Not periods, maybe a game here and there. But I could say the same thing about Neymar and Messi at Barcelona.
The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
Not periods, maybe a game here and there. But I could say the same thing about Neymar and Messi at Barcelona.
Then let me put it in another way - I think Mbappe is the player with more impact, a game changer for his team. Never saw Neymar this way, not at Barca (Messi of course) and not at PSG (Mbappe). I think he is a lot more comparable with Coutinho then with Messi and Ronaldo.
Well, that's not the case and he has nothing to do with Coutinho. The daft thing about this point is that Neymar was Barcelona best attacking player during the knockout stages of their last CL winning campaign, he is the one who dragged Barcelona against PSG and allowed the remontada. And he is the player that makes the bigger impact for PSG.
Ronaldinho most certainly did not win a CL nearly alone, far from it in fact. And he also would never have been the best player in the world if Messi and Cristiano were around
I've seen a lot or Dinho and a lot of Neymar and there's little between them. The only thing that's changed is Messi and Cristiano showed up and changed our perspectives
(Also dinho wasn't as unlucky with injuries and Messi overshadowed him completely for only 60 minutes before getting injured for the rest of the campaign in 06)
No, he's still the 2nd best player in the world
Yes, brilliant footballer but terrible mentality. Some footballers get ruined by drinking, partying or other stuff, with Neymar it's cold greed
Trashed his career and probably his legacy for a dump truckload of cash to go to PSG.
Trashed his career and probably his legacy for a dump truckload of cash to go to PSG.
And his general cunthousery.
But it made sense at the time. If he wanted to get out of Messi's shadow he needed to be a main man somewhere. PSG were threatening/promising a CL winning side and they were the only team in for him. If he had a choice between them and someone else in a "competitive league" to be star man and still chose PSG then it's a fair criticism.
Yes he got a truck load of money but he showed ambition to go and try to be the star player for another club and drive them to an elusive CL win (which he hasn't got yet obviously)
Not getting distracted by agents and entourages.
Comparing Neymar with Messi is pointless.
Messi is head and shoulders above Neymar due to one thing, mentality.
If Neymar had the drive and focus that Messi has then he'd be one of the greats, instead Neymar will be remembered as a quality player who never realised his true potential.
Messi is head and shoulders above Neymar due to one thing, mentality.
If Neymar had the drive and focus that Messi has then he'd be one of the greats, instead Neymar will be remembered as a quality player who never realised his true potential.
Agree with this, in the CL he had more bigger moments than Messi that year, he was incredible.
Why do you talk like he's an old player in the end stages of his career?
It all Depends what he does in the next few years, he's hitting peak years now.
He lacks the pshycal strenght and balance of the best offensive players past and present. Messi, CR7, fat Ronaldo, Henry, Ronaldinho and Rooney all had stronger balance than him. (and that's just on top of my head) Dribbling one on one wise he is great but sustaining pressure from a couple of 6,4 defenders in the PL? Don't think so.
The irony is that he probably had a better chance of winning a Balon d’Or if he stayed at Barca - especially during the period that Madrid won 4 in 5 years, iirc. Barca could have won a couple of UCL more if he had stayed but I guess a combination of money and wanting to get out of Messi’s shadow proved decisive.
He’ll never win a Balon d’Or if that is the definitive measure. Still a world class talent whose record for Brazil strangely usurps his performances at club level. Theres plenty of football to be played for him, but he doesn’t seem to have the intangibles as someone like a Ronaldo or Messi.
Messi's average performance for Barcelona throughout his career was at least 2 out of 10 points better than Neymar's, no point even comparing them. Same goes during Neymar's time there. I think Neymar wouldn't even win it against Suarez during their together time there for Barcelona fans.
What Neymar does in French league is pretty pointless, but he was no way leading either Barcelona or PSG to the titles(except domestic in France, but they would win it without him too) in any way that the likes of Ronaldo or Messi did.
He would have had no chance of winning it, the same way Xavi and Iniesta had none.
He was a great player but 3 things affected him
1 - he's nowhere near Messi/Ronaldo level
2 - he thinks he is, and he doesn't need to work anymore
3 - he bottled the challenge by going to PSG
Mbappe is now best of the rest and needs to get out of France asap before he goes the same route.
