The myth around Shay Given

Brwned

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Conceded 45 goals in 36 games for City by my reckoning, still conceding over a goal a game despite being at a stronger club than Newcastle.

Throughout his Newcastle career he conceded goal after goal and made great save after great save, which I thought implied he's a great shot stopper but his organisation of the defence was poor. There was a reason that time after time good defenders failed to flourish at Newcastle. Players like Cacapa, Boumsong, Colocinni, Bramble were all talented players before they came and were established at big clubs before they came with the exception of Bramble who was one of the brightest young defenders in the country. That's only a small list of some talented defenders that have been ruined at Newcastle.

People put that down to some mystery around Newcastle that they just ruin defenders. I believe that it's really Shay Given who was the problem.

Boumsong's now getting games at Lyon, Bassong's getting games for Spurs and relishing it, Bramble's excelling for Wigan. Once they moved away from Newcastle, or Shay Given, they've improved.

Then he moved to City and he got his chance to show that it was just because he was at Newcastle that he was conceding goals and it wasn't just a convenient excuse, with some people even regretting us not signing him instead!

He's playing behind undeniably better defenders; Toure while not on top form is still a good defender, Lescott while not worth £24m is still a good defender, Bridge while not good enough for a top club is still a good defender. Yet he's still conceding goals at a poor rate for a supposedly world class goalkeeper.

There's still the excuse that the defence hasn't yet settled yet, but personally I think it's all bollocks. He's a good keeper but that's it. Not good enough for us over a number of years and not good enough to be called world class.

To call him world class is laughable, IMO. Was a year ago, still is now.
 
Well, did you see the goal city conceded against chelsea? There is nothing he can do about lazy adebayor who is a superb goalscorer and I'm sure will score soon
 
Well, did you see the goal city conceded against chelsea? There is nothing he can do about lazy adebayor who is a superb goalscorer and I'm sure will score soon

If Foster did that he'd be criticised for either not getting the ball wide or catching it, it's his own fault for letting it bounce out of his hands right back into the danger area.

Plenty he could of done about it. He tried to catch it, rather than punch it wide. Fair enough it was one of two good decisions. The execution was poor and he didn't hold onto it. Sure he was unlucky Adebayor was right there but if he wasn't Anelka was back in there to pounce.

Communication could've been better too, he could've told Adebayor to push out after the first header, and that's another frequent fault of his.
 
not a strong defense in front of him to be honest.

Not a strong unit in front of him.

Strong individual players though, strong enough to be conceding less than a goal a game no doubt.

It's Given's job to organise them.
 
Bullshit. Top quality keeper one of the most consistent in the PL for years.

He has never had a great defense in front of him, including this one
 
Bullshit. Top quality keeper one of the most consistent in the PL for years.

He has never had a great defense in front of him, including this one

Poor defences concede over a goal a game. This isn't a poor defence.
 
Bridge and Lescott are not good defenders. Average, if not awful in Bridge's case imo. Thought I do agree with you, mind.
 
To be blaming Bramble and Boumsongs form at Newcastle partly on Given, is laughable to be fair.
 
Poor defences concede over a goal a game. This isn't a poor defence.

Yes it is, some of the goals City have conceded have been mostly individual errors. Given has kept them in a lot of games and already won them a lot of points.

If you are looking for overrated or myths about players dont look at Given. Think Lescott, Bridge and Toure
 
myth my fecking arse.......
 
Conceded 45 goals in 36 games for City by my reckoning, still conceding over a goal a game despite being at a stronger club than Newcastle.

Throughout his Newcastle career he conceded goal after goal and made great save after great save, which I thought implied he's a great shot stopper but his organisation of the defence was poor. There was a reason that time after time good defenders failed to flourish at Newcastle. Players like Cacapa, Boumsong, Colocinni, Bramble were all talented players before they came and were established at big clubs before they came with the exception of Bramble who was one of the brightest young defenders in the country. That's only a small list of some talented defenders that have been ruined at Newcastle.

People put that down to some mystery around Newcastle that they just ruin defenders. I believe that it's really Shay Given who was the problem.

Boumsong's now getting games at Lyon, Bassong's getting games for Spurs and relishing it, Bramble's excelling for Wigan. Once they moved away from Newcastle, or Shay Given, they've improved.

Then he moved to City and he got his chance to show that it was just because he was at Newcastle that he was conceding goals and it wasn't just a convenient excuse, with some people even regretting us not signing him instead!

