most people will find Maradona as the more traditionally aesthetic player.
Boomers!
I watched a lot of their games, that's why I know they were two of the biggest magicians ever to grace a football pitch.
Henry is a case of an underrated player, not of everyone else being overrated.
Has been in the running for best player in the world on multiple occasions, numerous individual accolades, many team of the year awards and player of the year awards.....
ridiculously talented
His private life has cheapened his reputation. He is constantly in the tabloids in Brazil and it’s never for good reasons. This week it’s for sleeping with a girl from Big Brother and then lying about it.
He gets involved in trashy stories and lowers himself in the public eye.
Obviously, people should be allowed to make their own choices and do their own thing, but players like Ronaldo and Messi don’t go on rants on social media and don’t lower themselves to arguments on Twitter with reality TV stars. Their social media accounts probably aren’t even run by themselves.
When Ronaldo faced certain accusations, he spoke through his lawyer and waited for a resolution. Neymar had his embarrassing conversations posted online and became a laughing stock. He is let down by those around him and he doesn’t protect himself.
That might not be totally his fault, he might be a victim at times, but public image is such a big thing and why certain public figures are held in such high regard.
He is a figure of fun in Brazil and that is sad, but he has contributed to a very messy public image and has no safeguards in place to protect himself.
He isn’t held in as high esteem because his private life is far more visible than his football and his choices, both in and out of the game, have contributed to that.
He gets involved in trashy stories and lowers himself in the public eye.
Obviously, people should be allowed to make their own choices and do their own thing, but players like Ronaldo and Messi don’t go on rants on social media and don’t lower themselves to arguments on Twitter with reality TV stars. Their social media accounts probably aren’t even run by themselves.
When Ronaldo faced certain accusations, he spoke through his lawyer and waited for a resolution. Neymar had his embarrassing conversations posted online and became a laughing stock. He is let down by those around him and he doesn’t protect himself.
That might not be totally his fault, he might be a victim at times, but public image is such a big thing and why certain public figures are held in such high regard.
He is a figure of fun in Brazil and that is sad, but he has contributed to a very messy public image and has no safeguards in place to protect himself.
He isn’t held in as high esteem because his private life is far more visible than his football and his choices, both in and out of the game, have contributed to that.
ridiculously talented
That's awesome. What a shame this is being wasted in France. Should be playing week in week out on the biggest stages. Think it would be the making of him.
ridiculously talented
No doubt about his talent, shame it is being wasted.
Can you imagine what a PL manager would do to his players if they done what the striker there done? Stood still.
I would like to see him in a league that challenges him, he was brilliant at Barca.
hes already made it! There is a slight snobbery about the so-called top 3 leagues and how players must play there. Players like Romario were still the best in the world while playing for PSV in the 90s,
I'm not saying he hasn't made it but I think he's showing zero ambition by remaining in France as opposed to challenging himself like someone like Ronaldo.
Mbabpe has time on his hands but Neymar needs to move.
Romario only spent 2 years at a European giant. He is still a legend.
He lacked ambition himself. Brazilian trait.
ridiculously talented
Di Maria fecked up again as He's always done.
What? The striker actually pressed pretty well, he was left dead on his feet due to a supreme piece of skill. Sometimes players are taken by surprise and can’t react. It happens everywhere from time to time.
Pele too? I mean they can't be any good unless they play in Italy, Spain or England right?
It was a different time then though? It's like comparing apples and oranges. I've not once said these players aren't "any good" either? You seem to be jumping to conclusions.
I think that earmarks a different time. Competitively with the development of the game most players are accredited for playing within those leagues that you have mentioned due to a range of reasons. If Pele was playing in the modern climate I highly doubt he would have spent his career's entirety in Brazil.
Neymar for me has gone backwards, he's worse off now than he was at Barcelona as a performer. There was a period where he did outperform Messi in a few fixtures and it's the competitive environment that will bring the best out of him. He does have a small window of time to transition. Mbappe is exactly the same can we really grasp that he has developed since his time at Monaco and the 2018 world cup ?