1 - he's nowhere near Messi/Ronaldo level
2 - he thinks he is, and he doesn't need to work anymore
3 - he bottled the challenge by going to PSG
Mbappe is now best of the rest and needs to get out of France asap before he goes the same route.
I'm not comparing Messi and Neymar, I'm saying that Messi was the main man but sometimes Neymar would take the initiative, the same way Neymar is PSG's main man and sometimes Mbappé takes the initiative. At no point did I compare Mess and Neymar or put them at the same level over the length of their career, it's not the point of the thread.
Neymar is a much better player than Mbappe at the moment and this is evident in pretty much every game that they have played together. Neymar's recent performances were absolutely magical, his playmaking is almost Messi-esque (although he is currently showing it against weaker opponents).
Of course the move to PSG did hurt him, but what hurt him the most were the 2 serious injuries just before the European play-offs (and not being fully fit for the World Cup). When you play for PSG, you only have the CL to prove your world-class reputation, and he missed his chance to do so for 2 years in a row now. If he'll stay fit, it'll be between him and De Bruyne for the current number 2 spot. Ability-wise he's simply better than Mane or Salah and every other attacker in the world bar Messi, even though he doesn't have the luxury of playing in a perfectly balanced system.
Mbappe is way scarrier then Neymar thats for sure i think its really hard to determine how good Neymar really is as i don't watch PSG at all as i hate everything that club stands for. If he does carry them in the CL i might reconsider but i've not yet seen anything thats even remotely close to the level Messi/CR7 are/have been at. You can't judge anything from the League as they don't even have a decent Dortmund or an anoying Lepzig to disturb them.
Is it possible the 2 are related?
Because he hasn't played over 30 games in a season for a club side since Barca!
The guys a perennial crock it seems. Be surprised if Jones hasn't had more apps!!
It's really says a lot about how the image issues can influence player's evaluation.
Neymar had been seen as the next big thing for years, but never became it because Messi & Ronaldo continued to dominate even in their 30's. People grew tired of him. There are also his looks, his social media, his move to PSG (which could've been seen as a positive for a more likeable player, who would've picked a new challenge of leading them to European success), his constant diving & other off-the-field issues like suing Barcelona and having his club to host an orgy for his father.
Look at Mbappe, who broke through as a carbon copy of Luis Ronaldo (who is adored by literally every football fan), playing for the incredibly likeable Monaco side, an underdog with tons of promising youth players... he also had a great foundation at the international level (even without him France is arguably the most talented side in the world), and he won the World Cup playing absolutely beautifully. He is so liked that his move from Monaco to PSG (a move to a direct competitor and an oil-funded club that is despised by most football fans in the world) barely influenced his image — no one is saying that he had sold his career & talent for money, like they do for Neymar.
Is Mbappe a better player than Neymar at the moment? Absolutely not, Neymar is still a notch above. Is Mbappe better than Neymar was at the same age? That's quite debatable, although I wouldn't strongly argue against it. For example, aged 21 Neymar had 27 goals in 46 appearances for the national team (to Mbappe's 13 in 34), and was probably a more all-rounded player. And yet pretty much every football fan that doesn't watch more than a few PSG games per season (mostly in the CL), is saying that Mbappe is already a better player — and this thread is full of those comments as well, with the only French poster @JPRouve trying to argue the opposite.
I love Mbappe by the way and I'm not trying to downplay him, the boy had an absolutely perfect start of his career and would quite possibly end up as one of the all-time greats by the time he's going to retire, if he'll avoid getting serious injuries.
Neymar had been seen as the next big thing for years, but never became it because Messi & Ronaldo continued to dominate even in their 30's. People grew tired of him. There are also his looks, his social media, his move to PSG (which could've been seen as a positive for a more likeable player, who would've picked a new challenge of leading them to European success), his constant diving & other off-the-field issues like suing Barcelona and having his club to host an orgy for his father.
Look at Mbappe, who broke through as a carbon copy of Luis Ronaldo (who is adored by literally every football fan), playing for the incredibly likeable Monaco side, an underdog with tons of promising youth players... he also had a great foundation at the international level (even without him France is arguably the most talented side in the world), and he won the World Cup playing absolutely beautifully. He is so liked that his move from Monaco to PSG (a move to a direct competitor and an oil-funded club that is despised by most football fans in the world) barely influenced his image — no one is saying that he had sold his career & talent for money, like they do for Neymar.
