The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

Fortitude said:
Was called the natural successor for a reason and the baton, by talent, unquestionably hands straight over to him from Messi/Ronaldo with nobody else active showing anything like that ability. In an alternate timeline, he’d be having his time, or, it’d have drawn to an end having left the mark it should have. It’s sad that it’s turned out as it has, especially so when the production line of that level of talent is non-existent in the here and now.

Don’t know what Endrick and that age group have to offer, but if not them, you’re talking at least a few years waiting on the ones after them for another of this tier. Neymar was taken for granted because of the shadow cast by two game distorting players.
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Fair point. I completely agree... I think Neymar's talent is under-rated. The guy is (hopefully not was...) a brilliant footballer. Astonishing technically, he plays with an imagination that I think only Mbappe, in his own way, can relate to. Neymar is a pure player, cannot be taught. Like R9, Ronaldhino, R Carlos, Romario.. Rivaldo.

His injuries have blighted his career. But look at his stats (for those who need stats...).. a goal-scorer, scores loads and loads and loads of goals. Neymar is brilliant. Brilliant.
 
giorno said:
Brazil's teammates and career choices all that set apart Neymar from Ronaldinho
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I kind of agree even though I think Ronaldinho was more talented on the ball, Neymar had the extra pace and was probably more suited to being an attacker due to his better finishing.

There is little between them though when you actually look into it, both talent wise and how they managed their career.

Moments are so important in football and can change the narrative so much, I think another example I always think to is how little Rui Costa is spoken about or considered as an elite player in comparison to someone like Zidane.

Neymar statistically and stylistically when you look at how he contributes to all phases of play is undoubtedly the closest to Messi all round, but he won’t be remembered as being anywhere near when things are all said and done, shame.
 
TsuWave said:
I've been watching a lot of videos on him for the past three days. This guy might be one of my favorite players ever.

His level of ability is unrivalled in my eyes. I prefer watching him play than I do Messi. Football just comes to him so naturally. Incredible player.
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Ability? Messi is more naturally gifted, Neymar behind only him in this generation.
Watchability? a matter of preference

The small difference between the 2 is that Messi in his prime more likely to go all the way because of better ability in tight spaces and finish it or produce the direct assist without needing a second chance. Messi’s dribbling, peripheral vision, decision making and finishing was better. Neymar did more flashy stuff.

But yea, as in the caption, stats tell you only part of the story. If you go only on eye test, for me, he is second only to Messi as a footballer. But stats will only focus on who scored or assisted, especially in today's game.
Acrobat7 said:
In my opinion, the player with the most potential after Messi in the last 30 years. He's had a very good career, but it could have been so much more. It is a shame that he was injured so often and apparently gave up at some point. I suppose it's understandable when you're a multi-millionaire and don't want any more visits to the doctor and hospital beds.
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Exactly.
Fortitude said:
Was called the natural successor for a reason and the baton, by talent, unquestionably hands straight over to him from Messi/Ronaldo with nobody else active showing anything like that ability. In an alternate timeline, he’d be having his time, or, it’d have drawn to an end having left the mark it should have. It’s sad that it’s turned out as it has, especially so when the production line of that level of talent is non-existent in the here and now.

Don’t know what Endrick and that age group have to offer, but if not them, you’re talking at least a few years waiting on the ones after them for another of this tier. Neymar was taken for granted because of the shadow cast by two game distorting players.
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Without disprespecting Cristiano who is one of the greats, interms of pure talent, he had nothing on Neymar. Cristiano is your typical mordern statistics footballer who made the absolute most of what he had.
Jeffthered said:
Fair point. I completely agree... I think Neymar's talent is under-rated. The guy is (hopefully not was...) a brilliant footballer. Astonishing technically, he plays with an imagination that I think only Mbappe, in his own way, can relate to. Neymar is a pure player, cannot be taught. Like R9, Ronaldhino, R Carlos, Romario.. Rivaldo.

His injuries have blighted his career. But look at his stats (for those who need stats...).. a goal-scorer, scores loads and loads and loads of goals. Neymar is brilliant. Brilliant.
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Very very different footballers.
 
Alpha 1 said:
Ability? Messi is more naturally gifted, Neymar behind only him in this generation.
Watchability? a matter of preference
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I mean, I did say "in my eyes" - and now that I've set that as a disclaimer - Neymar is second to none in terms of natural talent and ability. I've seen him do things on the pitch I don't think Messi is capable of. Messi is an amazing dribbler, but most of it comes down to his incredible close control - most of his runs are "slalom" type runs - whereas Neymar is more the traditional futsal/street football type trickery, which I personally enjoy/find more awe inspiring.
 