The French league is in no way a rubbish domestic prize but when we are talking about the aspirations of the best players they need a higher level to compete at.
Romário coming back to Brazil only strenghtened significantly how idolized he is here, the intimacy that the brazilian has with him and he played in the brazilian giants. He is more idolized than Ronaldo here and many people consider him the greatest striker ever, above even Ronaldo. When you do what he did for PSV and Barcelona, but above all what he did in the 1994 WC and how he gained the love of a whole nation to the ridiculously high level that he did, anything else becomes superfluous and insignificant.
Also, the great brazilian teams from the 90s could still go toe to toe with the best european teams in the Intercontinental Cup (unlike today when the games are men vs. boys), though the gap between Europe and South America had already started to exist in the 90s.
Did the younger Rooney had a bigger impact in the game than the younger Neymar ? If so, can we say Rooney blown it ?
I'd say that given the hype around Rooney between 2004-2006, and how he always played with passion and agression it seemed like he was going to be winning awards.
People talk about Neymar blowing it but that is mainly because of bad transfers choice. He went to Barcelona where he couldn't develop into the main man due to Messi and when he finally made that move to PSG in search of that, the team wasn't competitive enough. Rooney, it can be argued, should still be a Manchester United player if he had just looked after himself better. It's a little bit embarassing to see him playing in MLS and Derby County while Ronaldo has been killing it with Juventus being older than Rooney. Yeah, it is doubtful that Neymar will reach the heights we expected, but Rooney should have done much more...
I'd say that given the hype around Rooney between 2004-2006, and how he always played with passion and agression it seemed like he was going to be winning awards.
People talk about Neymar blowing it but that is mainly because of bad transfers choice. He went to Barcelona where he couldn't develop into the main man due to Messi and when he finally made that move to PSG in search of that, the team wasn't competitive enough. Rooney, it can be argued, should still be a Manchester United player if he had just looked after himself better. It's a little bit embarassing to see him playing in MLS and Derby County while Ronaldo has been killing it with Juventus being older than Rooney. Yeah, it is doubtful that Neymar will reach the heights we expected, but Rooney should have done much more...
Due to the money being paid. Back in those days was there even a big difference in players salaries? I understand they all earned fairly little.
Has Neymar really gone backwards? his performances are always fantastic until February and then he gets injured for the remainder of the season. How are you decidsing he has gone backwards? Is it just because he left Barcleona and you dont like him in France?
I love that he was so enamored with his country. Aguero too wants to return and play in Argentina. Imagine playing in those derbies as a superstar player who conquered the highest level
Yes and no really. I think it's down to motivation. Ronaldo is head and shoulders above any player I know for drive, ambition and longevity. Some could even question that of Messi although he's been playing at the highest level despite remaining at one world class club.
When you look at Rooney could he have done much more? Yes, he could still be playing at the top level, but in his career did he reach the very top? I'd say so. Record England goalscorer, record United goalscorer, captain of club and country and winning every single piece of club silverware possible. He didn't perhaps have the longevity but he played, won and delivered at the top table for a prolonged period. You can't help but forget about Neymar whilst he wastes his peak years in France
He's missed about half of the games since he's gone to Paris because of injuries, that's his main problem. Not lack of talent or motivation.
Yeah, Neymar is actually a strange one because despite what some may think you can clearly see his drive and motivation. He doesn't drop a level against poorer opponents and he is easily wound up even when there is nothing at stake, he is also always good in big games.
I really think that while money played its part in his decision to specifically join PSG, the main reason was that he imagined himself turning a club like PSG into a continental powerhouse instead of being Messi's sidekick.
I think he probably looks back at the last few years as a failure, especially in Europe. Not down to lack of ability but luck, he has been injured most times PSG get to the knock outs and cannot cope without their star player.
The other reason I feel PSG have really failed in Europe is due to the league they play in. They play a 4222 formation in the league but change formations when it comes to the CL. Totally ruins the rythmn when you are smashing teams in one system and having to change for 1 game. This is because they dont get challenged in the league enough.