He's playing behind undeniably better defenders; Toure while not on top form is still a good defender, Lescott while not worth £24m is still a good defender, Bridge while not good enough for a top club is still a good defender. Yet he's still conceding goals at a poor rate for a supposedly world class goalkeeper.

There's still the excuse that the defence hasn't yet settled yet, but personally I think it's all bollocks. He's a good keeper but that's it. Not good enough for us over a number of years and not good enough to be called world class.

To call him world class is laughable, IMO. Was a year ago, still is now.


Bassong only moved because he actually played well for the Geordies, he was plucked from them because of his potential.

Boumsong wasn't very good.

Bramble is a one match wonder and then fecks up most of the time. Their recent hammerings does not serve your argument well at all.

You just have to look at his save of Drogbas effort to realise he's an intelligent keeper especially in terms of his positioning.

None of those defenders are amazing, Toure is past his best..Lescott is average, only looked good for Everton because they're a defensive team..playing for an attacking team like Citeh he'll get exposed. Bridge lets not go there, piss poor defensively and whenever he puts on an england shirt I cringe.

Your point on VDS being a better organiser is valid however.
 
To be blaming Bramble and Boumsongs form at Newcastle partly on Given, is laughable to be fair.

The fact they've improved since leaving is a coincidence, then?

Individual mistakes are because of a lack of confidence. A lack of confidence is because of being part of a disorganised defence unit. Being poorly organised is the keeper's fault.

That's the thing, people don't look into what makes a good keeper. They don't realise not everything that they're required to do is what they're directly responsible for. Organising the defence is what he's directly responsible for, but not something you can judge just by watching what he does.

VDS organises the defence well, and inspires confidence. He communicates well and he notices when the defence need a breather so takes immediate control himself by slowing down the play or making himself available for the pass back at all times.

Given doesn't do these things half as well.
 
Command of his defence is still a major flaw with him. He is as said a good keeper but not an exceptional or worldclass one.

gimme a break. How often do you actually watch him then? No, your right it's obvious their defence are all at sea because of shay.......:boring:
 
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The fact they've improved since leaving is a coincidence, then?

Individual mistakes are because of a lack of confidence. A lack of confidence is because of being part of a disorganised defence unit. Being poorly organised is the keeper's fault.

That's the thing, people don't look into what makes a good keeper. They don't realise not everything that they're required to do is what they're directly responsible for. Organising the defence is what he's directly responsible for, but not something you can judge just by watching what he does.

VDS organises the defence well, and inspires confidence. He communicates well and he notices when the defence need a breather so takes immediate control himself by slowing down the play or making himself available for the pass back at all times.

Given doesn't do these things half as well.

Maybe it's the fact they're not playing in a partnership anymore?......

In addition boumsong is in a crapper league and titus is probably learning a lot working under steve bruce who knew a thing or two about defending not to mention he's older now and therefore more experienced.

Why bring this up on stats - did you see the goal? It was a complete fluke and it shouldn't have even have been a corner in the first place...
 
Thats ridiculous

Would you consider Reina is world class?

No. He's better than Given though.

Bassong only moved because he actually played well for the Geordies, he was plucked from them because of his potential.

Boumsong wasn't very good.

Bramble is a one match wonder and then fecks up most of the time. Their recent hammerings does not serve your argument well at all.

You just have to look at his save of Drogbas effort to realise he's an intelligent keeper especially in terms of his positioning.

None of those defenders are amazing, Toure is past his best..Lescott is average, only looked good for Everton because they're a defensive team..playing for an attacking team like Citeh he'll get exposed. Bridge lets not go there, piss poor defensively and whenever he puts on an england shirt I cringe.

Boumsong, Bramble and Bassong have all looked better since they've moved, true or false? Bassong looked like the best of a bad lot, but he's still better. Bramble's not been on the best of form, but he's still played better for Wigan than he did for Newcastle.

Saving a free kick with great reflexes doesn't imply great positioning.

There's a reason they're all internationals, regular or not, they're still not as bad as they've been recently. Given's partly at fault.
 
Poor defences concede over a goal a game. This isn't a poor defence.

I'll call bullshit on that one.

Richards isn't a good defender, Toure looks shot, Lescott has always been no better than middling, and Bridge looks like the player he was when he spent years on Chelsea's bench as understudy to Cashley.

They'd look even worse if they didn't have Barry and De Jong perched in front of them.
 
While I don't really agree with you, I think they are some interesting points you make and could be argued.
 