Fortitude said:
Don’t know what Endrick and that age group have to offer, but if not them, you’re talking at least a few years waiting on the ones after them for another of this tier. Neymar was taken for granted because of the shadow cast by two game distorting players.
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Endrick may have a better career, but he's not a Maradona-esque player like Neymar; he's a more technical and less athletic version of Mbappé.
 
devaneios said:
Endrick may have a better career, but he's not a Maradona-esque player like Neymar; he's a more technical and less athletic version of Mbappé.
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Endrick gives me Pelé vibes. He could become a very spectacular player with his combination of athleticism, technique and football IQ. That shin feint and some of his bicycle kicks were crazy stuff.
 
I don't think Messi has a better vision than Neymar's; it's just that he's a much more objective player(Neymar is objective too, especially compared to someone like Ronaldinho, but sometimes he deliberately tries to make it looks nicer instead of proceed with the optimal play, a thing that players like Messi or De Bruyne never do). Maybe you could call it better decision making. Also, I think Neymar's passing technique is even better, second only to De Bruyne's.
 
Messi has clearly superior vision and passing technique to Neymar.

Don't kid yourself.
 
Acrobat7 said:
In my opinion, the player with the most potential after Messi in the last 30 years. He's had a very good career, but it could have been so much more. It is a shame that he was injured so often and apparently gave up at some point. I suppose it's understandable when you're a multi-millionaire and don't want any more visits to the doctor and hospital beds.
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R9 had more potential, but I do agree his potential was sky-high.

He's got more talent than Mbappe, but Mbappe's drive will likely see him be remembered as the better player when their careers are over.
 
His career was over the moment he left Barcelona. He essentially retired once he moved to psg. That move finished neymar as a serious player. So yes their is no doubt netmar blew it in terms of having a successful football career. As far as money goes, we'll he was successful at that.
 
devaneios said:
I don't think Messi has a better vision than Neymar's; it's just that he's a much more objective player(Neymar is objective too, especially compared to someone like Ronaldinho, but sometimes he deliberately tries to make it looks nicer instead of proceed with the optimal play, a thing that players like Messi or De Bruyne never do). Maybe you could call it better decision making. Also, I think Neymar's passing technique is even better, second only to De Bruyne's.
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Messi in his prime was better than any version of Neymar at every aspect of the game be it dribbling, passing, vision and finishing. Neymar was more showy. And trust me, I rate Neymar very highly and believe he could have been a true great if it were not for injuries and poor decision (going to PSG).
 
Alpha 1 said:
Messi in his prime was better than any version of Neymar at every aspect of the game be it dribbling, passing, vision and finishing. Neymar was more showy. And trust me, I rate Neymar very highly and believe he could have been a true great if it were not for injuries and poor decision (going to PSG).
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Messi was more direct, He never did anything that was not necessary towards scoring a goal or creating an assist, Neymar might showboat, try the embarrass the defender plus the extra stuffs. Neymar might be the next to Messi but at his best Neymar was less than 50% of Messi. That shows how out of world Messi really was
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
R9 had more potential, but I do agree his potential was sky-high.

He's got more talent than Mbappe, but Mbappe's drive will likely see him be remembered as the better player when their careers are over.
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He slipped my mind. Good catch!
 
Hate how disrespected Cristiano Ronaldo gets all the time. I have always held it against him for leaving United, so I've much preferred Messi over the last nearly 15 years. But it is ridiculous how his talent is constantly underplayed.

Was just watching this video of chances he created for Benzema. The guy is such a ridiculously complete forward. Some of the crosses, passes (both feet), vision, spatial awareness are absolutely of the highest standard. Neymar more talented my arse.

Talent is much more than dribbling.

 
AjaxCunian said:
Hate how disrespected Cristiano Ronaldo gets all the time. I have always held it against him for leaving United, so I've much preferred Messi over the last nearly 15 years. But it is ridiculous how his talent is constantly underplayed.

Was just watching this video of chances he created for Benzema. The guy is such a ridiculously complete forward. Some of the crosses, passes (both feet), vision, spatial awareness are absolutely of the highest standard. Neymar more talented my arse.

Talent is much more than dribbling.