Regarding the second point. I don't really get why people try to make more complicated than it is, PSG haven't had a great team since 2015-2016, for some reason people on this forum overrate PSG and the players at their disposal, particularly when it comes to depth. Their best team was the one managed by Blanc but the luck of the draw was never on their side with early games against Barcelona or Real Madrid. And their lack of depth means that when they lose a key player his replacement is generally far from the required level, sometimes it's an academy player.
So no the reason PSG "failed" is because they have never been Barcelona or Real Madrid equal, they have never realistically been the favorites unlike what some people seem to think. They rarely went out to weaker teams.
Perhaps Neymar should have moved to europe sooner. Stayed too long in Brazil.
Yeah, at least Rooney spent his peak years winning stuff. Neymar, it can be argued, did win plenty of titles with brazil national team, but other than that 2014-2015 season, his club career is lacking...
Well, so Neymar went to PSG hoping to propel them to a dominant force in Europe. Clearly, if he seen the team isnt good enough, why not just push for a move out.
Yes, I agree they lack depth but to be the best you have to beat the best, rarely do teams go to the final without beating the best. Are you suggesting they can only win it by luck of draw rather than skill?
I really disagree with your point on quality of the team. A team that boasts:
Mbappe, Neymar, Di Maria, Cavani in attack
in 17/18 they had Moura, Verrati, Rabiot, Matuidi, Draxler, Thiago Silva, Marquinos, Dani Alves
These are not your everyday average players.
The young players you mention were Kimpembe, Le Celso, Nkuku who are all not very highly rated.
You see that's problem. The players that you mention do not make a CL favorite, they make a good CL team which PSG is but several teams are stronger than that. And that's without taking into account injuries, which has been a big issue for PSG in particular with Cavani, Neymar and Verratti. Matuidi left the club in 2017, Thiago Silva has declined due to age, Dani Alves was a bang average player also due to age, Draxler is a squad player for any team with ambition and an average player at that level, same thing with Lucas Moura. The young players are exactly that, young and inexperienced they are insignificant when you try to make the point that PSG are supposed to be CL favorites, they are/were all inferior to the starters. Outside of the attackers Marquinhos is the only one consistently performing and he is rarely injured.
For some reason you are overrating them, I'm not suggesting that they are bad or even average but when we are talking about the toughest cup competition in the world, PSG are far from favorites. During that period of time, they were inferior to at least Barcelona, Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern Munich, Man City, Liverpool or Atletico Madrid. And the luck of the draw was rarely on their side with early games against teams like Real Madrid and Barcelona.
How often do favourites win it? Liverpool were not favourites last season to win it. Injuries are part and parcel with all clubs.
Thiago Silva is one year older than Sergio Ramos and 2 years to Gerard Pique.
I understand they didnt have the best team, but a team with Neymar and Mbappe is always going to be up there to compete wouldnt you agree?
I wouldnt agree that the PSG team were inferior to Juve, Bayern, Liverpool or Athletico. Yes if you take out Neymar and Mbappe but you cannot ignore they have two of the most talented footballers on the planet.
I agree with this. PSG has such an overwhelming superiority over it's competition in the league that none of the personal achievements by their players can be compared with those playing in Spain, England and Italy. It's the CL where you can see them compete against teams of similar talent and are yet to go past R16 (with Neymar), frankly pathetic given the investment and supposed talent.
Very talented player but there have been a lot of those over the years; will be remembered as a trouble maker and a "what might have been" type rather then a great footballer.
On Thiago not all players have the same trajectory and most of them decline quickly in their 30s which is what happened to Thiago Silva, he is still a good player but not the world beater that he used to be. As for the rest, they didn't had an healthy Neymar in the KO stages and Cavani was also injured last year. Not only PSG weren't favorites when the season started but they were diminished when the KO stages started. This season should have been a good one for them because they finally improved their depth and balance but the pandemic decided otherwise.
I agree that their squad is completely imbalanced. I suspect they promised Neymar a star studded line up but since the signings of Mbappe and Neymar they could not afford any more big names for a few seasons. That's why we saw them going for the likes of Herrera, Gueye etc.