Is Mbappe a better player than Neymar at the moment? Absolutely not, Neymar is still a notch above. Is Mbappe better than Neymar was at the same age? That's quite debatable, although I wouldn't strongly argue against it. For example, aged 21 Neymar had 27 goals in 46 appearances for the national team (to Mbappe's 13 in 34), and was probably a more all-rounded player. And yet pretty much every football fan that doesn't watch more than a few PSG games per season (mostly in the CL), is saying that Mbappe is already a better player — and this thread is full of those comments as well, with the only French poster @JPRouve trying to argue the opposite.
I love Mbappe by the way and I'm not trying to downplay him, the boy had an absolutely perfect start of his career and would quite possibly end up as one of the all-time greats by the time he's going to retire, if he'll avoid getting serious injuries.
both Pogba and Neymar have been kicking ball every week of their lives since they were fecking kids. I’m pretty sure they care more about football than anybody on these forums.
Maradona and Zola hardly ever played together I may be wrong but I think they had maybe one season where Zola was his under study . Maradona wasn't alone in Naples but he was more so in his national team
Yeah, I guess so. He really needed to win the UCL with PSG to enchanted his reputation, but unfortunately for them he’s been injured at key times the last few years iirc
To be fair, on the footballing map Ligue 1 is irrelevant to the majority of football fans everywhere (except France).
He's never been the second best so he can't "still" be.
Neymar doesn't seem to be the type that will on the top of his game at 32. Messi will still be playing when Neymar is 30.
Yeah, maybe he is. But don't forget that Ronaldinho is nearly 40 now.
Why are you telling me that? I didn't pick Neymar.
Truth be told, I don't like this type of questions because we have no idea about how players are going to develop in the next 12 months or who is going to have a big injury. The only thing I'm convinced is that an unexpected player will be in the conversation in the next 5 years.
4 - he spends way too much time on the ground with theatrics and generally acts like a cnut.
It's a thread about exactly that and you said it's not about comparing him with Ronaldo or Messi but what happens after them. I'm saying that there probably won't be a very good Neymar after Messi.Why are you telling me that? I didn't pick Neymar.
Truth be told, I don't like this type of questions because we have no idea about how players are going to develop in the next 12 months or who is going to have a big injury. The only thing I'm convinced is that an unexpected player will be in the conversation in the next 5 years.
Majority of football fans are casual and don't know enough about the sport
There are people in this thread who have admitted to not watching any games Neymar has played in... Yet are comfortable with rating him.
Mbappe just turned 21, settle down.
It's not just that, that season when Messi was injured he scored like 44 goals and created a boatload of assists. He was owning La Liga. People underrated Neymar terribly because he rubs people the wrong way and he's had injuries that have taken him out of the limelight. For me, he is the second best player in the world, and will remain that as long as he's healthy. I think joining PSG was a huge career risk he took, but I don't see it as a lack of ambition, I see it as actually trying to create history by making one of the bigger clubs now actually legitimate in Europe by winning their first champion's league. His injuries are not a sign of weakness or decline in ability, it's just plain bad luck and the fact that he plays with a style that's going to invite that sort of treatment, without being the iron man a guy like CR7 was (despite his style inviting hard challenges as well).
PSG winning a Champion's league is a much bigger story/impact than adding another to the collection of Real Madrid or Barcelona. Even with him trying to leave this summer, if he somehow gets PSG to stop bottling it in Europe, he will be a legend in Paris for the rest of his life. In Barcelona, even though he was THE guy that brought them back with the remontada, all people talked about was Messi, which is a big reason why he left.
Nice post, I would say that Neymar's absence from prominent games and majors has done him over more than his image, though.
People will take the rough with the smooth if a player is delivering - even grudgingly accepting his brilliance - but when there is no elite game profile, the fallback is on the image. Can we call this the Pogba effect? Or perhaps Neymar is the pioneer given his injuries date further back and he's been 'hated' for a longer time. So then, the Neymar?
I saw a gif of him passing the ball with his butt on Twitter the other day so I’d say he has nothing to worry about.
Blown it is a bit far fetched. He's had a terrific career by any standards. Of course it has no doubt been dampened by moving to France and the injuries since. IMO moving from an elite league to one which is not, isn't a step a top footballer in their prime should be taking willingly (unless for personal reasons etc). Then again, would it have mattered where he was given his injuries? Don't think so.