Boumsong, Bramble and Bassong have all looked better since they've moved, true or false? Bassong looked like the best of a bad lot, but he's still better. Bramble's not been on the best of form, but he's still played better for Wigan than he did for Newcastle.

Saving a free kick with great reflexes doesn't imply great positioning.

There's a reason they're all internationals, regular or not, they're still not as bad as they've been recently. Given's partly at fault.

It does but I wasn't even referring to a set piece. It was the one v one in the first half..

Bassong isn't the best of a bad bunch, he's actually quite talented.

Boumsong and Bramble are donkeys who can produce great displays occasionally.
 
No. He's better than Given though.



Boumsong, Bramble and Bassong have all looked better since they've moved, true or false? Bassong looked like the best of a bad lot, but he's still better. Bramble's not been on the best of form, but he's still played better for Wigan than he did for Newcastle.

Saving a free kick with great reflexes doesn't imply great positioning.

There's a reason they're all internationals, regular or not, they're still not as bad as they've been recently. Given's partly at fault.

what has that got to do with anything? You ever heard of a thing called morale? You've no idea how they fitted into the newcastle squad...

Sometimes moving away from a shit atmosphere is all you need...

Your being quite absurd here.
 
Given is an absolutely brilliant goalkeeper and we should have signed him a long long time ago. We would never have had the goalkeeping problems what we do have.

People should watch him playing for Ireland and then say that he is not commanding. He is commanding, very commanding. Top top keeper.
 
I'm with Brwned. Thought this for a long time. Given is stuck to his line, makes the pitch bigger for defenders and disjoints the whole team. Makes it hard tio stay compact.
 
Given is an absolutely brilliant goalkeeper and we should have signed him a long long time ago. We would never have had the goalkeeping problems what we do have.

People should watch him playing for Ireland and then say that he is not commanding. He is commanding, very commanding. Top top keeper.

I think we are the last team he should play for, waaay too much space in front of him.
 
Maybe it's the fact they're not playing in a partnership anymore?......

In addition boumsong is in a crapper league and titus is probably learning a lot working under steve bruce who knew a thing or two about defending not to mention he's older now and therefore more experienced.

Why bring this up on stats - did you see the goal? It was a complete fluke and it shouldn't have even have been a corner in the first place...

Bramble still looked poor before Boumsong game and Boumsong still looked poor once Bramble left.

Excuses, excuses...

Trust everyone who bigs him up to be Irish because he's a better keeper at that level. International football's very different in every aspect, Casillas for example concedes considerably less goals despite not playing behind considerably better defenders.

There's a reason we've never went in for him despite having goalkeeping problems past and present.
 
Given has been a reliable enough keeper, but never top class.

It was a bit tongue in cheek comment by me, but PIG seems suddenly to have decided that wants to be No. 1...pleasing :)

opinions are like arseholes

Some people talk absolute nonsense at times. The idea that given is actually not a very good goalkeeper and is actually in fact the reason his teams can't defend...is a joke.
 
Given has been a reliable enough keeper, but never top class.

It was a bit tongue in cheek comment by me, but PIG seems suddenly to have decided that wants to be No. 1...pleasing :)

Givens never been top 5 keeper for me, but I do believe Brwneds going too far with his criticism, absurd.. his performances for Ireland demonstrate that if he plays behind a solid unit with alot of focus, he can be excellent.

Pleased with PIG's recent form:D, just needs to learn how to kick which was Fosters downfall.
 
Given is an absolutely brilliant goalkeeper and we should have signed him a long long time ago. We would never have had the goalkeeping problems what we do have.

People should watch him playing for Ireland and then say that he is not commanding. He is commanding, very commanding. Top top keeper.

Not sold on that sentiment. He's no better than Howard IMO. Certainly not better than Cech, VDS, Reina or Friedel. He's prone to howlers and is a great shot stopper.

While I believe this the timing of this thread is suspicious, ok, ridiculous, he is a quality keeper but not United class IMO.
 
Bramble still looked poor before Boumsong game and Boumsong still looked poor once Bramble left.

Excuses, excuses...

Trust everyone who bigs him up to be Irish because he's a better keeper at that level. International football's very different in every aspect, Casillas for example concedes considerably less goals despite not playing behind considerably better defenders.

There's a reason we've never went in for him despite having goalkeeping problems past and present.

what excuses? why bring it up now? Did you even see the goal? You bring up stats...city have bought half a new team that are still trying to gell...

They're not even a top four side........

I'm half English and know he's quality. You're being absurd here. Where are the newcastle fans, the City fans who agree with you?....