I also do think that it is not just the names, the lack of quality within the league does play a big part. E.g. how to see a game out.
Like Liverpool / City are used to playing these high pressured games in the PL, so when they are 1, 2 down in the CL they do not panic. Likewise when they are 1/2 up they know how to approach the game.
I feel PSG don't know how to approach big games yet.
Should be spending his best years at a bigger club in a proper league.
No disrespect to PSG but there are multiple players who have wasted their peak years there:
Veratti
Thiago Silva
Cavani
Ibra*
Now Neymar
Hopefully not Mbappe
No disrespect to PSG but there are multiple players who have wasted their peak years there:
Veratti
Thiago Silva
Cavani
Ibra*
Now Neymar
Hopefully not Mbappe
I don't really buy that, City are exactly like PSG in the CL, they fail in the same way with the small difference that they have a deeper team and aren't as diminished with injuries. It's just a matter of player quality in particular when it comes to leadership and mentality, PSG were a very consistent and resilient team with Ibrahimovic, Thiago Motta, Matuidi and Thiago Silva in their prime, they had some depth and quality issues in some areas but they were better than the Neymar-Mbappé version.
What makes it improper, that is insulting and disrespectful?
The ignorance towards Ligue 1 is quite something.
C’mon man, play fair. You know what I mean.
No disrespect intended, I’m just calling it what it is. Absolute Farmers league
Sorry bro.It’s not that bad, but still, these are class players who need to be playing their trade against the best in Europe and not just in the CL.
It kills me to see what they could have done and what they settle for. I said the same about Kane signing that ridiculous renewal at Spurs.
He’s easily the most talented player outside of Messi and Ronaldo, but he’s much more unlikable as a person to the outside world with some of his actions and alleged personality can run people the wrong way.
The only way in my opinion he could of validated the PSG move was by winning the Champions League, but he always seems to be injured or missing when he’s needed the most in recent years.
But footballing wise, he’s phenomenal and id take him on our team in a heartbeat.
The only way in my opinion he could of validated the PSG move was by winning the Champions League, but he always seems to be injured or missing when he’s needed the most in recent years.
But footballing wise, he’s phenomenal and id take him on our team in a heartbeat.
C’mon man, play fair. You know what I mean.
No disrespect intended, I’m just calling it what it is. Absolute Farmers league
It’s not that bad, but still, these are class players who need to be playing their trade against the best in Europe and not just in the CL.
It kills me to see what they could have done and what they settle for. I said the same about Kane signing that ridiculous renewal at Spurs.
Why would you say no disrespect, just to throw insults afterward? Assume your opinion.
Personally, I don't like the concentration of talents that we see today, I think that it's the death of football outside of a super league because the top teams in all leagues are far richer than the rest and have far superior teams in quality and depth. There is no more merits to play for Barcelona in a team that is head and shoulders above the rest of the competition in their league, there is no particular merit to join the current version of Liverpool or the record breaking version of City, or Bayern or Juventus. Your achievements" would be as hollow as if you joined PSG, they don't need you to dominate, they have been doing it without you. So the likes of Kane, Griezmann or the players that will join them in the future would in my opinion be better served to stay in their "smaller" clubs and build their legacy in those clubs, that to me has more value, than the logic that every top player should play in a top club, I want to see top players propel clubs to the top, I want to see smaller clubs elevate the level of a league, I don't want to see the rich inexorably get richer and the poor poorer.
The difference is that in other leagues. E.g Spain and England you will get 3/4 teams challenging. In France as you say there is one team that is far richer than every other club. This is not the case in England and Spain because the top team in England is not richer than the 5th team in England.
Atheltico are quite rich too, if you look at the transfer fee and wages.
So there is a merit playing for Barca as they arent heads and shoulders above the teams, have a look at the league table. In England, you say there is no merit in joining a team based on one season, the next season after is still a challenge. City went from record breakers to 20 points of Liverpool. This shows the level of competition in these countries is alot higher.
PSG are winning leagues by being 10-20 points clear season in season out, that is not happening in Spain and England. There are different teams competing for the title.