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What a pointless comparison. Just because you say that Neymar had the most potential after Messi doesn't mean you deny someone like Ronaldo all talent. I'm tired of this constant black and white as if everything is binary.
 
AjaxCunian said:
Hate how disrespected Cristiano Ronaldo gets all the time. I have always held it against him for leaving United, so I've much preferred Messi over the last nearly 15 years. But it is ridiculous how his talent is constantly underplayed.

Was just watching this video of chances he created for Benzema. The guy is such a ridiculously complete forward. Some of the crosses, passes (both feet), vision, spatial awareness are absolutely of the highest standard. Neymar more talented my arse.
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Sorry. Almost all of those passes/crosses are fairly routine for the highest level. You exaggerating.

Passing/creating was never his biggest strength. It has always been about goals be it from 40 yards or 1 yard, be it a freekick, a thunderbolt or a tap in.
 
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I know I joke a lot about how some people shouldn't talk about football but holy shit, some people seriously shouldn't talk about football :wenger: :wenger: :wenger:

What the feck have I read in this page...you people need to lay down on the bath salts
 
Alpha 1 said:
Sorry. Almost all of those passes/crosses are fairly routine for the highest level. You exaggerating.

Passing/creating was never his biggest strength. It has always been about goals be it from 40 yards or 1 yard, be it a freekick, a thunderbolt or a tap in.
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His number of assists disagree with you. Big time.
 
Acrobat7 said:
What a pointless comparison. Just because you say that Neymar had the most potential after Messi doesn't mean you deny someone like Ronaldo all talent. I'm tired of this constant black and white as if everything is binary.
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Still ridiculously laughable, Neymar is nowhere close. More two footed and skillful, that's about it.
 
AjaxCunian said:
His number of assists disagree with you. Big time.
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I'm not talking about the number but rather the difficulty/quality of the final pass. Compared to the passes executed by playmakers like Neymar, De Bruyne, Messi, Ronaldinho etc the assists he produces in that video are fairly routine.

Artistry has never been his strength.
 
Jeffthered said:
Fair point. I completely agree... I think Neymar's talent is under-rated. The guy is (hopefully not was...) a brilliant footballer. Astonishing technically, he plays with an imagination that I think only Mbappe, in his own way, can relate to. Neymar is a pure player, cannot be taught. Like R9, Ronaldhino, R Carlos, Romario.. Rivaldo.

His injuries have blighted his career. But look at his stats (for those who need stats...).. a goal-scorer, scores loads and loads and loads of goals. Neymar is brilliant. Brilliant.
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Yeah no. Aside from the fact that they have nothing in common, Neymar is streets ahead of Mbappé in terms of technique and vision.

His money oriented career choices and propension to party hard have ruined his career.
 
Looks very heavy footed now. Such a shame
 
Common to get muscle injuries after so long out.

Thread title needs updating as he's retired pretty much.
 
Samid said:


Injured again before anyone even realised he was back.
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He looks like a 10 year retired pro in some "legends" match.
I never liked him but he was spectacular in his peak. He obviously doesn't care anymore.
 
Ish said:
Basically retired yeah. Pity, really should have been a Balon d'Or winner during his career.
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He absolutely should've at some point.

Wrong era but first and foremost, wrong career choices and not the right mentality.

His bank account will console him at least.
 
That_Bloke said:
He absolutely should've at some point.

Wrong era but first and foremost, wrong career choices and not the right mentality.

His bank account will console him at least.
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Also expectations for him were insane. Being in Brazil for a month in 2014 and seeing first-hand an entire football-mad nation (from little kids to great-grandmothers) putting ridiculously amount of weight on his sholders I still think ended up affecting him too much. Every single (not even joking) commercial had Neymar starring, they ran out of #1 and #0 to print on kits and people genuinely believing he alone would drag the likes of Fred (ugh) to the trophy was mindblowing. Add to that the funeral-like atmosphere around the country when he was injured was frankly bizarre to witness for a foreign tourist.

His antics put him off many football fans, but there's hasn't been anyone as talented as him in terms of street football since. He really was the heir to Ronaldinho and Ronaldo but in typical Brazilian fashion longevity was an issue. I will always have a soft spot for him despite his annoying behaviour.
 
When you see what he did at Santos, at Barcelona, and what he did for Brazil, you can see the level of footballer he was, and that’s without watching him.

He was phenomenal. Signing for PSG really was the worst move he could have made, but being kicked and playing 60+ games a year since he was 17/18 definitely didn’t help.
 
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